Yingluck's lawyer hit back at TDRI's Niphon

[Robby nz]

His point that no-one has yet been charged is valid........the race to impeach YL should really be running parallel with charges against others involved in this scheme.......but there still seems to be no will to go after the people that caused this. mess

No one has been charged ?

That's a lie .

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/757870 -ex-commerce-ministers-secretary-faces-charges-over-fake-g-to-g-rice-deals/ DSI probes graft allegations in govt's rice-pledging scheme

BANGKOK: -- The National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) has decided to lodge malfeasance and other criminal charges against former secretary of ex-commerce minister Boonsong Teriyapirom for alleged involvement in fake government-to-government rice deals with two Chinese state enterprises.

It has also been reported in the BKK post on 16/1/14 that ex commerce minister Boonsong Teriyapirom and ex deputy commerce minister Poom Sarapol have been charged along with 13 others including a former director of the external trade Dept regards the non existent G2G deals to sell rice to China.

This was also reported in Pattayatoday

Because of Thai visa rules I cant quote from or post the whole article. however if you google 'Yingluck to be probed, ex-ministers charged on rice scheme' you can read for yourself.

[bangrak]

Thai at heart post # 5

Please note, nowhere did the 1tn baht make any mention of misappropriation. This subsidy was so big and for so long, it achieved this without any significant theft.

And as yet, not probably a baht to Yingluck herself. So.

Good luck to the prosecution.

Should be an easy matter to find the money trail to Dubai as opposed to little sister shouldn't it?

Um, considering Thailand conducts international business through the international clearing system, I am amazed they haven't found this gargantuan theft already.

Isn't 1tn baht enough to.make the Burj Dubai fall over.

You think the shins would actually be so stupid to steal from this?what did they say last week after the 3mn tonne scaremongering. 100,000 tonnes from 58,000,000 purchase. O.0? How much missing?

They have NOTHING to pin on her directly. Nothing.

Nooo, of course not, the Shins are not stupid at all, this Thai-Chinese clan could not have accumulated such an immense wealth in such a short time when they would not be, very, erm, 'clever', and maybe sometimes 'a bit' dishonest too . But, you know, the more you eat, the more your appetite grows... And their hunger for money has grown sooo big, and their power has got sooo strong, they can not stop themselves anymore from stealing as much as they can from this country that made them rich, and they believe nobody can reach to them to do anything against them, anymore. There ARE many millions of STUPID people though, starting with the ones not able to see how evil the Shins are and supporting them blindly, and the huge mass of the ones who see the evil but don't even try to stop it. Those people are the true Thais, and it is 'the system', generations old, the old and new 'elites' together, the Shins being members of both, that makes and keeps them STUPID, because that's the best way to use, to abuse, them!

[Tim1980]

well nothing much will be changed as we all know, those folks say so many things and just do nothing but all they do is to keep their face and chair for as long as they can thats why they brag a lot on media. all are same and should there be justice there shall be none left without charges because they are all same....

[Gunna]

Thai at heart post # 5

Please note, nowhere did the 1tn baht make any mention of misappropriation. This subsidy was so big and for so long, it achieved this without any significant theft.

And as yet, not probably a baht to Yingluck herself. So.

Good luck to the prosecution.

Should be an easy matter to find the money trail to Dubai as opposed to little sister shouldn't it?

Um, considering Thailand conducts international business through the international clearing system, I am amazed they haven't found this gargantuan theft already.

Isn't 1tn baht enough to.make the Burj Dubai fall over.

You think the shins would actually be so stupid to steal from this?what did they say last week after the 3mn tonne scaremongering. 100,000 tonnes from 58,000,000 purchase. O.0? How much missing?

They have NOTHING to pin on her directly. Nothing.

Only the promotion and miss-management of a scam that cost Thailand up to 1tn baht. That's before the cost of the school tablet scam and the first car buyers scam. It's amazing Thailand Treasury still has any more left after these 3 grand thefts.

[bangrak]

Thai at heart post # 5

Please note, nowhere did the 1tn baht make any mention of misappropriation. This subsidy was so big and for so long, it achieved this without any significant theft.

And as yet, not probably a baht to Yingluck herself. So.

Good luck to the prosecution.

Should be an easy matter to find the money trail to Dubai as opposed to little sister shouldn't it?

Yes it should.....................if it existed. Do you, or anyone of importance, know the details of this trail, or does it only exist in your imagination and wish fulfilment fantasies?

Oooh, but you are someone 'of importance'! And as you are ab absurdum telling us there was nothing wrong, everything was cosher, nobody will dare to put your word into question... Isn't that the way it works in Thailand? Isn't that the way it has worked so well for the Shins? Till recently.

