Russia's gay community in fear as homophobic attacks increase

[Tep]

What is wrong with this? One of my biggest regrets, as a parent, is that my son will not have children. Aren't my feelings about this normal and natural, rather than being indicative of a 'hater'? If most parents feel this way, as they appear to do in Russia, then it is perfectly reasonable to not expose children to alternatives, when they are at a vulnerable stage. The practice of 'grooming' does exist and should not be allowed. If a minor left alone would choose a conventional lifestyle, isn't it a form of corruption to seduce him or her into making a different choice? I choose the word 'seduce' deliberately. Education should be done, without promoting the lifestyle. I totally agree with acceptance and tolerance but not promotion.

Your first post on this issue claimed that LGBT people were not normal or engaged in normal activity. This is not a feeling. This is an assertion based on ignorance.

I am not a gay activist. I am not a gay rights activist. But I object to groups of people being attacked with slurs based on ignorance. It is hate speech and I call it out as such.

You want information? That is reasonable. But you don't think it better not to insult the people who you want that information from?

You continue to use words and phrases inappropriately. You use words and phrases that are associated with activities of pedophiles in the context of LGBT issues. You use the word 'choose'. All this points to your agenda. Stop using those words and stope perpetuating these tactics and maybe people, including me, will talk to you.

[Choctastic]

Your first post on this issue claimed that LGBT people were not normal or engaged in normal activity.

My first post did nothing of the kind.

This is not a feeling. This is an assertion based on ignorance.

There is no ignorance in observing the exaggerated movements of ladyboys and finding them 'not normal'. It is a clearly a learned behaviour.

I am not a gay activist. I am not a gay rights activist. But I object to groups of people being attacked with slurs based on ignorance. It is hate speech and I call it out as such.

Flailing at windmills. You are far too serious for your own good.

You want information? That is reasonable. But you don't think it better not to insult the people who you want that information from?

I do not want any information from you.

You continue to use words and phrases inappropriately. You use words and phrases that are associated with activities of pedophiles in the context of LGBT issues. You use the word 'choose'. All this points to your agenda. Stop using those words and stope perpetuating these tactics and maybe people, including me, will talk to you.

I will sign up for re-education camp, if you stop using the word 'Gay'.

[sustento]

Your first post on this issue claimed that LGBT people were not normal or engaged in normal activity.

My first post did nothing of the kind.

This is not a feeling. This is an assertion based on ignorance.

There is no ignorance in observing the exaggerated movements of ladyboys and finding them 'not normal'. It is a clearly a learned behaviour.

If you think that ladyboys represent (or are even part of) the gay population then you really have no idea.

[Tep]

Your first post on this issue claimed that LGBT people were not normal or engaged in normal activity.

My first post did nothing of the kind.

Post 53. You said "Such behaviour is not 'natural' but contrived". Right at the beginning. Perhaps you don't realise that your posts are open for all to see? Or that there is a record of them?

That is propagating hate speech. It is propagating ignorance. Despite your hate speech, I offered you an opportunity for dialogue. You respond with puerile, juvenile quips that further demonstrate your ignorance. You confirm yourself as a hater. There is no dialogue with you. Your views are now marginal. You are easily dismissed and ignored. And despised.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Tep

[Choctastic]

If you think that ladyboys represent (or are even part of)the gay population then you really have no idea.

If the label LBGT doesn't include ladyboys, then you are correct.

[sustento]

If you think that ladyboys represent (or are even part of)the gay population then you really have no idea.

If the label LBGT doesn't include ladyboys, then you are correct.

Let me give you a couple of thoughts to ponder on that many straight men don't seem to be able to 'get'. I'm not saying you're one of them by the way.

Gay men are attracted to other men - that is to other men who actually look like men. That's the whole point of being gay. Where do you think that ladyboys fit into this scenario? Why would gay men be attracted to someone who looks like a woman?

Ladyboys do all they can (sometimes to the point of removing their genitalia which is pretty extreme by any standards) to be women. This automatically reduces their attractiveness to gay men who, as I said, are attracted other men. Why is a ladyboy who does this assumed to be gay?

[Choctastic]

Ladyboys do all they can (sometimes to the point of removing their genitalia which is pretty extreme by any standards) to be women. This automatically reduces their attractiveness to gay men who, as I said, are attracted other men. Why is a ladyboy who does this assumed to be gay?

I don't assume this, nor have I ever met anyone who does.

