Pheu Thai against granting amnesty to those accused of lese majeste

[Lite Beer]

Pheu Thai against granting amnesty to those accused of lese majeste
Khanittha Theppajorn
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Members of the Pheu Thai Party agreed that amnesty should exclude those facing lese majeste charges, the party's legal expert Bhokin Bhalakula said yesterday.

"The most important issue in previous charters that should also be included in the new one is amnesty. For instance, the 1974 charter stipulates that amnesty will not be granted to those who are against the monarchy," he said.

He also proposed that the new charter should be based on the 1997 constitution.

Bhokin, along with party representatives Samart Kaewmeechai and Preechapol Pongpanit, met the Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC) yesterday to offer Pheu Thai's proposals for the new constitution and national reform.

"The prime minister should come from an election, and MPs must be affiliated to political parties or politicians will have no discipline," Bhokin said.

He went on to say that the 2007 charter, which was abolished after the coup in May, had a mechanism that obstructed political parties and created independent organisations that were biased, which led to social disputes. Hence, he said, this charter was not suitable for Thailand's political system.

'Proposals based on 1997 charter'

He pointed out that the 2007 charter had been drafted by the previous coupmakers, who wanted to eliminate political party leaders by bringing back independent bodies to abuse the authorities, and it could be considered unlawful and biased.

Bhokin said Pheu Thai's proposals were based on the 1997 charter, because that constitution focused on strengthening civil politics and allowed people to offer ideas on drafting the charter, including impeaching politicians.

He pointed out that the 1974 constitution clearly stated that amnesty would not be granted to anybody who acts against the monarchy or overthrows a constitution, adding that subsequent charters did not have this clause.

"There should be a clause prohibiting amnesty for those who seize constitutional authority. If there is no push for this clause, then conflicts will continue. We should also accept the fact that people will have contradictory ideas, but we have to solve this problem under a democratic system," Bhokin said.

He added that the authorities should also trust people's decisions, adding that even though some people may be poor and uneducated, they did not lack intelligence. Hence, he said, the powers that be should produce a democratic ideology for them and allow more public participation.

He suggested that the charter drafters check to see if the root of the problem was the law itself or if individuals were to blame. If problems come from the legal level, then drafters should address them, but if the problems lie with individuals, then it should not affect the drafting of the new charter, he said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Pheu-Thai-against-granting-amnesty-to-those-accuse-30249747.html

-- The Nation 2014-12-13

[Roadman]

"He went on to say that the 2007 charter, which was abolished after the coup in May, had a mechanism that obstructed political parties and created independent organisations that were biased "against corruption and lawlessness", which led to social disputes. Hence, he said, this charter was not suitable for Thailand's Thaksins political system.

There fixed that for him. Yeap...the NACC, Courts etc. sure are a thorn in the side.

[rubl]

So, only amnesty for non-leader protesters who committed political crimes ?

[Robby nz]

So, only amnesty for non-leader protesters who committed political crimes ?

Leads to the question you asked on another topic Rubi " What is a political crime"

If I shoot a politician and am not a political leader does that mean I can plead that as an ordinary political protester my action was a political crime therefor I would be granted amnesty ?

[Tatsujin]

So, only amnesty for non-leader protesters who committed political crimes ?

Leads to the question you asked on another topic Rubi " What is a political crime"

If I shoot a politician and am not a political leader does that mean I can plead that as an ordinary political protester my action was a political crime therefor I would be granted amnesty ?

It's going to lead on to the likes of Arsiman ("I can assure you that Bangkok will turn into a sea of fire"), Nuttawut, Korkaew, Suthep, Yingluck, Veera, Issara, etc etc, all claiming they were not "leaders", merely "spokespersons" for the people ... and therefore eligible for any amnesty that might be going around ...

[mikemac]

...................."created independent organisations that were biased "against corruption and lawlessness", which led to social disputes. Hence, he said, this charter was not suitable for Thailand's political system."..............

How on Earth could the PTP operate under those conditions ??? Their whole political manifesto is based on corruption and lawlessness.

Little wonder this Thaksin Shinawatra supporter made this statement.

[greenchair]

The start of all of these troubles began with the coup of 2006. The 2007 constitution was rushed and really not thought through carefully. At the time of that coup there was much discontent from the people of taksin and even discontent within his own party. Other parties were developing and gaining popularity. Taksin would have been voted out years ago, if the democratic system had been allowed to take its course.

Changes to parliment and constitutions (even when flawed) can take decades.

