Koh Tao: British tourist murder suspects confess to human rights commissioner

[muntergok]

Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the pair, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, from the Arakanese town of Kyaukphyu, told a Burmese embassy legal team they had murdered English tourists

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, “We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol.

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

I am going to keep an open mind for the moment

Two migrant workers from Myanmar reportedly recanted their confessions today, telling a lawyer from the Burmese embassy they did not kill David Miller and Hannah Witheridge last month on Koh Tao.

Attorney Aung Myo Thant from the Burmese Embassy made his comments after meeting with the two men, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, who Thai police said had confessed to the crime.

In Burmese media reports, the lawyer said the two men told him they only confessed because they were forced to under torture.

"They told me that they were on the beach that night drinking and singing songs,” he said. “They said they didn't do it, that the Thai police (along with their Burmese-Thai translator) beat them until they confessed to something they didn't do. They're pleading with the Burmese government to look into the case and find out the truth. They were a really pitiful sight. Their bodies had all sorts of bruises. I have already reported all that I have seen today to my government."

Aung Myo Thant characterized it as a “set up” that wasn’t based on evidence.

He added that he was denied access to a third suspect originally detained, Maung Maung, because police said he is “a crucial witness” they do not want interference with.

Meanwhile Thai police authorities today said they’d met with Myanmar representatives who were “satisfied” with the results of their investigation.

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/10/07/koh-tao-murders-accused-men-recant-confessions-tell-embassy-lawyer-they-were-tortured

[maxme]

"A human rights commissioner..."

Yes! ..... but he is a Thai national - very independent?

Have to agree with previous posters that that remark was a bit touch much. There are a lot of Thais that think this case stinks and some of them have even posted statements that could get them into a lot of trouble with the authorities. Though the administration and law enforcement in this country are rotten doesnt make every living soul here as corrupt as they are. Because in that case we could drag up stuff about the UK and the US that puts them in equal unfavorable spotlight.

[smokie36]

Have you seen the level of violence used? This is not rape, that is just a by-product. This is either psychopathic or somebody out to make a MASSIVE point.

Good point, perhaps they should be tested for psychopathy. In such a case no need for motive.

One big question remaining is with regards to the murder weapon used to murder the male victim. How is it possible that the same weapon was used on both victims when the wounds inficted are so different?

Rape as motive doesn't stand up for me.

If they were looking to rape then a single female is their target....and even if they were interrupted why not run away?

So let's assume they stay to fight....they then murder and then continue with the rape followed by another murder?

It doesn't stand up....a rapist does not want any interference....and I would think the first thought if interrupted would be to run....especially at that time of the morning in the dark.

So....let's go back again.....motive?

[7Heaven]

read

Koh Tao case shatters faith in our police in bp under Opinion & analysis it explain a lot i.e A high-ranking officer at the Corrections Department once revealed in a TV interview his belief that half of all prisoners were scapegoats.

[laobali]

Now they've recanted their confession. See related post. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/766594-thai-justice-in-spotlight-over-cracks-in-koh-tao-case/page-3#entry8502836

[balo]

Have you seen the level of violence used? This is not rape, that is just a by-product. This is either psychopathic or somebody out to make a MASSIVE point.

Good point, perhaps they should be tested for psychopathy. In such a case no need for motive.

One big question remaining is with regards to the murder weapon used to murder the male victim. How is it possible that the same weapon was used on both victims when the wounds inficted are so different?

Rape as motive doesn't stand up for me.

If they were looking to rape then a single female is their target....and even if they were interrupted why not run away?

So let's assume they stay to fight....they then murder and then continue with the rape followed by another murder?

It doesn't stand up....a rapist does not want any interference....and I would think the first thought if interrupted would be to run....especially at that time of the morning in the dark.

So....let's go back again.....motive?

Why does there have to be a motive ?

A foreign man was killed by a Thai because he showed him the finger in Chiang Mai after stopping on red light . Foreigners been beaten to death before in this country and the motives has not always been clear.

Whether it's a Thai or a Burmese migrant worker who killed them , there does not have to be aclear motive. They were drunk and saw naked bodies having sex on the beach , maybe they exchanged a few words that angered the suspects , if you have that short fuse , it doesn't require much of a motive to kill .

[tbthailand]

Beer and wine?

Migrant workers?

Is wine cheap on Koh Tao?

I know in Bangkok the cheapest wine is about 350 Baht a bottle. Surely these people won't spend a days wage on a bottle of wine.

no it is not cheap and I never saw Burmese buying wine while there. Whiskey - no problem. Wine? That's for falang.