Coming back to the law that has triggered these 'homophobic' attacks. The law is aimed at 'non-traditional' relations. Ladyboys are clearly non-traditional.

Here is the statement again.. 'Alekseevs arguments that his actions were not propaganda, but were aimed at spreading objective information, which cannot inflict harm to health, moral or spiritual development of minors. Alekseevs claim was contradicted by the materials in the case, the court said.'

Perhaps to Alekseev the material was 'education' and to the court 'propaganda'. I don't know. However, it does beggar a fundamental question, which thus far, the forum 'lobby' has avoided answering, preferring personal attacks. Is it possible to 'push' a minor towards a behaviour they would not adopt, in the absence of promotion? In other words, can youngsters be 'groomed' or seduced into choosing a non-traditional lifestyle? Common sense should tell you that if a youngster was responding to 'natural' and 'normal' imperatives, there would be no need for 'grooming'. The fact that grooming does occur, shows that some youngsters CAN be swayed.

If you agree, shouldn't the LGBT community exercise restraint and NOT target the young? And if they refuse, doesn't the State have a responsibility to protect impressionable youngsters?

The usual modus operandi of the U.S. media is to accuse other (targeted) nations of doing what YOU are doing. Violence against the LGBT community also occurs in the U.S. I had to search for it since the media are too busy Russia-bashing to properly inform the public. This link mentions the problem...

'Deceptive Gender Benders, Sexual Predators, and Homicidal Homos: The Ongoing Criminalization of LGBTQ People in the U.S.'

http://wgs.fas.harvard.edu/event/after-marriage-11-13

'violence against gay men, lesbians, bisexual and transgender people is part and parcel of the U.S. criminal legal system which perpetually profiles, prosecutes and punishes LGBTQ people, particularly LGBTQ people of color.

'Moguls talk will look at how queer and trans people are categorized and dehumanized by popular stereotypes and how this demonization directly leads to violence against them in the criminal legal system and U.S. society as whole. Mogul will also interrogate the limits of anti-discrimination laws, both locally and on the federal level, in addressing this systemic violence.'

It's not just Russia, then.

[sustento]

Ladyboys do all they can (sometimes to the point of removing their genitalia which is pretty extreme by any standards) to be women. This automatically reduces their attractiveness to gay men who, as I said, are attracted other men. Why is a ladyboy who does this assumed to be gay?

I don't assume this, nor have I ever met anyone who does.

Coming back to the law that has triggered these 'homophobic' attacks. The law is aimed at 'non-traditional' relations. Ladyboys are clearly non-traditional.

Here is the statement again.. 'Alekseevs arguments that his actions were not propaganda, but were aimed at spreading objective information, which cannot inflict harm to health, moral or spiritual development of minors. Alekseevs claim was contradicted by the materials in the case, the court said.'

Perhaps to Alekseev the material was 'education' and to the court 'propaganda'. I don't know. However, it does beggar a fundamental question, which thus far, the forum 'lobby' has avoided answering, preferring personal attacks. Is it possible to 'push' a minor towards a behaviour they would not adopt, in the absence of promotion? In other words, can youngsters be 'groomed' or seduced into choosing a non-traditional lifestyle? Common sense should tell you that if a youngster was responding to 'natural' and 'normal' imperatives, there would be no need for 'grooming'. The fact that grooming does occur, shows that some youngsters CAN be swayed.

If you agree, shouldn't the LGBT community exercise restraint and NOT target the young? And if they refuse, doesn't the State have a responsibility to protect impressionable youngsters?

You keep using words like 'minor' and 'youngster'. Are you talking about people who are above the age of consent or not?

If both parties in any sexual encounter are above the age of consent and the act is consensual then I don't see what the problem is. Would you feel the same way about a straight couple having sex?

If someone below the age of consent is suborned into sexual activity then the person who did it should be prosecuted regardless of their gender or orientation.

You also keep using the words 'natural' and 'normal'. In what sense are you using them? To a gay person sex with a member of the same sex is natural.

Your whole post seems to assume that being straight is somehow 'better' than being gay. The only truth in that is that you're much less likely to have the crap beaten out of you for being straight.

[harryfrompattaya]

Why are gay so lazy

Now go to streets in Europe and America around the Russia Embassy chain yourself to the gates of the Russia Embassy Worldwide Jewelry did it get its people out of Soviet Union.

