Lots and lots of police checkpoints

[CMKiwi]

Was in town last night celebrating the GFs birthday. Had a great night but was surprised that all the places in Zoe in Yellow (Or at least 90%) closed their doors at 1230 sharp. No police came by and it appears its going to take some time before closing times start to slide again.

From Zoe in Yellow we went around to Tawan Dang but that too was in the process of closing, Saw some very drunk Thais trying to ride their scooters away. After one boy crashed, his girlfriend on the back was abusing the hell out of him...... she decided to take over the reigns (so to speak) revved the heck out of the bike and crashed into the kerb which resulted in her getting thrown from the bike. Is this a case of the blind leading the blind? Of just dumb and dumber? It was quite funny to watch, a bit like keystone cops (For those that remember tem you"ll know what I mean) Fortunately the motorbike was worse off than the 2 drunken youths but they still managed to pick it up and drive away. No one bothered to stop them and as a falang I sure as hell wasnt going to get tied up in a quarrel between Thais. I would think they will both have very sore heads, and bodies today.

My GF is nursing a sore head (hangover) this morning and I think she will find it extra difficult when she gets out of the airconditioned room and into todays heat swell. Looks to be another scorcher, 11am and 31 degrees already. Time to head to a swimming pool methinks

Have a great day everyone...

[heybruce]

Only the serious crackdowns require Tawan Daeng to close. I'm curious, does this one apply to Spice as well? Not that I'd go there, there are some things worse than having an early evening.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Yes, applies to Spicy too.

[WorkingTourist]

[…] places like Spice, Infinity, Tawan Daeng and others that routinely stay open late are bars, they are bars that flaunt the law with impunity, and they are very successful bars because of this. Do you really think the police haven't noticed them?

It sounds like now they have

Anyway, I only commented because I found your comment that the closing time enforcement “simply cost people in the bar business money and make people's evening plans uncertain.”.

As someone who has twice lived near loud bars, I was very thankful that these bars respected the 12 o’clock closing time, so the enforcement of bar closing times does affect more than just those directly involved in the bars.

And fully agree with you that the law should be the same for everyone. I know nothing about when which bars (should) close, and thought that the bars that were open late operated under another license.

[mascarabertha]

[…] places like Spice, Infinity, Tawan Daeng and others that routinely stay open late are bars, they are bars that flaunt the law with impunity, and they are very successful bars because of this. Do you really think the police haven't noticed them?

It sounds like now they have

Anyway, I only commented because I found your comment that the closing time enforcement “simply cost people in the bar business money and make people's evening plans uncertain.”.

As someone who has twice lived near loud bars, I was very thankful that these bars respected the 12 o’clock closing time, so the enforcement of bar closing times does affect more than just those directly involved in the bars.

And fully agree with you that the law should be the same for everyone. I know nothing about when which bars (should) close, and thought that the bars that were open late operated under another license.

do you have a learning curve? why would you choose to live near noisy bars not once but twice. let's guess where your next place will be. next to the runway at the airport

[WorkingTourist]

As someone who has twice lived near loud bars, I was very thankful that these bars respected the 12 oclock closing time

do you have a learning curve? why would you choose to live near noisy bars not once but twice. let's guess where your next place will be. next to the runway at the airport

I did not choose to live near loud bars, I picked a place and later learned that loud bars could be heard from the place I had picked.

The second place was The Bliss in Huaw Kaew Soi 2, to this date I still dont know where the music came from. You couldnt hear it when walking around the building or the block, but from the 7th floor (facing Doi Suthep and a single window facing North) it was very audible (to the degree where if I didnt have my own music playing, it was a bit irritating).

I am still very curious about what bar generated the music, if anyone has any theories.

[heybruce]

[…] places like Spice, Infinity, Tawan Daeng and others that routinely stay open late are bars, they are bars that flaunt the law with impunity, and they are very successful bars because of this. Do you really think the police haven't noticed them?

It sounds like now they have

Anyway, I only commented because I found your comment that the closing time enforcement “simply cost people in the bar business money and make people's evening plans uncertain.”.

As someone who has twice lived near loud bars, I was very thankful that these bars respected the 12 o’clock closing time, so the enforcement of bar closing times does affect more than just those directly involved in the bars.

