Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[smellthecoffee]

The two Brits were murdered by Thais connected with the mafia on the island and the whole thing is contrived plain and simple.

1 How can they be DNA tested and be let go the first time?

2 DNA tests were done on semen and blood the first time not cigarette packets near the scene.

3 The Scottish guy gets told to hang himself and gets threatened by the Thai mafia why?

4 The Chief mans son was not DNA tested that is to say the Chief of Police's son because the son said he was in Bangkok true or not?

5 Thais questioned the sons alibi as the photo shown to claim he was in Bangkok was said to be in a university in Surat Thani has this been checked out?

5 The sons look alike was seen in the area with his distinct gibon walk. If this was not him who was it? It's an island not Los Angeles.

6 The DNA tests were finally done when the bodies were already sent back to Britain and the DNA tests were negative. DNA tests on what a cigarette packet that got the two Burmese arrested or the semen in the girls vagina?

7 The two Burmese were arrested on DNA evidence connected to cigarette packets and smoked butts. Why is that evidence connected to rape and murder? Because they were there? Or was the evidence dropped there from another part of the beach or on butts and cigarettes given to them in custody? Anyway it's flimsy at best.

8 They claim torture. They withdrew their confession consistent with confessions under torture. They were also paraded in front of cameras to reincarnate the crime scene. Why were they wearing protective helmets and body armour did it look to you like there were crowds of onlookers itching to kill them or did it look like a staged propaganda spectacle for the press?

9 Both of the Burmese are without any violent history or character. Did they just break the habit of a life time and get into a serious bit of homicide because of a full moon?

10 DNA is conclusive evidence. Whoever ejaculated inside the British girl is guilty. The Burmese already got tested. They passed. The son got tested on what? What was he tested on is that clear and is he really clear. Was he tested for semen or cigarette butts if it was it seems passing a test on semen isn't conclusive evidence but having your DNA on cigarette butts is damning.

Edited December 6, 2014 by smellthecoffee

[carter1882]

It would appear, as all along, that there us an overwhelmingly good case against the suspects. Thus, however, will make absolutely no difference to the absurd ramblings of the conspiracy theorists of social media and the TVTBs. They will never change their annoying tune because they dont care about facts, they just want to have a go at everything Thai, and expound their own pathetic prejudices no matter what the evidence to the contrary. Interestingly, also, one of their constant criticisms was that the Thai police said too much. What is increasingly obvious is that they have kept some very pertinent evidence up their sleeves for the trial that clearly the British police have been privy to and seemingly even, perhaps on the suggestions of their own police in the matter, one of the families. Everyone seems happy except the conspiracy theorists who will never rest even if Lee Harvey Oswald is pardoned and Hoover posthumously convicted and Obama admits that Roswell was all a cover up and the little green men came for tea with him and Michelle.

[boomerangutang]

The Thai PM made very clear that the Brit experts were allowed to come to Thailand as observers only. 'Observers' are allowed to look at things, and maybe ask a few questions, but not much more. With all due respect to the families, I'd still like to see British DNA data, if garnered independently. If Brit police merely took what the RTP told them, and passed it on to the families, then we're still in a similar soup as before this announcement. Reminder: The Brit police were explicitly told NOT to do any independent investigating while in Thailand.

[jdinasia]

The two Brits were murdered by Thais connected with the mafia on the island and the whole thing is contrived plain and simple. If it is true that the parents quote is correct it is because the are naive and have been presented with the British police's Thai contrived account of which they are at it yet again. The boy's background and height show no violent history and it is well known that migrant workers are scape goats for the Thai police who pin crimes on them. The evidence is not transparent for what possible reason? They continue to to be making it and want to make sure it sticks when they present it in court. You can build a strong case against anyone if your making it all up.

Proof that no matter what is said or done, the conspiracy theorists will never be satisfied.

[SABloke]

If you had experience you would have mentioned it you did not. So i am not off the mark.

Sure the police makes mistakes but in this case they send their best to a case that is in the spotlights. What do you think.

I think its a case of not wanting to eat humble pie.

I do agree that the Thai police are bad.. but the Brits have send their best.

Your taking punts as to my experience on the subject based on me not announcing it to all and sundry? That's not how it works.

And why do you keep referring to them as our best? I've given you plenty of example of how 'the best' police over here are no better than anywhere else.

Our best are probably GCHQ or MI6 and they have far more important things to worry about than another foreigner dying in shady circumstances in Thailand.

