Sinsod or Dowry.. why the big deal ?

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^, not all of us weigh 400 lbs or are of coffin dodger age, we have options.

I appreciate not everyone has the same options.

My advice to anyone reading this, dont bother going north of Bkk, there is nothing there, its apache country, not for the feint of heart, have cheque book will travel, LOL

Why do we never here of this crap down south where all the beautiful Thai women come from?

[MauiSteveBKK]

I am falang 60yr. My Thai wife is 47, a professional Intl. Currency Trader.

I was mildly asked by my Wife to make an offer.

She's been married before. She's a bit older. No children.

So .... I gave and they gladly accepted: 100,000THB

Yes. I did receive some back. But it was my honor and privilege to do such. Thai wedding small and inexpensive.

My Wife paid for wedding. It was dispersed to some family members that are poor farmers west of Nong Khai.

My first wedding in Texas, USA cost me over $50,000.00.

Small price to pay for a Thai custom that I like and support. I felt good to help so many in her family.

We do not send money monthly.

[Robert2006]

Sin Sot is an example of how marriage in reality is more of a business arrangement than it is about love. This sin sot tradition is a form of psychological intimidation designed to misdirect long enough to get control and get a sin sot payment.

Unless you have children or want the romantic feeling of being able to say “my wife”, marriage (the business arrangement) has been legislated out of being a real positive; legally it is a form of control that weakens the individual.

Westerners actually sign a financial suicide agreement I mean a “marriage license” essentially paving the way for a government to decide how much money it will cost to end the “marriage”. In Thailand the “business arrangement” starts with a form of intimidation by custom and tradition called “sin sot”.

[Globeman]

1. It is a Thais culture. (Normal for Thais)

2. It will show your stable life.(your back ground)

3. It can be guarantee for your future wife's family.(make sure you can look after their daughter)

4. It shows how much value of your future wife.(her basic life and job)

5. For the face if your future wife's family rich. (social life)

:-)

Yes, and it is a ridiculously large chunk of change that you hand over to the woman's parents to purchase their daughter... slavery used to be part of a lot of cultures as well (and apparently still is on some of Thailand's fishing boats), but that doesn't make the argument wash.

About half of the friends I have who paid it have seen the daddy of the family squander it within weeks on booze to impress their mates, gambling, whores, etc. The other half had it given back after the in-laws had gained a bit of face -which is okay, if it is sooo important that everyone think someone's dick is bigger than it actually is. But once again, Thailand's males leech off the country's females.

It is high time Thailand grew up and made the big leap out of the middle ages. Quit high-wai-ing the rich dicks who enslave you in the hopes they will toss you some table scraps like some low-ranking soi dog, stop equating love and money - they really aren't the same thing, drop this ridiculous schoolyard "face" nonsense... it really is childish, and it forces you and everyone you know into spending more than you can afford to keep up with the neighbours. So you have a nation of people who are pretending together, creating an illusion that is a struggle for everyone to maintain.

[pigeonjake]

i once asked my wife a simple question,,

i said how much money does your mama and papa give to there mama and papa,? the answer was nothing,,,,,,,,,they all live together on the same bit of land,,,,,,,

so why do mamas and papas now expect money?

she said i dont know,

so is it a new thing, like i think,?

mamas and papas my age dont give, but some expect there children to give to them, come on get real, its the falang thing,,

i truely think its a modern thing,,

some famalies see falang and think, weve won the pools,

my wife sees me packing my bag to go offshore, sees our daughter holding me not wanting me to go,, she understand that we,(falang) have to work for our money, we dont just get it from trees, and ive said many times all falang not rich as most thais think,

yes i wouldnt of missed a few k, but like i said in my other post, i wasnt going to buy a wife,

i have said to my wife many many times, if they want things let your dad go to work like i do,,

she knows and now understands that i wont give to some one who wants to sit about,

i agree with some others on here, that some perents are just,,,, no worse, then the worst mamasams,

it all boils down to if you want to pay this sin sod,,

if you agree with it,, i dont,

my advice would be sit down with your g/f and talk about it,

they will talk to you,

like i say my wife has seen me going to work, so has her mama, they know falang work hard,

and we dont just want to give our money away,

does all this sin sod give the falang face in the village? look at me ive given my in laws this and that,,,lol

sorry, you will be paying 10x what a thai would be paying even if he was paying,

yes you here of well to do thais paying millions of bht,, but has anyone ever seen this?,, and do they get it back,

that would be bum nipping time,,millions on the table,,,,

just my thoughts

[Globeman]

i once asked my wife a simple question,,

i said how much money does your mama and papa give to there mama and papa,? the answer was nothing,,,,,,,,,they all live together on the same bit of land,,,,,,,

so why do mamas and papas now expect money?

