Thailand beach murders: Police defend bizarre public 'reconstruction' of slayings by suspects

[ScotBkk]

"IF" he wasn't tested it was because he was not even on the island. You folks who want to make up conspiracy theories were the ones who originally said he fled the island after the murder but the facts turned out he left the island week(s) before the murder. Where there immigrant workers in Bangkok being tested who were not on the island when this happened? But for some strange reason you think a kid from a rich family should be. I also saw no news reports saying he was not tested after police tracked him down and interviewed and verified he wasn't on the island.

Long John Silver,put off your ugly brown glasses.

So who said he was not on the island ? His father or the adobe shop fake security photos ?

Also there was a photo on fb where you can see this guy on sep 17th near Chumpon with a tire change

of his white red numbered benz.So weeks,huh ?

Don´t know how much you get paid for

but the headmaster just should change his supporter.

You are anoying all day/all night long.

John have you had a look at the disturbing heart wrenching photos's. If not I suggest you do.

Also did you wonder why the real suspect arrived at first light, traipsing over the crime scene,

And, what was he doing taking a front seat at the re enactment in earshot of the suspect. Get back to us after you have an answer.

DNA from the semen originally collected from the crime scene which was also sent to Singapore matches with the suspects in custody. Suspects caught on video. Suspects seen at crime scene. Suspects admitted to crime. Suspects reenacted crime. Suspects friend confirms he left them there before they killed the couple and raped the women. But yea, that certainly doesn't trump who was at the crime scene after the facts or people's need to believe it had to be a rich Thai kid ... because he is rich and Thai.

Seems to me your in the know my learned friend - PROVE IT !!!

[ScotBkk]

Sadly this will fade from view in Thailand very soon as it looks like Elvis is about to leave the building - if he has not done so already. As for tourism, that will drop off a cliff if they ban alcohol sales for 999 days as is rumored.

Banning alcohol will NEVER happen, as those that have paid to help make this go away,, will NEVER allow it,,,,, WAY too much $$ involved,,,,,

i AGREE. The powers that be were not even successful in banning adverse labels on the bottles recently so how the heck would they manage to get alcohol banned. All hearsay' same as the trumped up evidence on these Burmese kids ..

[ScotBkk]

I have not closely followed the details of this case. It does make reasonable sense to me that a couple of poorly paid immigrant workers -- who maybe have gone without sex for weeks or months or more -- could be on the beach at 4 AM drunk and/or doing drugs and could be sent into a frenzy when they realize two farangs are having sex on the beach close to them with the resultant outcome. It does not make much sense to me that a wealthy Thai scion of the local bigwigs who can get laid any time he wants would have a similar reaction if he stumbles upon the same couple under the same circumstances.

... unless there was some scenario that the girl had been propositioned earlier by a wealthy Thai and refused with the resultant outcome but I don't think applies.

Agree -

The headmans son is young and presentable and a bar owner, amongst many other business interests, and has been around foreigners all his life ... I can therefore assume he is often approached by tourist girls fixing on 'hooking up ' ...and spending her life on Paradise Island forever .

And some claim that , yes , he was so used to that , he was so used to getting what he wanted that when he was rejected that night, that he stalked and killed this couple... an entitled spoiled boy running amok again.

Well if he was indeed that type , then Im yet to read any claims by any other woman of any nationality , that they have had a near miss or faced an attack from him. There has been plenty of time for some girl to seek her 5 minutes of fame on the media so far ...

And any claim that he alone acted out this crime , still has to explain the TWO semen samples found within the female victim...

Ok , ok , I hear it already ..." the boy brought an accomplice with him!"

So who is this accomplice?

Who is this second murderer ?

"Oh the Police made up the story that there were two semen samples!"

BS... the cops were as surprised as we were when forensics announced this.

They had the naked male corpse , they had the naked female corpse . And they had a semen sample they thought was the dead males. They initially thought they just needed to find a single killer. The Thai plod arent simply inventive enough to pre-muddy the waters when the case looked so simple at first.

And because they did think the semen was from the male victim , they sent TWO samples of the semen to TWO different locations - Bangkok , and SINGAPORE.

