Koh Tao murder trial rescheduled

[berybert]

Someone seems to be losing the plot. Must be lonely being the last of the Beatles still making comments. Never mind Ringo might ride to the rescue soon.

JTJ you are claiming that even the people who think the Burmese are innocent really believe them to be guilty ?

Maybe you should try and get on the defense team, maybe you can also re educate them and make them JTJ believers too.

No wonder you love the general so much. You are all for re educating the disbelievers.

They must be guilty, and the only reason people don't want to believe this is because they hate Thailand.

Man that is some weird stuff you are smoking.

Edited January 25, 2015 by berybert

[thailandchilli]

Things like signing a petition is a positive step towards seeking truth and shouldn't require these kind of "moronic" conspiracy theories or unfounded speculation

Great to see JTJ supported the petition. Here's what it was calling for:

From a completely destroyed crime scene, racial slurs and finger pointing against foreigners, victim blaming from the General turned Prime Minister, police posting pictures of the dead victims bodies on their FB accounts (with no regard for the victims friends and families), countless releases of unnecessary and highly conflicting pieces of information/evidence to the media, reports of investigators beating and offering bribes to false witnesses (and then still being allowed to work on the case), reports of torturing of suspects, suspicious and insensitive re-enactments of the crime, and the well known fact that citizens of Myanmar are the usual choice of scapegoats in Thailand.

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller?

[JohnThailandJohn]

Things like signing a petition is a positive step towards seeking truth and shouldn't require these kind of "moronic" conspiracy theories or unfounded speculation

Great to see JTJ supported the petition. Here's what it was calling for:

From a completely destroyed crime scene, racial slurs and finger pointing against foreigners, victim blaming from the General turned Prime Minister, police posting pictures of the dead victims bodies on their FB accounts (with no regard for the victims friends and families), countless releases of unnecessary and highly conflicting pieces of information/evidence to the media, reports of investigators beating and offering bribes to false witnesses (and then still being allowed to work on the case), reports of torturing of suspects, suspicious and insensitive re-enactments of the crime, and the well known fact that citizens of Myanmar are the usual choice of scapegoats in Thailand.

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller?

Hopefully those who signed the petition actually were better informed and knew what it was calling for as opposed to what you VERY incorrectly state it was calling for, which appears to be nothing and rather just a rant based on your above post.

In reality this is exactly and only thing that the petition called for was:

"This being said, we demand a full independent investigation to be conducted by the government of the United Kingdom into these deaths."

The goal as explained in the petition ...

"This is in the hope that the families of these victims may know justice has been served, and that the deaths of two more possible innocents might be avoided."

Interesting to note that if the petition did cause the UK Authorities to send investigators to Thailand then it has help the parents, as much as it can given this point in the case, feel justice will be served based on both families publicly stating their confidence in the evidence against the defendants in the same statement they advised social media theorist to stop their speculating as they not only knew all the evidence but what they were (are) doing is hurtful. Interesting because it is safe to assume many of these social media detective folks signed the petition but have not stopped yet in your post there is a complaint about lack of respect to the families.

On a side note, your post makes clear whomever wrote and the change.org petition was unprofessional, emotional and childish right from the hyperbole starting in the first line. But being so filled with emotion and light on logic and professional probably helped get those emotionally reactionary folks to sign quickly and if it helped facilitated getting UK Investigators over here then job well done! Just can't help think about what might have been accomplished and what answers might be public now had the petition been more professional and thoughtful in its request instead of the majority of it being an emotional rant against Thai authorities.

Edited January 25, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[catsanddogs]

And Islandlife claimed to have had contact with someone who knew Mon or Nomsod I remember although he/she said they didn't have facebook.

And Islandlife said he knew Mon and claimed Mon was too nice a guy to be involved with this crime. It reminded me of what mothers often say, when their grown boys are accused of heinous crimes; "Oh no, not my Johnny. He's such a nice boy. If you knew him, you'd know he would never do something bad like that."

Maybe Islandlife will be able to clarify soon as I see they are posting in other threads so no doubt are keeping a beady eye on this one.

[catsanddogs]

The thing I find one of the Most disturbing thing is NOT ONE of Hannahs friends come forward. Nothing zilch not any efforts. Shameful. Like she is forgotten and that's her mates.

That's 2 x Hannahs and Emma. Not a word. Moved on with their lives.

10612643_10152666574480944_2079143340602402089_n.jpg

15418_761649277214654_7945086390261549701_n.jpg

10615542_10154681896815640_5885366283607899743_n.jpg

I can understand the families grief. I cant understand why the Police have not told them how it is.... Actually retract that. We know why, save face. The RTP have made them look like Messenger Boys. They should have saved the UK tax payer the expenses and just posted them the info. 105,000 peoples hopes and dreams for verification when they signed the petition was worthless. But then you also see something there as well. Look at the makeup of the people who presented it to #10.

Tells a story hey

10662204_10204238773562300_9101007694428331342_o.jpg

10661851_751611368243742_2206625464764632376_o.jpg

Not Many of Hannah or David's friends there is there.

And then we hear how we mustn't upset the UK Families.

Well there's another 2 Families as well.

665d49ab8cc33a29630f6a706700499a.jpg

thailand-murder-reuters-102214_jpg.jpg

Still it seems they are not so important.

Some people manage to break smiles though.

The manager of the bar they had been drinking in seems to be in more of a joyous state.

14115481671411548327l.jpg

Yes, so strange that the friends have kept up their silence. Could they be living in fear of their own lives maybe? The only thing I am aware of that was said by one of them, and the friend who said it is not named -

Hannah’s devastated friends revealed they have been told that David was “smitten” with her.

That they have chosen to 'reveal' nothing else can only increase the continued speculation.

[boomerangutang]

So maybe you're really saying that you actually don't have the slightest idea whether any Thai police officer accepted any bribe money or not.

Wrong. I think there was payment from the Headman to key police players. Can I prove it, no. Similarly, if I see two lovers walking arm in arm to a secluded park bench at 11:30 pm, can I prove that they're going to kiss? No. Can I prove that a gang of motorcyle gang is going to make a lot of noise when they turn their motorbikes on? Not before the fact. As we grow up to adults, we learn things from observing patterns, from human nature, from precedence. Given the parameters of this case, where the Headman's brother and son were the two prime suspects in the first ten days after the crime, and where one of the two was evading police (and wouldn't submit to a DNA test even when he was caught), there's some things one can assume. It became particularly clear that money must have changed hands (along with promises of future pay-outs and/or valuables exchanged), when the replacement head cop took over, and the entire investigation took an immediate 180 degree turn.

Why not first try responding to the post were I called people seeking the truth moronic. Just like the moronic social media detectives making "moronic" claims and putting out "moronic" theories, you seem to be confused about the facts and are seeing things that are not there.

Promoting baseless far fetched theories without any facts to back them up and actual facts to counter such conspiracy theories with other social media detectives is not only "moronic" but also serves negatively and certainly is not a way to seek the truth and has resulted in these sites becoming the brunt of many jokes as well as those who quote them and sadly some who have legitimate concerns but repeat nonsense speculation as fact because of the BS these sites and people spread to the point things start being stated as fact that are untrue.ts from the moment the train worker's arrest was reported.

