Krungsri ATM costs 900+ THB for one withdrawal

[KhnomKhnom]

Brutal lesson. Krungsri Bank, painted yellow, allows maximum ATM withdrawal of 30,000 THB, more that the other Thailand Bank ATMs.

But...... the fee charged my Bank of America bank card was $5. plus $27.57 or about 165 THB plus 907 THB for one withdrawal of B30,000.

I found the extra charge after four withdrawals and lost about $110. or B3618. total.

One withdrawal of same amount only cost $5. and that lured me into their trap. No warning on screen of the extra charge.

I visited Krungsri Bank branch in the new Central Salaya Mall and after finding the one English speaker employee, young person, she phoned the Krungsri call center three times before getting any answer. Call center said check with my American bank. Discussion by her with other bank employees indicated they did not want to deal with a foreigner and his odd questions.

Then, she called some higher boss by phone who told me to check with my American bank. When I told her that the fees were paid to Krungsri Bank each time, she advised me to check with my American bank. It is clearly stated on my BoA account statement that both the $5. and the $27.57 were paid to Krungsri Bank only.

I explained that I would have no future contact with Krungsri Bank and I departed the poorer.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

It was most certainly charged by BOA unless you opted for DCC. A US$5 ATM withdrawal fee and a 3% foreign exchange fee, Are you suggesting that BOA makes no charges at all?? Wake up!!
Look at the T&C attached to your BOA account for usage abroad.

A check beforehand would have saved you from embarrassing yourself inside the Thai bank.

What happened to the 150 to 180 baht charged separately by the Thai ATM? The rest would be your bank. 180 baht for the Thai bank and 165 + 907 baht for BOA. So in fact a total of 1252 baht.

If you opted for DCC and they didn't charge the 180 baht, then they have done you a favour.

Be prepared before using an International ATM.
Before you use your card to get cash from an international ATM it pays to do a little research. When you use a foreign ATM, you could be charged a variety of fees, including non-bank ATM usage fees, ATM operator access fees, and international transaction fees for conversion to U.S. dollars. One way to limit such fees is to use your Bank of America ATM or debit card at one of our international partner ATMs. This enables you to avoid the Non-Bank of America ATM $5 usage fee for each withdrawal, transfer or balance inquiry as well as the
ATM operator access fee.

Keep in mind that when you use your debit card to withdraw money from an international ATM, Bank of America will assess an international transaction fee of 3% of the converted U.S. dollar amount. Foreign ATM operators may offer to do your currency conversion for
you, but they may charge a higher fee for conversion. You can refuse the foreign ATM conversion and be assessed the 3% Bank of America international transaction fee instead.

It pays to read the small print. Get a better debit card....and learn to read and understand your own statements.

https://www.bankofamerica.com/deposits/manage/how-to-pay-when-traveling-abroad.go

Edited December 23, 2014 by Jiu-Jitsu

[Pib]

Unfortunately, another prime example of a person not knowing the fees associated with their card as levied by the card-issuing bank (BoA in this case), especially for foreign transaction and non-BoA ATM usage.

BoA is one of the most fee-hungry foreign transaction fee banks by charging both a healthy flat fee per transaction plus a healthy percentage of the amount withdrawn as shown in Jiu-Jitsu post above.

The only fee charged by Krungsri Bank was the Thai bank foreign card fee of Bt150/180. All other fees were charged by BoA and I have no doubt BoA may reflect the charges on your account with wording which might imply Krungsri charging the the $5 plus 3% fees but it's actually fees which BoA charged due to a foreign transaction occurring at a Krungsri Bank...it could just have easily been any other foreign bank.

And guess what....if the OP had opted for a DCC transaction resulting in a lower exchange rate of 2 to 4% given by the bank operating the ATM than the Visa/Mastercard/AmEx rate then BoA would have still charged their foreign transaction fees...not because they were involved in any of the currency conversion but simply because it was a foreign transaction.

OP, highly recommend you retire your BoA card for foreign usage and review the card's T&Cs...and maybe go back and apologize to the Krungsri Bank rep. After doing that then switch to a bank like Schwab Bank that does not charge any foreign transaction fees and also reimburses local ATM fees.