[catweazle]

I wish that this JTJ person would try for once to post one of his erratic doubter hater posts without the letters DNA in it, because this is all he has. He keeps repeating his DNA mantra like a broken record, and while doing this he simply takes the statements of some officials in as facts while calling truth seekers conspiracy theorists because they not take in as facts, but review and take into consideration compromising evidence in form of crime scene photos, witness statements on the internet, Koh Tao insider statements and other uncomfortable findings such as the ones posted on CSI LA in an otherwise completely messed up murder invstigation.

JTsomething and his sheeple (looks like he has a sheeple fan club consisting of the few other TV members that are too superficial to think for themselves and outside the box and look at crime scene photos and non-mainstream pages like CSI LA) on the other hand have absolutely nothing to show but the mantra-alike reciting of the corrupt officials' DNA blabla what by the way until now (according to the RTP statements) seems to be a match only regarding the cigarette buds, not the sperm. And even if...

...the Burmese could simply have sat there, shared an L&M cigarette with the owner of AC Bar (who loves L&M) and perhaps even Hannah. Sean might have played the guitar or went to get the guitar (witness statements vary here). Then, when all hell broke lose and the fight between David and the attackers ignited because someone (Thai) started fondling Hannah while she tried to fend him off, the Burmese ran for their life. I think it is even possible that they returned after some time, saw the mess and while being drunk, took turns in raping the corpse. The murder of Hannah itself was done in rage and hatred, destroying her face beyond recognition. Not necessary to do that if you want to make someone just shut up. These blows were the payback for the rebuff! Something a spoiled HiSo brat or an "I am the man!" knifes and guns lover mini Rambo wouldn't take that easy.

David was most likely attacked and taken out by two persons of which one had a push dagger. None of David's blood was found on the garden hoe! He might have received the big near fatal blow by a rock or perhaps even fell onto a rock, fracturing his skull in the fight, because the hoe wold have caved it in like a ripe melon (as it was the case with poor Hannah). Realising he was still alive and moaning, they pulled him into the water to drown. David's attacker (and killer) was a left hander and taller than an average Thai person according to the CSI findings talking about the angle of the stab wounds and where the majority of wounds was found (right hand side of David's head). I doubt that the murderer who smashed Hannah's face in raped her at all. I think his satisfaction was simply to see her dead, punished, silent with the pretty face that drove him crazy destroyed... Sean might have intervened (dagger marks on his arms and feet) or witnessed the whole scene and needed to be taken out because he is a key witness. I would not be suprised if his dead body is found a few weeks from now, somewhere in Nakhon or whatever after his parents filed a missing persons inquiry... suicide of course with a rope around his neck and some nice colorful bruising...

Yes, this all is speculation, but a story woven by putting the bits and pieces into consideration that the RTP refuses to look at.

Coming back to our good old friend Mr. Thailandjohnthailand (or the other way around and does it matter?)... He calls people conspiracy theorists who express reasonable doubt (JTJ check the dictionary to see what that means), based on findings on crime scene photos, witness statements, missing links and the hundreds of question marks left in the course of this messed up crime scene investigation and the puppeteered reenactment that proves horse$#it, while all he has to show in return is "I believe the RTP"... I believe he has not spend one single minute to even look at the crime scene photos, the stab marks, the whole Sean thing, the photos of the other possible suspects, etc.

How narrow minded and superficial one must be to kick and scream like a little child that was denied its icecream here in this forum, trying to fight the majority who is in doubt while trying to make his point with a fragile and brittle statement: "The DNA and the officials don't lie!" This shallow statement to him feels so strong that it makes the following magically disappear:

A prime Thai suspect disappears can't be reached, later reappears and claims to have been in Bkk while countless witnesses state that he was on the island on the day of the murder and had an argument with the murdered couple in that unfortunate night AND followed them together with some "friends" after they left the bar.

TJT's DNA babble further magically removes Sean, Sean's bloody guitar and the stab wounds on his body, and the frightening "hunt him and hang him!" incident the day or two after the murders, it further makes disappear the quest for a missing murder weapon (push dagger), it makes disappear the travesty of a crime reenactment with two people who have absolutely no clue about what happened so they have to be puppeteered around the crime scene, it makes the DNA traces of a third and possibly fourth person on Hannah's nipples disappear, it makes statements of the accused disappear that they have been tortured to confess or else... and the many other still open question marks in this case. In a proper court this all combined would have the jury in reasonable doubt, and everyone here knows what that means.