Now any conspiracy theorist can tell me that the Police somehow 'switched' the samples in Bangkok and I may well listen , but I believe nigh on impossible anyway , but there is no way Im going to believe that they switched the samples sent to Singapore...

If the Thai Police have not SENT new DNA from the suspects to Singapore to see if there is a match , then you can bet that British forensic investigators are doing so ( themselves ) now.

And how do you switch samples anyway ?

The semen went first. Its on the record in TWO countries BEFORE the accused were apprehended .

And the accused can produce more any time !

I also feel compelled to refute all these experts on Thai 'face' ...even more so on 'South Thai Face' as some purport to know .

Firstly , ANY Thai can lose face , its not the domain of the privileged - as a German bar owner on Samui recently found out when he abused some Thai unemployed kids for sitting on his Harley.

Secondly , Thais usually react IMMEDIATELY to a loss of face as an emotional reaction to what they perceive as a "slight" AND they do it in front of their peers , because its their peers who register their loss of face in the first place. And they perceive their peers as being willing participants in its return. You cant lose face if your peer group doesnt perceive you have to have lost it!

Thus not every disagreement results in a loss of face ... Thais have disagreements every day and dont kill each other. Every one of us knows that there is way less blood shed on Soi Cowboy or Bangla road than would happen on a similiar street in our own countries.

People carp on here on TV about Thais always wanting to have an army behind them when they fight ....so where is this army , or even 'group' when it comes to these victims on Koh Tao?

If there was any REAL trouble at the bar , we would have read about it from independent farang witnesses.

We havent.

Its also my observations that the 'influential' Thai spoiled brat carries a gun. Since hes influential , the Thai Police dont stop him from doing so. He has a confrontation , he pulls the gun or knife , he tells the opponent to back down , they do - face restored.

But lets say this boy doesnt do that , lets say he has a confrontation with the Brits , and despite all his influence ( and face ) he lets it go ... Beyond any good sense , the Brits 'win' ( somehow ) and head off to the beach for a bonk ... ( is that what you'd do if you had been threatened by Thais on a little island ?)

Our TV experts now conclude that our rich boy goes looking for them. He doesnt bring a posse ( as these TV experts say Thais ALWAYS do ) or a knife or even a gun? He doesnt consider that all the money his family makes from tourism ( 'Money Number One ' after all ) may be lost from what he does next?

Instead hes supposed to have found a hoe somewhere , found the couple who slighted him , bashed them to death , inseminated the girl twice , then high tailed it to Bangkok?

Sorry I dont buy it.

I'd very much like the recipient of so much speculation to hand over a swab - jesus how hard could it be for any investigator to 'acquire' one tomorrow ... to really prove his innocence or guilt TO US.

But right now , investigators only need a sample of the semen and a DNA sample from the accused prove all the speculation wrong.

Or right.

Is it too much to ask that these samples ; one of each of the semen, one of each from the accused , one or many from the purported murder weapon , are handed over to Scotland Yard ???

Is it really that hard to do this and stop all this speculation and out and out racism emanating from non-Thais gobs?

Your a let down to us real farangs may God have mercy on your soul ...

[noikrit]

In the Video it looks like the BIBs are telling the suspects what they did ......

[nitehawk56]

Ref: title of this Thread "

Thailand beach murders: Police defend bizarre public 'reconstruction' of slayings by suspects

Why are they having to do this ? Because these 2 Burmese men don't have a clue what happened and they had to be coach sad sad sad

[Strangebrew]

Tourism on Koh tao will drop so low they will beg for people to come. Tat will lose face and a stranger will come to island to serve justice. I just know if this happened to my child I would either Take care of person Whom I believe killed my child or hire some one to do it. But that is me can't say for the parents of those murdered. Thai's have to understand Farangs hate it when they are lied to. Then when they show that there more worried about tourism than solving the case It tick's them off. Remember Thailand A lot of retired people here are war veteran's You don't want to piss any of them off with your media circus. I suggest you at least let outside DNA testing by the UK to support your claims of guilty parties. That way you get big face and pat on back and mega boost in tourism if you have right people. Otherwise doubt on your finding will destroy tourism in Thailand for years to come.

