Pope on Charlie Hebdo: There are limits to free expression

[jpinx]

ntended to be provocative, but just to demonstrate how perceptions are culturally so different, like mixing oil and water.

In Turkey if you say that the Armenian Genocide took place, no one will touch you. Its not a crime. And regarding the existence of mohammed, its not what you think, its what they think about it. They beleive he existed, and love him very much. Youre playing with the feeligs of his supporters when you publish offensive cartoons about him.

*posts deleted to allow response*

Turkey is hardly a bastion of the freedom of speech.

As for the airing Armenian Genocide in Turkey, the rather well cases of Orhan Pamuk and the late Hrant Dink may paint a different picture. My personal experience is that, in general, it is a topic best not brought up. While it does not constitute a legal offense as such, it certainly falls under the notorious Article 301.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orhan_Pamuk#Trial

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrant_Dink#Prosecution_for_denigrating_Turkishness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_301_%28Turkish_Penal_Code%29

Every country got its own rules regarding what is acceptable and what is not. It certainly appears that compared with other groups Muslims have trouble with this concept, and feel it is their right to violently enforce their views.

No single thing justifies another, but it's worth bearing in mind that the USA has no trouble imposing their version of "law" (mostly fiscal and security) on people all over the world.

Christianity still sends missionaries to the poor and most susceptible people to boost their ranks, instead of just helping without seeking a return.

The USA allows most form of criticism within its borders. Its laws secure the right to do so. This holds true even for cases which annoy many a USA citizen. The USA does not impose these sort of values on other countries. Applying pressure in order to promote fiscal and security interests is pretty much the global norm. Violently attempting to enforce different freedom so speech standards in other countries, less so.

Christianity still sends missionaries abroad. That much is true. While not a believer, I have met enough Christians, who while religiously motivated and funded, carried out their efforts without overtly trying to convert anyone, rather leading by example. Some weren't even doing as much. Guess there is quite a range of missionary work and religious activities. Missionaries and their efforts are not always well received, not is their safety taken for granted. Are missionaries free to roam all the Muslim World without fear? Is this reciprocated by the way their Muslim counterparts are treated in the West?

Try giving christ some serous verbal abuse in the gospel belt and tell me how you get on If you're persistent enough they'll find some law that'll remove you. Legal action concerning "hate-speech" can come in many forms. France is currently working out their formulae.

I referred to the outreach of USA regarding the well-known seizure and forcible transportation of suspects. That was a certain enforcement of laws which did not exit in the country the extraction was done in. If that is the "Global Norm" -- gawd help us

I often see "missionaries" outside BigC etc, trying to engage in conversation with Thais who are too polite to walk away. In Africa the main reason for the recoil from Islam is the "missionary" actions of the majority christian society. I believe Boko Harem was born out of that bad feeling.

No one side has exclusive rights on the truth. The real truth is amongst all of humanity, and until humanity comes together, the real truth will never be known. Religion is the opium of civilisation -- who said that? (or something close)

[Credo]

Try giving christ some serous verbal abuse in the gospel belt and tell me how you get on If you're persistent enough they'll find some law that'll remove you. Legal action concerning "hate-speech" can come in many forms. France is currently working out their formulae.

I referred to the outreach of USA regarding the well-known seizure and forcible transportation of suspects. That was a certain enforcement of laws which did not exit in the country the extraction was done in. If that is the "Global Norm" -- gawd help us

I often see "missionaries" outside BigC etc, trying to engage in conversation with Thais who are too polite to walk away. In Africa the main reason for the recoil from Islam is the "missionary" actions of the majority christian society. I believe Boko Harem was born out of that bad feeling.

No one side has exclusive rights on the truth. The real truth is amongst all of humanity, and until humanity comes together, the real truth will never be known. Religion is the opium of civilisation -- who said that? (or something close)

Interesting point, but you can give Christ serious verbal abuse in the Bible belt and if anyone does anything that is against the law, they will be prosecuted and end up in jail.

It's also interesting that you suggest that Boko Harem exists because of missionaries. Boko Harem seems to be doing a pretty good job of converting or killing infidels. But again we hear that it is somehow our fault that they are barbaric terrorists.

[ravip]

He's away with the fairies with this one - inside priest/rabbi/iman blah blah there's a secret censor. Eff them all - we've got priests gangbanging little boys, rabbis promoting the slaughter of children, and imams calling for the death of all infidels. I say cut out all their tongues and the world would be better place.

On the other hand, the world could keep moaning for decades.

[jpinx]

Try giving christ some serous verbal abuse in the gospel belt and tell me how you get on If you're persistent enough they'll find some law that'll remove you. Legal action concerning "hate-speech" can come in many forms. France is currently working out their formulae.