I end here, I am tired and sickened knowing that there are people out there so shallow, superficial and narrow minded that they would believe officials everything just because they said so. I just hope they will end up in a similar situation, being accused for something they haven't done and are tortured into a confession. Then they would beg for people like us truth seekers and doubters to come and help them... But since what goes around comes around, most likely they will be all alone out there and the ones in their previous fanclub would be the first ones to shout, "Hang him! Hang him high!" Because the officials and the DNA say he did it!

It's disgusting!

[tbthailand]

I was curious about this human rights commissioner - turns out he is one of the charter drafters of the 2007 constitution and a member of the (dubious) NHRC in Thailand - an organization which has no respect among human rights organizations.

In addition, I found this statement regarding his appointment to the NHRC - a real gem.

Parinya Sirisarakan is a businessman whose only known previous connection with human rights was being named by the previous Commission as a violator of human rights

The above quote comes from :

2011 ANNI Report on the

Performance and Establishment

of National Human Rights

Institutions in Asia

so I am not posting a link to it.

Clearly, the gentleman is closely aligned with the current 'administration' and has been identified as not having any experience in human rights.

Take this OP with a grain of salt - or maybe an entire shaker of salt.

[Richo68]

I have little doubt police may have roughed these guys up or at minimum deprived them of some of their rights but have nearly no doubt (only doubt is the court has not ruled yet) they have the right guys. Also have no doubt if these suspects were Thai (especially rich) that many of the posters outraged over the abuse of their rights would be screaming for more of their blood.

Police shouldn't abuse any suspects or anyone even rapist murderers but the evidence is just beyond overwhelming against these guys and their DNA samples can be got again by these lawyers and human rights people they confessed and then compared to the DNA results from the crime scene.

The way this is going to go down seems fairly predictable ..... these guys are going to please guilty and do everything in their power to downplay how monstrous their behavior was by saying they were drunk, didn't mean to kill them and so on in hopes of not receiving the death penalty

Lead a sheltered life have we? Or a paid shill perhaps?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/archive/news/hill-tribe-men-set-up-for-rape-murder-of-aussies/story-e6frg6t6-1111114342679?nk=95aecaa14a36bd4d2559b962948cc4e8

[Richo68]

It seems Thai police have quite a history of 'cover up' when it comes to the murder of foreigners...

THAI police set up two hill-tribe men to take the rap for the murder of Australian student Kelvin Bourke and the rape of his girlfriend Sheri McFarlane in northern Thailand in 2000.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/archive/news/hill-tribe-men-set-up-for-rape-murder-of-aussies/story-e6frg6t6-1111114342679?nk=95aecaa14a36bd4d2559b962948cc4e8

Just as in the case of British backpacker Kirsty Jones, 23, who was murdered and raped in a guest house in Chiang Mai, police in the same year tried to clear up the case by picking on non-Thai nationals.

In both cases they used torture.

In the case of Jones, from Wales, a Karen guide was tortured and police even tried to extract sperm from him, possibly to place in the crime scene.

Their plot was exposed after the Guides Association of Chiang Mai marched on the police station.

[Richo68]

I wish that this JTJ person would try for once to post one of his erratic doubter hater posts without the letters DNA in it, because this is all he has. He keeps repeating his DNA mantra like a broken record, and while doing this he simply takes the statements of some officials in as facts while calling truth seekers conspiracy theorists because they not take in as facts, but review and take into consideration compromising evidence in form of crime scene photos, witness statements on the internet, Koh Tao insider statements and other uncomfortable findings such as the ones posted on CSI LA in an otherwise completely messed up murder invstigation.

JTsomething and his sheeple (looks like he has a sheeple fan club consisting of the few other TV members that are too superficial to think for themselves and outside the box and look at crime scene photos and non-mainstream pages like CSI LA) on the other hand have absolutely nothing to show but the mantra-alike reciting of the corrupt officials' DNA blabla what by the way until now (according to the RTP statements) seems to be a match only regarding the cigarette buds, not the sperm. And even if...

...the Burmese could simply have sat there, shared an L&M cigarette with the owner of AC Bar (who loves L&M) and perhaps even Hannah. Sean might have played the guitar or went to get the guitar (witness statements vary here). Then, when all hell broke lose and the fight between David and the attackers ignited because someone (Thai) started fondling Hannah while she tried to fend him off, the Burmese ran for their life. I think it is even possible that they returned after some time, saw the mess and while being drunk, took turns in raping the corpse. The murder of Hannah itself was done in rage and hatred, destroying her face beyond recognition. Not necessary to do that if you want to make someone just shut up. These blows were the payback for the rebuff! Something a spoiled HiSo brat or an "I am the man!" knifes and guns lover mini Rambo wouldn't take that easy.