[shaurene]

Please, can a real journalist look into a few basic questions and publish in a major newspaper?

1. Is it true that the victim's phone was handed over to police by her friend the day after the murder? Is this is same phone the police claim was found behind the room belonging to the suspects?

2. Since the suspects worked at the very same bar that the victims were at that night, and since they didn't flee, how is it possible that the initial blanket DNA tests did not find a match?!?

3. Is it true that relatives of prominent families on the island were exempted from giving DNA? If so, why? What law requires poor people to give DNA, but excuses rich people.

I know there are many, many more unanswered questions, but these stand out for me.

I would happily donate to a legal fund for defense for these guys. Perhaps an NGO can set that up here?

I agree with all you say, bloody farce the whole thing. They were told and under pressure to solve it what ever way they wanted.

The leaders of the major countries would be following this and most of them must be thinking also, they should put pressure onThailandfor real justice in this case.

I would also put to a fund but this is Thailand, would the money really go to their help.

[pjsmit]

Myanmar news:

"The arrest of two Myanmar migrant workers for the murder of two British tourists in Thailand's Koh Toh has sparked criticisms, claiming flaws in the arrest.

According to the comments posted at the Bangkok Post website, both local and foreign people including the Thai people do not believe the two men were the real culprits after the Thai police charged them with alleged rape and murder on October 3."

(...)

"However, the police earlier announced that the DNA testing did not match with the samples found on the British lady. Then, the police announced that the two Myanmar workers admitted to the murder and abruptly announced that the DNA samples from the two men matched the DNA samples found on Witheridge's body."

(...)

"Win confessed that he attacked the British tourists with the plan to rape the woman after he saw them having sex. However, his confession contradicts the Thai police's earlier announcement on not finding evidence that the tourists were walking on the beach together and had stopped near the guesthouse to have sex. Moreover, the Thai police have announced earlier that no evidence of Miller's DNA was found on Witheridge's body."

(...)

"A Myanmar lawyer representing the two Myanmar workers told BBC that the Thai police claimed to have found the mobile phone of the dead woman in the men's living quarters even though there are evidences of the mobile phone being submitted to the police station by her friend a day after the murder took place."

(...)

"A delegation from the Myanmar embassy will meet with the suspects today after having doubts on the police's announcement that Myanmar migrant workers committed the murder.

A delegation from the Myanmar embassy consisting of a consular officer from the Myanmar embassy, two lawyers from the Thai Lawyer Council, and Thai-based Myanmar workers organisations will try to travel from Surat Thani Province to the prison where the two suspects are detained to hold a direct meeting with them, according to Kyaw Thaung."

(...)

"Both the Thais and the foreigners don't believe the Myanmar men killed them. I saw satirical cartoons in Thai newspapers saying the real culprit has been set free."

(...)

Looks like there is a shimmer of light at the horizon for these poor guys!

[Mackie]

Nobody ever said Thailand cannot do real DNA testing. There are numerous types of DNA testing and they sent the original samples to Singapore for more advanced testing to find about more about the person they were looking for.

Singapore is closer and regardless if FBI has an office here or not, they don;t have a DNA lab here and obviously the Thais discovered Singapore could provide the same testing they wanted. This would be the most logical answer but could be many they chose Singapore over the US.

It was not 24 hours since they took their DNA but about 24 hours since they announced their confession.

Because this is Thailand and not the US or UK and they don't have to nor is it remotely the norm for one country to have another country step into a criminal case to verify evidence because internet whiners and conspiracy theorists are up in arms because who they wanted to be to blame (a rich Thai) was not.

The original DNA collected from the crimes scene is on file in numerous places including Singapore. The two suspects caught on video, seen around the time and scene and who have admitted their crime and whose DNA has been matched will still have their DNA match even if they die and should they die and disappear their family DNA will also be available should a lawyer, NGO or anyone else wish to pursue they are innocent.

