Central loses to Deves in 3.7 billion baht fire claim

[Thai at Heart]

Depends on the policy fine print , some don't cover for riots , war , floods, act of god, they cover their arse so good you really think they are great, until you claim , some in East Oz are still waiting from floods three years ago and many is the time the Oz governments have actually named and shamed them after bush fires ,the people concerned thinking they were covered for fire, in real terms they are blood sucking leaches., Insurance companies I mean.

Not helped at all by the government claiming that the reds were terrorists.

That would void most insurances .

[Sviss Geez]

If you want good insurance cover that actually pays out make sure it is a foreign owned company, not Thai.

Yes, of course, Thai insurance companies are the only insurance companies in the world that will try not to pay any claim if they feel that claim is not justified. Every insurance company, everywhere, does exactly the same thing, do you really think that every claim on insurance policies is automatically paid? Any insurance company's business is to make money not to just dole it out left, right and centre without checking their liability.

[Sviss Geez]

Depends on the policy fine print , some don't cover for riots , war , floods, act of god, they cover their arse so good you really think they are great, until you claim , some in East Oz are still waiting from floods three years ago and many is the time the Oz governments have actually named and shamed them after bush fires ,the people concerned thinking they were covered for fire, in real terms they are blood sucking leaches., Insurance companies I mean.

Alternatively, policy holders could always read their policy to ensure they've bought the right one.

[jabis]

Note to (self/)everybody: read out the fine print before signing.

[Fab5BKK]

Of course, the "reds" weren't very near CentralWorld and "T" isn't their leader...

How funny some people miss the opportunity to shut up.

Just ridiculous

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Jatuporn and that Dubai idiot should be paying the bill as well. alt=thumbsup.gif>

Why you have proof they did it? If so show it or shut up.

[MAJIC]

Depends on the policy fine print , some don't cover for riots , war , floods, act of god, they cover their arse so good you really think they are great, until you claim , some in East Oz are still waiting from floods three years ago and many is the time the Oz governments have actually named and shamed them after bush fires ,the people concerned thinking they were covered for fire, in real terms they are blood sucking leaches., Insurance companies I mean.

Most insurance cover is based on the same hidden clause: i.e. if it's likely/possible to happen and expensive to pay out, it will be covered,in the small print,such as areas prone to flooding,if it's a spaceship landing on your house,expect top cover! small claims are payed out on a company winning percentage basis,80% no claims 20% pay out!

[ATF]

Insurance does not pay out for Acts of God, Terrorism, War (Could be argued this was a Civil War), Civil Unrest, Flooding, Earthquakes etc.

However in these circumstances it's usually the responsibility of the Government to assist.

They only reference they have is if other properties that were burnt down received a payout.

Central doesn't have a good track record though because Central Chidlom burnt down a few years before which allegedly was arson.

[Chris Lawrence]

They weren't covered. There were no Terrorists? They needed cover for civil unrest?

[Robby nz]

They weren't covered. There were no Terrorists? They needed cover for civil unrest?

From the OP :

Central said in the notification that its insurance policies bought from Deves Insurance covers industrial all risk (13,224 million baht) business interruptions (6,147 million baht), and terrorism (3,500 million baht).

They were covered for terrorism and several people have been charged with terrorism, some out on bail waiting for the charges to be heard and at least one on the run..

[needforspeed]

Just wait and see, they not lost the final battle and they not going to loose.

[GertrudeL]

Never buy any insurance... simply open an account and put % of your monthly income there. It will be cheaper and works 100%! It's not first time and the only country who played dirty... I gad cases with huge European insurance company who refused to deal with car accident (the case was double insured). The companies do not understand that after such cases nobody will buy their service... Insurance business does not mean 500% profit!

Edited October 12, 2014 by GertrudeL

[needforspeed]

Never buy any insurance... simply open an account and put % of your monthly income there. It will be cheaper and works 100%! It's not first time and the only country who played dirty... I gad cases with huge European insurance company who refused to deal with car accident (the case was double insured). The companies do not understand that after such cases nobody will buy their service... Insurance business does not mean 500% profit!

Accept if you have to claim the first year, also in some area's the law tells you to get a insurance so no choice.

mostly i agree, they modern robbers

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I did a Google search but didn't find anything. Was there no coverage in the BKK Post on this?

I was hoping to find some news report that gave the stated rationale for the appeals court's reversal.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's a Google cache link to Central's SET notification. The actual direct link is not working for some reason.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-l_ADq9KaM4J:www.set.or.th/set/pdfnews.do%3Ffile%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.set.or.th%252Fdat%252Fmds_news%252Fnews%252F0481NWS091020142040300247E.pdf+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=th&client=firefox-a

[Chris Lawrence]

They weren't covered. There were no Terrorists? They needed cover for civil unrest?

