Koh Tao murder trial rescheduled

[DKUNPUTAF713]

Post #1955

<<That is so sad about the site not letting them get donations . I try to make a donation when I can . If anyone wants the account they can pm me .>>

I still make my periodic donations through the SCB account that was shown in the thread earlier!

I am sure other members and interested persons still have that info and still making their donations.

[greenchair]

Post #1955

<<That is so sad about the site not letting them get donations . I try to make a donation when I can . If anyone wants the account they can pm me .>>

I still make my periodic donations through the SCB account that was shown in the thread earlier!

I am sure other members and interested persons still have that info and still making their donations.

Yes, I use the scb account too.

Quite frankly, I found the ucare thing a bit of pain. but the scb was so convenient. I just popped in and am finished in a couple of minutes. Once I only put in 500 baht. But I am sure every bit will help to defend the burmese young men.

[boomerangutang]

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berybert, on 15 Feb 2015 - 02:53, said:

Hoe with no DNA or fingerprints. No bloodied clothes full stop. Condom with sperm on the outside only. Blond hair snagged to the phone, what phone ? Take your pick. 3 sets of DNA on body, 3rd set of no interest to RTP. Many more.

If swiss cheese had this many holes, there would be no cheese.

I think the condom is a completely irrelevant red herring. Apparently it had a drop of Hannah's blood on the outside which, if true, just means it was laying around at the murder scene.

https://crimesontheblog.wordpress.com/category/koh-tao-sept-2014/the-players-more/crime-scene/

Condom found

• initially said to contain victim HWs DNA on the outside

• no other DNA (inside)

• re-enactment: it is considered unrelated to the crime

• only blood drop of victim HW was found on the condom

I agree, the condom is probably a red-herring, as is the cig butt. It's a party beach, for kryssake. backpackers have probably been going to those rocks on the beach for many years, perhaps decades. That's why investigators should reconstruct the trends on that beach, involving the nearby bars and which guys are known to take girls down there. I'm not saying it's bad for guys to seduce chicks (if there's no harm done), but rather: setting precedent with 'persons of interest' would be a big step in the direction of determining who's involved with the crime.

If there were a tramp at the end of your street, and every time any one of a group of young girls walked by him, alone, she got red-faced, angry and/or offended - you might assume something was weird. You might want to know what the tramp was saying/doing. Using that scenario, Thai cops wouldn't care. They might say, "Well, you young girls are pretty, and you dress scantilly and smell so seductive, so why be surprised if a strange man says something rude, or touches you in places you shouldn't be touched."

[stephen terry]

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berybert, on 15 Feb 2015 - 02:53, said:

Hoe with no DNA or fingerprints. No bloodied clothes full stop. Condom with sperm on the outside only. Blond hair snagged to the phone, what phone ? Take your pick. 3 sets of DNA on body, 3rd set of no interest to RTP. Many more.

If swiss cheese had this many holes, there would be no cheese.

I think the condom is a completely irrelevant red herring. Apparently it had a drop of Hannah's blood on the outside which, if true, just means it was laying around at the murder scene.

https://crimesontheblog.wordpress.com/category/koh-tao-sept-2014/the-players-more/crime-scene/

Condom found

• initially said to contain victim HWs DNA on the outside

• no other DNA (inside)

• re-enactment: it is considered unrelated to the crime

• only blood drop of victim HW was found on the condom

I agree, the condom is probably a red-herring, as is the cig butt. It's a party beach, for kryssake. backpackers have probably been going to those rocks on the beach for many years, perhaps decades. That's why investigators should reconstruct the trends on that beach, involving the nearby bars and which guys are known to take girls down there. I'm not saying it's bad for guys to seduce chicks (if there's no harm done), but rather: setting precedent with 'persons of interest' would be a big step in the direction of determining who's involved with the crime.