If there is humble pie to be eaten I will gladly do so. However in order for that to happen there needs to be complete transparency from the start which as the poster above alluded too was simply not there hence the suspicion.

There are 2 types of people in this world. Those who eat up the fodder for the masses spouted by the media and those in power and those who take a step back and question things based on instinct. Yes we don't have all the facts to hand but it's blatantly clear this case has been mishandled and would not hold up in court in any country with a shred of credibility. If you don't recognise that then I can't really say any more.

Again denying stuff so you dont have the experience else you would have backed it up.

They have training experience and access to the evidence. You have none of that you have your brain (probably good) but not the training nor access to all the evidence.

That the police fouls up that is obvious I foul up at times too. Everyone does its called being human. However this was a team of police officers on a high profile case. If they thought it was a sham they would have told the family.

There are more then 2 type of people.. i know some wearing tin foil hats too. I question things a lot but only if I have access to the details I have seen it often how people make assumptions without all the evidence it goes wrong.

That the Thai police mishandled the case is clear no need to discuss it, but obvious the Brits that have seen the evidence that in the end they caught the suspects. But the Thais really are bad at keeping things silent, its quite normal to have multiple suspects and investigate leads but they acted like leads were the culprits all the time. It was wrong it was stupid. That does not mean that they did not catch the right guys in the end.

The experienced Brit police officers that reviewed the case at least thought so. If the report comes out and it states otherwise I will eat humble pie.

The mark of a man is not being afraid to admit he is wrong.

So what YOUR experience mate? You harp on about ''wellred'' not having any experience, yet you make conclusive statements such as ''They would not have sent rank amateurs to a high profile case.''

How do you know that?? Option A: You are a deity. Option B: You are the British head of police. Option C: You don't know sweet f-all but like to think you do. Option D: You are naive.

I'm leaning towards C and/or D

[thailandchilli]

It's on the Beeb site now. Family seem pretty convinced . . .

Thai murder victim families voice 'relief' at court charges

The families of two Britons murdered in Thailand say they feel "relief" that the case is coming to court and are "confident" about the investigation

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30359459

Lucky you can remove the posts yourself that gone slag you off for being a spoilsport in this thread

Its not his comment, its a direct quote from the beeb article......................doh

[aimbc]

I think we have to keep in mind that the murderer must be brought to justice. It's not only about giving respect to the family, but for every ones safety as well. If the real murderer is still on the loose it should be everyone's concern.

And how the police handle the investigation is sketchy for sure. No representative or legal advice for the accused. Big cover up of some sort.

Most of TV and all of Thais know how crooked the cops are here. It's all about the money and power.

I hope the lawyers will have a chance to bring to light what truly happened. And why evidence were excluded. I hope the head of forensic k Porntip is called as an expert witness of how incompetent and procedurally flawed the investigation was.

They are so anal about the DNA found. But that doesn mean that they killed them. There is alot more to it than that.

And another thing, why are witnesses afraid to come forward? If the b2 did it, they would be highly praised for their action. But no, they and everyone know that the dark side of Koh Tao can end their lives.

[love1012]

Umm in response to this

"That of course being said, the prosecution have several issues they need to convince the public of.

"

No.

The prosecution only needs to convince the judges.

I know what you mean, and it is mostly accurate. However, if the court of public opinion is not also mostly convinced, this can have negative consequences going forward.

The court of public opinion should be of no consequence to the court. The law and the facts of the case are all that should matter.

Most of the points raised above have nothing to do with the investigation and only deal with the conspiracy theories. If the prosecution can prove that the 2 Burmese men accused of being the killers are indeed guilty of murder, then all the other crap is moot.

This case hasnt been about FACTS since the mafia destroyed the crime scene!! This case has NOTHING to do with facts!!

[tattoodrob]

As long as we all know the family only saw the evidence the Thai police provided.......We can understand their opinion.