[Sviss Geez]

"I explained that I would have no future contact with Krungsri Bank..."

Doubtless Krungsri were devastated beyond words.

[KhnomKhnom]

I am glad that reading the nasty and superior-than-thou comments and attitudes on other thaivisa messages did prepare me for the same regarding my ATM question.

My remaining questions are.....

-Why does my BoA account statement clearly state that both the $5 fee and the other larger fee were both paid to Krungsri Bank. All the other entries on my statement clearly state to whom I had paid out to and who was sending money into the account. If this statement means to say that the larger fee was collected by BoA, then why does the statement report payment to Krungsri? Is this fraudulent on part of BoA or what?

-Why is there not a true fee alert on screen when using the Krungsri ATMs?

-Why, using the same bank card, do I not encounter a high fee when using ATMs of Bangkok Bank and Siam Com. Bank ???

-And, why is it necessary for thaivisa typists to adopt such an unpleasant attitude in their responses? I thought living in Thailand was supposed to reduce sadistic tendencies in people, yes or no?

Regardless of the error here, I departed the Krungsri branch office with thanks to all there and enjoyed smiles around. I wish that company no ill will and am insulted for anyone to type otherwise, but then thaivisa typists are well known for their sadistic attitudes.

[bangmai]

common knowledge BAC is the worst in the US for fees...JPM isn't much better, but the have many no foreign transaction fee cc. It is lesser known that Krungsri pays 360% more in interest on regular savings than bkkbank, as long as you have 100K in the account.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I don't bank with BOA, so I don't have a sample statement. You are welcome to post yours, then we can analyse and perhaps answer your question. Krungsi does not levy a US$5 fee. It is a Thailand bank, so any fee would be in Baht. Learn to read and understand your bank statements or you'll end up confusing yourself and others.

Other than that, why on earth would Krungsi alert you to your banks charges? You should be aware of them.

Also read up on Dynamic Currency Conversion

If you don't use it, BoA takes the 3%(hidden within the exchange rate). If you accept it, the local bank takes it.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Jiu-Jitsu

[Pib]

My remaining questions are.....

-Why does my BoA account statement clearly state that both the $5 fee and the other larger fee were both paid to Krungsri Bank. All the other entries on my statement clearly state to whom I had paid out to and who was sending money into the account. If this statement means to say that the larger fee was collected by BoA, then why does the statement report payment to Krungsri? Is this fraudulent on part of BoA or what?

-Why is there not a true fee alert on screen when using the Krungsri ATMs?

-Why, using the same bank card, do I not encounter a high fee when using ATMs of Bangkok Bank and Siam Com. Bank ???

Can you post a snapshot of your BoA statement blacking out anything you think is sensitive. I still have a BoA account and their debit card...the debit card lives in the darkness of my home safe due to the foreign transaction fees. When I first got here to Thailand about a half dozen years ago I used my BoA debit card once just to confirm it would work in Thailand knowing I would be hit with a foreign transaction fee. I can't really remember, but I think the foreign transaction fee was combined with the Thai bank withdrawal making it look like Visa or the Thai bank applied the foreign transaction fee. I remember how the BoA wording of the charge did its best to imply the charge came from Visa and/or the Thai bank. Kinda similar to how U.S. telecommunications bills use to give certain fee names that implied they were being directly charged by the federal govt when in fact it was fees charged by the telecommunications companies to cover some of their expenses they felt were driven by compliance with federal regulations/laws. It's always a good thing if you can fool your customer into thinking someone else is charging the fee.

The ATM you are using don't know what fees your card-issuing bank may charge....banks don't provide that info back and forth during at ATM transaction. Your card-issuing bank (BoA) may display all the fees separately or lump some into the withdrawal amount which helps hide who is really charging the fees. Good banks show all the fees separately with clear descriptions of what they are; less than good banks use vague words or words that may try to imply the other guy charged the fee. However, the ATM owner you are using (i.e., the Krungsri ATM in this case) will only tell you the fee they will be charging because they are in control of that and set that fee....usually you are notified of that local ATM fee at the next to last step of the transaction giving you a chance to cancel if desired. All other fees such as the Visa/Mastercard currency conversion fee,and any foreign transaction fees your card-issuing bank applies can be displayed in various ways "depending on how your card-issuing bank" decides to display them.