David was most likely attacked and taken out by two persons of which one had a push dagger. None of David's blood was found on the garden hoe! He might have received the big near fatal blow by a rock or perhaps even fell onto a rock, fracturing his skull in the fight, because the hoe wold have caved it in like a ripe melon (as it was the case with poor Hannah). Realising he was still alive and moaning, they pulled him into the water to drown. David's attacker (and killer) was a left hander and taller than an average Thai person according to the CSI findings talking about the angle of the stab wounds and where the majority of wounds was found (right hand side of David's head). I doubt that the murderer who smashed Hannah's face in raped her at all. I think his satisfaction was simply to see her dead, punished, silent with the pretty face that drove him crazy destroyed... Sean might have intervened (dagger marks on his arms and feet) or witnessed the whole scene and needed to be taken out because he is a key witness. I would not be suprised if his dead body is found a few weeks from now, somewhere in Nakhon or whatever after his parents filed a missing persons inquiry... suicide of course with a rope around his neck and some nice colorful bruising...

Yes, this all is speculation, but a story woven by putting the bits and pieces into consideration that the RTP refuses to look at.

Coming back to our good old friend Mr. Thailandjohnthailand (or the other way around and does it matter?)... He calls people conspiracy theorists who express reasonable doubt (JTJ check the dictionary to see what that means), based on findings on crime scene photos, witness statements, missing links and the hundreds of question marks left in the course of this messed up crime scene investigation and the puppeteered reenactment that proves horse$#it, while all he has to show in return is "I believe the RTP"... I believe he has not spend one single minute to even look at the crime scene photos, the stab marks, the whole Sean thing, the photos of the other possible suspects, etc.

How narrow minded and superficial one must be to kick and scream like a little child that was denied its icecream here in this forum, trying to fight the majority who is in doubt while trying to make his point with a fragile and brittle statement: "The DNA and the officials don't lie!" This shallow statement to him feels so strong that it makes the following magically disappear:

A prime Thai suspect disappears can't be reached, later reappears and claims to have been in Bkk while countless witnesses state that he was on the island on the day of the murder and had an argument with the murdered couple in that unfortunate night AND followed them together with some "friends" after they left the bar.

TJT's DNA babble further magically removes Sean, Sean's bloody guitar and the stab wounds on his body, and the frightening "hunt him and hang him!" incident the day or two after the murders, it further makes disappear the quest for a missing murder weapon (push dagger), it makes disappear the travesty of a crime reenactment with two people who have absolutely no clue about what happened so they have to be puppeteered around the crime scene, it makes the DNA traces of a third and possibly fourth person on Hannah's nipples disappear, it makes statements of the accused disappear that they have been tortured to confess or else... and the many other still open question marks in this case. In a proper court this all combined would have the jury in reasonable doubt, and everyone here knows what that means.

I end here, I am tired and sickened knowing that there are people out there so shallow, superficial and narrow minded that they would believe officials everything just because they said so. I just hope they will end up in a similar situation, being accused for something they haven't done and are tortured into a confession. Then they would beg for people like us truth seekers and doubters to come and help them... But since what goes around comes around, most likely they will be all alone out there and the ones in their previous fanclub would be the first ones to shout, "Hang him! Hang him high!" Because the officials and the DNA say he did it!

It's disgusting!

JTJ has all the traits of a paid internet shill.

[catweazle]

I have little doubt police may have roughed these guys up or at minimum deprived them of some of their rights but have nearly no doubt (only doubt is the court has not ruled yet) they have the right guys. Also have no doubt if these suspects were Thai (especially rich) that many of the posters outraged over the abuse of their rights would be screaming for more of their blood.

Police shouldn't abuse any suspects or anyone even rapist murderers but the evidence is just beyond overwhelming against these guys and their DNA samples can be got again by these lawyers and human rights people they confessed and then compared to the DNA results from the crime scene.

The way this is going to go down seems fairly predictable ..... these guys are going to please guilty and do everything in their power to downplay how monstrous their behavior was by saying they were drunk, didn't mean to kill them and so on in hopes of not receiving the death penalty

Lead a sheltered life have we? Or a paid shill perhaps?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/archive/news/hill-tribe-men-set-up-for-rape-murder-of-aussies/story-e6frg6t6-1111114342679?nk=95aecaa14a36bd4d2559b962948cc4e8

Thanks, Richo for this clarifying link as answer to one of TJTJ's DNA babbles. He is talking about "beyond overwhelming evidence" - what an idiotic joke! What evidence, what is overwhelming? Thailand is ell known for its potectionism and for pointing at others and picking on non-Thais. If for example German officials towards foreigners would act like the majority of Thai officials, newspapers would be full with "The Nazis are back!" articles and the country would face a bombardement of sanctions...