If not that go to the street s and riot like us black do

but no you post

No good Do somehing

[sustento]

Why are gay so lazy

Now go to streets in Europe and America around the Russia Embassy chain yourself to the gates of the Russia Embassy Worldwide Jewelry did it get its people out of Soviet Union.

If not that go to the street s and riot like us black do

but no you post

No good Do somehing

I'm really interested in the Worldwide Jewelry. Can you get me a discount?

[harryfrompattaya]

Why are gay so lazy

Now go to streets in Europe and America around the Russia Embassy chain yourself to the gates of the Russia Embassy Worldwide Jewelry did it get its people out of Soviet Union.

If not that go to the street s and riot like us black do

but no you post

No good Do somehing

I'm really interested in the Worldwide Jewelry. Can you get me a discount?

very funny so youcan spell You know what I mean

I am 87 years old went to 3rd grade

What have done to bring Justice to the world?

Did you ever shoot a pig?

Edited December 20, 2014 by harryfrompattaya

[sustento]

You can do as you want harry. Unfortunately I won't be joining you. Congratulations on reaching such a magnificent age.

[Tep]

Why are gay so lazy

Now go to streets in Europe and America around the Russia Embassy chain yourself to the gates of the Russia Embassy Worldwide Jewelry did it get its people out of Soviet Union.

If not that go to the street s and riot like us black do

but no you post

No good Do somehing

I'm really interested in the Worldwide Jewelry. Can you get me a discount?

very funny so youcan spell You know what I mean

I am 87 years old went to 3rd grade

What have done to bring Justice to the world?

Did you ever shoot a pig?

Gay people in the west have been there and done that on the protest thing. There are 2 movies you might like to catch, even though at your age, you definitely were around at the time - Milk and The Normal Heart. Milk will show you the fight against discrimination in the 70's in San francisco and how things like Gay Pride marches contributed to the acceptance of natural human rights for LGBT people. The Normal Heart will show the devastation of the AIDs epidemic of the 80's and how discrimination and institutional ignorance and fear contributed to and compounded the problem.

This is why the Gay Pride and other public events are important in Russia. They were socially confrontational when they started in Sydney when I was growing up. They became part of the popular culture in the West. Parents took their kids to watch the motorbike lesbians just like they took the kids to see the Santa parades.

I take your comment as coming from the right place and not a place of hatred or ignorance so respond respectively but I think the LGBT community has done bloody hard work in reaching a point where the notion of normal human rights for them is mainstream in many societies.

You can probably find those movies online. They are pretty good. There are others if you are interested.

[harryfrompattaya]

Tep maybe as I say take to streets they will make a movie of you leading the movement

I am supporting 3 relatives right now that have take to streets in New York and they help in the riots in Fergerson

One has get active a lend money to the movement

[Choctastic]

You keep using words like 'minor' and 'youngster'. Are you talking about people who are above the age of consent or not?

You can't be serious.

You also keep using the words 'natural' and 'normal'. In what sense are you using them? To a gay person sex with a member of the same sex is natural.

Why don't you read my posts properly before asking your questions? I was specific about those minors who, in the absence of any 'promotion', would not adopt a 'non-traditional' lifestyle. i.e. those who are either seduced or groomed.

whole post seems to assume that being straight is somehow 'better' than being gay. The only truth in that is that you're much less likely to have the crap beaten out of you for being straight.

Nonsense. You won't be having children, you can't get married in most countries, you spend most of your life desperate for acceptance, you may need to take poppers to enable anal intercourse and you are apparently at higher risk of contracting AIDS... http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/sexandrelationships/analsex.htm

Apart from that I agree with you.

As for having the crap beaten out of me, my youth was a war zone because thugs can always find a reason to attack you. Homosexuals are at risk but don't let's pretend they have a monopoly on being assaulted.

[sustento]

You keep using words like 'minor' and 'youngster'. Are you talking about people who are above the age of consent or not?

You can't be serious.

I'm perfectly serious. Why don't you answer my question?

You also keep using the words 'natural' and 'normal'. In what sense are you using them? To a gay person sex with a member of the same sex is natural.

Why don't you read my posts properly before asking your questions? I was specific about those minors who, in the absence of any 'promotion', would not adopt a 'non-traditional' lifestyle. i.e. those who are either seduced or groomed.

I repeat:

If both parties in any sexual encounter are above the age of consent and the act is consensual then I don't see what the problem is. Would you feel the same way about a straight couple having sex?