By the way, I'm sure you collect all press releases about your master and all his creations, so, no doubt you will remember the number of occasions Dr Thaksin was present in foreign countries at the time the Thai his 'government' was 'negotiating' 'G to G' rice sales, you know the ones nobody could have any information about, and the ones which never existed too, and that we were told by spokespersons he was 'assisting', 'supporting', 'lobbying', etc. in those rice 'deals', that he had even somewhere been put in charge by 'the government' to realise such 'deals' and his 'help' was so much appreciated? While it would not even come up to the last 'buffalo' in the most remote 'red village' that Thaksin did that all for nothing, you are trying to convince us you, yourself, do believe that? Come on, 'fab'! And mind you, my guess is there might well be one or another bill for 'expenses' waiting to be found in some file, and some records of 'commissions' paid abroad on those mirific 'deals' going to be checked in some computers...! Who knows, maybe the bad people who want to hurt (in your imagination) your dear Shins & Co. already got this evidence! The only question would then be: are they going to accept the deal the Shins will present (or already have?), or to play honest...?

Edited November 7, 2014 by bangrak

[Baerboxer]

Thai at heart post # 5

Please note, nowhere did the 1tn baht make any mention of misappropriation. This subsidy was so big and for so long, it achieved this without any significant theft.

And as yet, not probably a baht to Yingluck herself. So.

Good luck to the prosecution.

Should be an easy matter to find the money trail to Dubai as opposed to little sister shouldn't it?

Um, considering Thailand conducts international business through the international clearing system, I am amazed they haven't found this gargantuan theft already.

Isn't 1tn baht enough to.make the Burj Dubai fall over.

You think the shins would actually be so stupid to steal from this?what did they say last week after the 3mn tonne scaremongering. 100,000 tonnes from 58,000,000 purchase. O.0? How much missing?

They have NOTHING to pin on her directly. Nothing.

I would imagine the Shins and their businesses have quite elaborate money moving mechanisms with cash held in several countries and denominations.

There has been several instances of Shin family members traveling with large amounts of luggage, very large amounts. You would hope that outward and inward Customs Officers would be checking to ensure money and asset carrying rules were not being breached. Somehow I doubt first class VIP billionaire family members have to follow the same rules as the rest of us.

There were money trails to dear Yinggy in 2010. She made some very large unexplained cash withdrawals. Although, as usual there was no will to pursue this. the Shins would've learnt to be more careful.

Stupid no - greedy yes. And greed usually trumps intelligence which is why so many crooks get caught.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Baerboxer

[AleG]

Thai at heart post # 5

Please note, nowhere did the 1tn baht make any mention of misappropriation. This subsidy was so big and for so long, it achieved this without any significant theft.

And as yet, not probably a baht to Yingluck herself. So.

Good luck to the prosecution.

Should be an easy matter to find the money trail to Dubai as opposed to little sister shouldn't it?

Um, considering Thailand conducts international business through the international clearing system, I am amazed they haven't found this gargantuan theft already.

Isn't 1tn baht enough to.make the Burj Dubai fall over.

You think the shins would actually be so stupid to steal from this?what did they say last week after the 3mn tonne scaremongering. 100,000 tonnes from 58,000,000 purchase. O.0? How much missing?

They have NOTHING to pin on her directly. Nothing.

I would imagine the Shins and their businesses have quite elaborate money moving mechanisms with cash held in several countries and denominations.

There has been several instances of Shin family members traveling with large amounts of luggage, very large amounts. You would hope that outward and inward Customs Officers would be checking to ensure money and asset carrying rules were not being breached. Somehow I doubt first class VIP billionaire family members have to follow the same rules as the rest of us.

There were money trails to dear Yinggy in 2010. She made some very large unexplained cash withdrawals. Although, as usual there was no will to pursue this. the Shins would've learnt to be more careful.

Stupid no - greedy yes. And greed usually trumps intelligence which is why so many crooks get caught.

No need to imagine anything, just search for "Thaksin Ample Rich" and you'll see.

[mikemac]

So the public are to be left in the dark as to the actual loss or misappropriation of the funds for the rice pledging scam scheme.

Indeed the truth is a creature with both a loud bark and a painful bite.

So if we set the standards by the comments made by Mr Norawich, any and all comments he or his team may make that are designed or aimed at defending his client are also deliberate attempts to both mislead and misinform the public?

Please note, nowhere did the 1tn baht make any mention of misappropriation. This subsidy was so big and for so long, it achieved this without any significant theft.

And as yet, not probably a baht to Yingluck herself. So.

Good luck to the prosecution.

""And as yet, not probably a baht to Yingluck herself. So""

Is stupidity a defence?? Mai kow-jai!