[catweazle]

JTJ has all the traits of a paid internet shill.

Correctamundo! His persistance is beyond reason. Just wonder who pays him...

[TheCruncher]

JTJ posting history is interesting, he appears to be an apologist for most things, a lot of similar posts in the thread below.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/759858-american-falls-to-his-death-from-5fl-of-bangkoks-nana-hotel/page-5

Lot of the same conspiracy theorist as in this thread overthere also.

Has it been proven yet that JTJ was wrong ?

Has it been proven that he was right? has it been proven the RTP are now beyond reproach? Apologists!!

It hasn't been proven that he is right, neither has it been proven that he's wrong.

So now you show your real colors, in that you consider that YOUR opinion is more valuable than the opinion from other members.

What was that about trolls again ?

[inutil]

Have you seen the level of violence used? This is not rape, that is just a by-product. This is either psychopathic or somebody out to make a MASSIVE point.

Good point, perhaps they should be tested for psychopathy. In such a case no need for motive.

One big question remaining is with regards to the murder weapon used to murder the male victim. How is it possible that the same weapon was used on both victims when the wounds inficted are so different?

Rape as motive doesn't stand up for me.

If they were looking to rape then a single female is their target....and even if they were interrupted why not run away?

So let's assume they stay to fight....they then murder and then continue with the rape followed by another murder?

It doesn't stand up....a rapist does not want any interference....and I would think the first thought if interrupted would be to run....especially at that time of the morning in the dark.

So....let's go back again.....motive?

Why does there have to be a motive ?

A foreign man was killed by a Thai because he showed him the finger in Chiang Mai after stopping on red light . Foreigners been beaten to death before in this country and the motives has not always been clear.

Whether it's a Thai or a Burmese migrant worker who killed them , there does not have to be aclear motive. They were drunk and saw naked bodies having sex on the beach , maybe they exchanged a few words that angered the suspects , if you have that short fuse , it doesn't require much of a motive to kill .

When you say the word 'because' you are about to answer the question WHY? And the 'why' is what we call "a motive".

Why did the man beat the foreigner to death in Chiang Mai after stopping at a red light? Because the foreigner gave him the finger [resulting in a furious outburst].

Is this a normal reaction? Perhaps he meant to only punch the guy, and perhaps the victim fell back and banged his head, dying from complications due to internal injuries. Now we have a motive and this motive allows us to diminish or mitigate the crime. It can work to show why someone committed the action they did. But it can also help that person explain their intent or rationalise their behaviour within a context.

This man lashed out over a finger? Ludicrous! that cant be right!

Perhaps he really did beat him to death over something so utterly trivial. We can find out his mental history. We can go to his workplace and interview his colleagues to see if he has anger issues that would corroborate his motive. Why would the police want to corroborate the mans motive? Good question! Let me explain: If it turns out that he does have anger issues, then the police have more reason to show why they have the correct person when building a case against the accused. But it also helps the accused show that they have a mitigating illness that most normal people don't have. A motive then, is very important when we have to decide if someone committed a crime or not.

The motive allows us to ask more questions and look for more information about our alleged culprit. It allows the police to investigate new information and hopefully turn up something that will contextualise the event. It will help their case against the person. And it will help that person in their defense. Motives are very important.

What if it turns out that this man has no history of furious enragement? Maybe this motive isnt standing up to scrutiny! Not so! We might look at the events leading up to the beating! Perhaps he just had some devastating news? Perhaps he had been drinking? Perhaps it was a very hot, uncomfortable day that day? Perhaps he had been stressed from something and this tiny insult was the final humiliation? This one reaction at this one time provides us a clear starting point to investigate from, and helps the police understand why the person ACTUALLY did what they did even if they say they did what they did because the guy gave him the finger.

It allows the police to show why the person did what they did, whilst also providing the defendant with a contextual explanation to mitigate their behavior and their (over) reaction. Perhaps he had just found out his wife had been killed in an accident? Wouldnt you be sad? Maybe even angry! I sure would! How would you feel if someone said something hurtful to you at that moment? Wouldn't it make you more mad? Maybe in the same situation, we also might have done something that we later regretted? Perhaps that's what happened here too! Perhaps he got so mad that he did something he shouldnt have and now regrets it very much. Perhaps we can now understand that we might also act in the same way in the same situation. We can't say he is innocent, but we can say he has mitigating reasons for his behavior. Maybe we will be more understanding of his action now and not judge him so harshly?

