Two Myanmar men accused of murders on Koh Tao tortured, rights panel says

[sweatalot]

What's next, arrest the police officers who do their job in closing the case? Stupid isn't it. Punish the good guys, while criminals walk free, just like Thaksin.

it's not about Thaksin but trust you to push yellow propaganda <snip>

No not about T.

He is just an outstanding example. One that everybody knows. More names could be added, of course.

[ianf]

Torture is not putting plastic bags on a suspects head. Torture is inflicting serious amounts of pain with hot irons, finger crushing pliers and beatings with clubs. This was just a Thailand style interrogation.

Unbelievable! Off course torture includes putting plastic bags over someone's head - once you've used the oxygen, you choke and die. You want the bags removed, so perhaps you 'confess' or give an indication that you will do so. Torture is not only inflicting serious amounts of pain. Torture is psychological too. Threatening your daghter or wife with gang rape, for example, is psychological torture. Thai-style interrogation includes copious amounts of torture. Please educate yourself.

[deecee10]

Anyone who has followed this case from the outset knows that it has been a massive shambles.

The police have no credibility left.

[sweatalot]

To 'know' they are innocent or guilty is to have 100% proof and myself or any other person that posts here have no such proof. Having said that this whole situation stinks and by the way it's been handled or should i say, mishandled, it looks like these boys may possibly be innocent. To be honest I don't see how the police can ' keep face ' after all this innocent or guilty. Maybe the only way is for the boys to be freed on bail pending a further 'fix' of the evidence and then for the authorities to look the other way as they go home to Burma. That way the police can say ' well we had them but they ran away' and the boys are not an embarrassment anymore. Case closed.

But all this still ignores the fact that 'if' they are innocent there are 3 murderers at least still loose somewhere and all the others who assisted them that will never be brought to trial. Quite frightening.

Maybe the best solution to wake everybody up here is for travel agents to make Kho Tao a 'no-go' area along with any other potential killing fields.

This is a nice country to live in with in the main, lovely people, but this drags Thailand in to the gutter.

Something must be done to bring those that are guilty, those that assisted them and those that falsified, lost or interfered with evidence to justice and quick.

Why is the PM so quiet? He has promised to get rid of corruption and here is a wonderful opportunity to make a big start. Maybe that is unfair and he is working quietly behind the scenes I don't know. But I hope someone is having a look. Someone who is very brave.

Many people who post here are critical of so many things about Thailand but I think that most of those criticisms are borne out of frustration at what goes on. We all recognise that this is a lovely place but we also see how it could be so much better if these issues were met head on and resolved and not brushed under any available carpet.

No world government and there police forces are perfect, far from it, I am British and I decided to leave the UK when our PM lied to the people and took us to war in Iraq to satisfy Bush. If they wanted to get rid of that maniac Saddam then just say were gonna get him don't lie to us.

Same applies here. Just tell the truth, the people will respect you for it

Come on Thailand make this the place to live it truly can be.

Agree with you. I just want to make it clear. We do not know if the B2 are innocent. But it seems very probable they are. Same as it seems very probable others who have been named alread but obviously not properly investigated are not.

[sweatalot]

Torture is not putting plastic bags on a suspects head. Torture is inflicting serious amounts of pain with hot irons, finger crushing pliers and beatings with clubs. This was just a Thailand style interrogation.

Unbelievable! Off course torture includes putting plastic bags over someone's head - once you've used the oxygen, you choke and die. You want the bags removed, so perhaps you 'confess' or give an indication that you will do so. Torture is not only inflicting serious amounts of pain. Torture is psychological too. Threatening your daghter or wife with gang rape, for example, is psychological torture. Thai-style interrogation includes copious amounts of torture. Please educate yourself.

I think you misunderstand BSJ. His post is ironic

[Reigntax]

They are 100% innocent, until they are proven to be 99% guilty. The same as any person awaiting trial.

[Soutpeel]

Torture is not putting plastic bags on a suspects head. Torture is inflicting serious amounts of pain with hot irons, finger crushing pliers and beatings with clubs. This was just a Thailand style interrogation.

