Sydney siege: Gunman takes hostages in Lindt cafe

[canman]

What tep dexterm and a few other posters know and won't admit is ISIS have been reaching out to the world muslim community asking for muslims to carry out these lone wolf attacks.

This muslim nutter in sydney is one of many lone wolves answering the ISIS call.

Whatever way you look at it..it was a terrorist attack and one in a style I expect we will see more of.

Provide evidence of your statement that I am in possession of information relating to the Sydney hostage incident that resulted in the deaths of two Australian citizens immediately or withdraw that statement. You have defamed me with this statement and I am taking action as a consequence.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks

[Credo]

Frankly i agree with you to an extent. The west should just let the muslim world get on with wiping each other out. All western intervention, aid, business, diplomatic missons etc should be withdrawn and just let them get on with it. Give them 50 years on their own and they will be back where they were 1500 years ago.

Unfortunately a lot of other people get in the way.

[Morch]

dexterm wrote..

and in my mind puts the bigots on a par with the crazed fanatic perp.

Morch replied

A mind which equates perceived bigotry on an internet forum with actually taking hostages in a downtown cafe.

Hyperbole much?

Far from hyperbole.

History tells us there’s a thin veneer between an apparently normal citizen and one who would gladly participate in racist atrocities, or if not, would cheer from the sidelines. It’s a short step from “I didn’t know” to “I was only following orders".

There’s a very interesting article about increased racist abuse on Australian public transport which has now escalated to racist emails from a senior University of Sydney academic and Abbott government consultant

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/are-we-all-to-blame-for-racism-in-australia/story-fnixwvgh-1227101933576?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=lifestyle

Well I am the sort of guy who stands up and says “leave them alone”.

No, you are the sort of guy who would insinuate that someone offering an opposing view to yours on an internet forum is the same as an actual terrorist. While this is indeed one of TVF's long standing traditions, it is nothing to be proud about.

So until that time where you can actually point out to another poster doing anything more than expressing his views on the forum (even if these are unpalatable), it would be appreciated if you limit your assertions on these matters to the confines of your alleged mind.

From the news.com article "Mr Boumzar is not evil, just an ignorant punk who is responding to the influences around him. He deserves to be lead off in handcuffs, and will face charges for his crime."

If find it quaint that people expressing racist or bigoted views claim that they are just expressing their opinion or an opposing opinion from the PC crowned. In fact they are either committing or inciting the committal of a crime in Australia as evidenced by Mr. Boumzar being 'lead off in handcuffs'. If not criminals, they are certainly enablers and facilitators of hate crimes. I still trust that there re more Australians who respect diversity #illridewithyou than otherwise and these citizens will help stamp out such criminal acts either through intervention, peer pressure or using media to expose these actions.

I have nothing but contempt for the likes of Mr. Boumzar.

Still don't see that posts on TVF are "on par" with the actions of Mr. Monis (which was the original point addressed).

[canman]

Amirah Droudis, wife of the Sydney siege gunman,was granted bail despite facing charges for alleged murder

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2878114/Wife-Sydney-siege-gunman-self-proclaimed-terrorist-Amirah-Droudis-faces-review-decision-release-bail-MURDER-free-place.html#ixzz3MEQW7t6K

AUSTRALIA!!!! Wake the F up!!!

[dragonfly94]

Politicians are terrified of the Islamic community in Australia and will never associate Islam and this guy in the same breath. Politicians are after the votes of the fast growing Islamic community in Australia and will stand shoulder to shoulder with them no matter how much death and destruction they cause. Australian politicians are cowards just like those they defend for a single vote and Australia can go down the toilet for all they care as long as they have a job and support of Islam.

Breathtaking bullshit.

Totally false when taking into consideration policy, actions and legislation of Federal Government to address radical Islam.

which have been what exactly? they did not even have the bottle to take this guy out when they had clean shots on his head. The we thought he might have had a bomb are nothing more than weak excuses for a weak response. No way one man should have been able to drag this out for so long, the deaths could have been avoided if the cops been pro active, their do nothing response will only encourage others.

[Neurath]

There must have been someone in Australia that could have been tortured to find out about the intentions of this lunatic and so head off this tragedy.

[Tep]

What tep dexterm and a few other posters know and won't admit is ISIS have been reaching out to the world muslim community asking for muslims to carry out these lone wolf attacks.

This muslim nutter in sydney is one of many lone wolves answering the ISIS call.

Whatever way you look at it..it was a terrorist attack and one in a style I expect we will see more of.

Provide evidence of your statement that I am in possession of information relating to the Sydney hostage incident that resulted in the deaths of two Australian citizens immediately or withdraw that statement. You have defamed me with this statement and I am taking action as a consequence.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks

What's your problem? It worked didn't it?