And fully agree with you that the law should be the same for everyone. I know nothing about when which bars (should) close, and thought that the bars that were open late operated under another license.

The police have long noticed Spice, Infinity and Tawan Daeng, and it is widely assumed they have profited handsomely from them. It is also widely assumed that once the outside pressure driving the latest crackdown is over that these and a few other bars will be allowed to stay open as late as they like, and bars not in favor with the police will have to close per the law, if not earlier.

As to bars that stay open late because they are operating "under another license", perhaps. However one has to wonder why a few bars are allowed these flexible closing time licenses and most bars aren't. Once again, one suspects corruption. I'm not sure, but I believe the police have a significant say in the granting of licenses to sell alcohol.

I don't object to rational laws and regulations that are consistently enforced, I object to laws and regulations that are opportunistically enforced. That is not rule of law, that is abuse of law. If Tawan Daeng and Spice do have licenses allowing them to stay open late, why are then now closing early? Either they were staying open illegally before, or they are being illegally forced to close early now.

BTW, if living somewhere quiet is important to you, always check out potential residences after midnight on the weekends. It's a good idea to talk to current residents as well, and remember that one side of a building can be significantly noisier than others. It's difficult to find a consistently quiet place in Chiang Mai.

[JulieM]

I knew a guy staying at The Bliss. He had music/noise issues with the rooftop bars on top of Maya. He moved out.

[MisterTee]

I knew a guy staying at The Bliss. He had music/noise issues with the rooftop bars on top of Maya. He moved out.

That's the only thing you can do... you're not going to quiet any of them down.

Before moving in be sure the place is far from any entertainment venues.

[WorkingTourist]

I knew a guy staying at The Bliss. He had music/noise issues with the rooftop bars on top of Maya. He moved out.

For the records, I stayed there before Maya was completed (and also faced the other way).

My best theory was The Harbour, but visiting this strip mall/lifestyle center in the evening, I didn’t hear any loud music.

[CNXBKKMAN]

Yeah, well, if "dysfunctional" means a situation wherein such innocent "loons," as YOU put it are mowed down by a motorist, then life here, as you apparently love it, is not so "Lovable." Or would it be anywhere. Crackdown on cyclists! Pretty outrageous comment, Winnie!

I have to agree, these cyclists made a determined effort to ride on some of the few decent roads before rush hour and after (they thought) the drunks were done driving. They were also traveling in a group and, if I remember correctly, wearing reflective clothing. They were doing everything they could to cycle safely. It's pretty cold to blame the victims.

They would have been in the motorcycle lane at the side of the road. They were experienced thai cyclists and wouldnt be riding in the middle of a fast road at any time of the day except perhaps if there was a grid lock type traffic jam.

I would bet money on them having very bright flashing LED lights. Blinding bright ones cost as little as 200 baht nowadays and the batteries last a long time. I doubt they did anything wrong . They were 45 - 65 year olds, not boy racers, normal Thais who get up at the crack of dawn and start doing stuff.

[PlanetX]

The thais have long accepted their "road culture" and now they suddenly expect it to change because they want to ride their bicycles?

The roads are EXTREMELY unsafe - you take your chances with everything you do on the roads

Bicycles add a completely new element into an already dangerous cocktail of suddenly stopping songtaows, inexperienced drivers, reckless motorcycles, crazy vans, sleep deprived bus drivers, red light runners, etc etc etc

The cyclists weren't doing anything wrong but they did choose to ride on a busy Thai road and it led to carnage - until the entire road culture is changed this will continue to happen and people that ride bicycles on the busy roads should expect that the odds are not in their favor

[WinnieTheKhwai]

As someone who has twice lived near loud bars, I was very thankful that these bars respected the 12 oclock closing time

do you have a learning curve? why would you choose to live near noisy bars not once but twice. let's guess where your next place will be. next to the runway at the airport

I did not choose to live near loud bars, I picked a place and later learned that loud bars could be heard from the place I had picked.

Right, but the educational accomplishment that Bertha is referring to is to camp out on a Saturday night for a couple hours at your chosen residence before buying or renting. (And not just nighttime but other times too.. Schools, temples, mosques.. they all produce noise at awkward times.)

I did that before recommending to my wife to buy a place, knowing that there is a large karaoke club not far away.