Unbelievable! Off course torture includes putting plastic bags over someone's head - once you've used the oxygen, you choke and die. You want the bags removed, so perhaps you 'confess' or give an indication that you will do so. Torture is not only inflicting serious amounts of pain. Torture is psychological too. Threatening your daghter or wife with gang rape, for example, is psychological torture. Thai-style interrogation includes copious amounts of torture. Please educate yourself.

I think you misunderstand BSJ. His post is ironic

The vast majority of TV posters don't recognise irony or sarcasm when it stands up and slaps them around the head with a large fish

[Reigntax]

Given the obvious " it's us vs them" attitude of Thai society does anybody really have confidence in any past conviction or exoneration considering that you can buy you way out of a conviction and can therefore also buy the guaranteed conviction of another as well.

[Krataiboy]

Yet more questions raised than answered in yet another frustrating twist to this cack-handed Thai police investigation. Hearsay is not evidence and unless the missing film footage, the fate of the two accused - guilty of this horrendous crime or not - looks sealed.

[Manbing]

Surely the refusal to address complaints of torture, the missing cctv evidence amount to something close to a miscarriage of justice?

A more trustworthy police agency would be able (after all this time), to prove with witness statements and documentary evidence of the movements of suspects throughout the period before, during and after the crime. Key evidence would not have to be 'lost'.

If the police had a watertight case, if their behaviour had been exemplary, If the DNA evidence and the coffessions were definately kosher, then the police would have no problems presenting their case to the NHRC.

Lets not forget the confessions are flawed too, as Rumpole calls them 'verbals'.

"It was me govnur, sure I dun the rape, coz I woz 'horney'"

As someoneone else on this site pointed out recently, violence followed by rape with is a crime of violence, not sexual lust.

[spidermike007]

The one who should have been tortured is "Nomsod the terrible". He is the one who deserved the wrath of the police. But, since he is being protected, and the family is above the law, that is not going to happen. The rich, the powerful, the connected, and the elite are being protected by the Army with a vengeance. No matter what they say, they will leave them alone. The piglet families are free to commit any crime they choose to inflict on anybody they want. They are more powerful than a Duke in 17th century Britain.

Those poor Burmese guys are as innocent as the day is long.

[MrJohnson]

Was there ever any doubt that their confessions were elected through torture? Standard practice in Thailand.

[jacky54]

Should be case dismissed then- in any civilised country of course where the interests of justice come first

[HansIsaan]

Meanwhile on Koh Samui:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/777033-suspects-in-the-murder-of-a-46-year-old-german-man-in-samui-could-walk-free-on-tuesday/?utm_source=newsletter-20141117-0728&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

[Boa4004]

There are so many questions about this case... (Most likely will never be answered)

Isn't it ironic that another body has shown up? (Serial Killer?????)

I don't know if these boys are inocent or not... All I want to see is the truth being told and the killer/s paying for the crimes.

In my opinion, the world does not care if the killers are Thai, Cambodian, Ameriacan, African, Pink, Blue or Orange - JUSTICE is what the people want (for the sake of the poor victims and their families). Wish Thailand could see that and stop trying to protect their reputation.

[wilcopops]

....so the case is thrown out, right?

[Jean Pierre Jacquot]

Torture in Thai Police? Unimaginable, really unimaginable. Thai Police serves its people and are all law-abiding nice guys. They always tell us like this so it must be like this. I am sure.

[OmarZaidMD]

Torture or not. We all know those boys are innocent

Dunno for sure do we? My wife, retired Thai School Teacher and Traditional Lady to the Max, says young innocent looking Myanmar folks are often involved in heinous crimes out of desperation and general lack of qualms for being greedy. The young fruit-cake who took off for England knows something about all of this ... so i'm waiting for the dust to settle...

[hiller]

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What's next, arrest the police officers who do their job in closing the case? Stupid isn't it. Punish the good guys, while criminals walk free, just like Thaksin.

it's not about Thaksin but trust you to push yellow propaganda <snip>

Feel free to give us the rest of the names.

No not about T.

He is just an outstanding example. One that everybody knows. More names could be added, of course.

[larsjohnsson]

Torture of Mayanmar people is just a part of normal Thai happiness

[transam]

So these two Burmese guys went and "sorted" all the cctv stuff ...... ...........