Motives are very important for both the people investigating and the people under investigation. They provide context and turn a black and white abstract act into a human one. We are all human. We have emotions and they are all natural. Sometimes we have to control our strong emotions. But sometimes we aren't always in the best place to do this. Motives help us to explain why something happened and help us to understand events from the viewpoint of the people it happened to.

But okay, we've done some investigation. And we can't find anything. It seems an insane over-reaction. We accept the motive. He clearly over-reacted to something and acted in a manner that very few others would in the same situation. It was spontaneous, heat of the moment, and stupid. He will probably have to accept that this is murder without any mitigation. At best, manslaughter should he be able to convince others that he had no intention to kill the victim. Well, his motive does help show he didnt have any intention so at least his motive won't HURT his argument!

But whats this!!! Perhaps, on later investigation it turns out that the man who beat the foreigner to death actually knew the foreigner because the foreigner was sleeping with his wife. So now we have a clear picture of why the act was carried out and corroborating evidence that shows this person had cause to act in this way. And the fact he lied about his motive to pretend this was an impulsive act based on pride or anger rather than a calculated and planned attack will now count AGAINST him in a court. It will show that in providing this motive, he acted and continues to act in a calculated and premeditated manner by lying about his reasons and not disclosing his true motive. He thus shows no remorse for his action and would no doubt do it again. This 'motive' will help the police show he deserves a stronger punishment and it will therefore hurt any claim by the accused person to have acted spontaneously and in the heat of the moment. Because he is lying about why he killed that person, he will show he has no remorse for his action. And because he has no remorse and had planned his attack, It would lead to him serving a more severe term

So that's what a motive is and why it is important. I hope you've enjoyed this after-school special on MOTIVES.

[AGareth2]

read

Koh Tao case shatters faith in our police in bp under Opinion & analysis it explain a lot i.e A high-ranking officer at the Corrections Department once revealed in a TV interview his belief that half of all prisoners were scapegoats.

unbelievable

half?

[zaphod reborn]

Well a statement like that, anywhere else in the world would probably bring an instant mistrial.

Pure heresay

Do you mean hearsay Mr. Lawyer? Maybe you didn't study the hearsay rule in your evidence class. The hearsay rule has numerous exceptions. A statement against one's interest made to another person by a party is admissible in court against that party.

[joecoolfrog]

Cruncher

Everybody has a right to an opinion , the Troll accusation is based on the fact that he has repeated his mantra , hundreds and hundreds of times. What makes it even more remarkable is his basic message which amounts to ' Everybody shut up , the RTP are doing great , no need to comment. '

I find it offensive to be told not to post by a hypocrite who appears to be chained to his keyboard , Troll is pretty lenient considering his behaviour in multiple threads.

[AndySilverfox]

Why were these Burmese worker apprehended again..? looks like a lucky pick to me. Is Sean McKenna's information now all put down as ramblings of a mad man ? He knew David and has the same scar shape as the victim. He was fearful for his life following the murders, but he is not worth speaking to.? I would have thought he would have a story to tell, and I doubt if it would include any Burmese workers. It does seem quite likely that he was at the scene of the crime in some capacity. I don't think this case would trouble Sherlock too much.

[loongdavid]

To those who appear to object to my somewhat blunt reference to a Thai national member of the Thai Human Rights Commission overseeing the RTP conduct in the subject investigation, I supply the following in brief...

The UN Human Rights Charter (of which Thailand is a member signatory) states in part, "...The members of the Human Rights Committee, must be "of high moral character and recognized competence in the field of human rights" (my emphasis)..." Apologises for being highly selective in my quote but the Charter is a very lengthy document and I think my quote speaks volumes anyway.

It is also worth noting that in recent times the UN Human Rights Committee when requested to oversee an investigation into conduct that may be contrary to the Charter have always assigned members independent of the particular country in question and their representative(s), e.g. Argentina, Bosnia, Iraq, Sri Lanka to name but a few. A first national of a country that was being scrutinised would not have sat on that committee so as the committee would be seen to be unbiased, reach objective conclusions and make determined decisions based without fear or favour. Decisions that ultimately may have been referred to the International Criminal Court (ICC) in the Hague, e.g. Bosnia.

For the UN to devolve their Charter commitments down to a particular country i.e. Thailand, the same principals apply. Genocide or an individual homicide makes no difference.