If there were a tramp at the end of your street, and every time any one of a group of young girls walked by him, alone, she got red-faced, angry and/or offended - you might assume something was weird. You might want to know what the tramp was saying/doing. Using that scenario, Thai cops wouldn't care. They might say, "Well, you young girls are pretty, and you dress scantilly and smell so seductive, so why be surprised if a strange man says something rude, or touches you in places you shouldn't be touched."

I'm pretty sure the islanders know who are the killers. The police only had to look at ALL the CCTVs, but as we know (from initial reports) the headman refused to hand his over, and the police permitted this stating that they were private property. Therefore, only two conclusions - influential people are hiding one or more perps, and logically the B2 cannot be implicated.

I hope the defence is able to prove this, or at least cast reasonable doubt on the prosecution's case that CCTV was unavailable. Actually it could work very well for the defence - if there is no CCTV covering any part of the beach area (for whatever reason) it is evidential that the B2 weren't captured on film apart from buying cigarettes at a 7-eleven, therefore no proof they were later at the crime scene.

[MaxLee]

What if this whole fiasco is rescheduled until another year later, folks?...

[greenchair]

What if this whole fiasco is rescheduled until another year later, folks?...

Sadly, the b2 should not look forward to being out anytime soon. 95% of cases in the first court are lost. Often the case has a much better chance in the appeal. Even if all evidence, and witnesses are finished by October. There will be a month or 2 to wait for the verdict.

If they win, they probably could not expect to be out before December or January 2016.

If they lose ,but win on appeal they might get out by late 2017 or early 2018. ????

By then most people will have forgotten them.

[greenchair]

It all comes down to the dna really.

[berybert]

Its amazing what can happen when you actually look at the evidence you have. Anyone for Turkish delight.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/800670-two-confess-to-killing-turkish-tourist-in-samui/?utm_source=newsletter-20150216-0800&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

[FangFerang]

"A defence lawyer had earlier made a request to the court, asking for extra statements from more than 15 Myanmar workers on the tourist island included as defence witnesses. It said they earlier had fears for their lives if they gave statements to the Thai police while in Thailand. But this request was turned down by the court, on grounds that all existing witnesses were already on the lists, including 60 people on the public prosecutors' list"

Interesting conclusion from the court. We have all the prosecutor's witnesses, therefore we have all the witnesses....none of that witness-for-the-defence stuff here. Harrumph, harrumph, and (quiet) chortle.

[loonodingle]

Whilst they have the unverified DNA i feel the jobs in the bag for the prosecution. Very difficult to argue that unless they get a satisfactory explanation.

I fear it's a slam dunk.

[Neeranam]

Post #1955

<<That is so sad about the site not letting them get donations . I try to make a donation when I can . If anyone wants the account they can pm me .>>

I still make my periodic donations through the SCB account that was shown in the thread earlier!

I am sure other members and interested persons still have that info and still making their donations.

Yes, I use the scb account too.

Quite frankly, I found the ucare thing a bit of pain. but the scb was so convenient. I just popped in and am finished in a couple of minutes. Once I only put in 500 baht. But I am sure every bit will help to defend the burmese young men.

Why on earth should farang in Thailand help the Burmese migrant workers in Thailand? I'll not be giving a single baht, the Burmese government are involved and so was David Cameron. No wonder Thai think farang are gullible and easily conned.Let the other migrant workers help them by testifying or by helping financially.

Is it because they can't accept the way of life here?

Edited February 16, 2015 by Neeranam

[boomerangutang]

What if this whole fiasco is rescheduled until another year later, folks?...

Sadly, the b2 should not look forward to being out anytime soon. 95% of cases in the first court are lost. Often the case has a much better chance in the appeal. Even if all evidence, and witnesses are finished by October. There will be a month or 2 to wait for the verdict.

If they win, they probably could not expect to be out before December or January 2016.

If they lose ,but win on appeal they might get out by late 2017 or early 2018. ????

By then most people will have forgotten them.

