Britain summons Thai envoy over Koh Tao tourist murder probe

[dieseldave1951]

just watched to good general say on TV that UK did not summons the Thai envoy re KOH TAO who the <deleted> do you belive here ?????

[SteveFong]

why are people calling him the "good" general,

what was his true career?

[GAZZPA]

Coming from a family of diplomats, the summoning of a foreign diplomat comes after much verbal and written communication. It is a strong sign of displeasure. The meeting may be cordial, polite and not really sound like much, but the message is received loud and clear - we're not happy, we don't trust what you're doing. It already means a 'losing of face' in diplomatic circles. Foreign diplomats are not formally called lightly, it means something.

Exactly - a lot of people are missing this here. I do a lot of work in the diplomatic service and I know the nature of the language used, etc. It's very different from how the rest of us communicate things... there's a whole protocol and 'culture' around it. For example, when the UK says that it's willing to help in the investigation, it's basically demanding to be involved while at the same time recognising the sovereignty of the other country (and thus its right to manage its own investigation). And as you said, summoning a foreign diplomat is a very big deal with very significant meaning...

I agree with all that you have said. But let us look at the reason for the summoning. The media has put so much pressure on the Government that they have no choice but to save face. That is all it amounts to a saving of face.

The British government doesn't give a hoot about it's citizens. Ask any pensioner if he is getting treated fairly or are they with holding money on his pension because he lives in Thailand. Ask a British citizen what they have done to help him when stranded here in Thailand or in jail. The British do not have a good name for supporting their citizens in Thailand. They are more concerned with looking good in Diplomatic circles. That is what this is all about. They are exactly like many Asians. Look good never mind the reality.

What complete rubbish. The British Government care for their citizens as much, and in some cases MORE then most developed countries. Have you considered FREE health service, state pension, social security (and rent paid if unemployed), fuel allowance during the winter for the elderly, reduced transport charges for elderly, unemployed or students,,etc, etc,, ok these schemes may have some flaws BUT they do exist.

As for "Face" issue, this phenomenon does not exist in the UK and the certainly don't care about it in Thailand. What does exist is reputation and respect,, both of which cannot be bought. The UK will go about this the right way, they won't charge in full of emotion but the pressure will grow and build if answers are not given. This is how most Governments work outside of LOS.

So why don't you stop blabbering about things you clearly know nothing about.

[MJP]

Coming from a family of diplomats, the summoning of a foreign diplomat comes after much verbal and written communication. It is a strong sign of displeasure. The meeting may be cordial, polite and not really sound like much, but the message is received loud and clear - we're not happy, we don't trust what you're doing. It already means a 'losing of face' in diplomatic circles. Foreign diplomats are not formally called lightly, it means something.

Exactly - a lot of people are missing this here. I do a lot of work in the diplomatic service and I know the nature of the language used, etc. It's very different from how the rest of us communicate things... there's a whole protocol and 'culture' around it. For example, when the UK says that it's willing to help in the investigation, it's basically demanding to be involved while at the same time recognising the sovereignty of the other country (and thus its right to manage its own investigation). And as you said, summoning a foreign diplomat is a very big deal with very significant meaning...

I agree with all that you have said. But let us look at the reason for the summoning. The media has put so much pressure on the Government that they have no choice but to save face. That is all it amounts to a saving of face.

The British government doesn't give a hoot about it's citizens. Ask any pensioner if he is getting treated fairly or are they with holding money on his pension because he lives in Thailand. Ask a British citizen what they have done to help him when stranded here in Thailand or in jail. The British do not have a good name for supporting their citizens in Thailand. They are more concerned with looking good in Diplomatic circles. That is what this is all about. They are exactly like many Asians. Look good never mind the reality.

What complete rubbish. The British Government care for their citizens as much, and in some cases MORE then most developed countries. Have you considered FREE health service, state pension, social security (and rent paid if unemployed), fuel allowance during the winter for the elderly, reduced transport charges for elderly, unemployed or students,,etc, etc,, ok these schemes may have some flaws BUT they do exist.