I understand all of that under normal circumstances. However Thai police totally messed up this particular case. There are so many things they've done wrong. Some of their actions are/were completely illegal. No one has any confidence in Thai police. Because of their incompetence the independent investigation is required to make absolutely sure Thai police got the right people. For the sake of everyone involved. Mainly aggrieved British families. One thing for sure, RTP has managed to utterly embarrass themselves in this particular case. The vast majority of Thais doesn't believe a word they say. And they love their country.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Mackie

[boomerangutang]

You're full of misconceptions. The son of the Headman was very likely on the island when the murders took place, because when the investigation started, the Headman told police that his son left the island the morning after the crime. The Headman retracted that statement later, when it became clear it was incriminating. We had an entire thread on ThaiVisa talking about the son's alibi - and the supporting photos were shot to pieces as 4th quality retouched. Some of the commentators who said the photos were ridiculously bogus were photo/camera experts.

John goes on to say: "for some strange reason you think a kid from a rich family should be (DNA tested)"

Boomerangutang responds: YES. ABSOLUTELY. particularly when he's a prime suspect, or should be, except now Thai officialdom has its scapegoats, so there will be no further investigation. Not only should the rich kid and his cop friends and his uncle 'Mon' be DNA tested, but the testing should be done by independent non-Thai technicians. Thai officials cannot be trusted to handle DNA. They've lost any bit of credence and objectivity they may have ever had.

I thought to call a Thai attorney friend of mine, to see if he'll represent the defendants, but I like the guy too much to see him killed - which is what may happen to any attorney who talks to the Burmese. This is Thailand, stranger things have happened.

If you want to choose to believe what is contradictory to what you want to believe then really no sense debating ... the headsman's kid was not on the island and was in Bangkok. This has already been established by numerous evidence but let the internet "experts" have their way with photos as they have done with the phone which again was based on nonsense.

from another of JohnThailandJohn recent quotes: "DNA from the semen originally collected from the crime scene which was also sent to Singapore matches with the suspects in custody. Suspects caught on video. Suspects seen at crime scene. Suspects admitted to crime. Suspects reenacted crime. Suspects friend confirms he left them there before they killed the couple and raped the women. But yea, that certainly doesn't trump who was at the crime scene after the facts or people's need to believe it had to be a rich Thai kid ... because he is rich and Thai. "

Sorry to personalize this, but come on John, tell the truth, are you connected to the Headman's son or Thai authorities? You're essentially the only one of hundreds on this forum who believes the crap about the son's threadbare alibi. If you're objectively seeking truth, look closely at the so-called alibi and see how utterly flimsy it is.

[HaleySabai]

John have you had a look at the disturbing heart wrenching photos's. If not I suggest you do.

Also did you wonder why the real suspect arrived at first light, traipsing over the crime scene,

And, what was he doing taking a front seat at the re enactment in earshot of the suspect. Get back to us after you have an answer.

..... he is likely out walking around on the beach with a pie plate on his head.....

[jomcondo]

That's right strangebrew, there are whole battalions of ex SAS & Navy seals sitting around on barstools in pattaya,

[boomerangutang]

I understand all of that under normal circumstances. However Thai police totally messed up this particular case. There are so many things they've done wrong. Some of their actions are/were completely illegal. No one has any confidence in Thai police. Because of their incompetence the independent investigation is required to make absolutely sure Thai police got the right people. For the sake of everyone involved. Mainly aggrieved British families. One thing for sure, RTP has managed to utterly embarrass themselves in this particular case. The vast majority of Thais doesn't believe a word they say. And they love their country.

It's not only incompetence. It's combined with intentional skewing of or disregarding evidence along with planting evidence on the scapegoats. It's got FRAME-UP written all over it. There are crime scene clues the cops didn't see or disregarded. One of many examples: puncture wounds in the male's head and neck caused by a leftie using a punch blade. Saying the cops have been incompetent is too nice. They've been inept and have intentionally skewed the crime scene and evidence in order to frame innocents.

Edited October 5, 2014 by boomerangutang

[ScotBkk]

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Never mind boiling water - this whole farcical debacle makes my blood boil.