Well, at least you're using a different word (moronic) that jdinasia (everyone is a conspiracy theorist who doesn't agree with me') and AleG ('show me facts' even after facts have been shown).

Here are some 'baseless far-fetched theories without any facts to back them up' for JTJ to peruse:

>>> Nomsod and Mon were prime suspects in first part of investigation

>>> David's blood was not found on the hoe, yet the hoe was used in the reenactment

>>> No bloody clothes were found outside the immediate crime scene

>>> CCTV from the beach bars was not demanded by investigators

>>> investigators didn't look at the scene in the bars that night

>>> investigators didn't look at anyone's phone records/history/texts for Monday.

>>> investigators didn't do full body searches of anyone, except maybe the scapegoats.

>>> The PM said this was a 'perfect investigation'

>>> The PM said Brit experts would only be allowed as observers. No investigating whatsoever.

>>> Ms Porntip said the DNA trail could not be trusted. (ironically, this is an advantage for Mon and Nomsod, if it's ever shown that their DNA matches that found on/in Hannah)

>>> Cops said they found Hannah's phone behind the scapegoats' shack.

there are a plethora of more far-fetched theories which TRT and other RTP echoers don't want to agree, with, but I'm tiring of typing......

[JLCrab]

From post # 1580 above; Wrong. I think there was payment from the Headman to key police players. Can I prove it, no.

So maybe next time you describe a scene that in your vivid imagination might have taken place such as you described with the 2 Thai officers drinking coffee and counting their bribe money, you can use such qualifying words as 'maybe', 'perhaps', 'it might be', or 'it is within the realm of possibility' or a few other qualifying words of your own choice to indicate the scene that you describe never actually has taken place.

[JohnThailandJohn]

"Concerned folks herein are scrutinizing possible evidence, while Thai cops are counting their bribe money, guzzling caffeine drinks and servicing their mia noi." *

So when you saw the 2 Thai cops counting their money, why did you just not tell them that you are seeking the truth and ask them from where did they get their money?

* http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/787155-koh-tao-murder-trial-rescheduled/page-14#entry8877348

Sometimes, Crab, you're so 'off-the-wall'. To answer your question (as if it warrants an answer); ....for the same reason I didn't grab the knife from the ISIS executioner in the desert, and stab him in the heart.

So maybe you're really saying that you actually don't have the slightest idea whether any Thai police officer accepted any bribe money or not.

We also don't know if a taxi driver was beaten up for not accepting 700,000 baht to tell a lie for them.

The only thing we do know is Mon offered 700,000 baht to find anyone in his family guilty.

We as the general public can only comment on the things we read in the papers or see on the T.V. Therefore we make our opinions from these articals.

Some of us use quotes from films or lines from songs to help the cause. Some tell down right lies and make out there could have been on the scene and saw with there own eyes what happened. But if we are led to believe what the RTP tell us there are only 2 people in the whole world who were there and know what happened.

As I said I look at the T.V. I read the papers, I unlike many of the flock of followers am more than capable of thinking for myself.

Why do I think these two might not be guilty. Well there are hours of CCTV footage that showed people coming to and from the beach on the night of the murders.

There has been plenty of footage of the Burmese from before the crime on their bike, buying fags etc. Yet after the crime none.

Even Colombo would be mentioning his wife about that.

--- Just to clarify some numbers and facts ...

1 Million Baht is the amount he offered to donate to the Provincial Police Region 8 if police could come up with any substantial evidence that implicated him or his family in the crime.

700K Baht was the amount the general reward reached (surpassed) in the case around Sep. 21st

700k Baht is the same amount the Taxi driver claims police offered him to lie when they beat him up on Sep. 29th

--- Just to speculate...

Police may have been rough on the driver if they doubted his statements and may have played an interrogation technique of seeing how eager he would be to take the pressure off himself by police suggesting he accuse somebody else. Bottom line if you got an investigators this corrupt they are willing to pay a witness to lie they would have had a witness sooner and certainly wouldn't have to offer somebody 700k to lie when MANY people would do it for A LOT less and even allow the investigator to profit too by splitting the reward. And if you are one to believe the police planned to frame a Myanmar worker from the start, doesn't make sense they would apply this kind of pressure on a Thai to lie about another Thai as this day they were focusing on the Thai football team he was on that played the day of the murder. If they didn't want him to implicate another player then why did they choose him and only him to pay off with the total reward amount.

Bottom line is the Taxi driver story sounds like BS on a number of levels but I do think it plausible the driver may not be making it all up but rather shaken up / confused or exaggerating a bit rather than any real attempt to try to pay him such a huge amount to lie and then have investigators think they could beat him into carrying on a lie for a double murder trial only to release the guy, all within the same afternoon. The the Taxi driver who cannot be bought or tortured into a lie only to have the driver go to another island headsman who went to the press with the story included making the statement the driver wanted to declare his innocence but didn't want to pursue anything .... never saw any mention of actual injuries from the beating or even what the beating included.

But it could have happened and those who believe his story, many of whom basically call Thai Taxi drivers the scum of the earth who should not be trusted and are part of a mafia, may be right.

[loonodingle]

The thing I find one of the Most disturbing thing is NOT ONE of Hannahs friends come forward. Nothing zilch not any efforts. Shameful. Like she is forgotten and that's her mates.

That's 2 x Hannahs and Emma. Not a word. Moved on with their lives.

10612643_10152666574480944_2079143340602402089_n.jpg

15418_761649277214654_7945086390261549701_n.jpg

10615542_10154681896815640_5885366283607899743_n.jpg

I can understand the families grief. I cant understand why the Police have not told them how it is.... Actually retract that. We know why, save face. The RTP have made them look like Messenger Boys. They should have saved the UK tax payer the expenses and just posted them the info. 105,000 peoples hopes and dreams for verification when they signed the petition was worthless. But then you also see something there as well. Look at the makeup of the people who presented it to #10.

Tells a story hey

10662204_10204238773562300_9101007694428331342_o.jpg

10661851_751611368243742_2206625464764632376_o.jpg

Not Many of Hannah or David's friends there is there.

And then we hear how we mustn't upset the UK Families.

Well there's another 2 Families as well.

665d49ab8cc33a29630f6a706700499a.jpg

thailand-murder-reuters-102214_jpg.jpg

Still it seems they are not so important.

Some people manage to break smiles though.

The manager of the bar they had been drinking in seems to be in more of a joyous state.

14115481671411548327l.jpg

Yes, murders happen every day and people accept and move on especially when the police make arrests against those who are likely guilty and there is overwhelming evidence against. Yes even murdering rapists cause hardship for their own families in addition to destroying the lives of their victims and loved ones.