The Thai bank fee for foreign cards has pretty much standardized now at Bt180 but there may still be a few that only charge Bt150. Up until a month or so ago, quite a few Thai banks would only charge Bt150 for a Visa card but the same bank would charge Bt180 for a Mastercard. AEON ATMs still only charge Bt150 but it won't surprise me that they will creep up to Bt180 also. Bankster love higher fees.

And do not accept a DCC transaction if offered by the ATM as that is the ATM owner's rate they will give you and not the Visa/Matercard exchange rate for a normal transaciton. The ATMs rate will be around 2 to 4% lower. And they probably won't call it a DCC transaction but give it warm and fuzzy name like Home Rate, Bank Rate, etc. Always so no to DCC and continue on with a regular transaction. And retire that BoA debit card for use outside the U.S. due to the high foreign transaction fees.

To give an idea of how a good bank (St Farm Bank) displays foreign ATM withdrawals, below is a snapshot of a Bt30K withdrawal from a "Krungsri Bank" ATM in a Tesco Lotus mall back in July although the statement don't say Krungsri Bank...just reflects the ATM terminal/location info. St Farm does not charge any foreign transaction fees and reimburses any ATM fees....note the only fee was the Krungsri Bt180 fee which displayed on the ATM screen and receipt and equated to $5.56 based on the exchange rate back in July. And below that is an early Dec withdrawal from a Thai Military Bank (TMB) ATM in a Lotus mall and how it appears on my Schwab Bank account...note Schwab initially lumps the TMB Bt180 fee (use to be Bt150 until about a month ago) into the amount withdrawn...can make a person think they didn't pickup on the TMB ATM fee or no fee was charged by TMB, however, Schwab does indeed pick-up on the fee although not initially displaying it and then at the end of the month you see an ATM Reimbursement transaction on your account. During the TMB ATM withdrawal their screen does display their fee and it prints out on the receipt. Just a couple examples of how banks can choose what and how they display any ATM transaction and fee info...they may break it out separately...they may not.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Forget to add that Krungsi used to default to DCC on Mastercard ATM transactions. Not sure if they are still doing that.

[jacko45k]

Some UK banks do similar, a fixed foreign use charge and a percentage currency conversion charge.

It can add up.

As another guy says, lock the 'home base' ATM cards in the safe.

I have no explanation as to why similar charges would not be experienced using Bangkok Bank and SCB.

I would only expect 180 baht charge for my foreign ATM card to be levied at the Thailand end, and even that used to produce a warning at the ATM.

What happens back in farangland would be unknown to them

[RichinThailand]

The fees were BofA, as usual. Try USBank...some of their cards have NO international fees, you just pay the 150 baht to the Thai bank of your choice.

[Tony125]

I am glad that reading the nasty and superior-than-thou comments and attitudes on other thaivisa messages did prepare me for the same regarding my ATM question.

My remaining questions are.....

-Why does my BoA account statement clearly state that both the $5 fee and the other larger fee were both paid to Krungsri Bank. All the other entries on my statement clearly state to whom I had paid out to and who was sending money into the account. If this statement means to say that the larger fee was collected by BoA, then why does the statement report payment to Krungsri? Is this fraudulent on part of BoA or what?

-Why is there not a true fee alert on screen when using the Krungsri ATMs?

-Why, using the same bank card, do I not encounter a high fee when using ATMs of Bangkok Bank and Siam Com. Bank ???

-And, why is it necessary for thaivisa typists to adopt such an unpleasant attitude in their responses? I thought living in Thailand was supposed to reduce sadistic tendencies in people, yes or no?

Regardless of the error here, I departed the Krungsri branch office with thanks to all there and enjoyed smiles around. I wish that company no ill will and am insulted for anyone to type otherwise, but then thaivisa typists are well known for their sadistic attitudes.