Good luck. So far, not very much hard evidence and its not like they are sprinting to court is it. Yingluck has them by the balls and she knows it.

Her lawyers will eat them all alive. This is where the yellow desire to keep the status quo hits reality. The shins will not lie down and no cooked up numbers will win.

They need bank accounts and hard numbers. A the rest is talk. Oooh. They lost money. Strewth, thats what politicians do

..................................."Oooh. They lost money. Strewth, thats what politicians do"..................................

What a shame you are not on her defense team. With that way of thinking she would get 20 years without parole, or shopping.

[Baerboxer]

So the public are to be left in the dark as to the actual loss or misappropriation of the funds for the rice pledging scam scheme.

Indeed the truth is a creature with both a loud bark and a painful bite.

So if we set the standards by the comments made by Mr Norawich, any and all comments he or his team may make that are designed or aimed at defending his client are also deliberate attempts to both mislead and misinform the public?

Please note, nowhere did the 1tn baht make any mention of misappropriation. This subsidy was so big and for so long, it achieved this without any significant theft.

And as yet, not probably a baht to Yingluck herself. So.

Good luck to the prosecution.

""And as yet, not probably a baht to Yingluck herself. So""

Is stupidity a defence?? Mai kow-jai!

Good luck. So far, not very much hard evidence and its not like they are sprinting to court is it. Yingluck has them by the balls and she knows it.

Her lawyers will eat them all alive. This is where the yellow desire to keep the status quo hits reality. The shins will not lie down and no cooked up numbers will win.

They need bank accounts and hard numbers. A the rest is talk. Oooh. They lost money. Strewth, thats what politicians do

If, as you think, she has them by the balls, why isn't she the one sprinting to court. Not only clear her name but also make them look foolish and loose credibility.

Instead, her lawyers try to delay. stop it from proceeding, tell little white lies as PTP always do, etc.

Could it be that She is shit scared that something has been found that she knows has been hidden? She pissed off with big brother living it up so hasn't read all the files (again, her usual lack of diligence). Maybe she's got a whiff they have found something.

The Shins would be all over this, mouthing off and spouting injustice, if they really thought nothing could come out.

[Dogmatix]

Of course it is not fair. Anyone who wins an election (and some who don't) should be allowed to rip off as much as they like from the taxpayer.

BTW what has happened to the criminal prosecution of YL the NACC was trying to initiate and when will they get round to a civil suit to reclaim the missing trillion?

Furious negotiations must be ongoing as we speak. Thailand has the best justice money can buy.

[longway]

Yingluck's lawyer hit back at TDRI's Niphon

BANGKOK: -- Former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatras lawyer Mr Norawich Laleng today (Thursday) hit back at Mr Niphon Puapongsakorn Thailand Development Research Institute accusing the latter of having ulterior motive for the release of figures of estimated losses from the rice pledging scheme.

Based on the governments findings that 80 percent of about 18 million tonnes of rice in stockpiles are of poor quality, Mr Niphon said the rice pledging scheme would incur a total loss of over 900 billion baht if all the rice are to be disposed of in ten years.

MrNorawich said that MrNiphons deliberate release of the figures was intended to guide the public in order to build pressure on the joint committee of Office of the Attorney-General and the NACC which is yet to decide whetherMsYingluck should be indicted on direlection of duty or not.

The lawyer also questioned the reliability of the figures pointing out that, so far, there have not been any solid evidences of corruption and no officials have been charged with corruption or malfeasance in office in connection with the rice scheme.

He also called Mr Niphon to stop guiding the public to influence the case against Ms Yingluck.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/yinglucks-lawyer-hit-back-tdris-niphon/

-- Thai PBS 2014-11-07

Yes sums it up. The last thing they want is the general public to have any knowledge and influence. Cant they loot the public coffers in peace and quiet? Whats the point of winning an election otherwise.

[bernd1616]

>He also called Mr Niphon to stop guiding the public to influence the case against Ms Yingluck.<quote

We don't need to be influenced, we are fully aware of the fact, that your client and her partners in crime robbed the country blind!!

always funny if blind people like you acusing others without any proof they did robbing the country blind. what you did is nothing else as spreading rumors you perhaps heard from the yellows. but if i`m wrong, feel free to post your proof here ;-)

[tbthailand]

Thai at heart post # 5

Please note, nowhere did the 1tn baht make any mention of misappropriation. This subsidy was so big and for so long, it achieved this without any significant theft.

And as yet, not probably a baht to Yingluck herself. So.

Good luck to the prosecution.

Should be an easy matter to find the money trail to Dubai as opposed to little sister shouldn't it?

find it then, if it's so simple.