[WorkingTourist]

Right, but the educational accomplishment that Bertha is referring to is to camp out on a Saturday night for a couple hours at your chosen residence before buying or renting. (And not just nighttime but other times too.. Schools, temples, mosques.. they all produce noise at awkward times.)

I think Bertha was just trying to be clever.

As you say, you need to camp out there pretty much at all hours of the day and probably different days of the week, because nighttime bars are not the only noise pollutant in Chiang Mai (the last place I stayed, it was the mosque calling to prayer before sunrise and around midday that was the pollutant, plus the prerecorded speech playing for hours on select (holy?) days from a nearby church or temple).

You also need to stay in the actual unit you’re planning to rent; the first place I had the bar noise, we switched from the unit facing the pool, which had no noise but felt less private (the owner had told us this unit was just temporary). The second unit had the audible bars, though it was a short-term rental, the bars stopped at midnight, and we were out most nights ourself, so we weren’t really bothered by it.

As for the bar noise at The Bliss, you had to be above a certain floor, and it seemed to only be one corner of the building being affected, furthermore, the bar that was generating the noise did take the occasional week or two off, so even with your suggested due diligence, we could easily have missed it.

We could also have asked to change room, but the daytime view of Doi Suthep and the condo’s layout, made up for the nighttime bar noise. Only the days where it continued till after midnight, was it a bother, but those days were fortunately rare.

I did that before recommending to my wife to buy a place, knowing that there is a large karaoke club not far away.

Yes, before buying, I would do everything in my power to ensure there is no noise, though conditions can change…

But I don’t regret not spending more time investigating noise levels for my past short-term rents, it was hard enough finding units I actually liked.

[Mapguy]

Sorry, I believe this a preposterously poor rationalization that leans very closely toward blaming the victim. And Winnie has "liked" it!!! A humble apology for his original post about the riders would have been better suited! Yes, ANY roads can be dangerous, especially because of drunks or party boys (read TV Chiang Mai closely enough over time and you know who they are, right Winnie?) So the bikers should stay home and pedal stationary bikes! More generally, it is absolutely clear that Thai enforcement and penalties for drunk driving are appallingly lenient even when people are killed! Any pissing and moaning onTV Chiang Mai about closing hours and about alcohol limits and similar blah blah blah is for adolescents!

[Mapguy]

Seems I missposted. The above was meant as a response to #105 above. Apologies!

[FolkGuitar]

The roads are EXTREMELY unsafe - you take your chances with everything you do on the roads

That's very true. But it does not address the problem of drunk drivers killing people.

The riders weren't doing anything other than using the road, just as cars do, just as motobikes do, just as songtaews and tuk-tuks do. The fact that they were on bicycles only increased the potential for bodily damage during a collision. The problem is still the collision and the irresponsible use of alcohol that caused it.

Irresponsible use of alcohol. Nothing wrong with alcohol. The problem is in the behavior associated with it.

The subject of this thread is 'lots of police checkpoints.' Perhaps it should be 'Not Enough Police Checkpoints.' Let's have them in every bar area every night. Let's get the drunks off the streets. This won't stop the problem with sudden stops by songtaews or Tuk-tuks, nor the crazies on motorbikes, but it sure as hell will make a significant dent in the number of road fatalities.

Every night in every entertainment area. Total police presence checking for people who are driving under the influence. I'm not suggesting people not drink. I'm suggesting that if they drink they don't drive and endanger others. Responsible drinking. Not drunk driving.

[bristolgeoff]

if you drink and drive home use the back soi,s as much as possible.don,t even go anywhere near thapai gate.they will get you

[grin]

Regarding noise you can try your best to live in an area that is quiet. But no matter how much checking you do, like someone mentioned previously, conditions can change at any time. Here in Padaet on occasion we hear dogs barking but it is quieter than any place I have lived in Thailand, city-wise that is.

The exception was that for several months starting about 6 months ago extremely loud music could be heard until about 1 AM from everywhere in this neighborhood and it was hard to even tell what direction it was coming from. We suspected a new Karaoke bar on Mahidol Road. But one day the noise just disappeared as quickly as it showed up.