And yes there will be those that get obsessed in an unhealthy way about some news stories and think they know more about the facts than experts or in this case UK investigators and families who believe the right people have been arrested and will stand trial and who have asked for the moronic social media nonsense to stop and yet these same obsessed people go on to make comments about the victims loved ones or friends as if somehow these people obsessing have some greater concern for the victims they don't know as opposed to what is driving their unhealthy obsession and hurtful and disrespectful comments to the family and loved ones of the victims.

This was the beginning of JTJ's rant

I mentioned the fact that on the face of it none of the friends of the 2 deceased had been present at the hand over at No 10

Also in a protest picture.

The have failed to come forward to offer any evidence no matter how small. So I questioned in how good a friend they have proved to be. In a sense if you read it.

JTJ then went onto describe people as Morons. A whole paragraph of off topic abuse that you can read on post http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/787155-koh-tao-murder-trial-rescheduled/?p=8982187

I also mentioned further that the Lead Lawyer is working Pro Bono. I didn't mention anyone else but him. the same guy you see walking into court.

The Burmese Gov has also funded lawyers and then there's even more from Thailand. Some who are working Pro Bono. Other than the fact that the Burmese Gov do not normally fund Lawyers so they obviously think there is a good possibility a miscarriage of justice could be unfolding the rest is all irrelevant and off topic.

The UK Gov never funds lawyers regardless. Even if you are on death row. Forget it M8 u r on your own.

There's obviously a very strong sense that they have the wrong 2 guys right across Thai society. Forget the UK except for a few small pockets of protest on humanitarian grounds from people like myself, who certain people take pleasure in ridiculing. This is a phenomenon that is rare un almost unheard off. As far back as I can remember I cannot think of anything that's grabbed peoples attention in such a galvanising way. One of the The Top Forensic pathologists in Thailand even going on TV to denounce the procedure followed by the RTP. Speaks volumes

Edited January 25, 2015 by loonodingle

[draftvader]

Comment on moderation removed.

10) Do not discuss moderation publicly in the open forum; this includes individual actions, and specific or general policies and issues. You may send a PM to a moderator to discuss individual actions or email support (at) thaivisa.com to discuss moderation policy.

That covers anything about moderation. No matter how trivial.

[loonodingle]

"Concerned folks herein are scrutinizing possible evidence, while Thai cops are counting their bribe money, guzzling caffeine drinks and servicing their mia noi." *

So when you saw the 2 Thai cops counting their money, why did you just not tell them that you are seeking the truth and ask them from where did they get their money?

* http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/787155-koh-tao-murder-trial-rescheduled/page-14#entry8877348

Sometimes, Crab, you're so 'off-the-wall'. To answer your question (as if it warrants an answer); ....for the same reason I didn't grab the knife from the ISIS executioner in the desert, and stab him in the heart.

You would be far better off ignoring comments like this as you just add petrol to the fire and give the poor fella something to come back to. If its a flaming answer or trolling better to ignor them. They all ready have issues just sympathise with them and move on.

[loonodingle]

"Concerned folks herein are scrutinizing possible evidence, while Thai cops are counting their bribe money, guzzling caffeine drinks and servicing their mia noi." *

So when you saw the 2 Thai cops counting their money, why did you just not tell them that you are seeking the truth and ask them from where did they get their money?

* http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/787155-koh-tao-murder-trial-rescheduled/page-14#entry8877348

Sometimes, Crab, you're so 'off-the-wall'. To answer your question (as if it warrants an answer); ....for the same reason I didn't grab the knife from the ISIS executioner in the desert, and stab him in the heart.

So maybe you're really saying that you actually don't have the slightest idea whether any Thai police officer accepted any bribe money or not.

We also don't know if a taxi driver was beaten up for not accepting 700,000 baht to tell a lie for them.

The only thing we do know is Mon offered 700,000 baht to find anyone in his family guilty.

We as the general public can only comment on the things we read in the papers or see on the T.V. Therefore we make our opinions from these articals.

Some of us use quotes from films or lines from songs to help the cause. Some tell down right lies and make out there could have been on the scene and saw with there own eyes what happened. But if we are led to believe what the RTP tell us there are only 2 people in the whole world who were there and know what happened.

As I said I look at the T.V. I read the papers, I unlike many of the flock of followers am more than capable of thinking for myself.

Why do I think these two might not be guilty. Well there are hours of CCTV footage that showed people coming to and from the beach on the night of the murders.

There has been plenty of footage of the Burmese from before the crime on their bike, buying fags etc. Yet after the crime none.

Even Colombo would be mentioning his wife about that.

Try This

A Thai man said he was beaten up by police after he turned down a police offer of reward money if he agreed to be a witness in the murder case of two British tourists in Thailand’s tourist island of Koh Tao, southern Surat Thani Province, according to ASTV-Manager online.

The report says Pornprasit Sukdam, 37, on Tuesday complained to Kobchai Saowalak, kamnan (subdistrict head) of Koh Tao Subdistrict, and asked for protection.

http://prachatai.org/english/node/4373

[petercool]

An off topic post removed

[loonodingle]

Things like signing a petition is a positive step towards seeking truth and shouldn't require these kind of "moronic" conspiracy theories or unfounded speculation

Great to see JTJ supported the petition. Here's what it was calling for:

From a completely destroyed crime scene, racial slurs and finger pointing against foreigners, victim blaming from the General turned Prime Minister, police posting pictures of the dead victims bodies on their FB accounts (with no regard for the victims friends and families), countless releases of unnecessary and highly conflicting pieces of information/evidence to the media, reports of investigators beating and offering bribes to false witnesses (and then still being allowed to work on the case), reports of torturing of suspects, suspicious and insensitive re-enactments of the crime, and the well known fact that citizens of Myanmar are the usual choice of scapegoats in Thailand.

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller?

Hopefully those who signed the petition actually were better informed and knew what it was calling for as opposed to what you VERY incorrectly state it was calling for, which appears to be nothing and rather just a rant based on your above post.

In reality this is exactly and only thing that the petition called for was:

"This being said, we demand a full independent investigation to be conducted by the government of the United Kingdom into these deaths."

The goal as explained in the petition ...

"This is in the hope that the families of these victims may know justice has been served, and that the deaths of two more possible innocents might be avoided."

Interesting to note that if the petition did cause the UK Authorities to send investigators to Thailand then it has help the parents, as much as it can given this point in the case, feel justice will be served based on both families publicly stating their confidence in the evidence against the defendants in the same statement they advised social media theorist to stop their speculating as they not only knew all the evidence but what they were (are) doing is hurtful. Interesting because it is safe to assume many of these social media detective folks signed the petition but have not stopped yet in your post there is a complaint about lack of respect to the families.

On a side note, your post makes clear whomever wrote and the change.org petition was unprofessional, emotional and childish right from the hyperbole starting in the first line. But being so filled with emotion and light on logic and professional probably helped get those emotionally reactionary folks to sign quickly and if it helped facilitated getting UK Investigators over here then job well done! Just can't help think about what might have been accomplished and what answers might be public now had the petition been more professional and thoughtful in its request instead of the majority of it being an emotional rant against Thai authorities.

This is the Letter to David Cameron. It mentions many of the things JTJ claims wasn't any part of the petition. Being selective to serve a purpose is not what its about.