[ramrod711]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think she was charged with dereliction of duty or something similar, not theft. The truth is she was in charge, there are only 3 ways that can explain such a massive loss on her watch. 1. She knew that there was corruption all along the line and did nothing. 2. She was so negligent that she was unaware of anything. 3. She is stupid

Remember this one thing, about one year before the sh#t hit the fan, her finance minister Kittitrat said that the scheme was not financially sustainable and should be stopped. Was Yingluck aware of that. or was she blissfully ignorant of that as well. You do the people of this country a disservice by defending her, at least her lawyer has an excuse....he is getting paid.

Ramrod,

At what point does a scheme become a loss make to an extent where a PM is punished for dereliction of duty? Is there a financial amount?etc surely its very arbitrary. Is the 40bn pay out by the Junta which is a straight up payment with nothing in return an okay loss? Is the army buying aircraft carriers negligent? what about an order for 2700 kekler hochs etc etc etc the list goes on and on. Okay they are smaller amounts, but at what point does it become okay to take action against a PM?

I am ambivalent as to whether she should be or will be punished, all i would like to see is some clarity and fairness in the application of laws.

As far as I am concerned she was negligent at best. Any other cases that arise would have to be addressed on an individual basis. Without rancor or a wish for confrontation, I would ask you a simple question. If you had stock in a corporation and a loss on such a massive scale took place, there was proof that the CFO had warned the CEO that it was going to happen, and the CEO did nothing to mitigate the loss, who would you hold responsible? Would you stand up at the stockholders meeting and blame the mail room staff? Would you want to see heads roll, or would you be philosophic about your lost money and give the CEO another chance? Please don't give me the ridiculous argument that the scheme was designed to lose money, so it's a massive success.

[tbthailand]

For <deleted>'s sake! More barefaced lies and disinformation from the PTP camp.

If you want to defend Yingluck, release YOUR facts and figures collated from the oh so successful, self-sustaining rice scheme which you've collected over the last 4 years ... except you can't, cos you never administered it, oversaw it or measured the success/failure of it (except in your heads), and that's the problem ...

And this ...

"The lawyer also questioned the reliability of the figures pointing out that, so far, there have not been any solid evidences of corruption and no officials have been charged with corruption or malfeasance in office in connection with the rice scheme."

So, on that basis they are claiming that it's all rubbish because no one as yet has been charged with anything, so no harm, no foul ... I'll remember that defense next time ... "I'm not guilty of murder cos no one else has been charged with it yet" ...

I think the lawyer's point is that it is not TDRI's place to be releasing figures which they themselves only speculate to be possible. The TDRI is clearly a royalist-aligned quote-unquote thinktank and 'research group', It would be like listening to the Hertiage Foundation in the US. No one there would take that as anything but partisan nonsense.

The TDRI is not acting in any official capacity here. But they can run (from Yingluck's perspective) a dandy smear campaign.

The whole rice-thing is Koh Tao-ish in its level of professionalism and transparency

[than]

Seems some former high figure are not happy when true reveal

Rice pledge scheme purpose was only to cheating farmers

YL knew the problem, she has been warm about this she do nothing, now she will pay for this, for the death of some farmers

[longway]

^ ^the function of the TDRI is to conduct policy research and publish its findings; thats it's job. Its why it exists.

Edited November 7, 2014 by longway

[Robby nz]

Thai at heart post # 5

Please note, nowhere did the 1tn baht make any mention of misappropriation. This subsidy was so big and for so long, it achieved this without any significant theft.

And as yet, not probably a baht to Yingluck herself. So.

Good luck to the prosecution.

Should be an easy matter to find the money trail to Dubai as opposed to little sister shouldn't it?

Um, considering Thailand conducts international business through the international clearing system, I am amazed they haven't found this gargantuan theft already.

Isn't 1tn baht enough to.make the Burj Dubai fall over.

You think the shins would actually be so stupid to steal from this?what did they say last week after the 3mn tonne scaremongering. 100,000 tonnes from 58,000,000 purchase. O.0? How much missing?

They have NOTHING to pin on her directly. Nothing.

I know you can post some good stuff but you have been slipping badly lately.

The 100k tons is missing from the 18 million tons in storage at present. And it may well be more than 100k as the full report is not out as yet. And you should note that is actually disappeared, not deteriorated to dust, been destroyed in fire or flood but actually gone without explanation.

What has gone missing from the total purchased is yet to be determined. We know that there are other lots that have disappeared over the life of the scheme (there have been convictions and other charges laid) so the total could well be the 2+ million tons speculated.

You say they have nothing to pin on her, well someone was negligent in the running of the scheme and it is normal anywhere for the head of an organization, even a Govt, to be held responsible for failures or neglect within that organization.