When I was younger I lived for a while in the middle of nowhere in Sakon Nakhon province. We could hear loud punk rock all hours of the day and had no idea where it was coming from. However, it didn't bother me because it was a great selection of old school punk like the Clash, Ramones, Sex Pistols, Green Day, Op Ivy, DOA, Dead Kennedys, TSOL, Avengers, X, Black Flag, Sonic Youth, Social Distortion, Bad Brains, etc. For me the justaposition was incredible. This was the last thing I ever expected to hear in Sakon Nakhon.

Grin

[FolkGuitar]

if you drink and drive home use the back soi,s as much as possible.don,t even go anywhere near thapai gate.they will get you

Fortunately, I've been seeing checkpoints on the back sois in Santitham lately. Let's hope they set them up in other areas as well.

[heybruce]

if you drink and drive home use the back soi,s as much as possible.don,t even go anywhere near thapai gate.they will get you

Good idea, get the blurry-eyed, uncoordinated drunks on the narrow, dark sois where people are trying to walk. Let's spread the drunk driver hazard to all the streets.

[heybruce]

The roads are EXTREMELY unsafe - you take your chances with everything you do on the roads

That's very true. But it does not address the problem of drunk drivers killing people.

The riders weren't doing anything other than using the road, just as cars do, just as motobikes do, just as songtaews and tuk-tuks do. The fact that they were on bicycles only increased the potential for bodily damage during a collision. The problem is still the collision and the irresponsible use of alcohol that caused it.

Irresponsible use of alcohol. Nothing wrong with alcohol. The problem is in the behavior associated with it.

The subject of this thread is 'lots of police checkpoints.' Perhaps it should be 'Not Enough Police Checkpoints.' Let's have them in every bar area every night. Let's get the drunks off the streets. This won't stop the problem with sudden stops by songtaews or Tuk-tuks, nor the crazies on motorbikes, but it sure as hell will make a significant dent in the number of road fatalities.

Every night in every entertainment area. Total police presence checking for people who are driving under the influence. I'm not suggesting people not drink. I'm suggesting that if they drink they don't drive and endanger others. Responsible drinking. Not drunk driving.

I occasionally like to stay out after midnight, but I don't drive after drinking and I try to avoid late night driving due to the number of drunks on the road. I'd be happy to see later closing times and more police checkpoints.

I know some people miss the "good old days" when drunk driving was widespread and widely accepted. Hopefully Thailand is beginning to outgrow that attitude.

[FolkGuitar]

The roads are EXTREMELY unsafe - you take your chances with everything you do on the roads

That's very true. But it does not address the problem of drunk drivers killing people.

The riders weren't doing anything other than using the road, just as cars do, just as motobikes do, just as songtaews and tuk-tuks do. The fact that they were on bicycles only increased the potential for bodily damage during a collision. The problem is still the collision and the irresponsible use of alcohol that caused it.

Irresponsible use of alcohol. Nothing wrong with alcohol. The problem is in the behavior associated with it.

The subject of this thread is 'lots of police checkpoints.' Perhaps it should be 'Not Enough Police Checkpoints.' Let's have them in every bar area every night. Let's get the drunks off the streets. This won't stop the problem with sudden stops by songtaews or Tuk-tuks, nor the crazies on motorbikes, but it sure as hell will make a significant dent in the number of road fatalities.

Every night in every entertainment area. Total police presence checking for people who are driving under the influence. I'm not suggesting people not drink. I'm suggesting that if they drink they don't drive and endanger others. Responsible drinking. Not drunk driving.

I occasionally like to stay out after midnight, but I don't drive after drinking and I try to avoid late night driving due to the number of drunks on the road. I'd be happy to see later closing times and more police checkpoints.

I know some people miss the "good old days" when drunk driving was widespread and widely accepted. Hopefully Thailand is beginning to outgrow that attitude.

I see no advantage, safety wise, to closing the bars early. People just throw their drinks down their necks faster to make up for it. I DO see an advantage to more police checkpoints, but it would be better still if they actually made the penalty for drunk driving commensurate with the dangers. Some countries are confiscating the vehicles of drunk drivers. Now THAT would be a deterrent!

[CNXBKKMAN]

Confiscating the vehicle for a week, a month, 3 months whatever is a good idea. Also during this time the vehicle is parked out in the baking sun open to the elements. I wouldn't be surprised if this had a shock effect and a big drop in drink drivers after people start hearing of friends losing their cars and motorbikes. Sounds like a great idea.