she said i dont know,

so is it a new thing, like i think,?

mamas and papas my age dont give, but some expect there children to give to them, come on get real, its the falang thing,,

i truely think its a modern thing,,

some famalies see falang and think, weve won the pools,

my wife sees me packing my bag to go offshore, sees our daughter holding me not wanting me to go,, she understand that we,(falang) have to work for our money, we dont just get it from trees, and ive said many times all falang not rich as most thais think,

yes i wouldnt of missed a few k, but like i said in my other post, i wasnt going to buy a wife,

i have said to my wife many many times, if they want things let your dad go to work like i do,,

she knows and now understands that i wont give to some one who wants to sit about,

i agree with some others on here, that some perents are just,,,, no worse, then the worst mamasams,

it all boils down to if you want to pay this sin sod,,

if you agree with it,, i dont,

my advice would be sit down with your g/f and talk about it,

they will talk to you,

like i say my wife has seen me going to work, so has her mama, they know falang work hard,

and we dont just want to give our money away,

does all this sin sod give the falang face in the village? look at me ive given my in laws this and that,,,lol

sorry, you will be paying 10x what a thai would be paying even if he was paying,

yes you here of well to do thais paying millions of bht,, but has anyone ever seen this?,, and do they get it back,

that would be bum nipping time,,millions on the table,,,,

just my thoughts

Some good points... but you don't have to write in pidgin English - it's mostly a native english forum.

[Nayet]

My answer is... If i were cheating on my husband I will pay husband double of SinSod for divorce because the guy who can made me cheat on my husband will have to be 10times better than him.

PS. I will go with my new husband and give him cash infront of everyone. And say"Tip 4millions baht for you"

:-)

Thank you very much. You have proven once again why I would never marry a woman of any nationality.

Is this why you have the word "cheater" in your username?

What it takes to get a woman away from her husband is simply to have a lot more money. Nice.

Who dont want money? My answer is maybe animal.

"Cheater" on my username? You will never knew what this mean because of your usernane...Nerver sure

:-)

This may be an alien concept to you, but to some people, loyalty is actually more important than money.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Nayet

[louse1953]

F the sin sot , it's out of date old fashion a waste of my hard earned money, which I could be using for the future . Why Thais think that money grows on trees in western country's is beyond me...

Everybody knows somebody,that knows somebody,whose cousin got paid 1 million baht sinsod.Its all about the money.

[David48]

It's a joy on the Forum that we all have different opinions, different value sets .. very often different experiences.

I consider pigeonjake a mate from the Forum.

On this point, SinSot, we have different views ... doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

Out of 10 things Thai related ... we may disagree on 2 and agree wholeheartedly on 8 others.

Are we still mates ... sure.

It would be a boring 'ole place if we all thought the same about everything.

[louse1953]

F the sin sot , it's out of date old fashion a waste of my hard earned money, which I could be using for the future . Why Thais think that money grows on trees in western country's is beyond me...

Nobody thought money grows on the tree. How can thai guys get married then?

Most of my Thai friends married Thai guys got minimum 1million baht sin-sod excluded gold and etc.

I dont understand why some farang agaisnt to pay SinSod if they want to marry thai woman and this is a thai culture.

;-)

Sucked in,dont believe everything they tell you.Its a game.

[CapeThai]

Don't have much to say about this topic, but understands and respect the meaning behind it.