Even with taking into consideration that she was PM at the time, as she put herself in the position of chair of the rice policy committee that neglect lies squarely at her door and that is at present what she is being accused of.

[mike324]

>He also called Mr Niphon to stop guiding the public to influence the case against Ms Yingluck.<quote

We don't need to be influenced, we are fully aware of the fact, that your client and her partners in crime robbed the country blind!!

always funny if blind people like you acusing others without any proof they did robbing the country blind. what you did is nothing else as spreading rumors you perhaps heard from the yellows. but if i`m wrong, feel free to post your proof here ;-)

I think if you go back and read the news from previous years, Yingluck even admitted publicly that there is corruption involved and she will look into it, they did look into it and found out some rice millers were corrupted, and that's as far as they gone with the investigation.

I can also dig up the video clip where Thailands riches man owner of CP made a statement during PTP's campaign saying if Thailand can't sell the rice, he will personally buy it all. He has been pretty quiet regarding the rice scheme.

[Thai at Heart]

It would help if everyone looked at the numbers and realised that the losses are what they are without anyone nicking a baht.

There has been no huge hole found in the stock. There is no massive theft. They bought it,paid for it, put it in a warehouse, paid for that, shipped some, paid for that, and still have 18mn tonnes that they are paying to store.

The govt has spent money, but it is not a loss as in unprofitable. This is govt. Govt does not aim for profit. Money has been spent, every baht of which has been given to Thai, and which has actually been advsnced over many years in the govt borrowing.

So what you are saying, is that any government, previous, current or future, can act with impunity just because they are government??

With that point of view, the present non-elected government might as well stay in power forever, because with no accountability what is the need for elections??

That is exactly what governments do. Spending money within the law isn't illegal as far as I can see.

In setting up the scheme, which laws were broken by Yingluck? Brown bailed out the banks, politically horrendous, no kawd broken. The USA dispereses billions to its farmers or subsidies. No laws broken.

Just because you don't like the way a govt spends its money or the way it does it, doesn't make it illegal. They are trying to get her for not preventing corruption or damage to the country.

There isn't a prime minister in the world who can defend this accusation in the way it is framed. Fox news despises Obama because he is socialist. That doesn't make his policies criminal.

Someone said negligent. She will say that the market weng against them and that is why the rice didn't get sold. They won't stick it on her personally, unless they have a load of conflicting statements from her own cabinet people showing they informed her of her folly and begged her to stop.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[longway]

It would help if everyone looked at the numbers and realised that the losses are what they are without anyone nicking a baht.

There has been no huge hole found in the stock. There is no massive theft. They bought it,paid for it, put it in a warehouse, paid for that, shipped some, paid for that, and still have 18mn tonnes that they are paying to store.

The govt has spent money, but it is not a loss as in unprofitable. This is govt. Govt does not aim for profit. Money has been spent, every baht of which has been given to Thai, and which has actually been advsnced over many years in the govt borrowing.

So what you are saying, is that any government, previous, current or future, can act with impunity just because they are government??

With that point of view, the present non-elected government might as well stay in power forever, because with no accountability what is the need for elections??

That is exactly what governments do. Spending money within the law isn't illegal as far as I can see.

In setting up the scheme, which laws were broken by Yingluck? Brown bailed out the banks, politically horrendous, no kawd broken. The USA dispereses billions to its farmers or subsidies. No laws broken.

Just because you don't like the way a govt spends its money or the way it does it, doesn't make it illegal. They are trying to get her for not preventing corruption or damage to the country.

There isn't a prime minister in the world who can defend this accusation in the way it is framed. Fox news despises Obama because he is socialist. That doesn't make his policies criminal.

Someone said negligent. She will say that the market weng against them and that is why the rice didn't get sold. They won't stick it on her personally, unless they have a load of conflicting statements from her own cabinet people showing they informed her of her folly and begged her to stop.

This is nonsense, it was sold to the public as a 500 billion baht self financing revolving fund, and despite many warnings not to proceed as governments should not speculate on market futures with public funds, it went ahead with the scam. Then even when it was clear rice prices could not be manipulated in the way it claimed they still persisted in the scam for another 2 years, in the end they could not even pay farmers for their grain, basically stealing it. They did not even bother storing the grain properly, how anyone can claim this is not a very clear cut case of incompetence and negligence is beyond me.

Pinning corruption on anyone will always be difficult, however negligence is a crime, deliberate or not, btw the yingluck government made repeated assurances all was fine with the scam even it was falling apart around them. I know lying is 'what governments do' but that is also a crime.

Edited November 7, 2014 by longway

[Robby nz]

It would help if everyone looked at the numbers and realised that the losses are what they are without anyone nicking a baht.