Fits nicely with the Headman's, Mon's, and the RTP brass' plan. I doubt any of them want the B2 to be executed, but their priority is to shield Nomsod and other Headman's people. If the B2 have to waste many moons in jail, well that's too bad, but it's a whole lot better (in their view) than Mon of Nomsod being there. Welcome to Thai-style justice.

It all comes down to the dna really.

To a large extent, yes. The B2 have already admitted to being on the beach, near the crime scene, in the wee hours (after midnight) of Monday. There should be a slew of interesting surprises this summer, particularly if Sean testifies and/or if Porntip is called as an 'expert witness' - which I'm pretty sure she will be. I wish the judge hadn't put the trial off for so many months. I doubt it does any good for the defense. It helps the prosecution a bit for two main reasons: clues implicating Mon and Nomsod become more 'dated' (physical scars heal, witnesses are harder to find, etc), and the general public's interest fades with each passing month.

[Maestro]

Removed a topic with an unfounded speculation about miscarriage of justice.

[Neeranam]

Fresh milk is what all my Thai friends say about this case.

[stephen terry]

Fresh milk is what all my Thai friends say about this case.

Obviously he was involved. Any rational person can see that. But he is protected, so he is protected.

[stephen terry]

Post #1955

<<That is so sad about the site not letting them get donations . I try to make a donation when I can . If anyone wants the account they can pm me .>>

I still make my periodic donations through the SCB account that was shown in the thread earlier!

I am sure other members and interested persons still have that info and still making their donations.

Yes, I use the scb account too.

Quite frankly, I found the ucare thing a bit of pain. but the scb was so convenient. I just popped in and am finished in a couple of minutes. Once I only put in 500 baht. But I am sure every bit will help to defend the burmese young men.

Why on earth should farang in Thailand help the Burmese migrant workers in Thailand? I'll not be giving a single baht, the Burmese government are involved and so was David Cameron. No wonder Thai think farang are gullible and easily conned.Let the other migrant workers help them by testifying or by helping financially.

Is it because they can't accept the way of life here?

Yes, let them die, being totally innocent of any crime except being here. It's the sort of blind mentality that blames everyone else, and not take a sense of personal justice on board. I just hope you don't find yourself in a similar situation, looking out of a cell window every day.

[rockingrobin]

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berybert, on 15 Feb 2015 - 02:53, said:

Hoe with no DNA or fingerprints. No bloodied clothes full stop. Condom with sperm on the outside only. Blond hair snagged to the phone, what phone ? Take your pick. 3 sets of DNA on body, 3rd set of no interest to RTP. Many more.

If swiss cheese had this many holes, there would be no cheese.

I think the condom is a completely irrelevant red herring. Apparently it had a drop of Hannah's blood on the outside which, if true, just means it was laying around at the murder scene.

https://crimesontheblog.wordpress.com/category/koh-tao-sept-2014/the-players-more/crime-scene/

Condom found

• initially said to contain victim HWs DNA on the outside

• no other DNA (inside)

• re-enactment: it is considered unrelated to the crime

• only blood drop of victim HW was found on the condom

I agree, the condom is probably a red-herring, as is the cig butt. It's a party beach, for kryssake. backpackers have probably been going to those rocks on the beach for many years, perhaps decades. That's why investigators should reconstruct the trends on that beach, involving the nearby bars and which guys are known to take girls down there. I'm not saying it's bad for guys to seduce chicks (if there's no harm done), but rather: setting precedent with 'persons of interest' would be a big step in the direction of determining who's involved with the crime.

If there were a tramp at the end of your street, and every time any one of a group of young girls walked by him, alone, she got red-faced, angry and/or offended - you might assume something was weird. You might want to know what the tramp was saying/doing. Using that scenario, Thai cops wouldn't care. They might say, "Well, you young girls are pretty, and you dress scantilly and smell so seductive, so why be surprised if a strange man says something rude, or touches you in places you shouldn't be touched."