Letter to

Prime Minister David Cameron

UK Ambassador to Thailand Mark Kent The Government of the United Kingdom

Independently investigate the horrific murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller.

On September 15th, 2 innocent British citizens - David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23 were found raped and murdered in the most horrific manner possible whilst on holiday in Thailand on the island of Koh Tao. The Thai police’s flawed handling of this crime has been a grave cause of concern from both the local and international community from the very start of the investigation. The Thai authorities insensitive obsession with tourist figures and the police’s notoriously corrupt reputation around the world, has been in the forefront of these concerns.

From a completely destroyed crime scene, racial slurs and finger pointing against foreigners, victim blaming from the General turned Prime Minister, police posting pictures of the dead victims bodies on their FB accounts (with no regard for the victims friends and families), countless releases of unnecessary and highly conflicting pieces of information/evidence to the media, reports of investigators beating and offering bribes to false witnesses (and then still being allowed to work on the case), reports of torturing of suspects, suspicious and insensitive re-enactments of the crime, and the well known fact that citizens of Myanmar are the usual choice of scapegoats in Thailand.

The International and local community are now not able to trust that the two Myanmar nationals, Win and Saw,(surnames not yet revealed) have not had their confessions forced out of them or that evidence against them has not been tampered with. As such we cannot also trust that they are responsible. This being said, we demand a full independent investigation to be conducted by the government of the United Kingdom into these deaths. This is in the hope that the families of these victims may know justice has been served, and that the deaths of two more possible innocents might be avoided.

[JLCrab]

"Concerned folks herein are scrutinizing possible evidence, while Thai cops are counting their bribe money, guzzling caffeine drinks and servicing their mia noi." *

So when you saw the 2 Thai cops counting their money, why did you just not tell them that you are seeking the truth and ask them from where did they get their money?

* http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/787155-koh-tao-murder-trial-rescheduled/page-14#entry8877348

Sometimes, Crab, you're so 'off-the-wall'. To answer your question (as if it warrants an answer); ....for the same reason I didn't grab the knife from the ISIS executioner in the desert, and stab him in the heart.

You would be far better off ignoring comments like this as you just add petrol to the fire and give the poor fella something to come back to. If its a flaming answer or trolling better to ignor them. They all ready have issues just sympathise with them and move on.

So instead of ignoring my post, you're telling someone else to ignore the post that you could of ignored.

[loonodingle]

We also don't know if a taxi driver was beaten up for not accepting 700,000 baht to tell a lie for them.

The only thing we do know is Mon offered 700,000 baht to find anyone in his family guilty.

We as the general public can only comment on the things we read in the papers or see on the T.V. Therefore we make our opinions from these articals.

Some of us use quotes from films or lines from songs to help the cause. Some tell down right lies and make out there could have been on the scene and saw with there own eyes what happened. But if we are led to believe what the RTP tell us there are only 2 people in the whole world who were there and know what happened.

As I said I look at the T.V. I read the papers, I unlike many of the flock of followers am more than capable of thinking for myself.

Why do I think these two might not be guilty. Well there are hours of CCTV footage that showed people coming to and from the beach on the night of the murders.

There has been plenty of footage of the Burmese from before the crime on their bike, buying fags etc. Yet after the crime none.

Even Colombo would be mentioning his wife about that.

--- Just to clarify some numbers and facts ...

1 Million Baht is the amount he offered to donate to the Provincial Police Region 8 if police could come up with any substantial evidence that implicated him or his family in the crime.

700K Baht was the amount the general reward reached (surpassed) in the case around Sep. 21st

700k Baht is the same amount the Taxi driver claims police offered him to lie when they beat him up on Sep. 29th

--- Just to speculate...

Police may have been rough on the driver if they doubted his statements and may have played an interrogation technique of seeing how eager he would be to take the pressure off himself by police suggesting he accuse somebody else. Bottom line if you got an investigators this corrupt they are willing to pay a witness to lie they would have had a witness sooner and certainly wouldn't have to offer somebody 700k to lie when MANY people would do it for A LOT less and even allow the investigator to profit too by splitting the reward. And if you are one to believe the police planned to frame a Myanmar worker from the start, doesn't make sense they would apply this kind of pressure on a Thai to lie about another Thai as this day they were focusing on the Thai football team he was on that played the day of the murder. If they didn't want him to implicate another player then why did they choose him and only him to pay off with the total reward amount.

Bottom line is the Taxi driver story sounds like BS on a number of levels but I do think it plausible the driver may not be making it all up but rather shaken up / confused or exaggerating a bit rather than any real attempt to try to pay him such a huge amount to lie and then have investigators think they could beat him into carrying on a lie for a double murder trial only to release the guy, all within the same afternoon. The the Taxi driver who cannot be bought or tortured into a lie only to have the driver go to another island headsman who went to the press with the story included making the statement the driver wanted to declare his innocence but didn't want to pursue anything .... never saw any mention of actual injuries from the beating or even what the beating included.

But it could have happened and those who believe his story, many of whom basically call Thai Taxi drivers the scum of the earth who should not be trusted and are part of a mafia, may be right.

Un substantiated Speculation backed up with no facts whatsoever. In fact what JTJ is now doing what he claims most of us do... what's the saying? one rule for them and one for us

Edited January 25, 2015 by loonodingle

[loonodingle]

"Concerned folks herein are scrutinizing possible evidence, while Thai cops are counting their bribe money, guzzling caffeine drinks and servicing their mia noi." *

So when you saw the 2 Thai cops counting their money, why did you just not tell them that you are seeking the truth and ask them from where did they get their money?

* http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/787155-koh-tao-murder-trial-rescheduled/page-14#entry8877348

Sometimes, Crab, you're so 'off-the-wall'. To answer your question (as if it warrants an answer); ....for the same reason I didn't grab the knife from the ISIS executioner in the desert, and stab him in the heart.

You would be far better off ignoring comments like this as you just add petrol to the fire and give the poor fella something to come back to. If its a flaming answer or trolling better to ignor them. They all ready have issues just sympathise with them and move on.

So instead of ignoring my post, you're telling someone else to ignore the post that you could of ignored.

.

[JohnThailandJohn]

The thing I find one of the Most disturbing thing is NOT ONE of Hannahs friends come forward. Nothing zilch not any efforts. Shameful. Like she is forgotten and that's her mates.

That's 2 x Hannahs and Emma. Not a word. Moved on with their lives.

10612643_10152666574480944_2079143340602402089_n.jpg

15418_761649277214654_7945086390261549701_n.jpg

10615542_10154681896815640_5885366283607899743_n.jpg

I can understand the families grief. I cant understand why the Police have not told them how it is.... Actually retract that. We know why, save face. The RTP have made them look like Messenger Boys. They should have saved the UK tax payer the expenses and just posted them the info. 105,000 peoples hopes and dreams for verification when they signed the petition was worthless. But then you also see something there as well. Look at the makeup of the people who presented it to #10.