I referred to the outreach of USA regarding the well-known seizure and forcible transportation of suspects. That was a certain enforcement of laws which did not exit in the country the extraction was done in. If that is the "Global Norm" -- gawd help us

I often see "missionaries" outside BigC etc, trying to engage in conversation with Thais who are too polite to walk away. In Africa the main reason for the recoil from Islam is the "missionary" actions of the majority christian society. I believe Boko Harem was born out of that bad feeling.

No one side has exclusive rights on the truth. The real truth is amongst all of humanity, and until humanity comes together, the real truth will never be known. Religion is the opium of civilisation -- who said that? (or something close)

Interesting point, but you can give Christ serious verbal abuse in the Bible belt and if anyone does anything that is against the law, they will be prosecuted and end up in jail.

It's also interesting that you suggest that Boko Harem exists because of missionaries. Boko Harem seems to be doing a pretty good job of converting or killing infidels. But again we hear that it is somehow our fault that they are barbaric terrorists.

"Against the law" must be the most mis-used expression around

I suggested that Boko Harem was born out of a retaliation. There's plenty of examples of "natives" rebelling against missionaries of all flavours.

The Pope is only one church leader -- when he actually sits down with the top people of Islam, Buddhism, and other faiths it'll be a special day. The UN manages to get some diametrically opposite political people into the same room. Why can the same not happen for religions ?

[sirineou]

Try giving christ some serous verbal abuse in the gospel belt and tell me how you get on If you're persistent enough they'll find some law that'll remove you. Legal action concerning "hate-speech" can come in many forms. France is currently working out their formulae.

I referred to the outreach of USA regarding the well-known seizure and forcible transportation of suspects. That was a certain enforcement of laws which did not exit in the country the extraction was done in. If that is the "Global Norm" -- gawd help us

I often see "missionaries" outside BigC etc, trying to engage in conversation with Thais who are too polite to walk away. In Africa the main reason for the recoil from Islam is the "missionary" actions of the majority christian society. I believe Boko Harem was born out of that bad feeling.

No one side has exclusive rights on the truth. The real truth is amongst all of humanity, and until humanity comes together, the real truth will never be known. Religion is the opium of civilisation -- who said that? (or something close)

Interesting point, but you can give Christ serious verbal abuse in the Bible belt and if anyone does anything that is against the law, they will be prosecuted and end up in jail.

It's also interesting that you suggest that Boko Harem exists because of missionaries. Boko Harem seems to be doing a pretty good job of converting or killing infidels. But again we hear that it is somehow our fault that they are barbaric terrorists.

this is true in most place in the world, Unfortunate some places in the world have being kept 100 years in the past ,

through western interference I might add,

and their laws,governing systems, and social attitudes reflect that.

Now we are suffering what ir termed "Blow-back" .

We bomb them in to the stone age, and we are surprised when we get stone age results from them.

[Morch]

Try giving christ some serous verbal abuse in the gospel belt and tell me how you get on If you're persistent enough they'll find some law that'll remove you. Legal action concerning "hate-speech" can come in many forms. France is currently working out their formulae.

I referred to the outreach of USA regarding the well-known seizure and forcible transportation of suspects. That was a certain enforcement of laws which did not exit in the country the extraction was done in. If that is the "Global Norm" -- gawd help us

I often see "missionaries" outside BigC etc, trying to engage in conversation with Thais who are too polite to walk away. In Africa the main reason for the recoil from Islam is the "missionary" actions of the majority christian society. I believe Boko Harem was born out of that bad feeling.

No one side has exclusive rights on the truth. The real truth is amongst all of humanity, and until humanity comes together, the real truth will never be known. Religion is the opium of civilisation -- who said that? (or something close)

Interesting point, but you can give Christ serious verbal abuse in the Bible belt and if anyone does anything that is against the law, they will be prosecuted and end up in jail.

It's also interesting that you suggest that Boko Harem exists because of missionaries. Boko Harem seems to be doing a pretty good job of converting or killing infidels. But again we hear that it is somehow our fault that they are barbaric terrorists.

this is true in most place in the world, Unfortunate some places in the world have being kept 100 years in the past ,

through western interference I might add,

and their laws,governing systems, and social attitudes reflect that.

Now we are suffering what ir termed "Blow-back" .

We bomb them in to the stone age, and we are surprised when we get stone age results from them.

Left to their devices, these places would have turned into pluralistic peaceful societies?

[jpinx]

Try giving christ some serous verbal abuse in the gospel belt and tell me how you get on If you're persistent enough they'll find some law that'll remove you. Legal action concerning "hate-speech" can come in many forms. France is currently working out their formulae.