If someone below the age of consent is suborned into sexual activity then the person who did it should be prosecuted regardless of their gender or orientation.

whole post seems to assume that being straight is somehow 'better' than being gay. The only truth in that is that you're much less likely to have the crap beaten out of you for being straight.

Nonsense. You won't be having children, you can't get married in most countries, you spend most of your life desperate for acceptance, you may need to take poppers to enable anal intercourse and you are apparently at higher risk of contracting AIDS... http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/sexandrelationships/analsex.htm

Oh please. Stop making this stuff up. This may be what you think being gay is like. It's not.

Apart from that I agree with you.

As for having the crap beaten out of me, my youth was a war zone because thugs can always find a reason to attack you. Homosexuals are at risk but don't let's pretend they have a monopoly on being assaulted.

I repeat " The only truth in that is that you're much less likely to have the crap beaten out of you for being straight."

[Choctastic]

If someone below the age of consent is suborned into sexual activity then the person who did it should be prosecuted regardless of their gender or orientation.

That was not the question. The Russian law is designed to protect under-18s from promotion of 'non-traditional' lifestyles in the belief that minors can be 'pushed' in that direction. Do you agree with this premise? Is the question now clear enough for you or should I write it in crayon?

Oh please. Stop making this stuff up. This may be what you think being gay is like. It's not.

I am not making stuff up and stop making assumptions. I know what being gay is like having observed my own offspring and his friends for 20 years. His being beaten, his desire for legitimacy (through a civil union), his heavy use of drugs (including Amyl Nitrite), his diagnosis of HIV, his 'camp' persona. You don't get more 'gay' than a camp hairdresser. A week after his Civil Union he discovered his 'husband' was having sex with multiple partners he met via the internet. Heterosexual couples also have their problems but his life has certainly been a roller-coaster.

We have confided in each other and I have researched the health aspects for him (the 'Swiss Study' is crap, btw) I have never condemned him and always supported him, despite my own reservations. Which, if you can keep your shirt on, are largely based around disappointment. No grandchildren being the principle one. It is also difficult to relate to a lifestyle I have no exposure to. Gay bars are not my scene. I am most certainly prejudiced. Against overly 'camp' gays. Seeing them as being largely responsible for attracting my son into the scene. Their 'promotion' of the lifestyle, in my opinion, was a factor in his transformation from dating women to dating men. So, yes I am supportive of the Russian government's stance and resentful of these gay 'stars', the media elevate.

I don't really care for your opinion on the matter. As far as I am concerned, being a homosexual is a harder road than not, as Russian gays are experiencing. Last time I checked same sex couples can't have children. Perhaps you know better? Instead of giving me the 'airy wave', do a search on all of the points I made and you will find ample support.

[Scott]

Please stay on topic. This is about the treatment of gays in Russia.

Many people who are gay are not attracted to a 'non-traditional lifestyle'. They have a sexual attraction to others of the same sex. They don't have an attraction to a lifestyle. I've not met any straight people who were attracted to a gay life-style, although they could exist.

People cannot be forced to accept or like anyone. In the case of Russia, however, it appears that the gov't does not provide basic protection for a group of its citizens. That is a concern.

[Choctastic]

Many people who are gay are not attracted to a 'non-traditional lifestyle'.

The language used by the Court was 'non-conventional sexual relationships'. I will use this in future.

People cannot be forced to accept or like anyone.

One of the main causes of resentment is that heterosexuals ARE being forced to accept something they disagree with.

[Choctastic]

In the case of Russia, however, it appears that the gov't does not provide basic protection for a group of its citizens.

At least the Police aren't clubbing them like they did the Occupy movement. There is some justice... http://www.livescience.com/43273-why-russia-is-anti-gay.html

'On Feb. 3, a court in eastern Russia sentenced three men to between nine and 12 years in prison each for the beating and stabbing death of a man they believed to be gay'

A possible explanation of our Russian poster's views...

'...acceptance has not come easily. One reason, Mikhailova said, is the popular tendency to conflate erroneously homosexuality with pedophilia and rape.

"For a long period of time Russian men and Russian women who were kept in prisons were subjugated and sexually assaulted in order to keep them complacent," she said. Men who were raped were known as "roosters," a term that is still one of the "most painful words" to call a man in Russia, Mikhailova said.