I trust this clears up any doubt that some may have had with this particular matter being overseen by a Thai national(s). Should it not, I strongly suggest reading in full the UN charter of Human Rights and its affect within Thailand and the current matter. The law not only has to be done, it has to be seen to be done.

[MikePhuket1970]

Why were these Burmese worker apprehended again..? looks like a lucky pick to me. Is Sean McKenna's information now all put down as ramblings of a mad man ? He knew David and has the same scar shape as the victim. He was fearful for his life following the murders, but he is not worth speaking to.? I would have thought he would have a story to tell, and I doubt if it would include any Burmese workers. It does seem quite likely that he was at the scene of the crime in some capacity. I don't think this case would trouble Sherlock too much.

The only problem Sherlock would have is that the RTP find drugs in his house

and he will be locked up for 25 years...

[JohnThailandJohn]

I wish that this JTJ person would try for once to post one of his erratic doubter hater posts without the letters DNA in it,

Yes because considering facts doesn't go well with conspiracy theories.

Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the pair, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, from the Arakanese town of Kyaukphyu, told a Burmese embassy legal team they had murdered English tourists

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, “We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol.

https://www.dvb.no/n...a-myanmar/44781

[boomerangutang]

jtj they say they hit david with the blunt end of the hoe. the police say they hit him with the sharp end of the hoe. the pathologist stated that davids DNA was not found on the hoe. so can you explain why the police accepted that the hoe was the weapon that killed david, Makes the confessions very dubious. BY the way I don't expect you to really answer me, because when you know you are wrong you spew out shit about conspiracy theorists.

That's good you're focusing on the weapon(s). In any serious murder, the weapon is a key factor. You wouldn't gather that from how Thai investigators are doing their job. Here are some thoughts about the weapons:

>>> initially, it was stated by cops that none of David's blood was on hoe.

>>> For a week cops said a stick was 2nd weapon. Then we heard no more about the stick.

>>> in the reenactment (which was ridiculously micro-managed by cops) the indication was the sharp end of the hoe was used on David.

>>> A close look at David's wounds don't indicate the blunt or sharp end of a hoe. Indeed, it gets back to the precept that David's blood was nowhere on the hoe. It's an old garden hoe. Those things are never sharpened and not even cleaned after concrete work. It's as blunt as a tea cup saucer.

>>> Someone recently mentioned, if the sharp end of a hoe punctured flesh, it would almost certain crush bone beneath. As far as we've heard, there's no indication of that.

>>> Around 10 puncture wounds to David. Most are at the right side of the neck, where it's easy to sever the main artery (the killer probably had fighting skills). As mentioned earlier many times, it's quite possible those wounds were caused by a small stabbing blade held tightly in a fist or projecting from a fighter's knuckles. It's borderline illegal to purchase those in Thailand, and is the type of weapon that wouldn't be strange to find on a cop or a rich Thai with a tough-guy image, like the brother or son of the headman.

What the cops could do but it's very unlikely they have: research to see if any suspects purchased such a weapon, either by mail or from a Thai. There must be some Thais in that region who sell specialized weapons. The type of guys who probably sell handguns and ammo. Have any of the suspects, including those connected with the headman, ever been seen or photographed with one of those punch blades? Additionally, that type of weapon is not hard to make from a single piece of steel. Have all the metal working shops in the vicinity been checked on that point? Answer: NO.

In sum: Cops don't really care about the murder weapons, unless it somehow fits with their frame-up scenario against the Burmese. If the weapons investigation leads anywhere else, they don't give a hoot.

[dondon950]

The third person has said today, he does not believe that his two friends are guilty.. that he has been beaten also. The next morning when he saw his two friends, all appeared normal and neither of them had any cuts, scratches etc. If that is their only witness then he is only going to beneficial to the defence tbh

[inutil]

I wish that this JTJ person would try for once to post one of his erratic doubter hater posts without the letters DNA in it,

Yes because considering facts doesn't go well with conspiracy theories.

Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the pair, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, from the Arakanese town of Kyaukphyu, told a Burmese embassy legal team they had murdered English tourists

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, “We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol.

https://www.dvb.no/n...a-myanmar/44781

Actually, if anything what you are doing is taking away information

In the first case (the one you chose to quote), Kyaw Thaung relays a very brief statement about a section of what he heard from the two suspects. He adds absolutely not one bit of his own interpretation to this story. To wit:

We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol. When asked for further details, they said they bashed the victims two or three times each with the blunt end of a hoe, but not with the sharp end. They said they did it because they were drunk but did not intend to kill the couple.