Agree.......i think uk police were told info from thai police and were not able to investigate it in anyway and so they go back with info they are told and that will "look" convincing to the family........if the B2 did it then i dont think they did it on there own,seems really unbelievable if true and if they did do it then why the <deleted> they didnt run as had many opprtunities......too many inconsistencies from Thai police and this the reason why no one believes them and ofcourse there past history and the weird re run of the murder with the B2 was very strange,normally they are quite accurate but that one was not really believable and inconsistent with there reports of how the 2 were killed. I really dont think the real story will ever come out,if they were involved then they deserve everything they could get but with judges/police etc all in the same club as such then im not sure real justice will be served and we will never know as we not in that club

[love1012]

The two Brits were murdered by Thais connected with the mafia on the island and the whole thing is contrived plain and simple. If it is true that the parents quote is correct it is because the are naive and have been presented with the British police's Thai contrived account of which they are at it yet again. The boy's background and height show no violent history and it is well known that migrant workers are scape goats for the Thai police who pin crimes on them. The evidence is not transparent for what possible reason? They continue to to be making it and want to make sure it sticks when they present it in court. You can build a strong case against anyone if your making it all up.

Proof that no matter what is said or done, the conspiracy theorists will never be satisfied.

Proof that no one will believe the contrived evidence from as corrupt a police force as there is anywhere in the world. proof that thankfully some people remember the trail of lies that have led us to the sad state were at now. I believe the familys are resigned to NEVER getting justice - mafia apologists on this site should be ashamed of themselves!!

[jdinasia]

Umm in response to this

"That of course being said, the prosecution have several issues they need to convince the public of.

"

No.

The prosecution only needs to convince the judges.

I know what you mean, and it is mostly accurate. However, if the court of public opinion is not also mostly convinced, this can have negative consequences going forward.

The court of public opinion should be of no consequence to the court. The law and the facts of the case are all that should matter.

Most of the points raised above have nothing to do with the investigation and only deal with the conspiracy theories. If the prosecution can prove that the 2 Burmese men accused of being the killers are indeed guilty of murder, then all the other crap is moot.

This case hasnt been about FACTS since the mafia destroyed the crime scene!! This case has NOTHING to do with facts!!

Perhaps you should read the title of the thread again, then the article. Then go read the other articles in the thread from the major UK news outlets.

The all CAPS stridency doesn't help your case.

[love1012]

Its very clear that the families have rightly or wrongly received "compensation" and are happy with that!!

The Thai police have made their cover up for the "poo chai" stick and the British are not going to rattle cages - but lets be clear this is not belief it is acceptance!!

How the <deleted> is it clear that the families have taken compensation? Wow you guys just amaze me. You know every bloody thing.

Where as you know nothing except to bark like a dog at people passing

And what do you know that I don't? Better yet, what do you think you know?

I know that a LOT of questions have not been answered and i KNOW that I know Thailand better than YOU will ever know it!!

[love1012]

With all respect to the grieving parents:

- Did someone (with some appropriate authority) put all the evidence in front of the parents to read and then ask the parents for a comment?

- Do the parents know how to evaluate the evidence and know how it might be challenged in legal terms, and then come up with a word like 'convincing'?

What is clear is they have A LOT more information and insight into the evidence than any of us as do the UK police who briefed them on the case and the family clearly has a MUCH MUCH MUCH greater interest in seeing this case concluded with the right people responsible standing trial and they believe there is ample evidence indicating these are the right guys.

Good and truthful comment up until .......and they believe there is ample evidence indicating these are the right guys.............what gives you the right to come out with a comment like that...................how the hell do you know what they believe

The statement from the parents clearly indicates they believe there is ample evidence for these guys to stand trial ... you might try actually reading and repeating a full sentence instead of quoting a partial one out of context. Maybe I should do that too and just stop at the fact you say my post was a "Good and truthful comment"

Really!!! Youre capable of doing that?

[love1012]

There is a lot of cognitive dissonance evident in the posts of this thread. Those who believe (like myself) that the RTP is framing the Burmese kids find it very difficult to accept that the families are satisfied ,so far, with the work of the RTP. However, the endorsement (of the FO drafted statement) by the families states that quite clearly. On the other side, those who were previously convinced of the B2's guilt are presenting the statement as irrefutable endorsement of their views and clear proof that the B2 are guilty. The statement neither states, nor even implies, any such thing, though it certainly does suggest there is quite enough evidence (given trust of the RTP) for an indictment.

More importantly it asks for an end to the constant conspiracy theory speculation

......................and complete acceptance of the word of a corrupt police force and a murderous mafia family!!! Hang your head in shame JD!

[love1012]

There is a lot of cognitive dissonance evident in the posts of this thread. Those who believe (like myself) that the RTP is framing the Burmese kids find it very difficult to accept that the families are satisfied ,so far, with the work of the RTP. However, the endorsement (of the FO drafted statement) by the families states that quite clearly. On the other side, those who were previously convinced of the B2's guilt are presenting the statement as irrefutable endorsement of their views and clear proof that the B2 are guilty. The statement neither states, nor even implies, any such thing, though it certainly does suggest there is quite enough evidence (given trust of the RTP) for an indictment.