I am not convinced about the beach party,

From what I understand the beach is quite narrow , The tide due in around 2:30, the accused went swimming around 2:15

Where exactly was the condom found, would it have come into contact with water, dont forgot the Crime scene photos show David almost submerged under water, there is also a report (although I cant find it again) that stated the dna in the condom was to contaminated to obtain a sample.

One of the cigarette buts has muang muang dna, why did the forensic RTP make a mention that this was found at the crime scene if it was not important to the case, but omit the but with a lipstick mark

[Neeranam]

Fresh milk is what all my Thai friends say about this case.

Obviously he was involved. Any rational person can see that. But he is protected, so he is protected.

Well surely the money donated would be better spent doing things the Thai way and taking fresh milk 'out' vigilante style.

[rockingrobin]

Here are some articles about the condom

http://thainews.prd.go.th/centerweb/newsen/NewsDetail?NT01_NewsID=WNSOC5710080010001

No dna on hoe and condom both contaminated and washed by seawater Pol Maj Gen Suwat

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11147921/Amnesty-urges-investigation-into-torture-of-Thai-island-murder-suspects.html

“What happened to the initial forensic findings which showed rape had not occurred? Why was the used condom at the crime scene not sent for tests? Why was the son of the village headman not DNA tested? And what happened to one of the CCTV clips showing a suspect which was allegedly cut for two minutes?”

BP 8/10/2014

Dna not found on hoe or condom because probably washed out by sea water or other contamination

This is the first time I have read doubts about the condom being sent for testing

[rockingrobin]

One of the two men released last night, who reporters did not identify, said he was unable to contact his son and did not know if he had a hand in the killings.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-free-bar-owners-and-look-for-ex-village-hea-30243997.html

[boomerangutang]

One of the two men released last night, who reporters did not identify, said he was unable to contact his son and did not know if he had a hand in the killings.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-free-bar-owners-and-look-for-ex-village-hea-30243997.html

Thanks for reminding us about that news article in the Nation. that entire article should be read by each of the RTP echoers.

One of the accompanying photos shows a very clear footprint in the sand. You can call me a racist for saying this, but it's an Asian foot. It has flared-out toes and a 'wideness' particular to Asians'. That footprint should be compared to the suspects in jail and those who were initially (and should still be) suspects. A matching footprint is not, in itself, proof of guilt, but it can be implicating. If, for example, it matches Nomsod's left foot, then......

[AGareth2]

One of the two men released last night, who reporters did not identify, said he was unable to contact his son and did not know if he had a hand in the killings.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-free-bar-owners-and-look-for-ex-village-hea-30243997.html

Thanks for reminding us about that news article in the Nation. that entire article should be read by each of the RTP echoers.

One of the accompanying photos shows a very clear footprint in the sand. You can call me a racist for saying this, but it's an Asian foot. It has flared-out toes and a 'wideness' particular to Asians'. That footprint should be compared to the suspects in jail and those who were initially (and should still be) suspects. A matching footprint is not, in itself, proof of guilt, but it can be implicating. If, for example, it matches Nomsod's left foot, then......

don't want to call you a racist but my feet are like that

[IslandLover]

rockingrobin, on 16 Feb 2015 - 17:47, said:

One of the two men released last night, who reporters did not identify, said he was unable to contact his son and did not know if he had a hand in the killings.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-free-bar-owners-and-look-for-ex-village-hea-30243997.html

Interesting that this report says an altercation happened at the Intouch bar, rather than at the AC bar as claimed in most other reports.

The chief investigator was speaking after police had summoned the owner of the Intouch Bar for questioning after investigators discovered that both victims had visited the bar and had had an altercation before they were found dead.

So, is this true or not? The Intouch guesthouse complex is certainly closest to the crime scene (apart from the Ocean View guesthouse where David and Hannah were actually staying) and is owned by Mon, although he apparently also manages the AC bar. It is hard to keep up with all these differences in reporting.