Me and my GF had many discussions about Sin Sod explaining to me in detail the culture behind it and that we should also get it back after the wedding ceremony. ( should her family bring up the subject when discussing the wedding )

After I asked my GF Mom ( Dad is dead ) if I can marry her youngest daughter the family ( specially the oldest brother ) made me understood very well the family don't want money or anything from me. They were very clear about the fact all they want is for their youngest to be truly happy.

This family did not grow up rich and the Old Lady ( now 75 ) worked her ass off to put all 3 her children through university which are all doing very well for themselves.

My GF ( now 33 ) was never married before, but did however have one long term Thai boyfriend who dumped her at the " altar " 5 years ago for a 19 year old. Apparently he disappeared soon after... .... stupid fool. He's missing out on the most wonderful and amazing woman & in laws I ever came across..

So Yeah, I heard horror stories just the opposite of mine where the bride was a bargirl or was previously married with 2 or 3 children and the family then wants ridiculous amounts in cash, gold for sin sod.... to never be returned to the Newly Wedds again.....

I consider myself as very lucky to have met the right lady and family which would not take advantage of this situation although I would NOT have had a problem " Paying" Sin Sod as a custom.

Edited December 1, 2014 by CapeThai

[louse1953]

F the sin sot , it's out of date old fashion a waste of my hard earned money, which I could be using for the future . Why Thais think that money grows on trees in western country's is beyond me...

It is not out of date. It may be strange for you, but you can't expect that Thais adapt to your style. Who are you?

Fatfather

To the contrary,he probably is the one with the money,therefore he has the power.Thats thai tradition.When farangs actually start acting like thais in money matters the better off they will be.

[thaibeachlovers]

My two penneths worth.............3 years ago I was asked for 100,000 baht dowry from a girls mother if I wanted the two of us to live together. The initial price was one million, which was reduced to 600,000 baht, anf then down to 100,000 baht. Reluctantly, I paid the money, and asked the mother for a receipt, which was refused. So, I did manage to take some pictures of the mother holding the money, and then the father slowly counted out every note.

Surprise, surprise, the girl walked out on me 3 weeks later. She had done this on a number of occasions before. So, I went to her mother and asked for my money back. What a surprise, the mother said that they had spent half of the money.

Next day I went to a lawyer, and took advice on taking the mother and daughter to court for the return of my money.

The lawyer was very decent, and explained that if we went to court I WOULD lose, and he wouldn't waste my money. For this advice he charged me 2,000 baht.

BUT.........his advice to me was............if I was considering paying a dowry again, then to hand over the money in his presence in his office, and have a paper signed and countersigned.

As a result of this, I have no intention of ever paying a dowry again. The lady I am with now, and her family, have never asked me for a single baht. The parents are happy that their daughter is being well looked after, and to that end, my lady is the sole beneficary in my Thai will.

That wasn't a dowry, that was rent. I hope you got your money's worth in the 3 weeks

A dowry is when a woman MARRIES the man.

[lcp0761]

My wife is Thai and I am a farang. We had a marriage ceremony in her village for her mother (she wanted to show-off to family/friends) and I gave her mother $100K as it is a Thai custom (like it or not).

My wife and I agreed to $100K and no more. $100K is reasonable and I never saw any of it back.

Paying the sinsod allowed her family to save face and it didn't break my bank account.

Agreeing to the sinsod avoided in-law family conflict from the start which my wife and I didn't need.

My wife and I have lived in the US for the past 4-years (going on 5-years) and we send her mother $10K every 2-weeks as she takes care of my wife's 2-kids from a prior marriage.

There has never been any buffalo stories or sick family members to extort money out of me even though my wife has told me countless times her family has encouraged her to take all my money and run.

Respectively, I trust no one as I am a law enforcement official. I do the family banking and generously purchase what my wife needs. She also has a job so she has her own money and learning to say no to her family (yes she has gotten burnt a few times).

I recommend any farang pursuing marriage to a Thai woman to keep it all in perspective and talk it through with your GF/wife to be--- Don't start out with "NO" but listen to her, remind her you are not the bank, and compromise when available.

[louse1953]

Who dont want money? My answer is maybe animal.

I appreciate your previous reply to my question about repaying sinsot. In my case, there was little point to pursue the money through the Courts because I would (maybe) win an unenforceable judgement. You cannot get blood something out of a stone...