As for "Face" issue, this phenomenon does not exist in the UK and the certainly don't care about it in Thailand. What does exist is reputation and respect,, both of which cannot be bought. The UK will go about this the right way, they won't charge in full of emotion but the pressure will grow and build if answers are not given. This is how most Governments work outside of LOS.

So why don't you stop blabbering about things you clearly know nothing about.

I know British OAP's in Thailand who spend their winter fuel allowance on air conditioning.

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[Number 3]

The PM's version:

"They did not summon us. We went to provide clarification to them,"

"We went to show them how we work. They might be surprised at how quickly we work"

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/world/article/thai-pm-plays-down-concern-over-tourist-murder-investigation#sthash.JMU19tcX.dV9skbrp.dpuf

They might have been.

But they weren't.

[dieseldave1951]

You just cant belive anyone including "the good general" in Thailand

i did belive he had his army head on according to the picture shown when he is stating "we went to them"!!! bulls--t

still playing the world as subnormals and Thailand is center of the world and NEVER wrong

I thought the army head was the sensable head ,but i see that the policital head seems to be winning through

so lies and trying the pull the wool over our eyes STILL very much in evidence

why would the UK say it summonsed the Thai envoy if it had not

of coarse they can work quickly cut corners and fit up easy

i hope the UK is about to destroy this lying and deciet from Thailand as a whole

The PM's version:

"They did not summon us. We went to provide clarification to them,"

"We went to show them how we work. They might be surprised at how quickly we work"

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/world/article/thai-pm-plays-down-concern-over-tourist-murder-investigation#sthash.JMU19tcX.dV9skbrp.dpuf

They might have been.
But they weren't.

[Number 3]

You just cant belive anyone including "the good general" in Thailand

i did belive he had his army head on according to the picture shown when he is stating "we went to them"!!! bulls--t

still playing the world as subnormals and Thailand is center of the world and NEVER wrong

I thought the army head was the sensable head ,but i see that the policital head seems to be winning through

so lies and trying the pull the wool over our eyes STILL very much in evidence

why would the UK say it summonsed the Thai envoy if it had not

of coarse they can work quickly cut corners and fit up easy

i hope the UK is about to destroy this lying and deciet from Thailand as a whole

The PM's version:

"They did not summon us. We went to provide clarification to them,"

"We went to show them how we work. They might be surprised at how quickly we work"

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/world/article/thai-pm-plays-down-concern-over-tourist-murder-investigation#sthash.JMU19tcX.dV9skbrp.dpuf

They might have been.

But they weren't.

Too right diesel. And all the while " tick tock tick tock...." As the Burmese boys face certain death.

Look at the procedure yesterday. Now given that the public prosecutor has not passed this report on to the court yet it is still at review stage no ? how hurried can one be here? Why ? The judge threw out each and every request that the defence council put forward - so at least make an attempt to make this look somewhat unbiased by the court!

Stitch up almost complete.

Witnessing the police and army corruption for some of us can be a daily event.

Knowing that a public prosecutor and a court of law is in. That's a whole other level is it not ?

Imagine now that two young Americans had been slaughtered, for a second - the Americans would have swooped in and taken over this farce immediately no iffs or buts from those guys.

[Artisi]

what an insult!

getting a dressing down by a junior minister!

Yes, the Brits know how to play the game - British diplomats were wheeling and dealing hundreds of years before the Thai's even knew what diplomacy meant and they're still not upto speed.

[dieseldave1951]

thailand does not know what diplomacy is full stop

[BoristheBlade]

We as Ex pats can't but the Thai people can.

If this was going on in the UK their would be riots in the streets.

Jesus, this thread would be so much more credible and useful if it stayed on topic, getting real boring reading posts about poms and aussies. So back to the matter in hand.

Looks like the Thai PM is completely contradicting the British statement and putting his own spin on it. I know which one I believe and its not the Thai version! http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/world/article/thai-pm-plays-down-concern-over-tourist-murder-investigation

We will all have to accept that NOTHING will prevent the Thai legal system to bring in a guilty verdict. And there's nothing we can do about it.