I do not fit the demographic of the majority on these types of threads. The old, reactionary pensioners with nothing else to do with their days take this fluff way too seriously.

[transam]

What tep dexterm and a few other posters know and won't admit is ISIS have been reaching out to the world muslim community asking for muslims to carry out these lone wolf attacks.

This muslim nutter in sydney is one of many lone wolves answering the ISIS call.

Whatever way you look at it..it was a terrorist attack and one in a style I expect we will see more of.

Provide evidence of your statement that I am in possession of information relating to the Sydney hostage incident that resulted in the deaths of two Australian citizens immediately or withdraw that statement. You have defamed me with this statement and I am taking action as a consequence.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks

What's your problem? It worked didn't it?

I do not fit the demographic of the majority on these types of threads. The old, reactionary pensioners with nothing else to do with their days take this fluff way too seriously.

You know who is a pensioner poster here......?

You admin or something.........?

[H1w4yR1da]

This guy was just a nut. Religion aside he was out on bail as an accessory to his wife's murder and had a number of sexual assault convictions against his name. Religion was just an excuse for a deranged man. We cannot blame religion for this one people

Right right!

The guy who cut the woman's head off in London was 'just a nut'.

The guy who attacked and killed the Canadian soldier guarding the war memorial was 'just a nut'.

The guy who attacked the Canadian Parliament building was 'just a nut'.

The guy who tried to blow up a airliner with explosives in his shoe was 'just a nut'.

The guy who tried to blow up a airliner with explosives in his underpants was 'just a nut'.

Hmmm, I guess there're a lot of nutters out there. Just choosing completely random targets. Nothing political at all!

But I'm wondering! What other thing do they all have in common? Give me a second, it'll come to me.

Hang on! I think these guys are about to show me the answer

.....

[F4UCorsair]

Politicians are terrified of the Islamic community in Australia and will never associate Islam and this guy in the same breath. Politicians are after the votes of the fast growing Islamic community in Australia and will stand shoulder to shoulder with them no matter how much death and destruction they cause. Australian politicians are cowards just like those they defend for a single vote and Australia can go down the toilet for all they care as long as they have a job and support of Islam.

Breathtaking bullshit.

Totally false when taking into consideration policy, actions and legislation of Federal Government to address radical Islam.

which have been what exactly? they did not even have the bottle to take this guy out when they had clean shots on his head. The we thought he might have had a bomb are nothing more than weak excuses for a weak response. No way one man should have been able to drag this out for so long, the deaths could have been avoided if the cops been pro active, their do nothing response will only encourage others.

I agree entirely, but I say the same of any siege. When any person takes hostages, or threatens others, he should be in the sights of a police sniper.I care not if his wife has left him, he's gone bankrupt, lost his job, or any one of myriad other 'excuses'.....he should be summarily executed before he harms others. I say the same of car chases, one of which occurred in Perth (I think) earlier today, or maybe it was yesterday). A marksman in a police helicopter should kill the driver as soon as he's in a position where a loss of control of the vehicle won't harm others. Then, and only then, will this BS of sieges come to a stop. I'm over losers inconveniencing others for no reason other than to attract attention.

Edited December 18, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[H1w4yR1da]

And here is the terrorist. .err..I mean...lone nut job in a recent demonstration in Oz.

Nothing to do with Islam of course.

Edited December 18, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[neverdie]

Amirah Droudis, wife of the Sydney siege gunman,was granted bail despite facing charges for alleged murder

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2878114/Wife-Sydney-siege-gunman-self-proclaimed-terrorist-Amirah-Droudis-faces-review-decision-release-bail-MURDER-free-place.html#ixzz3MEQW7t6K

AUSTRALIA!!!! Wake the F up!!!

It's really bad in New South Wales.

There's hardly a decent Local Court Magistrate anywhere.

These old cronies should be sacked and thrown into prison for their pathetic attempts.

Disgusting Criminal Justice System....an utter disgrace.

[H1w4yR1da]

I do not fit the demographic of the majority on these types of threads. The old, reactionary pensioners with nothing else to do with their days take this fluff way too seriously.

The old 'can't win an argument so I'll resort to attacking other posters' ploy?

[simple1]

Politicians are terrified of the Islamic community in Australia and will never associate Islam and this guy in the same breath. Politicians are after the votes of the fast growing Islamic community in Australia and will stand shoulder to shoulder with them no matter how much death and destruction they cause. Australian politicians are cowards just like those they defend for a single vote and Australia can go down the toilet for all they care as long as they have a job and support of Islam.

Breathtaking bullshit.