There is SO much evidence to suggest that these 2 migrant workers are NOT the killers, that I'm surprised that some international agency hasn't stepped in to set this to rights.

However - the DNA samples will have been tampered with by now - there's probably no real way of getting things verified properly.

Oh God in heaven above - please bring justice to this case - expose the truth and in the process, please help Thailand to WAKE THE HECK UP!!!!!!!!!!

If you commit a crime, you must pay the consequences. You may think you can escape scot-free right now - but believe you me, it will always come around in the end.

But hey - the Thai's know that, right?

They're Buddhist, so they must. They live by the laws of Karma, which they believe in stoically, right?

Someone? Anyone? Please tell me I'm right??!

II am sorry but I don't see any evidence you presented to show they are as innocent as you say.

What is not in doubt, as all the accused had admitted before the boiling water, was that they were down by the beach during the approximate time of death and all admitted to seeing the victims together before there death. That is highly significant as it places them as the last ones to see them alive, other than the murderer(s) if it wasn't them.

Using boiling water, or for that matter any form of torture, to obtain a confession no doubt can lead to confessions of innocent people. This is why, in the West, this confession would not be allowed in a court of law as evidence. But having said that, using boiling water on a suspect, who later confesses to a crime, does not make him automatically innocent either, and as you suggest.

The overwhelming DNA Evidence, secured from Hanna from locations that would be very difficult to contaminate, cigarette butts that have been identified, located at the log but also at the crime scene, eyewitness accounts placing the suspects near the crime scene at or near the time of deaths, and there own initial confession that they were their during this time, is not fabricated evidence done by the police.

Now place 3 suspects into 3 different rooms, over several hours, and without time to create a fabricated story together, and they all come up with identical stories of how this crime was committed, and there part in the crime, and that in itself is pretty strong evidence they did it. So My Friend I tend to disagree with you. In my book they are guilty as sin. No matter how there confessions were obtained.

Great interpretation.

You should be highly commended within YOUR own superficial Circles, which were more predominant in medieval times (until now) and at the forefront as noxious accusers in any Spanish Inquisition trials and have the same modus operandi on how you’d determine guilt ...... My somewhat lost friend, you don't have a clue and You too need to be forgiven for your sins.

AMAZING how you can Condemn and find guilty these Burmese kids at the drop of a hat.

[ScotBkk]

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How is anyone expected to believe that these two small, slightly built men brutally murdered two people? They 'confessed' that they murdered David then raped and murdered Hannah. It would have taken the two of them at least to overpower David, so who was restraining Hannah during that time?

This is my feeling about what happened. Hannah had an altercation with a Thai local in a bar that night. He lost face and was furious. He got a group together to exact revenge. Meanwhile, three Burmese migrant labourers were sitting on a tree trunk on the beach, playing guitar and drinking. One of them went home, leaving the other two. Sean McAnna had been asleep that night, but went out later on to try and find David. Through trying to find David, he met up with Hannah and ended up walking her back to her accommodation. On the way, at the beach, Hannah was set upon by the Thai man and his friends. Sean was minimally hurt but managed to run. David happened to be walking back shortly afterwards. Rather than running, he tried to help Hannah and was beaten. The two Burmese men came over to see the commotion and were spotted by the gang. The Thai who had lost face and his accomplices took it in turns to rape Hannah, but used condoms, aware that they didn't want to leave DNA. They then coerced/forced the Burmese men to rape her too, knowing that it would be their DNA that would be found. One of the condoms was accidentally left at the scene.

Very soon the next day, everyone on the island knew who had been responsible. The police spoke to the relevant families and were paid off. They then knew there were some Burmese men sitting on the beach that night because the 'witnesses' to this were the perpetrators of the crime themselves. They were also informed that if they caught these men they could pin the whole crime on them because of the DNA. So this was an easy solution that suited everyone.

3/4 of that is believable. The Burmese bit too far fetched for me. The theory minus that element though could add up. I have wondered more and more of late as to what Sean's role in all this was , and have wondered if if he could have been involved in some way - those injuries look very similar to David's. Might explain why he won't talk....shame??