Obviously we are superior-than -thou as we know the reasons and told you .I am a US citizen with a Bank of America account so I know what I'm talking about If you doubt that call Bank of America and "Ask" them about the " 3 % Forein tranaction fee" This is an excerpt from Bank of America site. "Keep in mind that when you use your debit card to withdraw money from an international ATM, Bank of America will assess an international transaction fee of 3% of the converted U.S. dollar amount " Read that closley "Bank of America will assesss an international transaction fee of 3% NOT the Thai bank." They used to charge 1% but raised it to 3%

There are some credit unions in USA that do not charge a ForeinTransaction Fee . Some bank issued cards will reimburse the fee and I think Capital One cards may not charge a FTF. https://www.bankofam...eling-abroad.go

Edited December 25, 2014 by Tony125

[SOTIRIOS]

...tempting God.....in a Godless land..... or what....

...you could have made 1 withdrawal....

...you made 3......so of course you were charged 3 times.......duhhh........

[anon467367354]

I use Ally Bank and they reimburse me the Thai bank fees every month. They do not charge for their debit cards being used overseas.

In other words it costs me nothing to withdraw from a Thai ATM.

[Pib]

As I mentioned in an earlier post BoA will also hit you with their foreign transaction fee even if no currency conversion is required like when a person's opted for a ripoff DCC transaction which is usually around 2 to 4% lower than the Visa/Mastercard rate. So, let's say a person choose a DCC transaction during an ATM withdrawal and that local bank ATM DCC rate was 3% lower than the Visa/Mastercard rate...effectively the person has just incurred a 3% fee and then the Bt180 fee is many time still charged...I've seen posts where the Thai bank may not charge the Bt180 fee if you select DCC...of course the bank is raping you on the their DCC rate. But lets say they do charge the Bt180 fee. Now you have fees totaling Bt180 plus 3% of the withdrawal amount.

Ok, the charge hits BoA who then add on their $5 flat fee plus their 3% foreign transaciton fee simply because it was a foreign transaciton regardless of already being converted to dollars. See below BoA snapshot talking about this.



http://promo.bankofamerica.com/business-card-fees/international-transaction-fees/

So, when the dust settles on a DCC transaction and using a BoA card, there could be Bt180 + 3% of amount withdrawn + $5 + 3% of amount withdrawn. If not a DCC transaction just remove that first 3%. Banksters are smiling, especially BoA banksters. And I just love the last sentence in above BoA image which says:
"International transaction fees are typically a small percentage of your transaction amount."

So, per BoA since their foreign transaction fees are small don't worry about them...continue to make us rich...it's such a small fee...the mind of a bankster.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Pib

[ozyjon]

Where i live in Europe people here have just come to grips with cards, eg: the lady in front of me paying for a few goods in a hardware shop,

the attendant: that will be 12 euros

lady: opens her wallet, gets out some cash

the attendant: do you have a loyalty card

lady: what ? card ? puts her money back in her purse, hands over a debit card

the attendant: puts the card into the machine, asks the lady, do you sign or use a pin number?

lady: i don't know

the attendant: is there someone you can call to find out?

lady: i could call my daughter but i think she is out, why don't i just give you cash (as per line 2 )

the attendant: would you like to include your tax file number on your receipt?

lady: what / why

the attendant: so you can claim the tax back (note: unless you are a builder you cannot claim the tax back, pointless exercise)

lady: Ok

the attendant: whats your tax file number

lady: i don't remember

the attendant: is there someone you can call to find out?

- - and it starts again - -

It would be funny -sad- if it wasn't true, so i look behind me only to count at least 15 people waiting to be served.

AND THE MORAL IS

Some people just should not be allowed anywhere near modern technology, it's very dangerous for the rest of us,,

Remember folks computers are evil, you have been warned. (click)

[CrummyJuggler]

The OP says "bank card" which is vague and not sure if he made an ATM withdraw from his checking account or took a cash advance on a credit card and the fees are wildly different. If you can plan ahead a few days, next time try Western Union. You can link your bank account to WU and make withdraw of up to $3,000 for one single fee of $15. No double-dip bank fees or atm fees. It may take 3 business days to complete but fees are so much lower. I find this to be the best option.

[monk213]

May have already been said but just get a Thai bank account.. It is one of the first things I did when I moved here in 2010 and I have had no issues whatsoever with my account (Kasikorn by the way).