Totally false when taking into consideration policy, actions and legislation of Federal Government to address radical Islam.

which have been what exactly? they did not even have the bottle to take this guy out when they had clean shots on his head. The we thought he might have had a bomb are nothing more than weak excuses for a weak response. No way one man should have been able to drag this out for so long, the deaths could have been avoided if the cops been pro active, their do nothing response will only encourage others.

If you and others wish to knock off Federal government policy, actions and legislation to address terror / Islamic extremism in the past year why not do some research & give a heads up on where you believe the shortfalls are.

I for one am not going to indulge in critiquing the actions of NSW Police in handling the crisis. I understand a report on a number of matters leading up to the siege and subsequent actions is going to published in the coming three months or so; let's see what the report says.

[Tep]

I do not fit the demographic of the majority on these types of threads. The old, reactionary pensioners with nothing else to do with their days take this fluff way too seriously.

The old 'can't win an argument so I'll resort to attacking other posters' ploy?

Most certainly not. If any poster puts words in my mouth that I have not said and defames me then they will have the same consequences. Rule violators get posts deleted as you well know. Then they get suspended. Then they get banned. This tactic was employed on more than one TVF member in this thread and there were consequences for it. Argue and comment on what I say by all means but only a coward would put words in another person's mouth to make a petty point. Search my posting history. I have never done this. I like most indulge in ad hominem tactics but only on posters who attack me. From that point I do not take what they say seriously. As you also well know.

[Ulysses G.]

You do know that everyone can see your post that he was commenting on - going on about "old, reactionary pensioners with nothing else to do "? Those are YOUR own words. No one put them in your mouth, but you.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[neverdie]

You do know that everyone can see your post that he was commenting on - going on about "old, reactionary pensioners with nothing else to do "? Those are YOUR own words. No one put them in your mouth, but you.

Not real sharp, is he !

55555

[Farma]

So tep despite overwhelming evidence of the sydney nutters islamic links you still deny it.

As for implying I'm an old reactionary pensioner it just goes to prove how little you know.

[Scott]

Continued off-topic baiting of other members will result in a suspension. Discuss the topic, not other posters.

[OZEMADE]

After debriefing Police and Hostages some more has come to light.

It has now come out that Monis told the hostages they would all be dead in the morning and he later shot two hostages after some escaped again.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/25792328/you-will-be-dead-in-morning-hostages-told/

Someone is telling porkies

From the link

"Court documents from 2011 reveal Monis had a gun licence while working as a security officer but it had expired. But NSW Police on Wednesday said there's no record of Monis having held a firearms licence."

There were no court documents or computer readouts or entries in NSW stating that Monis had a gun licence. All licences are issued by the state you live in and there are no records in NSW that Monis had ever had or had ever been issued a gun licence. However the Australian Federal Police (AFP) stated that Monis had a gun licence, which was later found to be a computer error on behalf of the AFP.

[richard peters]

There are a lot of questions now being asked in Australia. Unanswered questions as to why it was so badly conducted, right from the time they let this mentally unbalanced killer into Oz. Then they granted him Social Welfare, citizenship, gun licence, etc, plus bail when he was a suspected accessory to his former wife's murder; - Also the more professional army special forces should have handled this one! The police and other Govt. officials have been harassing old geriatrics, pensioners & law abiding citizens for financial gain, but not spending enough time investigating some of these foreign immigrant 'Nutters' so they are partially to blame for the problem.

[chooka]

There are a lot of questions now being asked in Australia. Unanswered questions as to why it was so badly conducted, right from the time they let this mentally unbalanced killer into Oz. Then they granted him Social Welfare, citizenship, gun licence, etc, plus bail when he was a suspected accessory to his former wife's murder; - Also the more professional army special forces should have handled this one! The police and other Govt. officials have been harassing old geriatrics, pensioners & law abiding citizens for financial gain, but not spending enough time investigating some of these foreign immigrant 'Nutters' so they are partially to blame for the problem.

The police did an excellent job and are extremely highly trained. Australia is very different to places like the U.S where deadly force is used first and negotiations come last. The police were negotiating a non violence end to this and that was the likely outcome. People died because of thier own actions in trying to disarm an armed man. They did what they thought was the right decision and we're heros but nobody can blame the police for what happened. A lot of people have phd ' in hindsight

The police didn't let him into the country they had no say in that. Police stringently opposed bail so you can't blame them for that.

[simple1]

There are a lot of questions now being asked in Australia. Unanswered questions as to why it was so badly conducted, right from the time they let this mentally unbalanced killer into Oz. Then they granted him Social Welfare, citizenship, gun licence, etc, plus bail when he was a suspected accessory to his former wife's murder; - Also the more professional army special forces should have handled this one! The police and other Govt. officials have been harassing old geriatrics, pensioners & law abiding citizens for financial gain, but not spending enough time investigating some of these foreign immigrant 'Nutters' so they are partially to blame for the problem.