Tells a story hey

10662204_10204238773562300_9101007694428331342_o.jpg

10661851_751611368243742_2206625464764632376_o.jpg

Not Many of Hannah or David's friends there is there.

And then we hear how we mustn't upset the UK Families.

Well there's another 2 Families as well.

665d49ab8cc33a29630f6a706700499a.jpg

thailand-murder-reuters-102214_jpg.jpg

Still it seems they are not so important.

Some people manage to break smiles though.

The manager of the bar they had been drinking in seems to be in more of a joyous state.

14115481671411548327l.jpg

Yes, murders happen every day and people accept and move on especially when the police make arrests against those who are likely guilty and there is overwhelming evidence against. Yes even murdering rapists cause hardship for their own families in addition to destroying the lives of their victims and loved ones.

And yes there will be those that get obsessed in an unhealthy way about some news stories and think they know more about the facts than experts or in this case UK investigators and families who believe the right people have been arrested and will stand trial and who have asked for the moronic social media nonsense to stop and yet these same obsessed people go on to make comments about the victims loved ones or friends as if somehow these people obsessing have some greater concern for the victims they don't know as opposed to what is driving their unhealthy obsession and hurtful and disrespectful comments to the family and loved ones of the victims.

This was the beginning of JTJ's rant

I mentioned the fact that on the face of it none of the friends of the 2 deceased had been present at the hand over at No 10

Also in a protest picture.

The have failed to come forward to offer any evidence no matter how small. So I questioned in how good a friend they have proved to be. In a sense if you read it.

JTJ then went onto describe people as Morons. A whole paragraph of off topic abuse that you can read on post http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/787155-koh-tao-murder-trial-rescheduled/?p=8982187

I also mentioned further that the Lead Lawyer is working Pro Bono. I didn't mention anyone else but him. the same guy you see walking into court.

The Burmese Gov has also funded lawyers and then there's even more from Thailand. Some who are working Pro Bono. Other than the fact that the Burmese Gov do not normally fund Lawyers so they obviously think there is a good possibility a miscarriage of justice could be unfolding the rest is all irrelevant and off topic.

The UK Gov never funds lawyers regardless. Even if you are on death row. Forget it M8 u r on your own.

There's obviously a very strong sense that they have the wrong 2 guys right across Thai society. Forget the UK except for a few small pockets of protest on humanitarian grounds from people like myself, who certain people take pleasure in ridiculing. This is a phenomenon that is rare un almost unheard off. As far back as I can remember I cannot think of anything that's grabbed peoples attention in such a galvanising way. One of the The Top Forensic pathologists in Thailand even going on TV to denounce the procedure followed by the RTP. Speaks volumes

Sorry dude or gal, this time you lost me. You're quoting my post which was in response to your making what I saw as baseless judgmental and negative comments against friends of the victims based on illogical assumptions. It is not even clear you are trying to communicate with me in your post but seems more like your speaking to a 3rd party like an imagined marriage counselor you're seeking advice or opinion regarding our communications. The rest of you post just seems to go into random thoughts.

I have joked with you on a couple threads about your stalking me on today because I thought your obsession with me cute but now not sure if your current goal is to communicate with me, get my attention or to report me to other posters since your recent request on the other thread to get others to report me to mods failed. By the way, you are not going to tell anyone here anything about me they don't already know.

Bottom line, if you want my attention or to interact with me then give me something I can respond to beyond telling you I don't get your point or what your saying as this will get boring very fast.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Things like signing a petition is a positive step towards seeking truth and shouldn't require these kind of "moronic" conspiracy theories or unfounded speculation

Great to see JTJ supported the petition. Here's what it was calling for:

From a completely destroyed crime scene, racial slurs and finger pointing against foreigners, victim blaming from the General turned Prime Minister, police posting pictures of the dead victims bodies on their FB accounts (with no regard for the victims friends and families), countless releases of unnecessary and highly conflicting pieces of information/evidence to the media, reports of investigators beating and offering bribes to false witnesses (and then still being allowed to work on the case), reports of torturing of suspects, suspicious and insensitive re-enactments of the crime, and the well known fact that citizens of Myanmar are the usual choice of scapegoats in Thailand.

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller?

Hopefully those who signed the petition actually were better informed and knew what it was calling for as opposed to what you VERY incorrectly state it was calling for, which appears to be nothing and rather just a rant based on your above post.

In reality this is exactly and only thing that the petition called for was:

"This being said, we demand a full independent investigation to be conducted by the government of the United Kingdom into these deaths."

This is the Letter to David Cameron. It mentions many of the things JTJ claims wasn't any part of the petition. Being selective to serve a purpose is not what its about.

<snip>

I think it is very clear to everyone the full petition at change.org is located at the link above. So no reason for you to repost the entire thing when trying to making a faux arguments since you are either being dishonest or obtuse to claim I said parts of the text were not included in the petition. I think it crystal clear the discussion was what the petition "called for" and by making clear, as anyone who read the petion would know, the one thing being "called for" within the petition was to have full independent investigation to be conducted by the government of the United Kingdom into these deaths

Not at all being selective but simply being accurate in describing what the petition was petitioning or call for.

Edited January 25, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[berybert]

JTJ's posts are getting longer and seem to be saying less all the time. Time to give the old boy a rest I reckon.

[AleG]

Well, at least you're using a different word (moronic) that jdinasia (everyone is a conspiracy theorist who doesn't agree with me') and AleG ('show me facts' even after facts have been shown).

Here are some 'baseless far-fetched theories without any facts to back them up' for JTJ to peruse:

>>> Nomsod and Mon were prime suspects in first part of investigation

>>> David's blood was not found on the hoe, yet the hoe was used in the reenactment

>>> No bloody clothes were found outside the immediate crime scene

>>> CCTV from the beach bars was not demanded by investigators

>>> investigators didn't look at the scene in the bars that night

>>> investigators didn't look at anyone's phone records/history/texts for Monday.

>>> investigators didn't do full body searches of anyone, except maybe the scapegoats.

>>> The PM said this was a 'perfect investigation'

>>> The PM said Brit experts would only be allowed as observers. No investigating whatsoever.

>>> Ms Porntip said the DNA trail could not be trusted. (ironically, this is an advantage for Mon and Nomsod, if it's ever shown that their DNA matches that found on/in Hannah)

>>> Cops said they found Hannah's phone behind the scapegoats' shack.

there are a plethora of more far-fetched theories which TRT and other RTP echoers don't want to agree, with, but I'm tiring of typing......

You got the far fetched, baseless part right. As usual a load of speculation, unwarranted assumptions and innuendo.

>>> Nomsod and Mon were prime suspects in first part of investigation

Yes, and they were not the only prime suspects, they are however the only ones you have latched emotionally to.

>>> David's blood was not found on the hoe, yet the hoe was used in the reenactment

No hoe was used for the reenactment, even if he was hit by the hoe it doesn't mean that it must necessarily end up stained with his blood since you don't know if the blows with the hoe (if there were any) produced bleeding.

>>> No bloody clothes were found outside the immediate crime scene

The significance of this completely eludes me...