There has been no huge hole found in the stock. There is no massive theft. They bought it,paid for it, put it in a warehouse, paid for that, shipped some, paid for that, and still have 18mn tonnes that they are paying to store.

The govt has spent money, but it is not a loss as in unprofitable. This is govt. Govt does not aim for profit. Money has been spent, every baht of which has been given to Thai, and which has actually been advsnced over many years in the govt borrowing.

So what you are saying, is that any government, previous, current or future, can act with impunity just because they are government??

With that point of view, the present non-elected government might as well stay in power forever, because with no accountability what is the need for elections??

That is exactly what governments do. Spending money within the law isn't illegal as far as I can see.

In setting up the scheme, which laws were broken by Yingluck? Brown bailed out the banks, politically horrendous, no kawd broken. The USA dispereses billions to its farmers or subsidies. No laws broken.

Just because you don't like the way a govt spends its money or the way it does it, doesn't make it illegal. They are trying to get her for not preventing corruption or damage to the country.

There isn't a prime minister in the world who can defend this accusation in the way it is framed. Fox news despises Obama because he is socialist. That doesn't make his policies criminal.

Someone said negligent. She will say that the market weng against them and that is why the rice didn't get sold. They won't stick it on her personally, unless they have a load of conflicting statements from her own cabinet people showing they informed her of her folly and begged her to stop.

So you think that it would have had to be her own cabinet that would be the only ones whose warnings would hold any sway ?

Not even :

2013-07-03

Commerce Ministry lambasted for corruption in rice purchases

Corruption has penetrated every step of the governments rice purchase scheme as the Commerce Ministry has refused to disclose information on rice sales, according to a senior Finance Ministry official.

http://www.thaivisa....rice-purchases/

Or when she admitted herself the scheme had lost $4.4 billion.

2013-06-20

Thailand's Ruinous Rice Subsidy

"On Wednesday Thailand agreed to cut the price it pays for farmers' rice crops by 20%, in what may be the first step in unwinding a disastrous rice subsidy program. This retreat won't undo the fiscal damage already done by the two-year-old scheme, which saw the government buy local rice harvests for as much as 50% above market rates and then fail to engineer a similar price hike globally. But it does provide a good lesson in the dangers of meddling with markets.

Earlier this week the government of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra admitted that its rice scheme had lost $4.4 billion for the 2011-12 growing season, a huge sum for a program sold as cost-neutral."

http://online.wsj.co...0631839748.html

Or that when the finance ministry warned of huge losses :

2013-06-18

Bt136 billion losses from rice subsidy in 2011/2012 crop

The Finance Ministry reported losses from the rice pledging scheme in the 2011/2012 harvest season at Bt136 billion, according to Minister to the Prime Minister’s Office Varathep Rattanakorn.

According to the sub-committee, the government spent Bt352 billion to buy 21.7 million tonnes of rice in the 2011/2012 crop while Bt156 billion worth of rice remains in the stockpiles and the sold volume was Bt59 billion, leaving net losses of Bt136.908 billion.

http://www.thaivisa....-20112012-crop/

Even though her commerce minister didn't know the extent of the loss :

2013-06-14

Calling in favours doesn't always work: Thai govt's rice-pledging scheme

Commerce Minister Boonsong Teriyapirom is still unable to say exactly how much money has been lost in the government's rice-pledging scheme, even though he dismissed the Bt260-billion estimate produced by the Finance Ministry's post-audit committee.

http://www.thaivisa....ledging-scheme/

Or when the finance ministry reported the loss :

2013-06-07

Cumulative Losses From Thaksin Govts' Farm Schemes Touch Almost Bt400 Billion

The Finance Ministry's Post-Audit Committee on the Rice Pledging Scheme revealed yesterday that the government of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra had overspent the budget for the rice-pledging project - Bt661.22 billion, well in excess of the Bt500 billion earmarked for the project.

http://www.thaivisa....-bt400-billion/

You should note that was when the lady who presented the report was sacked (shoot the messenger).

Or warnings from the business sector :

2013-04-18

Thailand's Farmer-Friendly Rice Subsidy Backfires

http://www.businessw...bsidy-backfires

Would you like me to carry on and fill the page with the warnings she ignored from people like the World Bank and IMF or is that enough ?

[Robespiere]

I would imagine the Shins and their businesses have quite elaborate money moving mechanisms with cash held in several countries and denominations.

There has been several instances of Shin family members traveling with large amounts of luggage, very large amounts. You would hope that outward and inward Customs Officers would be checking to ensure money and asset carrying rules were not being breached. Somehow I doubt first class VIP billionaire family members have to follow the same rules as the rest of us.