I referred to the outreach of USA regarding the well-known seizure and forcible transportation of suspects. That was a certain enforcement of laws which did not exit in the country the extraction was done in. If that is the "Global Norm" -- gawd help us

I often see "missionaries" outside BigC etc, trying to engage in conversation with Thais who are too polite to walk away. In Africa the main reason for the recoil from Islam is the "missionary" actions of the majority christian society. I believe Boko Harem was born out of that bad feeling.

No one side has exclusive rights on the truth. The real truth is amongst all of humanity, and until humanity comes together, the real truth will never be known. Religion is the opium of civilisation -- who said that? (or something close)

Interesting point, but you can give Christ serious verbal abuse in the Bible belt and if anyone does anything that is against the law, they will be prosecuted and end up in jail.

It's also interesting that you suggest that Boko Harem exists because of missionaries. Boko Harem seems to be doing a pretty good job of converting or killing infidels. But again we hear that it is somehow our fault that they are barbaric terrorists.

this is true in most place in the world, Unfortunate some places in the world have being kept 100 years in the past ,

through western interference I might add,

and their laws,governing systems, and social attitudes reflect that.

Now we are suffering what ir termed "Blow-back" .

We bomb them in to the stone age, and we are surprised when we get stone age results from them.

Left to their devices, these places would have turned into pluralistic peaceful societies?

That'll never happen -- the "west" is an inveterate fiddler in things they should leave alone

[Credo]

Actually there was a conference quite a few years back and some major religious leaders were present. I believe it was a UN conference. The Muslims and the Catholics managed to get together to stop any attempts and promoting birth control.

[sirineou]

Try giving christ some serous verbal abuse in the gospel belt and tell me how you get on If you're persistent enough they'll find some law that'll remove you. Legal action concerning "hate-speech" can come in many forms. France is currently working out their formulae.

I referred to the outreach of USA regarding the well-known seizure and forcible transportation of suspects. That was a certain enforcement of laws which did not exit in the country the extraction was done in. If that is the "Global Norm" -- gawd help us

I often see "missionaries" outside BigC etc, trying to engage in conversation with Thais who are too polite to walk away. In Africa the main reason for the recoil from Islam is the "missionary" actions of the majority christian society. I believe Boko Harem was born out of that bad feeling.

No one side has exclusive rights on the truth. The real truth is amongst all of humanity, and until humanity comes together, the real truth will never be known. Religion is the opium of civilisation -- who said that? (or something close)

Interesting point, but you can give Christ serious verbal abuse in the Bible belt and if anyone does anything that is against the law, they will be prosecuted and end up in jail.

It's also interesting that you suggest that Boko Harem exists because of missionaries. Boko Harem seems to be doing a pretty good job of converting or killing infidels. But again we hear that it is somehow our fault that they are barbaric terrorists.

this is true in most place in the world, Unfortunate some places in the world have being kept 100 years in the past ,

through western interference I might add,

and their laws,governing systems, and social attitudes reflect that.

Now we are suffering what ir termed "Blow-back" .

We bomb them in to the stone age, and we are surprised when we get stone age results from them.

Left to their devices, these places would have turned into pluralistic peaceful societies?

There was a time when Islam was a beacon of learning and intellect in the world while we languished in to the dark ages

"Left to their devices, these places would have turned into pluralistic peaceful societies?"

I guess there is only one way to find out

[Morch]

ntended to be provocative, but just to demonstrate how perceptions are culturally so different, like mixing oil and water.

In Turkey if you say that the Armenian Genocide took place, no one will touch you. Its not a crime. And regarding the existence of mohammed, its not what you think, its what they think about it. They beleive he existed, and love him very much. Youre playing with the feeligs of his supporters when you publish offensive cartoons about him.

*posts deleted to allow response*

Turkey is hardly a bastion of the freedom of speech.

As for the airing Armenian Genocide in Turkey, the rather well cases of Orhan Pamuk and the late Hrant Dink may paint a different picture. My personal experience is that, in general, it is a topic best not brought up. While it does not constitute a legal offense as such, it certainly falls under the notorious Article 301.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orhan_Pamuk#Trial

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrant_Dink#Prosecution_for_denigrating_Turkishness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_301_%28Turkish_Penal_Code%29

Every country got its own rules regarding what is acceptable and what is not. It certainly appears that compared with other groups Muslims have trouble with this concept, and feel it is their right to violently enforce their views.

No single thing justifies another, but it's worth bearing in mind that the USA has no trouble imposing their version of "law" (mostly fiscal and security) on people all over the world.