But now to your comment "Who don't want money? My answer is maybe animal", which I cannot ignore.

Does a monk want money?

Will money make you happy?

Those who claim that everyone wants money are typically the people who have never been rich.

IMHO, the desire for money is often motivated by selfish greed and the desire to impress (big face syndrome).

Is this what they call "Thainess"?

I think the want of money is for security for the future.Greed is the want of more money than you need.

[louse1953]

"little envelopes will make much or all of it back."

in your dreams.....

Why are you laughing?

Let's say the sinsod or dowry is 1 million Baht. You have 200 guests that each bring give an average of say 1500 Baht. OK that's only 300,000 Baht, but some people are more generous than others. Overall, however, the idea behind the little envelopes is to pay for the wedding not so much the sinsod. Anyone who shows up giving less than about 1000 Baht (or certainly less than 500 Baht) is a cheap ass.

You pay what you can afford.Do you rekon you get 1500 baht worth of food,grog and entertainment.

[louse1953]

Once u let go of your predispositons of sin sod u move on. I couldnt ask for a better wife. 200k is jack shit to me nyway. Have a beautiful young girl on a very good salay who is drop dead gorgeous. If u are too tight to part with that kinda money u arent gonna find ny decent women.

Very shallow there crickets,your starting to sound thai,beauty,good money,gorgeous.Is this what makes a decent women!!So you are quite happy to buy your wife.You have a lot to learn.Chogdee.

[MAJIC]

"Read this on a website and I just wonder why anyone would complain about it - ok its a bit of a shock to have to shell out 1M plus baht but do we have any right to complain, we are marrying into a Thai family after all. And if its to do with being tight, don't forget all those little envelopes will make much or all of it back"

But of course we have a right to complain about Sinsod,it's our money.Secondly it's not in our Culture to pay for a Bride! and we most certainly would not pay the Parents Sinsod in the West,so why do we do it in the East etc,because our potential bride in lots if not most cases would find a new sponsor if we refused to pay Mama and Papa.This is not the mutual Love we are brought up to believe, in the West,so there is the conflict,pay Sinsod in Thailand and you are upholding Thai Culture,and Tradition,while giving Mama and Papa a veritable chance of them gaining the equivalent of a major prize of Lottery proportions.Mention the Sinsod/Dowry back home and you will struggle to convince your friends and family,that you haven't really bought a catalogue bride,through an agency, and the family are so poor,that you decided to slip Mama and Papa some money for looking after your new wife so well! and good luck with that!

[louse1953]

All of my Thai friends (all are well off) say they paid a face saving dowry. In other words they all paid an agreed upon amount at the time of the wedding, it was promptly given back to them the day after. They all said that modern Thai families all realize that it is better to allow your Son or Daughter and your spouse good start in their life instead of burdening them from the beginning of their life together.

Maybe it is better to marry from a good family than a poor one.

So your saying poor people are not good.If sinsod was that easy i would give 10million baht.

[MAJIC]

F the sin sot , it's out of date old fashion a waste of my hard earned money, which I could be using for the future . Why Thais think that money grows on trees in western country's is beyond me...

It is not out of date. It may be strange for you, but you can't expect that Thais adapt to your style. Who are you?

Fatfather

"Who are you?"

He who pays the piper calls the tune!

[louse1953]

Thai men pay it.

Indeed they do...for educated virgins.

Nonsense. Virginity has nothing to do with it.

Oh yes it has,in the sinsod world.Tarnished goods and all that crap.

[louse1953]

Thai men pay it.

Indeed they do...for educated virgins.

Nonsense. Virginity has nothing to do with it.

Yes it does. Had this explained time and time again by Thais. Those Thai geezers who cough up big sin sots for hiso gals expect blood on the sheets.

So Prame thought Tata Young was a virgin? I don't think so!

http://www.blog.personalthailand.com/tata-young-engaged/

You could do a little research and find out more yourself:

And i believe in Father xmas.

http://www.marrythailand.com/thailand-dowry.php

[louse1953]

My wife is Thai and I am a farang. We had a marriage ceremony in her village for her mother (she wanted to show-off to family/friends) and I gave her mother $100K as it is a Thai custom (like it or not).