[Lite Beer]

Phuea Thai proposes new charter do away with Constitutional Court, banning of party executives

BANGKOK, 13 December 2014 (NNT) – The Phuea Thai Party has proposed doing away with the Constitutional Court and the banning of party executives who were not directly involved with wrongdoings from politics, during a meeting between party representatives and the Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC).

General Lertrat Rattanawanit, Constitution Drafting Committee spokesperson, said many of the proposals made by Phuea Thai representatives were in line with the ideas of the charter drafting committee. The Phuea Thai Party delegation, led by Bhokin Bhalakula, Samat Kaewmichai and First Lieutenant Prichaphon Phongphanit, proposed that amnesty for constitution invalidators should not be included in the upcoming charter.

The party also proposed that the public be able to criticize the judgement of courts without being an offense, so long as the criticisms are made academically or with no hidden agendas. The party also called for the new charter to stipulate that all state officials disclose their assets, and for inspections to be allowed on private entities that are unusually wealthy.

The Phuea Thai representatives also suggested that a referendum be conducted for the charter, in order to make it complete and accepted by the public.

General Lertrat added that all political parties have met with charter drafters to express their ideas about the new constitution. Currently, the People's Alliance for Democracy and the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship have yet to make their suggestions

-- NNT 2014-12-13

[rubl]

The start of all of these troubles began with the coup of 2006. The 2007 constitution was rushed and really not thought through carefully. At the time of that coup there was much discontent from the people of taksin and even discontent within his own party. Other parties were developing and gaining popularity. Taksin would have been voted out years ago, if the democratic system had been allowed to take its course.

Changes to parliment and constitutions (even when flawed) can take decades.

It my universe and timeline troubles were brewing for a while already with PM Thaksin getting more and more autocratic. The final straw was the selling of Shinawatra Holding shares in Telecom the day a law came into effect which allowed it, a law promoted by the Thaksin government. Not paying tax on the transaction was a nice touch as well although more a loophole in laws.

The 2007 constitution was at least 90% the same as the 1997 constitution with various improvements and the contentious amnesty for the coup involved. No doubt Gen Sonthi having become a proper elected MP voted for the blanket amnesty bill just to be sure.

[rubl]

Somehow I get the impression that Pheu Thai was less obstructive when they were in their non-cooperating mood

[otherstuff1957]

PT against amnesty for LM?

Well, this is a nice bit of hypocrisy. What exactly does PT stand for? Free speech? Democracy? An end to "corruption and lawlessness"? Apparently not!

I somehow suspect that PT's stance would abruptly change if Thaksin was charged with LM.

[tbthailand]

well, well, well, someone is finally calling out the courts and the 'independent' organizations for what they are: biased.

It's seems normal that PTP would attack some of the tools in the 2007 constitution which existed solely to wield leverage over political parties which the elite do not like.

it's also good to see that criticizing court judgements would no longer be against the law. That was just LM-lite.

Although no amnesty for LM prisoners - that just shows that the cult of LM is too strong in Thailand. Everyone knows that LM is a political tool and if some yellow-shirt, snot-nosed elite can convince a yellow judge that they feel like you committed LM, then you go to jail.

Perfect example is the shopping mall fellow who wrote graffiti against the 'NCPO'. Apparently it had nothing to do with the monarchy but he is being charged with LM, tried in the military court in a closed trial. Can't imagine what the outcome will be.

[terryp]

thailand will never change its a lost cause..too much in-breading of the elites (just like Europe) and corruption

I guess PT next suggestion will be that there should be NO arrests for bribes/corruption etc if its less than a trillion baht

[tbthailand]

PT against amnesty for LM?

Well, this is a nice bit of hypocrisy. What exactly does PT stand for? Free speech? Democracy? An end to "corruption and lawlessness"? Apparently not!

I somehow suspect that PT's stance would abruptly change if Thaksin was charged with LM.

I agree that it is unjust for PT to be against the amnesty for LM, but LM is a huge political hot-potato. If you are against LM, then you would be seen as being unpatriotic, which in extreme circumstances could lead to a charge of LM... oops.

[Chang_paarp]

Phuea Thai proposes new charter do away with Constitutional Court, banning of party executives

BANGKOK, 13 December 2014 (NNT) – The Phuea Thai Party has proposed doing away with the Constitutional Court and the banning of party executives who were not directly involved with wrongdoings from politics, during a meeting between party representatives and the Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC).