Christianity still sends missionaries to the poor and most susceptible people to boost their ranks, instead of just helping without seeking a return.

The USA allows most form of criticism within its borders. Its laws secure the right to do so. This holds true even for cases which annoy many a USA citizen. The USA does not impose these sort of values on other countries. Applying pressure in order to promote fiscal and security interests is pretty much the global norm. Violently attempting to enforce different freedom so speech standards in other countries, less so.

Christianity still sends missionaries abroad. That much is true. While not a believer, I have met enough Christians, who while religiously motivated and funded, carried out their efforts without overtly trying to convert anyone, rather leading by example. Some weren't even doing as much. Guess there is quite a range of missionary work and religious activities. Missionaries and their efforts are not always well received, not is their safety taken for granted. Are missionaries free to roam all the Muslim World without fear? Is this reciprocated by the way their Muslim counterparts are treated in the West?

Try giving christ some serous verbal abuse in the gospel belt and tell me how you get on If you're persistent enough they'll find some law that'll remove you. Legal action concerning "hate-speech" can come in many forms. France is currently working out their formulae.

I referred to the outreach of USA regarding the well-known seizure and forcible transportation of suspects. That was a certain enforcement of laws which did not exit in the country the extraction was done in. If that is the "Global Norm" -- gawd help us

I often see "missionaries" outside BigC etc, trying to engage in conversation with Thais who are too polite to walk away. In Africa the main reason for the recoil from Islam is the "missionary" actions of the majority christian society. I believe Boko Harem was born out of that bad feeling.

No one side has exclusive rights on the truth. The real truth is amongst all of humanity, and until humanity comes together, the real truth will never be known. Religion is the opium of civilisation -- who said that? (or something close)

Yeah, the fearsome gospel belt. Where they behead....oh, wait. A bit of proportion would do this argument a whole lot of good.

Seems like the level required to get a harsher reaction from Muslims, even when not on their home "turf" is rather minimal.

Were the USA actions an extension of religious beliefs or moral values, and attempting to enforce these on citizens of another country in their own country?

Them evil BigC missionaries. The Boko Haram as a reaction to missionary actions proposition is rather simplistic and not quite accurate. Goes a wee bit deeper than this, economy, colonialism and dictatorial rule to name some other factors.

Every country may set up its own rules defining the limits (or lack of) of freedom of speech. It is usually accepted that these are to be respected by minorities and outsiders. Muslims seem to have difficulties with the concept when applied to the way Islam is regarded in non-Muslim countries, while applying the very same in their own countries.

[Morch]

Interesting point, but you can give Christ serious verbal abuse in the Bible belt and if anyone does anything that is against the law, they will be prosecuted and end up in jail.

It's also interesting that you suggest that Boko Harem exists because of missionaries. Boko Harem seems to be doing a pretty good job of converting or killing infidels. But again we hear that it is somehow our fault that they are barbaric terrorists.

this is true in most place in the world, Unfortunate some places in the world have being kept 100 years in the past ,

through western interference I might add,

and their laws,governing systems, and social attitudes reflect that.

Now we are suffering what ir termed "Blow-back" .

We bomb them in to the stone age, and we are surprised when we get stone age results from them.

Left to their devices, these places would have turned into pluralistic peaceful societies?

That'll never happen -- the "west" is an inveterate fiddler in things they should leave alone

*posts removed to allow response*

I was not suggesting it would become a reality, but wondering if posters actually believe that had there been no Western interference whatsoever (or at most, minimal interference), Muslim countries (or rather, areas, many of the countries were formed through Western interference) would have developed into pluralistic peaceful societies.

[Morch]

Interesting point, but you can give Christ serious verbal abuse in the Bible belt and if anyone does anything that is against the law, they will be prosecuted and end up in jail.

It's also interesting that you suggest that Boko Harem exists because of missionaries. Boko Harem seems to be doing a pretty good job of converting or killing infidels. But again we hear that it is somehow our fault that they are barbaric terrorists.

this is true in most place in the world, Unfortunate some places in the world have being kept 100 years in the past ,

through western interference I might add,

and their laws,governing systems, and social attitudes reflect that.

Now we are suffering what ir termed "Blow-back" .

We bomb them in to the stone age, and we are surprised when we get stone age results from them.

Left to their devices, these places would have turned into pluralistic peaceful societies?

There was a time when Islam was a beacon of learning and intellect in the world while we languished in to the dark ages

"Left to their devices, these places would have turned into pluralistic peaceful societies?"

I guess there is only one way to find out

*posts removed to allow reply*

That would be the time when the Muslims violently subjugated vast tracts of the then known world?