[BoristheBlade]

Head man's DNA in Koh Tao would be easy to obtain.

That would give a good idea if his family is involved.

Maybe thats why Her Majesty's Goverement is becoming Pro-Active.

[sustento]

what an insult!

getting a dressing down by a junior minister!

Yes, the Brits know how to play the game - British diplomats were wheeling and dealing hundreds of years before the Thai's even knew what diplomacy meant and they're still not upto speed.

Never heard of Kosa Pan then?

[dieseldave1951]

for a country that is 544 years ahead of everyone else they are so behind in any civilised legal fair practices

thailand law is still the same as 20 years ago and has just got lax and more corrupt

has not move forward with new advances

remember you buy your way in to the RTP so i assume you just pick bit of law as you progress

so no idea of how to investigate just wing it

no wonder this case is such a mess with all the lies, fit ups destroying evidence, changing evidence,omiting evidence,wrong suspects

also the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing

i cant see the mr pryuth going against his own police so (hopefully) the suspects will get released and then the whole sorrid system will inplode

wont have to worry about loss of face then, worry about the EGG ON FACE

also ro ridacule of the world in every newspaper media ontlet on earth, that will last for ever

[changnaam]

Evidence shown on uk govt website the summons was absolutely clear.

Accept it when you have been told and take it on the chin.

[Lancashireman]

for a country that is 544 years ahead of everyone else they are so behind in any civilised legal fair practices

thailand law is still the same as 20 years ago and has just got lax and more corrupt

has not move forward with new advances

remember you buy your way in to the RTP so i assume you just pick bit of law as you progress

so no idea of how to investigate just wing it

no wonder this case is such a mess with all the lies, fit ups destroying evidence, changing evidence,omiting evidence,wrong suspects

also the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing

i cant see the mr pryuth going against his own police so (hopefully) the suspects will get released and then the whole sorrid system will inplode

wont have to worry about loss of face then, worry about the EGG ON FACE

also ro ridacule of the world in every newspaper media ontlet on earth, that will last for ever

543...but I get your drift...

[littlebw]

UK police to travel to Thailand to probe tourist murders

UK police have been cleared to travel to Thailand to investigate the murders of British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller after the country's military ruler dropped his objections.

Miss Witheridge, 23, from Great Yarmouth, and 24-year-old Mr Miller, from Jersey, were brutally murdered on the holiday island of Koh Tao in September. Two men have been charged with their murders.

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2014-10-17/uk-police-to-travel-to-thailand-to-probe-tourist-murders/

[littlebw]

Police to examine DNA and duress claims in Thai case

British detectives travelling to investigate the backpacker murders in Thailand are expected to focus on independent checks of DNA samples central to the case against two Burmese men accused of the crime and their claims to have been mistreated.

Diplomatic sources said Thailand's military ruler accepted the sending of a delegation to investigate the killing of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller when pressed on the issue by David Cameron during their summit meeting.

Obviously it is for the Thai authorities to lead and carry out that judicial process. But it is important that it is fair and transparent and that both of the families can be reassured that it is the murderers that have been brought to justice.

There are two areas we are particularly concerned about. One is the verification of the DNA samples of the suspects, making sure there is further independent verification. And the second is the investigation into allegations of mistreatment of the suspects. What the PM secured this morning was agreement from the Thai PM that we can send some British police investigators to Kho Tao to work with the Royal Thai Police on this.

– DIPLOMATIC SOURCE

[Lancashireman]

UK police to travel to Thailand to probe tourist murders

UK police have been cleared to travel to Thailand to investigate the murders of British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller after the country's military ruler dropped his objections.

Miss Witheridge, 23, from Great Yarmouth, and 24-year-old Mr Miller, from Jersey, were brutally murdered on the holiday island of Koh Tao in September. Two men have been charged with their murders.

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2014-10-17/uk-police-to-travel-to-thailand-to-probe-tourist-murders/

The British are good at this, providing they have unrestricted access. I suspect preparatory work was established some time ago, and that they have firm evidence with which to work with now.