>>> CCTV from the beach bars was not demanded by investigators

We must have all dreamed about all the CCTV footage released by the police then.

>>> investigators didn't look at the scene in the bars that night

And you know this why and how?

>>> investigators didn't look at anyone's phone records/history/texts for Monday.

Again, pure speculation from your part since you have no idea what the police did or did not do.

>>> investigators didn't do full body searches of anyone, except maybe the scapegoats.

"Except maybe"... yes, speculation again.

>>> The PM said this was a 'perfect investigation'

No he didn't say that, he said the investigation was complete.

>>> The PM said Brit experts would only be allowed as observers. No investigating whatsoever.

The UK police has no jurisdiction to investigate in Thailand.

>>> Ms Porntip said the DNA trail could not be trusted. (ironically, this is an advantage for Mon and Nomsod, if it's ever shown that their DNA matches that found on/in Hannah)

She didn't say the trail could not be trusted, she questioned the procedures performed, as far as I know she hasn't discredited the results of the DNA analysis.

>>> Cops said they found Hannah's phone behind the scapegoats' shack.

They never said they found Hannah's phone behind the scapegoats' shack...

It was one instance of one policeman confusing the victim's names, the phone found was Miller's, you know it was a misunderstanding, but you'll pick that cherry until they pry it from cold, death hand.

[boomerangutang]

AleG, you're grasping (in your post #1594) and it shows. You wind up agreeing with me (very reluctantly) on most points, but offer excuses for RTP ineptitude, as if excuses refute the truth of what I listed.

[loonodingle]

I think it is very clear to everyone the full petition at change.org is located at the link above. So no reason for you to repost the entire thing when trying to making a faux arguments since you are either being dishonest or obtuse to claim I said parts of the text were not included in the petition. I think it crystal clear the discussion was what the petition "called for" and by making clear, as anyone who read the petion would know, the one thing being "called for" within the petition was to have full independent investigation to be conducted by the government of the United Kingdom into these deaths

Not at all being selective but simply being accurate in describing what the petition was petitioning or call for.

No Investigations carried out. No human rights abuses investigated. No advice given to the Thai investigators. No possession of Physical evidence, forensic evidence, exhibits, interviews or statements.

Perhaps instead of sending 3 officers to be messenger boys for the RTP they could of just sent the families a letter of assurance.???

In fact the police are refusing to share any report they compile. Make of that what you will.

[007cableguy]

Well, at least you're using a different word (moronic) that jdinasia (everyone is a conspiracy theorist who doesn't agree with me') and AleG ('show me facts' even after facts have been shown).

Here are some 'baseless far-fetched theories without any facts to back them up' for JTJ to peruse:

>>> Nomsod and Mon were prime suspects in first part of investigation

>>> David's blood was not found on the hoe, yet the hoe was used in the reenactment

>>> No bloody clothes were found outside the immediate crime scene

>>> CCTV from the beach bars was not demanded by investigators

>>> investigators didn't look at the scene in the bars that night

>>> investigators didn't look at anyone's phone records/history/texts for Monday.

>>> investigators didn't do full body searches of anyone, except maybe the scapegoats.

>>> The PM said this was a 'perfect investigation'

>>> The PM said Brit experts would only be allowed as observers. No investigating whatsoever.

>>> Ms Porntip said the DNA trail could not be trusted. (ironically, this is an advantage for Mon and Nomsod, if it's ever shown that their DNA matches that found on/in Hannah)

>>> Cops said they found Hannah's phone behind the scapegoats' shack.

there are a plethora of more far-fetched theories which TRT and other RTP echoers don't want to agree, with, but I'm tiring of typing......

You got the far fetched, baseless part right. As usual a load of speculation, unwarranted assumptions and innuendo.

>>> Nomsod and Mon were prime suspects in first part of investigation

Yes, and they were not the only prime suspects, they are however the only ones you have latched emotionally to.

>>> David's blood was not found on the hoe, yet the hoe was used in the reenactment

No hoe was used for the reenactment, even if he was hit by the hoe it doesn't mean that it must necessarily end up stained with his blood since you don't know if the blows with the hoe (if there were any) produced bleeding.

>>> No bloody clothes were found outside the immediate crime scene

The significance of this completely eludes me...

>>> CCTV from the beach bars was not demanded by investigators

We must have all dreamed about all the CCTV footage released by the police then.

>>> investigators didn't look at the scene in the bars that night

And you know this why and how?

>>> investigators didn't look at anyone's phone records/history/texts for Monday.

Again, pure speculation from your part since you have no idea what the police did or did not do.

>>> investigators didn't do full body searches of anyone, except maybe the scapegoats.

"Except maybe"... yes, speculation again.

>>> The PM said this was a 'perfect investigation'

No he didn't say that, he said the investigation was complete.

>>> The PM said Brit experts would only be allowed as observers. No investigating whatsoever.

The UK police has no jurisdiction to investigate in Thailand.

>>> Ms Porntip said the DNA trail could not be trusted. (ironically, this is an advantage for Mon and Nomsod, if it's ever shown that their DNA matches that found on/in Hannah)

She didn't say the trail could not be trusted, she questioned the procedures performed, as far as I know she hasn't discredited the results of the DNA analysis.

>>> Cops said they found Hannah's phone behind the scapegoats' shack.

They never said they found Hannah's phone behind the scapegoats' shack...

It was one instance of one policeman confusing the victim's names, the phone found was Miller's, you know it was a misunderstanding, but you'll pick that cherry until they pry it from cold, death hand.

Oh please can you and Thailand joke get a room ............getting sick of your spiel!

[loonodingle]

Well, at least you're using a different word (moronic) that jdinasia (everyone is a conspiracy theorist who doesn't agree with me') and AleG ('show me facts' even after facts have been shown).

Here are some 'baseless far-fetched theories without any facts to back them up' for JTJ to peruse:

>>> Nomsod and Mon were prime suspects in first part of investigation

>>> David's blood was not found on the hoe, yet the hoe was used in the reenactment

>>> No bloody clothes were found outside the immediate crime scene

>>> CCTV from the beach bars was not demanded by investigators

>>> investigators didn't look at the scene in the bars that night

>>> investigators didn't look at anyone's phone records/history/texts for Monday.

>>> investigators didn't do full body searches of anyone, except maybe the scapegoats.

>>> The PM said this was a 'perfect investigation'

>>> The PM said Brit experts would only be allowed as observers. No investigating whatsoever.

>>> Ms Porntip said the DNA trail could not be trusted. (ironically, this is an advantage for Mon and Nomsod, if it's ever shown that their DNA matches that found on/in Hannah)

>>> Cops said they found Hannah's phone behind the scapegoats' shack.

there are a plethora of more far-fetched theories which TRT and other RTP echoers don't want to agree, with, but I'm tiring of typing......

You got the far fetched, baseless part right. As usual a load of speculation, unwarranted assumptions and innuendo.

>>> Nomsod and Mon were prime suspects in first part of investigation

Yes, and they were not the only prime suspects, they are however the only ones you have latched emotionally to.