General Lertrat Rattanawanit, Constitution Drafting Committee spokesperson, said many of the proposals made by Phuea Thai representatives were in line with the ideas of the charter drafting committee. The Phuea Thai Party delegation, led by Bhokin Bhalakula, Samat Kaewmichai and First Lieutenant Prichaphon Phongphanit, proposed that amnesty for constitution invalidators should not be included in the upcoming charter.

The party also proposed that the public be able to criticize the judgement of courts without being an offense, so long as the criticisms are made academically or with no hidden agendas. The party also called for the new charter to stipulate that all state officials disclose their assets, and for inspections to be allowed on private entities that are unusually wealthy.

The Phuea Thai representatives also suggested that a referendum be conducted for the charter, in order to make it complete and accepted by the public.

General Lertrat added that all political parties have met with charter drafters to express their ideas about the new constitution. Currently, the People's Alliance for Democracy and the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship have yet to make their suggestions

-- NNT 2014-12-13

Now there is a surprise! PT wanting to do away with the court that disbanded the past 2 incarnations of their party for not following the rules. Surely it is not that hard to follow the written instructions from the electoral authorities.

[Docno]

PT against amnesty for LM?

Well, this is a nice bit of hypocrisy. What exactly does PT stand for? Free speech? Democracy? An end to "corruption and lawlessness"? Apparently not!

I somehow suspect that PT's stance would abruptly change if Thaksin was charged with LM.

I agree that it is unjust for PT to be against the amnesty for LM, but LM is a huge political hot-potato. If you are against LM, then you would be seen as being unpatriotic, which in extreme circumstances could lead to a charge of LM... oops.

Agreed. From the beginning, the opposition has tried to paint TRT/PTP/Reds as essentially (small-r) republican. There is still a lot of mistrust and suspicion on this count, so PTP needs to show itself to be 100% in support of the monarchy. If they were to suggest a pull-back from the current LM laws, their 'enemies' would simply it to resurrect the republican image they've tried foster.

[wandasloan]

PT against amnesty for LM?

Yet another silly story.

Have you seen the list of people and groups that are in favour of granting amnesty for lese majeste offences? I'll put it right here for you so it is clear for all:

[rubl]

PT against amnesty for LM?

Yet another silly story.

Have you seen the list of people and groups that are in favour of granting amnesty for lese majeste offences? I'll put it right here for you so it is clear for all:

Makes you wonder all the more why Pheu Thai has come out (now) with this statement. Are they just trying to deflect or make the suggestion on amnesty as made by former Pheu Thai party list MP and UDD co-leader spokesperson Nattuwut more palatable ?

[Robby nz]

Not really surprising they want the constitution court disbanded for it was one of the institutions they found out they were unable to control or to affect with budget cuts, as they managed to do with several other checks and balances entities.

Anything that prevents politicians having a free hand to break or bend the law should not only be retained but strengthened.

[Mojomor]

Strange. I thought politicians had been banned from making political statements.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Not really surprising they want the constitution court disbanded for it was one of the institutions they found out they were unable to control or to affect with budget cuts, as they managed to do with several other checks and balances entities.

Anything that prevents politicians having a free hand to break or bend the law should not only be retained but strengthened.

Well said three times.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Phuea Thai proposes new charter do away with Constitutional Court, banning of party executives

BANGKOK, 13 December 2014 (NNT) – The Phuea Thai Party has proposed doing away with the Constitutional Court and the banning of party executives who were not directly involved with wrongdoings from politics, during a meeting between party representatives and the Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC).

General Lertrat Rattanawanit, Constitution Drafting Committee spokesperson, said many of the proposals made by Phuea Thai representatives were in line with the ideas of the charter drafting committee. The Phuea Thai Party delegation, led by Bhokin Bhalakula, Samat Kaewmichai and First Lieutenant Prichaphon Phongphanit, proposed that amnesty for constitution invalidators should not be included in the upcoming charter.

The party also proposed that the public be able to criticize the judgement of courts without being an offense, so long as the criticisms are made academically or with no hidden agendas. The party also called for the new charter to stipulate that all state officials disclose their assets, and for inspections to be allowed on private entities that are unusually wealthy.

The Phuea Thai representatives also suggested that a referendum be conducted for the charter, in order to make it complete and accepted by the public.

General Lertrat added that all political parties have met with charter drafters to express their ideas about the new constitution. Currently, the People's Alliance for Democracy and the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship have yet to make their suggestions


-- NNT 2014-12-13

Now there is a surprise! PT wanting to do away with the court that disbanded the past 2 incarnations of their party for not following the rules. Surely it is not that hard to follow the written instructions from the electoral authorities.