[fxe1200]

So these two Burmese guys went and "sorted" all the cctv stuff ...... ...........

...but they could not destroy the complete data of the telephone usage of Nomrod, in that certain night.

[SolePurpose]

"We haven't been to Koh Tao. People who have been there tell us that in fact security cameras were widely available but after the crimes happened, no one knew where recordings from those cameras are. Those who agree to talk us don't dare to give much information. And they prefer to talk in a place outside Koh Tao," she said.

I think this part of the report is very interesting.

I also do wonder where are the recordings from the CCTV.......

[petedk]

You guys attacking BSJ, are you he wasn't being sarcastic? His last sentence would make it seem so. Poor taste and poor writing, but not callous, I think.

I agree with you. I read it as being sarcastic.

[A1Str8]

The whole world knows what happened, these people have been worried about losing face for the longest time but they seem to be working hard to lose it all. Now everyone is laughing at them and they are still trying to deny the obvious.

It's too lame to be truth.

[Baerboxer]

Torture or not. We all know those boys are innocent

do we?for sure?

Yes we do know for sure. From day 1 it was obvious to 99.9% of us.

Just like some know for sure there is no god and afterlife, whilst others know for sure there is.

How do you know for sure - your infallible gut feeling? You must win a lot of lotteries then.

Innocent or guilty - people can have opinions but very very few really know what happened on that terrible night. And they ain't posting the details on TVF, or FB for that matter.

[tingtong]

Torture is not putting plastic bags on a suspects head. Torture is inflicting serious amounts of pain with hot irons, finger crushing pliers and beatings with clubs. This was just a Thailand style interrogation.

Torture doesn't have to leave a scar. Waterboarding doesn't, putting a plastic bag over someone's head and cutting off their oxygen supply doesn't. Torture is whatever causes terror and fear off death. Locking me in a room with venomous snakes would be torture for me but perhaps not for you.

I believe initially there were marks of torture in the reports too.

Thus the probes had to wait till now, until at least those marks disappeared.

And yet, still no policemen dare to go to the panel to show himself, even if to deny it!...4x summoned!!

[jacksam]

Torture or not. We all know those boys are innocent

do we?for sure?

Yes we do know for sure. From day 1 it was obvious to 99.9% of us.

I know what a 1%er is......guess I'm a 0.1%er

[Baerboxer]

The whole world knows what happened, these people have been worried about losing face for the longest time but they seem to be working hard to lose it all. Now everyone is laughing at them and they are still trying to deny the obvious.

It's too lame to be truth.

No the world doesn't know what happened.

Many people here post their popular believe of what happened that happens to fit with what they'd like the result to be. Anything different is dismissed and anyone who dares to say different is insulted and dismissed as being paid or in cahoots with the authorities. The tactics of the PC mob rule mentality - you are either with us or against us but you can't have a different opinion.

Two people were horrendously murdered. The initial police attendance contaminated the crime scene, were clueless and seemed to seek guidance from the local political / influential leaders rather than their superiors. More police piled in and several conflicting stories were given to the press causing even more confusion and fueling the speculation. Two illegal migrant workers were arrested based on DNA matches, after much confusion about what could and could not be tested in Thailand, how long the process would take and no explanation of why their DNA didn't match when first checked. The suspects confessed and then recanted claiming they were tortured. There has been no evidence produced to show that they were tortured, only their statement. This claim is being investigated. In the meantime British police officers came, observed and went. Their report will be produced but unlikely to be revealed before the inquest. The local prosecutor does not want to accept the case as he believes it is not complete and the RTP have stated they believe the case is complete, it's 80% complete and that they are not pursuing any more inquiries.

The whole show highlights the complete lack of professional competence, including posting detailed crime scene photos on the internet, and the somewhat dubious nature of law enforcement here. Combine that with a judicial process that is prone to influences of politics, wealth, social standing and connections and the chances of really seeing justice done become remote.

What this does demonstrate the sad state of affairs of justice and law enforcement in Thailand and the likely corruption that seems to underpin everything here.

Like most people I have my opinion. But that's all it is, an opinion. There are several possible scenarios and I'm sure others could think of more than me. But, like most if not all here, I haven't seen all the evidence.

[metisdead]

A post referring to the government as a dictatorship has been removed.