>>> David's blood was not found on the hoe, yet the hoe was used in the reenactment

No hoe was used for the reenactment, even if he was hit by the hoe it doesn't mean that it must necessarily end up stained with his blood since you don't know if the blows with the hoe (if there were any) produced bleeding.

>>> No bloody clothes were found outside the immediate crime scene

The significance of this completely eludes me...

>>> CCTV from the beach bars was not demanded by investigators

We must have all dreamed about all the CCTV footage released by the police then.

>>> investigators didn't look at the scene in the bars that night

And you know this why and how?

>>> investigators didn't look at anyone's phone records/history/texts for Monday.

Again, pure speculation from your part since you have no idea what the police did or did not do.

>>> investigators didn't do full body searches of anyone, except maybe the scapegoats.

"Except maybe"... yes, speculation again.

>>> The PM said this was a 'perfect investigation'

No he didn't say that, he said the investigation was complete.

>>> The PM said Brit experts would only be allowed as observers. No investigating whatsoever.

The UK police has no jurisdiction to investigate in Thailand.

>>> Ms Porntip said the DNA trail could not be trusted. (ironically, this is an advantage for Mon and Nomsod, if it's ever shown that their DNA matches that found on/in Hannah)

She didn't say the trail could not be trusted, she questioned the procedures performed, as far as I know she hasn't discredited the results of the DNA analysis.

>>> Cops said they found Hannah's phone behind the scapegoats' shack.

They never said they found Hannah's phone behind the scapegoats' shack...

It was one instance of one policeman confusing the victim's names, the phone found was Miller's, you know it was a misunderstanding, but you'll pick that cherry until they pry it from cold, death hand.

Everyone speculates. no one on here has the case files.

[JohnThailandJohn]

We also don't know if a taxi driver was beaten up for not accepting 700,000 baht to tell a lie for them.

The only thing we do know is Mon offered 700,000 baht to find anyone in his family guilty.

We as the general public can only comment on the things we read in the papers or see on the T.V. Therefore we make our opinions from these articals.

Some of us use quotes from films or lines from songs to help the cause. Some tell down right lies and make out there could have been on the scene and saw with there own eyes what happened. But if we are led to believe what the RTP tell us there are only 2 people in the whole world who were there and know what happened.

As I said I look at the T.V. I read the papers, I unlike many of the flock of followers am more than capable of thinking for myself.

Why do I think these two might not be guilty. Well there are hours of CCTV footage that showed people coming to and from the beach on the night of the murders.

There has been plenty of footage of the Burmese from before the crime on their bike, buying fags etc. Yet after the crime none.

Even Colombo would be mentioning his wife about that.

--- Just to clarify some numbers and facts ...

1 Million Baht is the amount he offered to donate to the Provincial Police Region 8 if police could come up with any substantial evidence that implicated him or his family in the crime.

700K Baht was the amount the general reward reached (surpassed) in the case around Sep. 21st

700k Baht is the same amount the Taxi driver claims police offered him to lie when they beat him up on Sep. 29th

--- Just to speculate...

Police may have been rough on the driver if they doubted his statements and may have played an interrogation technique of seeing how eager he would be to take the pressure off himself by police suggesting he accuse somebody else. Bottom line if you got an investigators this corrupt they are willing to pay a witness to lie they would have had a witness sooner and certainly wouldn't have to offer somebody 700k to lie when MANY people would do it for A LOT less and even allow the investigator to profit too by splitting the reward. And if you are one to believe the police planned to frame a Myanmar worker from the start, doesn't make sense they would apply this kind of pressure on a Thai to lie about another Thai as this day they were focusing on the Thai football team he was on that played the day of the murder. If they didn't want him to implicate another player then why did they choose him and only him to pay off with the total reward amount.

Bottom line is the Taxi driver story sounds like BS on a number of levels but I do think it plausible the driver may not be making it all up but rather shaken up / confused or exaggerating a bit rather than any real attempt to try to pay him such a huge amount to lie and then have investigators think they could beat him into carrying on a lie for a double murder trial only to release the guy, all within the same afternoon. The the Taxi driver who cannot be bought or tortured into a lie only to have the driver go to another island headsman who went to the press with the story included making the statement the driver wanted to declare his innocence but didn't want to pursue anything .... never saw any mention of actual injuries from the beating or even what the beating included.

But it could have happened and those who believe his story, many of whom basically call Thai Taxi drivers the scum of the earth who should not be trusted and are part of a mafia, may be right.

Un substantiated Speculation backed up with no facts whatsoever. In fact what JTJ is now doing what he claims most of us do... what's the saying? one rule for them and one for us

Actually I very clearly stated facts and very clearly used logic in my speculation and made crystal clear what part of the above was fact and what part was speculation and opinion.

More importantly,I have not only never told anyone they shouldn't or cannot speculate or have opinions. In fact I have stated numerous times the opposite since none of know the facts and evidence or are part of the investigation and this leaves only speculation and opinions for most things about this case. Challenging or disagreeing with another's opinion or pointing out when somebody is being dishonest, stating opinion as fact or even being illogical or hypocritical among other things is certainly not an indication that one believes people shouldn't have or share their speculations at least not in any reality I am aware.

Based on your numerous attempts to discredit me in such clearly obtuse ways, I am having a hard time determining if you are purposely being dishonest to harass me and/or you simply avoid reality if it doesn't conform with what you want to believe or if you really have this much trouble with comprehension. Regardless, any or all would explain some of your opinions but if it is a personal thing then why not try the ignore function. I don't mind responding and pointing out the obvious to you and happy to continue to but when emotions fades with this case and logic takes over, these post from you will still remain and people are not going to simply agree because you are on the conspiracy or innocent side of the debate but rather see just how extremely disingenuous you can be in discussion.

[AleG]

AleG, you're grasping (in your post #1594) and it shows. You wind up agreeing with me (very reluctantly) on most points, but offer excuses for RTP ineptitude, as if excuses refute the truth of what I listed.

Refuting is agreeing in boomerangutang's world.

No wonder you reach fanciful conclusions with your logic.

[JohnThailandJohn]

I think it is very clear to everyone the full petition at change.org is located at the link above. So no reason for you to repost the entire thing when trying to making a faux arguments since you are either being dishonest or obtuse to claim I said parts of the text were not included in the petition. I think it crystal clear the discussion was what the petition "called for" and by making clear, as anyone who read the petion would know, the one thing being "called for" within the petition was to have full independent investigation to be conducted by the government of the United Kingdom into these deaths

Not at all being selective but simply being accurate in describing what the petition was petitioning or call for.

No Investigations carried out. No human rights abuses investigated. No advice given to the Thai investigators. No possession of Physical evidence, forensic evidence, exhibits, interviews or statements.

Perhaps instead of sending 3 officers to be messenger boys for the RTP they could of just sent the families a letter of assurance.???

In fact the police are refusing to share any report they compile. Make of that what you will.

Met Police 1.jpg

Your non sequiturs are getting more and more difficult to follow.