More to follow I am sure...

[englishoak]

Good to see things have been progressing nicely.

now the ball is rolling

[kaobang]

Police to examine DNA and duress claims in Thai case

British detectives travelling to investigate the backpacker murders in Thailand are expected to focus on independent checks of DNA samples central to the case against two Burmese men accused of the crime and their claims to have been mistreated.

Diplomatic sources said Thailand's military ruler accepted the sending of a delegation to investigate the killing of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller when pressed on the issue by David Cameron during their summit meeting.

Obviously it is for the Thai authorities to lead and carry out that judicial process. But it is important that it is fair and transparent and that both of the families can be reassured that it is the murderers that have been brought to justice.

There are two areas we are particularly concerned about. One is the verification of the DNA samples of the suspects, making sure there is further independent verification. And the second is the investigation into allegations of mistreatment of the suspects. What the PM secured this morning was agreement from the Thai PM that we can send some British police investigators to Kho Tao to work with the Royal Thai Police on this.

– DIPLOMATIC SOURCE

i would like to see the face of that police head right now..Somyot or whatever is the name

"Foreign countries are not permitted to have investigators look into crimes that occur in Thailand, as that would be considered a violation of the country's sovereignty, Police chief Pol General Somyot Pumpunmuang said yesterday. "

Edited October 17, 2014 by kaobang

[ukrules]

what an insult!

getting a dressing down by a junior minister!

Yes, the Brits know how to play the game - British diplomats were wheeling and dealing hundreds of years before the Thai's even knew what diplomacy meant and they're still not upto speed.

Never heard of Kosa Pan then?

I think you underestimate just how long British diplomats have been out there meddling in the affairs of other countries.

[sustento]

what an insult!

getting a dressing down by a junior minister!

Yes, the Brits know how to play the game - British diplomats were wheeling and dealing hundreds of years before the Thai's even knew what diplomacy meant and they're still not upto speed.

Never heard of Kosa Pan then?

I think you underestimate just how long British diplomats have been out there meddling in the affairs of other countries.

If the Thais are such poor diplomats how do you explain the fact that they've used diplomacy to avoid becoming yet another western colony like all their near neighbours have at some time in the past?

[hawker9000]

Yes, the Brits know how to play the game - British diplomats were wheeling and dealing hundreds of years before the Thai's even knew what diplomacy meant and they're still not upto speed.

Never heard of Kosa Pan then?

I think you underestimate just how long British diplomats have been out there meddling in the affairs of other countries.

If the Thais are such poor diplomats how do you explain the fact that they've used diplomacy to avoid becoming yet another western colony like all their near neighbours have at some time in the past?

You're not paying enough attention to verb tense. "Are" vs "were". I'm not sure Thai diplomacy is accomplishing much these days (much like U.S. diplomacy...), but historically they quite adroitly avoided the colonization you're speaking of. Past. Present. Two different things. While I believe the British demands were reasonable under the circumstances, this HAS to be at least a small embarrassment for Thailand, and a bigger embarrassment for the Thai police establishment. I'm sure however that's not really the British intent, and I believe effort will actually be made to avoid any unnecessary further embarrassment for anyone in the course of their investigation (to the extent that it CAN be avoided; sometimes incompetence & deliberate misconduct are difficult to paper over).

[spidermike007]

Does anyone really think Thailand and the RTP really care about what Briton thinks and does? The ONLY thing that makes them concerned is lack of tourists and the money that follows.

That is almost the same thing. Most Thai people lack the quality of introspection, and that retards progress and makes it difficult for the country to move in a forward direction. It works effectively when a great degree of embarrassment is brought to bear. The shame, and the thought of having egg on the face is a compelling factor when it comes to forcing many Thais to improve, or progress. So, by causing this embarrassment, the Brits are doing Thailand a great service. Whatever it takes to improve this place. It appears that kind of work will not be done because it is the right thing to do. It will be done because they look bad, in the eyes of the world. We all know how desperately this country needs to rid itself of Koh Tao pirates, murderers, and blood sucking vampire families.