[IslandLover]

AGareth2, on 17 Feb 2015 - 03:20, said:AGareth2, on 17 Feb 2015 - 03:20, said:

boomerangutang, on 17 Feb 2015 - 02:43, said:boomerangutang, on 17 Feb 2015 - 02:43, said:

rockingrobin, on 16 Feb 2015 - 17:47, said:rockingrobin, on 16 Feb 2015 - 17:47, said:

One of the two men released last night, who reporters did not identify, said he was unable to contact his son and did not know if he had a hand in the killings.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-free-bar-owners-and-look-for-ex-village-hea-30243997.html

Thanks for reminding us about that news article in the Nation. that entire article should be read by each of the RTP echoers.

One of the accompanying photos shows a very clear footprint in the sand. You can call me a racist for saying this, but it's an Asian foot. It has flared-out toes and a 'wideness' particular to Asians'. That footprint should be compared to the suspects in jail and those who were initially (and should still be) suspects. A matching footprint is not, in itself, proof of guilt, but it can be implicating. If, for example, it matches Nomsod's left foot, then......

don't want to call you a racist but my feet are like that

Reports said the footprint was a European size 40, which is a U.K. size 6-1/2 - so rather small for a western male. Much more likely to be Asian.

Edited February 17, 2015 by IslandLover

[PaPiPuPePo]

One of the two men released last night, who reporters did not identify, said he was unable to contact his son and did not know if he had a hand in the killings.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-free-bar-owners-and-look-for-ex-village-hea-30243997.html

Thanks for reminding us about that news article in the Nation. that entire article should be read by each of the RTP echoers.

One of the accompanying photos shows a very clear footprint in the sand. You can call me a racist for saying this, but it's an Asian foot. It has flared-out toes and a 'wideness' particular to Asians'. That footprint should be compared to the suspects in jail and those who were initially (and should still be) suspects. A matching footprint is not, in itself, proof of guilt, but it can be implicating. If, for example, it matches Nomsod's left foot, then......

don't want to call you a racist but my feet are like that

Yes it's not a matter of race but boomerangutang also has a point, the splayed toes is from wearing sandals all the time. I've seen the change in my own feet numerous times after going weeks or longer without wearing shoes.

[stephen terry]

Seems like the prosecution is calling upon 65 witnesses to testify against the suspects, so why didn't these witnesses do so the day following the murders? Load of codswallop, but the prosecution is determined to nail the B2. Hopefully, the defence have both Myanmar and UK witnesses to testify that would clear the B2.

Anyway, it's going to be a long, long trial that's bound to go all the way to the supreme court on appeal.

[boomerangutang]

One of the two men released last night, who reporters did not identify, said he was unable to contact his son and did not know if he had a hand in the killings.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-free-bar-owners-and-look-for-ex-village-hea-30243997.html

Thanks for reminding us about that news article in the Nation. that entire article should be read by each of the RTP echoers.

One of the accompanying photos shows a very clear footprint in the sand. You can call me a racist for saying this, but it's an Asian foot. It has flared-out toes and a 'wideness' particular to Asians'. That footprint should be compared to the suspects in jail and those who were initially (and should still be) suspects. A matching footprint is not, in itself, proof of guilt, but it can be implicating. If, for example, it matches Nomsod's left foot, then......

don't want to call you a racist but my feet are like that

Are you Asian or part Asian? Did you look closely at the photo of the footprint?

ok, my assumptions and gut feelings don't mean a hill of beach sand, but the footprint(s) could be indicative of who was farting around there, that morning.