Again you are posting are responding to a post of mine with completely unrelated comments I have no idea what to make of or why you are directing them at me. I see three question marks in there but not sure if there is an actual question there and if there is how it even remotely comes close to not only the post of mine you are responding but anything being discussed in general or how it relates to me.

[loonodingle]

We also don't know if a taxi driver was beaten up for not accepting 700,000 baht to tell a lie for them.

The only thing we do know is Mon offered 700,000 baht to find anyone in his family guilty.

We as the general public can only comment on the things we read in the papers or see on the T.V. Therefore we make our opinions from these articals.

Some of us use quotes from films or lines from songs to help the cause. Some tell down right lies and make out there could have been on the scene and saw with there own eyes what happened. But if we are led to believe what the RTP tell us there are only 2 people in the whole world who were there and know what happened.

As I said I look at the T.V. I read the papers, I unlike many of the flock of followers am more than capable of thinking for myself.

Why do I think these two might not be guilty. Well there are hours of CCTV footage that showed people coming to and from the beach on the night of the murders.

There has been plenty of footage of the Burmese from before the crime on their bike, buying fags etc. Yet after the crime none.

Even Colombo would be mentioning his wife about that.

--- Just to clarify some numbers and facts ...

1 Million Baht is the amount he offered to donate to the Provincial Police Region 8 if police could come up with any substantial evidence that implicated him or his family in the crime.

700K Baht was the amount the general reward reached (surpassed) in the case around Sep. 21st

700k Baht is the same amount the Taxi driver claims police offered him to lie when they beat him up on Sep. 29th

--- Just to speculate...

Police may have been rough on the driver if they doubted his statements and may have played an interrogation technique of seeing how eager he would be to take the pressure off himself by police suggesting he accuse somebody else. Bottom line if you got an investigators this corrupt they are willing to pay a witness to lie they would have had a witness sooner and certainly wouldn't have to offer somebody 700k to lie when MANY people would do it for A LOT less and even allow the investigator to profit too by splitting the reward. And if you are one to believe the police planned to frame a Myanmar worker from the start, doesn't make sense they would apply this kind of pressure on a Thai to lie about another Thai as this day they were focusing on the Thai football team he was on that played the day of the murder. If they didn't want him to implicate another player then why did they choose him and only him to pay off with the total reward amount.

Bottom line is the Taxi driver story sounds like BS on a number of levels but I do think it plausible the driver may not be making it all up but rather shaken up / confused or exaggerating a bit rather than any real attempt to try to pay him such a huge amount to lie and then have investigators think they could beat him into carrying on a lie for a double murder trial only to release the guy, all within the same afternoon. The the Taxi driver who cannot be bought or tortured into a lie only to have the driver go to another island headsman who went to the press with the story included making the statement the driver wanted to declare his innocence but didn't want to pursue anything .... never saw any mention of actual injuries from the beating or even what the beating included.

But it could have happened and those who believe his story, many of whom basically call Thai Taxi drivers the scum of the earth who should not be trusted and are part of a mafia, may be right.

Un substantiated Speculation backed up with no facts whatsoever. In fact what JTJ is now doing what he claims most of us do... what's the saying? one rule for them and one for us

Actually I very clearly stated facts and very clearly used logic in my speculation and made crystal clear what part of the above was fact and what part was speculation and opinion.

More importantly,I have not only never told anyone they shouldn't or cannot speculate or have opinions. In fact I have stated numerous times the opposite since none of know the facts and evidence or are part of the investigation and this leaves only speculation and opinions for most things about this case. Challenging or disagreeing with another's opinion or pointing out when somebody is being dishonest, stating opinion as fact or even being illogical or hypocritical among other things is certainly not an indication that one believes people shouldn't have or share their speculations at least not in any reality I am aware.

Based on your numerous attempts to discredit me in such clearly obtuse ways, I am having a hard time determining if you are purposely being dishonest to harass me and/or you simply avoid reality if it doesn't conform with what you want to believe or if you really have this much trouble with comprehension. Regardless, any or all would explain some of your opinions but if it is a personal thing then why not try the ignore function. I don't mind responding and pointing out the obvious to you and happy to continue to but when emotions fades with this case and logic takes over, these post from you will still remain and people are not going to simply agree because you are on the conspiracy or innocent side of the debate but rather see just how extremely disingenuous you can be in discussion.

Further Un substantiated Speculation backed up with no facts whatsoever.

I am not on any side. I do not have enough evidence to find them guilty or not guilty if I was a judge. I was rather hoping the UK Gov was going to investigate and verify. That's my grief in this matter. As has been revealed that's not happened. I also cant help feel its a shame the friends have not spoken to help prove or disprove any facts the Defence would like to ask. All I would like to see is the correct persons executed. I don't not agree with Reprieves no execution policy. Despite you insinuations targeting me you are way off the mark, Perhaps you are ruffled or feel exposed, I am not sure? I raise valid points in the majority of my posts. Other than suggestions to ignore stupid responses I don't go around describing people or their posts as Moronic either. I cant stoop to that way of conversing with the fellow members. The genuine people here wish to see a transparent investigation. They are wary of the RTP as are many Thai citizens and quite rightly so.

[loonodingle]

I think it is very clear to everyone the full petition at change.org is located at the link above. So no reason for you to repost the entire thing when trying to making a faux arguments since you are either being dishonest or obtuse to claim I said parts of the text were not included in the petition. I think it crystal clear the discussion was what the petition "called for" and by making clear, as anyone who read the petion would know, the one thing being "called for" within the petition was to have full independent investigation to be conducted by the government of the United Kingdom into these deaths

Not at all being selective but simply being accurate in describing what the petition was petitioning or call for.

No Investigations carried out. No human rights abuses investigated. No advice given to the Thai investigators. No possession of Physical evidence, forensic evidence, exhibits, interviews or statements.

Perhaps instead of sending 3 officers to be messenger boys for the RTP they could of just sent the families a letter of assurance.???

In fact the police are refusing to share any report they compile. Make of that what you will.

Met Police 1.jpg

Your non sequiturs are getting more and more difficult to follow.

Again you are posting are responding to a post of mine with completely unrelated comments I have no idea what to make of or why you are directing them at me. I see three question marks in there but not sure if there is an actual question there and if there is how it even remotely comes close to not only the post of mine you are responding but anything being discussed in general or how it relates to me.

If you are finding it hard to follow just a few lines then perhaps that should be a concern. Top marks for your ability to count to 3 though. Did you have to take your mittens of to do it?....yes that's 1 don't want to stress you.

The petition was as you very correctly stated: full independent investigation to be conducted by the government of the United Kingdom into these deaths

I was reminding the other members who may have joined the thread that in fact that actually it didn't happen and this is confirmed in the attachment.

Can I respectfully remind you that this thread isn't about me and you or any other selective members, there's a far wider audience and this thread has had 10's of thousand's of views. Keeping the facts to the front of the thread is very important, rather than see it evolve into ridiculing each others posts and views. Rather than clog the thread with these silly lines send me a private message. In the mean time re read the question. It really isn't hard to work out if you put your mind to it.