More importantly it asks for an end to the constant conspiracy theory speculation

In which you of course play no part??

IMO the biggest conspiracy theorists are the ones buying whatever BS the RTP serves up!!

From day one, you and your groupies here have locked yourselves onto the holy truth as presented by the police. No arguments have been able to move your just a millimeter from your original views.

That in my book is a true conspiracy theorist!!

At least we, on the other side of the fence, try to have an open mind and be flexible!!

Again I point you to the words from the families.

and again we point out that there are too many unanswered questions to accept the familys who are suffering their bereavement as the truth in this case.

[balo]

Maybe its better for thaivisa members to stop posting until after the trial and verdict ?

Next week more facts and hopefully new evidence will be revealed and until then, why speculate ?

The families of the victims wants justice and if the Brits also agree on the evidence we should not question the outcome of the verdict , Maybe the Burmese will be convicted or maybe they will be set free because the evidence is not good enough. Until then , please just wait and respect the families decision....

Thai murder victim families voice 'relief' at court charges Edited December 6, 2014 by balo

[Anthony5]

There is a lot of cognitive dissonance evident in the posts of this thread. Those who believe (like myself) that the RTP is framing the Burmese kids find it very difficult to accept that the families are satisfied ,so far, with the work of the RTP. However, the endorsement (of the FO drafted statement) by the families states that quite clearly. On the other side, those who were previously convinced of the B2's guilt are presenting the statement as irrefutable endorsement of their views and clear proof that the B2 are guilty. The statement neither states, nor even implies, any such thing, though it certainly does suggest there is quite enough evidence (given trust of the RTP) for an indictment.

More importantly it asks for an end to the constant conspiracy theory speculation

......................and complete acceptance of the word of a corrupt police force and a murderous mafia family!!! Hang your head in shame JD!

If that is indeed what the family from the murdered victims ask, which I doubt was actually the purpose of their statement, so it eases their grieves, then it should respected don't you think so?

[CharlieH]

Apost commenting on moderation has been removed as has another post which was written within the quotes of others.

[Anthony5]

More importantly it asks for an end to the constant conspiracy theory speculation

......................and complete acceptance of the word of a corrupt police force and a murderous mafia family!!! Hang your head in shame JD!

If that is indeed what the family from the murdered victims ask, which I doubt was actually the purpose of their statement, so it eases their grieves, then it should respected don't you think so?

no..............dont try the sname game..............it doesnt change the unanswered questions and the corruption behind this case and the covering up of murderers

I fixed the quote for you because you get a bit too exited.

To answer your comment, it isn't about shame, it's about respect for the family.

[love1012]

There is a lot of cognitive dissonance evident in the posts of this thread. Those who believe (like myself) that the RTP is framing the Burmese kids find it very difficult to accept that the families are satisfied ,so far, with the work of the RTP. However, the endorsement (of the FO drafted statement) by the families states that quite clearly. On the other side, those who were previously convinced of the B2's guilt are presenting the statement as irrefutable endorsement of their views and clear proof that the B2 are guilty. The statement neither states, nor even implies, any such thing, though it certainly does suggest there is quite enough evidence (given trust of the RTP) for an indictment.

More importantly it asks for an end to the constant conspiracy theory speculation

......................and complete acceptance of the word of a corrupt police force and a murderous mafia family!!! Hang your head in shame JD!

If that is indeed what the family from the murdered victims ask, which I doubt was actually the purpose of their statement, so it eases their grieves, then it should respected don't you think so?

no..............dont try the sname game..............it doesnt change the unanswered questions and the corruption behind this case and the covering up of murderers

Edited December 6, 2014 by love1012

[CharlieH]

Overly negative remark removed

[jdinasia]

No, you simply have to wait for the trial.

[CharlieH]

off topic crude remark removed

[Krenjai]

The Thai PM made very clear that the Brit experts were allowed to come to Thailand as observers only. 'Observers' are allowed to look at things, and maybe ask a few questions, but not much more. With all due respect to the families, I'd still like to see British DNA data, if garnered independently. If Brit police merely took what the RTP told them, and passed it on to the families, then we're still in a similar soup as before this announcement. Reminder: The Brit police were explicitly told NOT to do any independent investigating while in Thailand.