My wife and I agreed to $100K and no more. $100K is reasonable and I never saw any of it back.

Paying the sinsod allowed her family to save face and it didn't break my bank account.

Agreeing to the sinsod avoided in-law family conflict from the start which my wife and I didn't need.

My wife and I have lived in the US for the past 4-years (going on 5-years) and we send her mother $10K every 2-weeks as she takes care of my wife's 2-kids from a prior marriage.

There has never been any buffalo stories or sick family members to extort money out of me even though my wife has told me countless times her family has encouraged her to take all my money and run.

Respectively, I trust no one as I am a law enforcement official. I do the family banking and generously purchase what my wife needs. She also has a job so she has her own money and learning to say no to her family (yes she has gotten burnt a few times).

I recommend any farang pursuing marriage to a Thai woman to keep it all in perspective and talk it through with your GF/wife to be--- Don't start out with "NO" but listen to her, remind her you are not the bank, and compromise when available.

5555You have never been extorted,but family are always trying it on.You might be happy,mil is very happy.No is the default starting position.

[jacko45k]

F the sin sot , it's out of date old fashion a waste of my hard earned money, which I could be using for the future . Why Thais think that money grows on trees in western country's is beyond me...

Nobody thought money grows on the tree. How can thai guys get married then?

Most of my Thai friends married Thai guys got minimum 1million baht sin-sod excluded gold and etc.

I dont understand why some farang agaisnt to pay SinSod if they want to marry thai woman and this is a thai culture.

;-)

If a Thai woman wants to marry a non-Thai why must the Western culture be ignored?

(Perhaps the woman is happier not to have some Thai culture in the relationship, like a mia noi or abandonment)

The money would be better employed by the newly wed couple, than to hand it over to family members, who many just view as a bonanza.

I think a compromise is necessary, no sinsot and no dowry, and I pay for the wedding???

[Leung Falang]

Got married in my country and never lived in Thailand at all the first 18 years...and now only part time. No dowry, but have helped far more than normal.

[Leung Falang]

F the sin sot , it's out of date old fashion a waste of my hard earned money, which I could be using for the future . Why Thais think that money grows on trees in western country's is beyond me...

Nobody thought money grows on the tree. How can thai guys get married then?

Most of my Thai friends married Thai guys got minimum 1million baht sin-sod excluded gold and etc.

I dont understand why some farang agaisnt to pay SinSod if they want to marry thai woman and this is a thai culture.

;-)

My wife married me in the USA into American culture. That is how.

[F4UCorsair]

Double post

Edited December 2, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[F4UCorsair]

1. It is a Thais culture. (Normal for Thais)

2. It will show your stable life.(your back ground)

3. It can be guarantee for your future wife'so family.(make sure you can look after their daughter)

4. It shows how much value of your future wife.(her basic life and job)

5. For the face if your future wife's family rich. (social life)

:-)

And most importantly it shows you're a sucker who can be milked by the leeches in her family.

[DerekMarshall]

F the sin sot , it's out of date old fashion a waste of my hard earned money, which I could be using for the future . Why Thais think that money grows on trees in western country's is beyond me...

Nobody thought money grows on the tree. How can thai guys get married then?

Most of my Thai friends married Thai guys got minimum 1million baht sin-sod excluded gold and etc.

I dont understand why some farang agaisnt to pay SinSod if they want to marry thai woman and this is a thai culture.

;-)

No, it´s not. Sin sot traces back to Chinese culture.

[F4UCorsair]

"Traditionally, what might be called a dowry is paid by the groom to the brides family. If your fiancée is Thai, this is an issue you may have to come to terms with and it is often a bone of contention for non-Thai men."

Read this on a website and I just wonder why anyone would complain about it - ok its a bit of a shock to have to shell out 1M plus baht but do we have any right to complain, we are marrying into a Thai family after all. And if its to do with being tight, don't forget all those little envelopes will make much or all of it back..

She's marrying into another culture where sin sot isn't a tradition, so where's the respect for that culture.

Go ahead and justify to yourself paying it, but it's the thin edge of the wedge.