There were money trails to dear Yinggy in 2010. She made some very large unexplained cash withdrawals. Although, as usual there was no will to pursue this. the Shins would've learnt to be more careful.

Stupid no - greedy yes. And greed usually trumps intelligence which is why so many crooks get caught.

No need to imagine anything, just search for "Thaksin Ample Rich" and you'll see.

poppycock

[Thai at Heart]

It would help if everyone looked at the numbers and realised that the losses are what they are without anyone nicking a baht.

There has been no huge hole found in the stock. There is no massive theft. They bought it,paid for it, put it in a warehouse, paid for that, shipped some, paid for that, and still have 18mn tonnes that they are paying to store.

The govt has spent money, but it is not a loss as in unprofitable. This is govt. Govt does not aim for profit. Money has been spent, every baht of which has been given to Thai, and which has actually been advsnced over many years in the govt borrowing.

So what you are saying, is that any government, previous, current or future, can act with impunity just because they are government??

With that point of view, the present non-elected government might as well stay in power forever, because with no accountability what is the need for elections??

That is exactly what governments do. Spending money within the law isn't illegal as far as I can see.

In setting up the scheme, which laws were broken by Yingluck? Brown bailed out the banks, politically horrendous, no kawd broken. The USA dispereses billions to its farmers or subsidies. No laws broken.

Just because you don't like the way a govt spends its money or the way it does it, doesn't make it illegal. They are trying to get her for not preventing corruption or damage to the country.

There isn't a prime minister in the world who can defend this accusation in the way it is framed. Fox news despises Obama because he is socialist. That doesn't make his policies criminal.

Someone said negligent. She will say that the market weng against them and that is why the rice didn't get sold. They won't stick it on her personally, unless they have a load of conflicting statements from her own cabinet people showing they informed her of her folly and begged her to stop.

This is nonsense, it was sold to the public as a 500 billion baht self financing revolving fund, and despite many warnings not to proceed as governments should not speculate on market futures with public funds, it went ahead with the scam. Then even when it was clear rice prices could not be manipulated in the way it claimed they still persisted in the scam for another 2 years, in the end they could not even pay farmers for their grain, basically stealing it. They did not even bother storing the grain properly, how anyone can claim this is not a very clear cut case of incompetence and negligence is beyond me.

Pinning corruption on anyone will always be difficult, however negligence is a crime, deliberate or not, btw the yingluck government made repeated assurances all was fine with the scam even it was falling apart around them. I know lying is 'what governments do' but that is also a crime.

It was sold to the public as a rice subsidy scheme. The fact that it failed to recoup the funds from sales, still doesn't make it illegal.

The current govt is extending money now. It cannot be that one policy is good, the other bad. It cannot be a grey judgement due to scale.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[ramrod711]

Thai at heart post # 5

Please note, nowhere did the 1tn baht make any mention of misappropriation. This subsidy was so big and for so long, it achieved this without any significant theft.

And as yet, not probably a baht to Yingluck herself. So.

Good luck to the prosecution.

Should be an easy matter to find the money trail to Dubai as opposed to little sister shouldn't it?

Um, considering Thailand conducts international business through the international clearing system, I am amazed they haven't found this gargantuan theft already.

Isn't 1tn baht enough to.make the Burj Dubai fall over.

You think the shins would actually be so stupid to steal from this?what did they say last week after the 3mn tonne scaremongering. 100,000 tonnes from 58,000,000 purchase. O.0? How much missing?

They have NOTHING to pin on her directly. Nothing.

On the face of it you appear to be the perfect voter, a true cynic. No expectations of honesty, accountability, performance or value for money. At what point would you complain about the loss of tax payer funds, when it's all gone, 50% gone or never, just write it off as "that's what governments do", unbelievable. I expect your personal slogan would be " The government can piss away all the money there is and leave the treasury bare. I pledge to never complain".

[Robby nz]

It would help if everyone looked at the numbers and realised that the losses are what they are without anyone nicking a baht.

There has been no huge hole found in the stock. There is no massive theft. They bought it,paid for it, put it in a warehouse, paid for that, shipped some, paid for that, and still have 18mn tonnes that they are paying to store.

The govt has spent money, but it is not a loss as in unprofitable. This is govt. Govt does not aim for profit. Money has been spent, every baht of which has been given to Thai, and which has actually been advsnced over many years in the govt borrowing.

So what you are saying, is that any government, previous, current or future, can act with impunity just because they are government??

With that point of view, the present non-elected government might as well stay in power forever, because with no accountability what is the need for elections??

That is exactly what governments do. Spending money within the law isn't illegal as far as I can see.

In setting up the scheme, which laws were broken by Yingluck? Brown bailed out the banks, politically horrendous, no kawd broken. The USA dispereses billions to its farmers or subsidies. No laws broken.