From the OP :

Central said in the notification that its insurance policies bought from Deves Insurance covers industrial all risk (13,224 million baht) business interruptions (6,147 million baht), and terrorism (3,500 million baht).

They were covered for terrorism and several people have been charged with terrorism, some out on bail waiting for the charges to be heard and at least one on the run..

Robbie who were the terrorists? And what were they actually charged with.

I managed the insurances for a property Trust many years ago. An act that happened was to do with civil unrest which would be argued by the insurer.

To find out what happened you would need to read the court transcript.

[belg]

Deves is owned by the Crown Property Bureau. 'Nuff said.

the mods did not give you a ban yet, for commenting something belonging to ...

[bangon04]

Deves is owned by the Crown Property Bureau. 'Nuff said.

Yes I was a little surprised that this story made it's way to the news and wasn't covered up.

The end of the day it's a company set up to enrich it's rich shareholders and not to provide insurarnce when their policy holders need it.

As most of them are.

and this company has a certain moral authority in Thailand, so more difficult to challenge/dispute?

[madmitch]

For those that believe that Acts Of God are excluded from every insurance policy YOU ARE WRONG! I'm an atheist, nothing is an Act Of God as far as I am concerned and windstorm, flood, quake etc, which you would probably consider an Act Of God, may or may not be included in your policy. It depends upon the wording.

This isn't a simple case. Central Group don't just go to their local insurance agent and buy a policy. A company of that size would employ a risk management team, part of whose job it is to handle insurance purchasing and claims negotiations. Deves will not be accepting the entire risk as it's too big, and reinsurance companies, and possibly other mainstream insurers, may be involved here.

We do not know the exact wording of the policy but there will certainly be a riots and civil commotion exclusion and that's what this case is all about. What was the cause of the fire? With my limited knowledge of this event, the civil commotion exclusion clause would almost certainly apply.

Any insurance company would fight this claim. As a previous poster said, insurance companies are not charities, they are businesses. If Deves were to pay this claim, they would then have a fight on their hands with their reinsurers who would take exactly the same view, as they would also exclude riots and civil commotion. And a different court, possibly in a different jurisdiction, may hand down a different verdict.

It's a lot more complicated than many might think.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Have you read what CPN is saying about the nature of their insurance coverage:

"CPN would like to clarify that CPN is protected by Industrial All Risk, Business Interruption with the sums insured of Baht 13,224 million and Baht 6,147 million respectively. In addition, CPN is also protected by Terrorism with the sum insured of Baht 3,500 million."

[madmitch]

Have you read what CPN is saying about the nature of their insurance coverage: "CPN would like to clarify that CPN is protected by Industrial All Risk, Business Interruption with the sums insured of Baht 13,224 million and Baht 6,147 million respectively. In addition, CPN is also protected by Terrorism with the sum insured of Baht 3,500 million."

How is terrorism defined in the policy wording? We don't know.

My initial thoughts would be that this wasn't an act of terrorism, but a spontaneous act resulting from riots and/or civil commotion. But that is without reading the wording and the definitions. If it were simple it wouldn't be in the courts and believe me, insurance companies don't get as far as court without believing they have a pretty watertight case.

[Nickymaster]

If there are any doubts ...

Love that famous line: I shall be there with you in person.

[Nickymaster]

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Jatuporn and that Dubai idiot should be paying the bill as well. alt=thumbsup.gif>

Why you have proof they did it? If so show it or shut up.

I remember at least one gentleman shouting from a stage right in front of Central world days earlier, that they would turm Bangkok in a sea of fire if the army dared to crack down on them.

I recall another gentleman shouting from that same stage that every red shirt should bring a bottle of gasoline with them on their visit.

Quite a coincidence that Bangkok, and especially the place right at their back, turned into sea of fire. Don't you think so?

Early onset of Alzheimers or just lying to appeal to the usual suspects on here?

The speeches you refer to were made by Arisman Pongruangrong at Kohn Khaen on January 29th 2010 (a rhetorical speech about what could happen if a crackdown on the UDD by the army occurred - which the army eventually did carry out, some 4 months later) and Nattawut Saikua from the stage in Bangkok on May 19th which was a warning of what could happen if the army carried out a coup d'etat.

Perhaps next time your recollections will be nearer the truth.

Yeah just a warning.....

"Go ahead and burn it all my brothers and sisters. I will take responsibility personally"