In saying that, I think as a Brit the shame would eventually be overcome by his sense of doing the right thing once home and telling all.

I actually do think the DNA in Hannah matches up with these two guys, so I can only think that it happened as above or, even more macabre, the two Burmese came across Hannah after the crime and left DNA then. When Sean said he knew 'David was trying to protect' Hannah in his initial interview, I think he knew a lot more than he was letting on. I think he would have been too scared to speak the truth, and being a known witness to the crime he was set upon on the evening that all the subsequent drama ensued. He was rightly scared for his own life after knowing what these guys were capable of. Now he's out of Thailand, I wish he would speak up.

So your now adding more ammo to dishonour these poor wretched Burmese guys suggesting they're Necrophiliacs ???? Sick mate ..

[ScotBkk]

I suspect ...

Early on that an official with knowledge of a blonde hair found at the scene decided to use this to make an idiotic comment about Thai people not being capable of committing such a crime.

This upset many people just because of the sheer ignorance of the claim but really upset those Farang who dislike Thais as a whole because they feel inferior here. Then add the inferiority and jealousy they feel toward rich and powerful Thais and they decided for their own self-esteem needs this needed to be a rich Thai who committed the crime despite any actual evidence to suggest this to be the case.

Now it turns out not to be a Thai but rather some migrant workers and they just cannot accept it. Clearly some of how now come to terms with this as the hours pass but some just refuse to accept this and are finding wild conspiracy conspiracy theories based on inaccurate or unknown info or simply using far fetched or unfounded reasoning to discount not just the DNA evidence but the overwhelming evidence against these two ... not to mention the lack of any reasonable suspicion to believe it was a rich Thai, let alone one with a double penis that ejaculates two types of DNA.

Pray tell me. Will You eat your words if they're found NOT GUILTY once they have International intervention or will you still retain your biased bigoted views ?

[JohnThailandJohn]

I suspect ...

Early on that an official with knowledge of a blonde hair found at the scene decided to use this to make an idiotic comment about Thai people not being capable of committing such a crime.

This upset many people just because of the sheer ignorance of the claim but really upset those Farang who dislike Thais as a whole because they feel inferior here. Then add the inferiority and jealousy they feel toward rich and powerful Thais and they decided for their own self-esteem needs this needed to be a rich Thai who committed the crime despite any actual evidence to suggest this to be the case.

Now it turns out not to be a Thai but rather some migrant workers and they just cannot accept it. Clearly some of how now come to terms with this as the hours pass but some just refuse to accept this and are finding wild conspiracy conspiracy theories based on inaccurate or unknown info or simply using far fetched or unfounded reasoning to discount not just the DNA evidence but the overwhelming evidence against these two ... not to mention the lack of any reasonable suspicion to believe it was a rich Thai, let alone one with a double penis that ejaculates two types of DNA.

Pray tell me. Will You eat your words if they're found NOT GUILTY once they have International intervention or will you still retain your biased bigoted views ?

For sure I would but highly unlikely that will happen. The question is will you when they are convicted or will you just blame a bad system? And for the record I have no bigoted views.

[ScotBkk]

all you can comment is Thailand is bad....how pathetic....nowhere is perfect but Thailand is better than your equally corrupt countries and has lots more class and beauty

My country they have just legalized corruption on grand scales so we are not corrupted. People in general are good all over but I have a special love for the general Thai and culture of trying to be happy. So many have such crappy lives and although they are aware life is tough, they spend their time trying to see the good and enjoying life, not whining.

Yes such a beautiful country so full of beauty and chaos too and a place that has yet to become a police state and where people have to be responsible for themselves instead of government forcing what they say is right and safe for them. It has changed a losing this but still better than my home country in this respect.

I just couldn;t imagine moving to a country that I felt a constant need to complain about. Again, letting some Thai rub off on you is a good thing in the sense of simply trying to see good and enjoy life despite its hardships and imperfections.