[Pib]

The OP says "bank card" which is vague and not sure if he made an ATM withdraw from his checking account or took a cash advance on a credit card and the fees are wildly different. If you can plan ahead a few days, next time try Western Union. You can link your bank account to WU and make withdraw of up to $3,000 for one single fee of $15. No double-dip bank fees or atm fees. It may take 3 business days to complete but fees are so much lower. I find this to be the best option.

Oh I expect he's talking his debit card when saying bank card. Most BoA credit card are worst than their debit card when it comes to get cash. Typically for a Cash Advance Fee is $10 or 3%, whichever is larger. And then if its a foreign transaction they add on a foreign transaction fee of 3%.

[Cheap Backpacker]

If from america get an online capital one savings and credit card. No foreign fees and easy to open. Best bank for foreign transactions and I check statements closely.

I researched all banks.

[timendres]

It was most certainly charged by BOA unless you opted for DCC. A US$5 ATM withdrawal fee and a 3% foreign exchange fee, Are you suggesting that BOA makes no charges at all?? Wake up!!

Look at the T&C attached to your BOA account for usage abroad.

A check beforehand would have saved you from embarrassing yourself inside the Thai bank.

What happened to the 150 to 180 baht charged separately by the Thai ATM? The rest would be your bank. 180 baht for the Thai bank and 165 + 907 baht for BOA. So in fact a total of 1252 baht.

If you opted for DCC and they didn't charge the 180 baht, then they have done you a favour.

Be prepared before using an International ATM.

Before you use your card to get cash from an international ATM it pays to do a little research. When you use a foreign ATM, you could be charged a variety of fees, including non-bank ATM usage fees, ATM operator access fees, and international transaction fees for conversion to U.S. dollars. One way to limit such fees is to use your Bank of America ATM or debit card at one of our international partner ATMs. This enables you to avoid the Non-Bank of America ATM $5 usage fee for each withdrawal, transfer or balance inquiry as well as the

ATM operator access fee.

Keep in mind that when you use your debit card to withdraw money from an international ATM, Bank of America will assess an international transaction fee of 3% of the converted U.S. dollar amount. Foreign ATM operators may offer to do your currency conversion for

you, but they may charge a higher fee for conversion. You can refuse the foreign ATM conversion and be assessed the 3% Bank of America international transaction fee instead.

It pays to read the small print. Get a better debit card....and learn to read and understand your own statements.

https://www.bankofamerica.com/deposits/manage/how-to-pay-when-traveling-abroad.go

BOA are the biggest thieves I have every dealt with. After I discovered the fees they assess for international transactions, I called them and not-so-politely canceled by account. I now use only Capital One. Capital One has no international fees, and their exchange rates are the best I have ever seen. Banks are criminals and research is mandatory. Dump BOA and look into Capital One - they are your friends here in Thailand.

[Ulic]

The OP says "bank card" which is vague and not sure if he made an ATM withdraw from his checking account or took a cash advance on a credit card and the fees are wildly different. If you can plan ahead a few days, next time try Western Union. You can link your bank account to WU and make withdraw of up to $3,000 for one single fee of $15. No double-dip bank fees or atm fees. It may take 3 business days to complete but fees are so much lower. I find this to be the best option.

How does WU's exchange rate compare to the Visa rate? Personally I don't trust any of the banks/ money transfer companies.

They want there pound of flesh and will work hard to disguise if. IE low transaction fees but gouging currency rates.

[timendres]

-Why does my BoA account statement clearly state that both the $5 fee and the other larger fee were both paid to Krungsri Bank. All the other entries on my statement clearly state to whom I had paid out to and who was sending money into the account. If this statement means to say that the larger fee was collected by BoA, then why does the statement report payment to Krungsri? Is this fraudulent on part of BoA or what?

I cannot answer this question precisely, because each company's bank statement is slightly different. If I remember correctly, BOA's online statements show a small icon that indicates when a fee is international. So take a look to see if they show that little icon. If so, then it is BOA's international transaction fee - regardless of who they say the fee went to. They will show you Krungsri, meaning that was the institution on the other end of the transaction, but the fee goes to BOA - very misleading. But that larger fee looks rate based, not fixed rate, and all Thai ATM fees that I have seen are a fixed rate (150 or 180 baht at the moment).

-Why is there not a true fee alert on screen when using the Krungsri ATMs?