Just because you don't like the way a govt spends its money or the way it does it, doesn't make it illegal. They are trying to get her for not preventing corruption or damage to the country.

There isn't a prime minister in the world who can defend this accusation in the way it is framed. Fox news despises Obama because he is socialist. That doesn't make his policies criminal.

Someone said negligent. She will say that the market weng against them and that is why the rice didn't get sold. They won't stick it on her personally, unless they have a load of conflicting statements from her own cabinet people showing they informed her of her folly and begged her to stop.

This is nonsense, it was sold to the public as a 500 billion baht self financing revolving fund, and despite many warnings not to proceed as governments should not speculate on market futures with public funds, it went ahead with the scam. Then even when it was clear rice prices could not be manipulated in the way it claimed they still persisted in the scam for another 2 years, in the end they could not even pay farmers for their grain, basically stealing it. They did not even bother storing the grain properly, how anyone can claim this is not a very clear cut case of incompetence and negligence is beyond me.

Pinning corruption on anyone will always be difficult, however negligence is a crime, deliberate or not, btw the yingluck government made repeated assurances all was fine with the scam even it was falling apart around them. I know lying is 'what governments do' but that is also a crime.

It was sold to the public as a rice subsidy scheme. The fact that it failed to recoup the funds from sales, still doesn't make it illegal.

The current govt is extending money now. It cannot be that one policy is good, the other bad. It cannot be a grey judgement due to scale.

Wrong again TaH the previous poster is correct : "it was sold to the public as a 500 billion baht self financing revolving fund".

The present Govt is expending money in an attempt to dig the farmers out of the deep debt hole the scheme has left them in.

The debt the country has been left in will take longer to sort out.

[martinhp]

>He also called Mr Niphon to stop guiding the public to influence the case against Ms Yingluck.<quote

We don't need to be influenced, we are fully aware of the fact, that your client and her partners in crime robbed the country blind!!

As we all except you know the truth is not delivered by the PM if he don't want

And if they don't proof it 100% there are nothing and the thai can again elect her which they properly do

And as you don't understand this.........makes you ??????

Especially under the consideration of the first line it means not ever possible for the PM who is a dictator to convict any as he is the biggest criminal especially when the most thais want yingluck not PM

So you better step up your game and learn about democracy it's not always as it seam

[Eric Loh]

Thai at heart post # 5

Please note, nowhere did the 1tn baht make any mention of misappropriation. This subsidy was so big and for so long, it achieved this without any significant theft.

And as yet, not probably a baht to Yingluck herself. So.

Good luck to the prosecution.

Should be an easy matter to find the money trail to Dubai as opposed to little sister shouldn't it?

Um, considering Thailand conducts international business through the international clearing system, I am amazed they haven't found this gargantuan theft already.

Isn't 1tn baht enough to.make the Burj Dubai fall over.

You think the shins would actually be so stupid to steal from this?what did they say last week after the 3mn tonne scaremongering. 100,000 tonnes from 58,000,000 purchase. O.0? How much missing?

They have NOTHING to pin on her directly. Nothing.

I would imagine the Shins and their businesses have quite elaborate money moving mechanisms with cash held in several countries and denominations.

There has been several instances of Shin family members traveling with large amounts of luggage, very large amounts. You would hope that outward and inward Customs Officers would be checking to ensure money and asset carrying rules were not being breached. Somehow I doubt first class VIP billionaire family members have to follow the same rules as the rest of us.

There were money trails to dear Yinggy in 2010. She made some very large unexplained cash withdrawals. Although, as usual there was no will to pursue this. the Shins would've learnt to be more careful.

Stupid no - greedy yes. And greed usually trumps intelligence which is why so many crooks get caught.

You spoke right. It is just something you imagine. You should be a material witness for the NACC who can use some of your investigative imagination.

[robblok]

It was sold as self financing, no budget was set aside for it. The deficit on the budget was already at the maximum allowable. So they did not want this in the budget. So yes its fraud and illigal as they knew they had to budget for it but did not.

It would have been ok if they budgeted it but they did not ans at every point try to deny the losses.

[Fat Haggis]

Thai at heart post # 5

Please note, nowhere did the 1tn baht make any mention of misappropriation. This subsidy was so big and for so long, it achieved this without any significant theft.

And as yet, not probably a baht to Yingluck herself. So.

Good luck to the prosecution.

Should be an easy matter to find the money trail to Dubai as opposed to little sister shouldn't it?

Except for the fact they can't find anyone's trails to arrest the ones with their fingers in the pie, most of the ones who will be found out are lower end ministers and rice buyers and producers with the odd miller thrown in.

Don't expect a link to Dubai to be found any time soon