[minikev]

I have not closely followed the details of this case. It does make reasonable sense to me that a couple of poorly paid immigrant workers -- who maybe have gone without sex for weeks or months or more -- could be on the beach at 4 AM drunk and/or doing drugs and could be sent into a frenzy when they realize two farangs are having sex on the beach close to them with the resultant outcome. It does not make much sense to me that a wealthy Thai scion of the local bigwigs who can get laid any time he wants would have a similar reaction if he stumbles upon the same couple under the same circumstances.

You're completing missing the point. Have you ever seen a Thai man's reaction to a little loss of face? Especially a wealthy and self entitled Thai man? Especially in the South.

Look at the horrific pictures. It wasn't about sex. It was about horrible emotions of insane violence.

As I said I am not aware that scenario has been established.

There is of course no proof that that was established. There is however 2 minutes of cctv footage missing. There were reports of an altercation with David and another inside a bar but they were, quickly silenced. There is also an sms from Hannah's friend which states Hannah left 2 hours before David. In her friends words "Where did she go".

I think we must see DNA match from an outside recognized establishment from DNA they collect from the suspects and DNA taken from Hannah after she arrived in England.

It could be a MISTAKE from rushing through the results under pressure. If so there are crazed murderers running free knowing they got away with it, if so there are innocent men facing the death penalty or life in a hell hole.

Edited October 5, 2014 by metisdead
Reply repaired, Please learn to make your post outside the quote box.

[Ve37]

Todays re-enactment was greeted with dismay around the world.

A tourist was chosen to play 24-year-old David while a female TV journalist took the role of Hannah.

Maybe it was actually the first soap rewritten by the good general, returning happiness to the Thai people

Beautifully put. For those who didn't get it:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/09/26/351771604/thai-leader-threatens-new-takeover-the-tv-soaps

[dean008]

"Wearing flak jackets and motorcycle helmets to protect them from possible attack"

I wonder if this was the real reason, or if perhaps it was to hide any evidence of bruising

[FangFerang]

The UK Daily has been blacked out for raising points the Thai authority cannot contradict in regards to the Koh Tao murders. Welcome to North Korea.

[JenniferSG]

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I have not closely followed the details of this case. It does make reasonable sense to me that a couple of poorly paid immigrant workers -- who maybe have gone without sex for weeks or months or more -- could be on the beach at 4 AM drunk and/or doing drugs and could be sent into a frenzy when they realize two farangs are having sex on the beach close to them with the resultant outcome. It does not make much sense to me that a wealthy Thai scion of the local bigwigs who can get laid any time he wants would have a similar reaction if he stumbles upon the same couple under the same circumstances.

You're completing missing the point. Have you ever seen a Thai man's reaction to a little loss of face? Especially a wealthy and self entitled Thai man? Especially in the South.

Look at the horrific pictures. It wasn't about sex. It was about horrible emotions of insane violence.

Yes, I agree. Look at the pics. of the woman...The attack was of intense hate/aggression. If she was propositioned earlier and she refused (maybe she added more to her negative response) the Thai fellow (mafia?) could of been overly incensed That could of sparked the whole event for the deranged fellow to stalk her and then seeing buddy (Brit) trying to do his thing; rage ensued. Speculation...but how this case was apparently solved doesn't make much sense...this should be the case to once and for all show the corruption and ineptitude of the Thai authorities I believe people should boycott visiting the island until the case is reopened and done properly and honestly.

I agree. I wish to GOD I hadn't looked at those crime scene photos. I thought, "I've seen a dead body, this isn't going to be traumatic" but Jesus wept whoever attacked Hannah did so with incredible rage. The repeated force it would take to do that to her head...ugh. Horrible. Clearly a crime of hate and rage.

[exalll]

I come late to this thread ... 17 pages in, so I apologize for probably making the same point that others have made. But according to the police theory, the sequence of events was:

1. They killed David

2. They raped Hannah, while pausing for a smoke

3. They killed Hannah

So during the killing of David and during the rapes, Hannah was silent? As I understand it, nowhere is very far from anywhere on Koh Tao, but (as far as I have read) there have been no witnesses who reported hearing screams.

Seems dubious to me!