At no point anywhere does he give his interpretation that he is satisfied or dissatisfied with this story. He is RELAYING information. Thats it. The rest of the details and accusations are made MUCH MUCH earlier in the article. Im genuinely amazed you missed them because usually people read the stuff earlier in the passage before getting to the bits in the middle. Maybe youre not like everyone else? I wouldnt want to judge...

And in those parts you find:

1. The same overall themes as relayed by Kyaw Thaung: They met the defendants, they confessed, they told how they did it and why, they claimed they were drunk at the time.

2. A claim by Aung Myo Thant that these stories were 'somewhat inconsistent'

3. A claim that they had been tortured into making their confessions

4. A claim that the forensic reports and evidence provided by the state were inconsistent

5. A claim that the case was 'a set up and not based on hard facts'

Lets now add a couple of new things;

a: we now know that the defendants claim they bashed the skulls of BOTH David and Hannah with the BLUNT end of the hoe. They are now on record as having stated this. They are very clear they did not use the sharp end.

b: They claim they were very drunk.

(both of these will provide a lot more material for people working out this case independently of the RTP).

Im surprised that you would miss all that given it was in the first 10 or so lines of the articles. Pretty hard to miss if im honest. I wonder why youd leave it out? I mean it clearly undermines any attempt to suggest that the embassy and human rights group are satisfied with the case And it certainly undermines any ridiculous claim that the embassy and human rights groups have confirmation of their guilt given that the lawyer sent by the embassy to represent them, says the exact opposite, whilst the human rights person makes no personal statement at all about their satisfaction and simply relates the story told by the defendants without judgement.

I wouldnt want to pass judgement on your own selective reading myself of course, so ill just leave you to explain how this lack of an interpretation gives you the remit to suggest that the embassy and human rights groups are satisfied with events and that this adds to the confirmation of their guilt.

[boomerangutang]

Yes because considering facts doesn't go well with conspiracy theories.

You can say 'conspiracy theories' ten thousand times, but it only makes you sound shrill and desperate. Admit it, you're hook line and sinker in the frame-up camp. You didn't even have a problem, earlier on, when cops announced the Burmese don't get any legal representation 'because they didn't ask for it.' You and the cops would have loved to have left it at that, with Thai confessions signed under duress, but too bad for you, some lawyers showed up to talk to the Burmese.

Instead of conspiracy theorists, many of us are concerned people who would like to see the real killers arrested, tried and punished. Instead, what we're seeing from authorities smells like a frame-up. If the DNA is independently tested and compared by a lab with no allegiance to RTP, then that would do a lot to allay doubts of the veracity of Thai officialdom, who are known to grab scapegoats and do what they're trying to do now.

[chotthee]

So whose sperm was in the condom?

Have you seen a rapist comes prepared with a condom?

[smokie36]

@balo......of course there is no need for a motive.

People go out every weekend in Thailand and commit rape and double murder....of course they do and they have no motive at all.

You really are quite ridiculous....one of the key issues in any case like this is what was the motive?

It could be an altercation started it...that's just about the only sensible thing you have said.

Funny then...no mention of it from the two Burmese lads isn't it?

Time for you to relax with a sample of DNA.

[boomerangutang]

Thus far, we've heard nothing on the following topics from Thai authorities:

>>> the scenario in the bar preceding the exit of key players that night.

>>> prior law-breaking history of any of the suspects.

>>> prior history of, for example, the headman's son or brother regarding seducing farang ladies. This may sound petty or voyeuristic, but bear with me. If there have been many stories, for example, of one or both of them forcing themselves on pretty young farang women late at night, after exiting their bar, then that could possibly have a bearing on the case in a 'character' way. There may be dozens or hundreds of young farang women who have stories of coercion to tell about those two (or other suspects) which could possibly shed light on the investigation.

Here's an example of a case in Japan from several years ago: A Japanese man frequents a bar where pretty farang women hang out. He scores often. After one particular night a farang gal doesn't show up the next day. There's a search of the man's house. Cops knew to go there because of his character history. They find formaldihyde (or ether or some sort of debilitating chemical liquid) and used cotton swabs but find no body. Cops search the beach by his house. Find no body, so there's no legal case. Cops go back weeks later and search the beach again. They find the lady's body buried under sand in a shallow cave. Man gets convicted of murder. I mention this because when there's a pattern (a handsome, rich man, for example, who successfully beds many farang women), then he may become a suspect when a crime has been committed which fits the scenario. At Ko Tao, the characters/patterns of the headman's male relatives and his cop friends should be a factor in the investigation.