With rape and homosexuality equated, it's easy for leaders to insult gay people unapologetically.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Choctastic

[Vadmoscow79]

I do not have time or desire to argue with idiots. Explain again !!!!Сurrent constitution of Russia !!! on December 25, 1993

Article 17-55

Rights and freedoms of man and sitizen

In Russia there is no criminal article for homosexuality

Any sexual assault shall be punished severely punished by the law !!!!

Any sexual acts against children and adolescents-very severely punished by the law !!!!

In Russia there is no homophobia !!!! phobia - a term in psychology and psychiatry denoting fear.

at the expense of freedom and democracy. intelligence agencies published a report stating that the worldwide imyutsya secret prisons where another suspect was subjected to torture. - It is a fact !!!!

proluchaetsya that abducting people all over the world and torturing them - it is right

and to protect children from sexual perverts - a crime !!!!

This is Fascism !!!! Rus- phobia !!!!

if someone has the desire to continue the conversation I'm ready to write my address *email edited out*

Edited December 22, 2014 by Scott
email edited out

[Jingthing]

Constitutions are different than realities on the ground. It is true that homosexuality in general is not criminalized in Russia but it is also true that Russian gays are indeed being persecuted and scapegoated in Putin Russia. Definition of homophobia which anyone can look up is not limited to fear but includes hate as well. Perhaps confusing some people who take the root word phobia too literally in this case.

It is a common theme in Russian anti-gay rhetoric to try to link the international gay rights movement with fascism. That's quite bizarre but that's what we're dealing with here.

This thread is limited to gays in Russia. Nobody is saying many other nations don't have faults. Of course they do but not the topic here.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited December 22, 2014 by Jingthing

[jacky54]

Wasn't Ivan the terrible gay? you can't get more Russian than him!

[OMGImInPattaya]

Maybe the Russian people need to be reminded that their best know (and most loved?) composer, Tchaikovsky, was gay...but alas he was compelled to commit suicide because of his homosexuality.

[Vadmoscow79]

Constitutions are different than realities on the ground. It is true that homosexuality in general is not criminalized in Russia but it is also true that Russian gays are indeed being persecuted and scapegoated in Putin Russia. Definition of homophobia which anyone can look up is not limited to fear but includes hate as well. Perhaps confusing some people who take the root word phobia too literally in this case.

It is a common theme in Russian anti-gay rhetoric to try to link the international gay rights movement with fascism. That's quite bizarre but that's what we're dealing with here.

This thread is limited to gays in Russia. Nobody is saying many other nations don't have faults. Of course they do but not the topic here.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

you are not worried that the US intelligence services anywhere in the world can catch you on the street, put a bag on his head, put the camera. you beat and torture, starve. and all by the fact that maybe you're like a terrorist?

You seriously believe that the restriction of the rights of gays in Russia is more serious? none and really can not articulate what the limit. evidence built on rollers with YouTube and emotions

[jacky54]

Maybe the Russian people need to be reminded that their best know (and most loved?) composer, Tchaikovsky, was gay...but alas he was compelled to commit suicide because of his homosexuality.

There is no evidence at all that he either committed suicide, or that it was due to his sexual orientation. He died of Cholera after drinking from a river.

Edited December 22, 2014 by jacky54

[Vadmoscow79]

Wasn't Ivan the terrible gay? you can't get more Russian than him!

It's your imagination, or you have the facts? maybe a video or photos?

[Vadmoscow79]

Maybe the Russian people need to be reminded that their best know (and most loved?) composer, Tchaikovsky, was gay...but alas he was compelled to commit suicide because of his homosexuality.

it's your personal opinion is not based on facts

[Vadmoscow79]

Constitutions are different than realities on the ground. It is true that homosexuality in general is not criminalized in Russia but it is also true that Russian gays are indeed being persecuted and scapegoated in Putin Russia. Definition of homophobia which anyone can look up is not limited to fear but includes hate as well. Perhaps confusing some people who take the root word phobia too literally in this case.

It is a common theme in Russian anti-gay rhetoric to try to link the international gay rights movement with fascism. That's quite bizarre but that's what we're dealing with here.

This thread is limited to gays in Russia. Nobody is saying many other nations don't have faults. Of course they do but not the topic here.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

you have at least one example from real life. For example people have lost their jobs because of their sexual orientation.

videos from YouTube can not be proof as messages from social networks.

[Jingthing]

He's equating gay with pedo beastility etc.. He's spouting hard core anti gay hate speech.

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Edited December 22, 2014 by Jingthing