[phuketandsee]

Jut about sums it up - "we were over here" "No, you were over there"

[BangkokHank]

The Thais think that their reputation would be damaged if it turns out that these murders were committed by Thais. What they don't realize is that their reputation is being damaged infinitely more by the way they are trying to prove that the crime wasn't committed by a Thai. The world in general - and tourists in particular - don't care about the nationality of the murderer. They just care that the real murderer is caught. Framing innocent non-Thais just to close the case will do nothing to restore Thailand's reputation as a safe destination for tourists. In fact it will have the opposite effect.

[JenniferSG]

I come late to this thread ... 17 pages in, so I apologize for probably making the same point that others have made. But according to the police theory, the sequence of events was:

1. They killed David

2. They raped Hannah, while pausing for a smoke

3. They killed Hannah

So during the killing of David and during the rapes, Hannah was silent? As I understand it, nowhere is very far from anywhere on Koh Tao, but (as far as I have read) there have been no witnesses who reported hearing screams.

Seems dubious to me!

Have you seen the crime scene photos? It's likely Hannah was dying from a brain injury while raped.

[chrisinth]

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I don't know if anything can be done any longer but I urge any one of you here to do your bit and sign the petition.

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller

Tried to sign it and it didn't work. I wonder how many others it didn't work for

Hi try to go direct to www.change.org you will find the petition on there.

if you need to search enter this text

Independently Investigate the horrific murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller

Sending it to

This petition will be delivered to:

UK Ambassador to Thailand Mark Kent

The Government of the United Kingdom

This is the context of the petition

Knowing full well that the Thai authorities are notoriously corrupt and have in the past intentionally withheld and/or planted evidence in order to protect murderers that are well connected,and with accusations of police offering bribes to false witnesses, we are not able to trust that the two Myanmar nationals being detained have not had their confessions forced out of them and as such cannot trust that they are responsible for the horrific rape and murders of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23.This being said, we demand a full independent investigation to be conducted by the government of the United Kingdom into these deaths in the hopes that the families of these victims may know justice has been served and that the deaths of two more possible innocents might be avoided.

And you honestly believe that the British ambassador would deliver a petition, worded as that above, to the Thai government?

Do you realize how much disrespect (true or false) that this would send?

It is a diplomatic world that these people live in, not the one that you and I may see. I would suggest if you want the message put across that you sit down for a moment and rewrite.

[shiatsuman]

Please, can a real journalist look into a few basic questions and publish in a major newspaper?

1. Is it true that the victim's phone was handed over to police by her friend the day after the murder? Is this is same phone the police claim was found behind the room belonging to the suspects?

2. Since the suspects worked at the very same bar that the victims were at that night, and since they didn't flee, how is it possible that the initial blanket DNA tests did not find a match?!?

3. Is it true that relatives of prominent families on the island were exempted from giving DNA? If so, why? What law requires poor people to give DNA, but excuses rich people.

I know there are many, many more unanswered questions, but these stand out for me.

I would happily donate to a legal fund for defense for these guys. Perhaps an NGO can set that up here?

The best suggestion yet. If a defence fund is set up I would be willing to chip in, especitally if it involved privately investigating the real culprits.

It needs to be done quickly because with the confessions and doctored DNA evidence the authorities will want to get

this affair swept under the table

[Baerboxer]

This amazing saga continues !!

Did you all see the front page of the Bangkok Post today. The Prime Minister says he checked the DNA, what a joke, I didn't know he was a forensic expert !!

Now, if the Thai's would let the British Police check the DNA then it would be conclusive but as it stands this case is complete bullshit, full of corruption and lies and a disgrace to the Thai authorities. Of course these guys are scapegoats

To be fair Cameron has stated he will review the case of the girl recently found murdered. Slightly different angle but nevertheless it sounds good when the top man says he personally did, does or will do that.

Bit like Cameron keeps stating he's remembering victims and their relatives in his prayers. If he is religious be must be spending a long time praying each night! Or he could be copying Obama who says this regularly too, presumably they both want to be seen as good upright Christians for some reason.