Well said three times.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

well, well, well, someone is finally calling out the courts and the 'independent' organizations for what they are: biased.

It's seems normal that PTP would attack some of the tools in the 2007 constitution which existed solely to wield leverage over political parties which the elite do not like.

it's also good to see that criticizing court judgements would no longer be against the law. That was just LM-lite.

Although no amnesty for LM prisoners - that just shows that the cult of LM is too strong in Thailand. Everyone knows that LM is a political tool and if some yellow-shirt, snot-nosed elite can convince a yellow judge that they feel like you committed LM, then you go to jail.

Perfect example is the shopping mall fellow who wrote graffiti against the 'NCPO'. Apparently it had nothing to do with the monarchy but he is being charged with LM, tried in the military court in a closed trial. Can't imagine what the outcome will be. alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

Not heard of that case, please share some details.

[wandasloan]

Makes you wonder all the more why Pheu Thai has come out (now) with this statement. Are they just trying to deflect or make the suggestion on amnesty as made by former Pheu Thai party list MP and UDD co-leader spokesperson Nattuwut more palatable ?

Not at all. The story makes it very clear they were "invited" (as the current regime puts it so very well) to give an opinion at the Constitution Drafting Committee. So they gave one.

But it is the same statement any invited person or group would make. "Lese majeste? Are you kidding? No amnesty! No kid gloves! No civilian courts or bail or mollycoddling of any kind". What else would anyone say, let alone an "invited" political party representative? What would YOU say to a committee inside a room guarded by armed soldiers?

That is why I say it is a silly story. The only possible story that would be news would be Pheu Thai (or anyone or any group) saying they want amnesty for lese majeste arrestees and convicts. In any forum in the land. THAT would be news, all right.

[rubl]

Strange. I thought politicians had been banned from making political statements.

I think you just gave the wrong interpretation.

Obviously Pheu Thai had a change of heart / direction from non-cooperation to enthusiastic cooperation with the various committees set up by the NCPO. They seem out to prove they are more reform minded than anyone else

[rubl]

Makes you wonder all the more why Pheu Thai has come out (now) with this statement. Are they just trying to deflect or make the suggestion on amnesty as made by former Pheu Thai party list MP and UDD co-leader spokesperson Nattuwut more palatable ?

Not at all. The story makes it very clear they were "invited" (as the current regime puts it so very well) to give an opinion at the Constitution Drafting Committee. So they gave one.

But it is the same statement any invited person or group would make. "Lese majeste? Are you kidding? No amnesty! No kid gloves! No civilian courts or bail or mollycoddling of any kind". What else would anyone say, let alone an "invited" political party representative? What would YOU say to a committee inside a room guarded by armed soldiers?

That is why I say it is a silly story. The only possible story that would be news would be Pheu Thai (or anyone or any group) saying they want amnesty for lese majeste arrestees and convicts. In any forum in the land. THAT would be news, all right.

'invited' ?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/776291-plodprasob-says-pheu-thai-will-not-join-charter-writing-process/page-4#entry8676362

[wandasloan]

'invited' ?

I'm not sure of course, but you SEEM to be saying that Pheu Thai burst in without notice, submitted recommendations without permission, and started talking without leave and out of order.

I stated they were invited to speak and to submit their recommendations. I'd be very, very interested (to say the least) in any evidence you have to the contrary.

.

[Eric Loh]

Not only PT is saying that the constitutional court played key roles in Thai politics and is still the primary tool for Bangkok traditional elite establishment's control of Thailand. Even the former CC Presient Wasan had admitted political interference in Samak disqualification. Human Right Watch has spoken about court abuse of power. The Truth Commission said that the CC should be especially careful in their use of power. Many influential newspaper like Thai Rath wrote about the CC creating a new institution of their own to govern Thailand. The court even corrupt their power in economic affairs like stopping the infrastructure projects like the HIgh Speed Train saying it was against sufficiency ecooic theory. Of course, it is clear now that they are wrong as the current regime continue with the projects. PT has a point.

[rubl]

'invited' ?

I'm not sure of course, but you SEEM to be saying that Pheu Thai burst in without notice, submitted recommendations without permission, and started talking without leave and out of order.

I stated they were invited to speak and to submit their recommendations. I'd be very, very interested (to say the least) in any evidence you have to the contrary.

.

You removed the link I provided on purpose I assume ?

[candide]

Can approving amnesty for LM crimes be considered as LM?