Fully agree, and yes, we are still in the same soup if there is no independent verification of the DNA. If Sherlock Holmes & Co. were only observing the RTP will have shown them matching DNA evidence and of course matching DNA is powerful and convincing evidence if you believe it hasn't been tampered with. As long as we have not seen this, the speculation will continue, sorry!

Edited December 6, 2014 by Krenjai

[smellthecoffee]

1 THE BURMESE HAVE BEEN DNA TESTED AND PASSED FOR SEMEN AND BLOOD.

(DNA testing is conclusive 100%) not a chance it’s wrong. )

2 THE BURMESE BOYS WERE ARRESTED ON DNA FOR CIGARETTE BUTTS?

(How can you be DNA tested for blood and semen and be let off but later be arrested for butts?)

3 THE BUTTS WERE FOUND WHEN? COULD THEY HAVE BEEN PLANTED?

4 TORTURE AND CONFESSIONS LATER WITHDRAWN CONSISTANT WITH CASES OF TORTURE.

Migrant workers are often fitted up for crimes by the Thai police. It’s a given their human rights were not high on the agenda as is anyone that isn’t rich powerful and Thai isn’t in Thailand.

5 POLICE CHEIFS SON HE WAS IN BANGKOK ALIBI SO NO DNA TEST FOR HIM ON THE FIRST ROUND.

Later people refute the claims he was in Bangkok as the photo he shows of him in Bangkok get’s indentified as a Surat Thani university. Is this true?

6 FINALLY THE SON IS DNA TESTED BUT ON WHAT BUTTS OR BLOOD AND SEMEN?

The victims are back in the UK by this time and the DNA tests seem to have shifted from blood to butts.

7 THE BEACH REINCARNATION OF THE CRIME SCENE IN BODY ARMOUR?

Did it seem to you like they needed the extra protection from a lynch mob? Or was that pure propaganda? Yes I thought so too.

8 THE CHARACTER AND HISTORY OF BOTH THE BURMESE IS THAT OF GENTLE PEOPLE WITH NO PREVIOUS HISTORY OF VIOLENCE.

Is it easy then to believe that both went beserk?

9 THE SCOTTISH GUY WAS TOLD TO HANG HIMSELF BY THE MAFIA TO SHOW HE DID IT PRIOR TO THE BURMESE.

Is this is the same mafia that works for the Chief of Police?

10 WHO WAS THE MAN WALKING LIKE A GIBON WHO WALKS AND LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE THE POLICE CHIEFS SON IN THE CCTV CAMERA?

If it wasn’t the son then who was it? It’s a small island and should be easy enough to identify

[CharlieH]

overly negative remark removed

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[DarloKnight]

Can imagine a few posters on here sitting watching on Monday whilst knitting shouting "hang them their guilty"

[dcutman]

I myself would not have so many doubts about this case if the police did a few things.

Bring the suspects to a police station to be interrogated instead they bring the B2 to a secret location. Per Thai law

Made sure the suspects where aware of their right to remain silent. Per Thai law

Make sure the B2 have a lawyer at their disposal from the time of arrest. Per Thai law

A video taped interrogation, with of course council present. Not Thai law, but should be.

If any of these rights that is guaranteed under Thai law would have been given to these, none of this would even be in discussion.

Why didnt the police do any f these things if they were so confident they had they right guys and not trying to do what has happen so many times in the past?

[jdinasia]

The Thai PM made very clear that the Brit experts were allowed to come to Thailand as observers only. 'Observers' are allowed to look at things, and maybe ask a few questions, but not much more. With all due respect to the families, I'd still like to see British DNA data, if garnered independently. If Brit police merely took what the RTP told them, and passed it on to the families, then we're still in a similar soup as before this announcement. Reminder: The Brit police were explicitly told NOT to do any independent investigating while in Thailand.

Fully agree, and yes, we are still in the same soup if there is no independent verification of the DNA. If Sherlock Holmes & Co. were only observing the RTP will have shown them matching DNA evidence and of course matching DNA is powerful and convincing evidence if you believe it hasn't been tampered with. As long as we have not seen this, the speculation will continue, sorry!

So, absolutely no consideration for the families' wishes? Got it.

[jdinasia]

No, you simply have to wait for the trial.

Just like you have done??

With your hundreds of posts defending the RTP!!

Looking forward to the RTP "case" come tumbling down like a house of cards!!

I have been waiting for a trial and not pushing conspiracy theories.