I've seen hundreds of Asian feet and thousands of farang feet, and Asian feet almost always have that subtle difference; toes splayed out, and feet more compact, as compared to farang feet (and blacks) which are narrower in proportion. None of that is significant, unless investigators take footprints from 'persons of interest' and compare them minutely with the footprint shown in the photo (and other footprints). It could be the 'smoking gun' which shows Nomsod was on the beach that morning. A matching footprint doesn't have as much significance for any other person, because Nomsod is the only 'person of interest' who says he was not on that beach that morning.

More than a few serious crimes in farang lands have been solved - using footprints. Thai investigators need to learn more tricks of the trade.

Also (and I've mentioned this before) a few (not a mob of) RTP should have all the 'persons of interest' recreate, individually, the hurried walk shown on the CCTV - using same camera, same angle, same exact lighting, same type of baggy white shorts. Again, it's something RTP won't do, because they A. don't want to do any real investigation B. they're shielding the Headman's people, and C. They're framing the Burmese.

[greenchair]

The footprint is a joke.

Usually there is a cast made of the print. Then people's feet are compared to the cast.

But oh no. Dozens of people stood in the prints in the sand to see if they fit.

Who knows if it was measured properly before they stood in it.

[PaPiPuPePo]

Are you Asian or part Asian? Did you look closely at the photo of the footprint?

I've seen hundreds of Asian feet and thousands of farang feet, and Asian feet almost always have that subtle difference; toes splayed out, and feet more compact, as compared to farang feet (and blacks) which are narrower in proportion.

More than a few serious crimes in farang lands have been solved - using footprints. Thai investigators need to learn more tricks of the trade.

Also (and I've mentioned this before) a few (not a mob of) RTP should have all the 'persons of interest' recreate, individually, the hurried walk shown on the CCTV - using same camera, same angle, same exact lighting, same type of baggy white shorts.

Good points re the foot shape, there could indeed be those other differences as well.

I'd wondered about whether there were good casts made of any footprints. What's posted just above about the footprints being used for people to step in...incredible. So were casts made beforehand, or only photos? I expect the latter.

Edited February 17, 2015 by PaPiPuPePo

[AGareth2]

One of the two men released last night, who reporters did not identify, said he was unable to contact his son and did not know if he had a hand in the killings.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-free-bar-owners-and-look-for-ex-village-hea-30243997.html

Thanks for reminding us about that news article in the Nation. that entire article should be read by each of the RTP echoers.

One of the accompanying photos shows a very clear footprint in the sand. You can call me a racist for saying this, but it's an Asian foot. It has flared-out toes and a 'wideness' particular to Asians'. That footprint should be compared to the suspects in jail and those who were initially (and should still be) suspects. A matching footprint is not, in itself, proof of guilt, but it can be implicating. If, for example, it matches Nomsod's left foot, then......

don't want to call you a racist but my feet are like that

Are you Asian or part Asian? Did you look closely at the photo of the footprint?

ok, my assumptions and gut feelings don't mean a hill of beach sand, but the footprint(s) could be indicative of who was farting around there, that morning.

I've seen hundreds of Asian feet and thousands of farang feet, and Asian feet almost always have that subtle difference; toes splayed out, and feet more compact, as compared to farang feet (and blacks) which are narrower in proportion. None of that is significant, unless investigators take footprints from 'persons of interest' and compare them minutely with the footprint shown in the photo (and other footprints). It could be the 'smoking gun' which shows Nomsod was on the beach that morning. A matching footprint doesn't have as much significance for any other person, because Nomsod is the only 'person of interest' who says he was not on that beach that morning.

More than a few serious crimes in farang lands have been solved - using footprints. Thai investigators need to learn more tricks of the trade.

Also (and I've mentioned this before) a few (not a mob of) RTP should have all the 'persons of interest' recreate, individually, the hurried walk shown on the CCTV - using same camera, same angle, same exact lighting, same type of baggy white shorts. Again, it's something RTP won't do, because they A. don't want to do any real investigation B. they're shielding the Headman's people, and C. They're framing the Burmese.

lol I'm a desendant of the people of Deira