Because the ATM network is not able to tell the Krungsri ATM what those charges will be. There is no protocol for querying the funding source for these details. Do other ATM's show you this information? I have never seen it.

-Why, using the same bank card, do I not encounter a high fee when using ATMs of Bangkok Bank and Siam Com. Bank ???

The two transactions may be treated differently, due to the higher amount. The other banks could be making an "ATM Withdrawal", while Krungsri (at the higher level of 30,000) could be recording the transaction as a "Cash Advance". Those will involve different fee structures from BOA's point of view.

[JimGant]

You can link your bank account to WU and make withdraw of up to $3,000 for one single fee of $15. No double-dip bank fees or atm fees. It may take 3 business days to complete but fees are so much lower. I find this to be the best option.

Maybe not. Besides a fee, they make money on FX. The following from this site: https://www.westernunion.com/us/en/send-money/start.html

The following is their FX for 25 Dec:

Estimated exchange rate : 1 US Dollar (USD) = 31.5086 Thai Baht (THB)3

Oh, footnote 3 says: "Western Union also makes money from currency exchange." No shiite, Sherlock -- considering the same day's TT rate at Bangkok Bank is 32.75 Further elaboration at another WU site:

The exchange rate applied may be less favourable than some publicly reported commercial exchange rates used in transactions between banks and other financial institutions. Any difference between the currency exchange rate offered to customers and the currency exchange rate received by Western Union will be kept by Western Union (and, in some instances, its Agents) in addition to the transfer fees. (will be kept, as in "pocketed?")

As a practical matter, $3000 sent via ACH thru NY to one's Bangkok Bank account would net 97,678 baht (2990*32.75-245). Compare this to a Western Union transfer, at the above advertised rate of 31.5086, and you only get 94,053 (assuming the $15 fee is subtracted up-front). A 3625 baht difference. And, an ACH from a bank like USAA takes only 1.5 business days -- not 3. Even a rip-off Bank of America ATM transaction would be superior to Western Union.....

[Strangebrew]

I might suggest you switch banks in the states to citibank I use citibank on Asok and only fee I pay is exchange fee of less than 3.00 USD. And can withdraw up to 1000.00 USD or if I might need more a simple toll free call to states and up the limit one time to amount needed. Just saying.

[Strangebrew]

Oh almost forgot this is the same at any Citibank worldwide. Saving those useless fees adds up quick.

[Thaiready]

BOA sux. ......I dumped them years ago......Wells Fargo is my choice.

[lvr181]

Who is the Bank of America?

Fine sounding name for a organisation capable of such alleged "rip offs"

[Pib]

BOA sux. ......I dumped them years ago......Wells Fargo is my choice.

Wells Fargo debit card fee for foreign transactions is a $5 flat fee...or if making a purchase 3%. And if by chance you want to avoid the Thai bank Bt180 fee by doing a counter withdrawal, well, you will indeed avoid that Thai bank fee, however, but, Wells Fargo will be charging you a 3%. fee. See below cut and paste from the Wells Fargo website.

Maybe you did somewhat better in dumping BoA for Wells Fargo, but I think I would practice my dumping some more and switch to a bank that does not charge any foreign transaction fees, flat fee or percentage fee, like Schwab or others.

https://www.wellsfargo.com/help/faqs/debit-card/

• Wells Fargo will assess a $5 fee for ATM cash withdrawals made outside the United States and an International Purchase Transaction fee which is 3% of the transaction amount for each purchase made with your debit card in a foreign currency that has been converted into a U.S. dollar amount by a network.

  If you have any difficulty using a foreign ATM, use your debit card to get an over-the-counter cash disbursement at a local financial institution. (Wells Fargo charges a fee which is 3% of the transaction amount for international over-the-counter cash disbursements.) View our quick tips for using your card outside the United States.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Pib

[ronthai]

The OP probably doesn't even have an account with the Krungsri bank. Just uses their ATM machine with his BOA debit/credit/ATM card.

I praise the Krungsri bank for even getting an English speaking staff and wasting time and phonecalls charges on this idiot OP.

He probably thought he would get the money back from Krungsri.

When back in the USA try to get it back from BOA, they will laugh you away also when you tell them no more business with you.