The police did an excellent job and are extremely highly trained. Australia is very different to places like the U.S where deadly force is used first and negotiations come last. The police were negotiating a non violence end to this and that was the likely outcome. People died because of thier own actions in trying to disarm an armed man. They did what they thought was the right decision and we're heros but nobody can blame the police for what happened. A lot of people have phd ' in hindsight

The police didn't let him into the country they had no say in that. Police stringently opposed bail so you can't blame them for that.

Just to add in today's media it is reported the guy originally entered Australia in 1996 on a three month business visa & after arriving applied for asylum. He gained Oz citizenship four years after being granted asylum.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/sydney-siege-man-haron-monis-flew-in-on-a-business-visa/story-fnqxbywy-1227161198324

[whybother]

There are a lot of questions now being asked in Australia. Unanswered questions as to why it was so badly conducted, right from the time they let this mentally unbalanced killer into Oz. Then they granted him Social Welfare, citizenship, gun licence, etc, plus bail when he was a suspected accessory to his former wife's murder; - Also the more professional army special forces should have handled this one! The police and other Govt. officials have been harassing old geriatrics, pensioners & law abiding citizens for financial gain, but not spending enough time investigating some of these foreign immigrant 'Nutters' so they are partially to blame for the problem.

According to the State police, he didn't have a gun licence.

[Steely Dan]

Here's a rather large coincidence. The head of Sydney's Halal certification board and his wife were seen leaving the Lindt cafe just an hour before the gunman stormed in. The Cafe has refused to pay Halal certification Jizya and what happens? The parallels between the modus opperendi of the Mafia and political Islam are indeed remarkable.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/12/halal-certification-boss-widely-reported-as-having-left-sydney-cafe-just-before-jihad-siege-began-now-denies-having-been-there

[F4UCorsair]

Here's a rather large coincidence. The head of Sydney's Halal certification board and his wife were seen leaving the Lindt cafe just an hour before the gunman stormed in. The Cafe has refused to pay Halal certification Jizya and what happens? The parallels between the modus opperendi of the Mafia and political Islam are indeed remarkable.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/12/halal-certification-boss-widely-reported-as-having-left-sydney-cafe-just-before-jihad-siege-began-now-denies-having-been-there

Nothing about that religion surprises me, except, perhaps, the number of 'lone wolf' attacks around the world, that aren't associated with islam at all. The fact that the 'lone wolves' say it is in the name of islam, wear islamic fancy dress, and display islamic terrorist flags, doesn't really make them islam associated though.........

does it??

Edited December 19, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[CharlieH]

Flame post removed

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[dragonfly94]

Nothing about that religion surprises me, except, perhaps, the number of 'lone wolf' attacks around the world, that aren't associated with islam at all. The fact that the 'lone wolves' say it is in the name of islam, wear islamic fancy dress, and display islamic terrorist flags, doesn't really make them islam associated though.........

does it??

What more could they do to associate themselves with Islam? The killer of lee Rigby stood in the Street and screamed that the Koran made him do it. No difference between an Isis army, the 9/11 hijackers or a Muslim on his own. If they are inspired by the Koran and give that as their inspiration then they could hardly associate themselves closer to Islam. Lone wolf attacks are inspired by Islam and encouraged as far harder to detect and stop than group action.

[simple1]

Here's a rather large coincidence. The head of Sydney's Halal certification board and his wife were seen leaving the Lindt cafe just an hour before the gunman stormed in. The Cafe has refused to pay Halal certification Jizya and what happens? The parallels between the modus opperendi of the Mafia and political Islam are indeed remarkable.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/12/halal-certification-boss-widely-reported-as-having-left-sydney-cafe-just-before-jihad-siege-began-now-denies-having-been-there

The gunman didn't "storm in", an ex lawyer of his has been reported as noticing the guy having a coffee when he went into the cafe, briefly conversed with him and peacefully departed.

The facts are currently unknown as to what really triggered the armed takeover of the cafe. However, it has been widely reported his final appeal against a harrassement conviction about which he was obsessed, was finally rejected by the High Court on the Friday, the hostage event was on the following Monday.

[canman]

Here's a rather large coincidence. The head of Sydney's Halal certification board and his wife were seen leaving the Lindt cafe just an hour before the gunman stormed in. The Cafe has refused to pay Halal certification Jizya and what happens? The parallels between the modus opperendi of the Mafia and political Islam are indeed remarkable.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/12/halal-certification-boss-widely-reported-as-having-left-sydney-cafe-just-before-jihad-siege-began-now-denies-having-been-there

I read an email supposedly from an ex ASIO operative with quite a few details about Mr. Halal certification, I suspect it's BS but wouldn't be suprised if there turned out to be a connection.