Much of said learning and intellect were achieved through absorbing ideas from civilizations and nations conquered. Is this learning attributed as directly stemming from Islam?

As stated before, the question was not so much to do with current realities, but with how things would have developed without Western intervention. How would the Muslim world look today sort of thing.

[sirineou]

*posts removed to allow response*

I was not suggesting it would become a reality, but wondering if posters actually believe that had there been no Western interference whatsoever (or at most, minimal interference), Muslim countries (or rather, areas, many of the countries were formed through Western interference) would have developed into pluralistic peaceful societies.

as I said before

we will never know.

But why would one think they will not? is there something with in Islam that precludes this from happening?

They have done it in the past, why could they not do it again?

[Morch]

*posts removed to allow response*

I was not suggesting it would become a reality, but wondering if posters actually believe that had there been no Western interference whatsoever (or at most, minimal interference), Muslim countries (or rather, areas, many of the countries were formed through Western interference) would have developed into pluralistic peaceful societies.

as I said before

we will never know.

But why would one think they will not? is there something with in Islam that precludes this from happening?

They have done it in the past, why could they not do it again?

Because they never were. Dhimmitude is not freedom.

On the other hand, Islam did show quite a skill at worldwide Jihad, why could they not do it again?

[sirineou]

*posts removed to allow response*

I was not suggesting it would become a reality, but wondering if posters actually believe that had there been no Western interference whatsoever (or at most, minimal interference), Muslim countries (or rather, areas, many of the countries were formed through Western interference) would have developed into pluralistic peaceful societies.

as I said before

we will never know.

But why would one think they will not? is there something with in Islam that precludes this from happening?

They have done it in the past, why could they not do it again?

Because they never were. Dhimmitude is not freedom.

On the other hand, Islam did show quite a skill at worldwide Jihad, why could they not do it again?

We cant honestly compare their 13th century development with today's standards

Islams golden age lasted from the 8th century to the mid 13th century and it exhibited the limitations of that era and human development , as we exhibited the limitations of or development at any particular time,

IMO ,in the past 100 years or so, that area of the world has suffered from western interference that has limited their political. social and religious development.

with out that interference it would be anyone's guess, where they would be today

[arjunadawn]

Despite it obviously being wrong to kill over this and that Muslims are not special in any way, shape or form, the pope has a point. This magazine takes the piss and knows how it offends them. Freedom of expression and all that, sure, but having a dig at unhinged people worshiping a dodgy faith in this day & age? Not gonna say you reap what you sew, just that he's thinking along the right lines.

You clearly make a valid point; in fact, it is the only sensible point other than those who trumpet freedom of speech and tyranny be damned! But is it really sensible= this position? When this sensible position of yours is extrapolated out from this singular event and becomes the rule and guide of behavior throughout the western world, what do we really have left? Where does it actually end. Insofar as sleight and offense is a wholly subjective act where is the line then drawn to define the parameters of what is freedom of speech and what is mortal coercion? While an argument can be made that they should have known better and others may act x y z way, what happens when we employ broadly such self policing, or frankly, policing from fear? What we then have is a society that is on the one hand called dhimmitude (servants of Islam) and on the other hand we have a post enlightenment society were fear and subjective individual declarations impugn and compel the majority.

No, under no conditions can this hill be traded in this emerging war. This is land that must be held irrespective of the lives lost. Somethings are worth fighting for. As one might recall this magazine was previously bombed and terrorized. The editor's statement that he would rather "die standing then live kneeling" takes on all the more magnificence of love and the idolization of universal ideas. This man defines for us the noble approach to the quite reprehensible march of evil. I applaud him and I support the act of any man who realizes that "ideas," free minds and worlds, not chains and prisons empower society and make life a legitimate journey.

[Jingthing]

Some very interesting background on HIGHLY ORGANIZED REPRESSION of free expression from the Muslim world directed aggressively at both at Muslims and non-Muslims. If people are hoping that Muslims will heal themselves from the poison of Jihadism, this article reveals even more of the challenges to that:

The official and unofficial channels work in tandem, harassing, threatening and battling introspective Muslims and non-Muslims everywhere. They bank on an important truth: Islam, as practiced from Malaysia to Morocco, is a shame-based, patriarchal culture that values honor and face-saving from the family to the public square. Which is why the bullying often works to silence critics of Islamic extremism.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/meet-the-honor-brigade-an-organized-campaign-to-silence-critics-of-islam/2015/01/16/0b002e5a-9aaf-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html?hpid=z2

Edited January 18, 2015 by Jingthing

[joeyg]

You know I'm born and raised Catholic. Almost became a priest. It's a long story. Been studying and trying practice Buddhism since 1974. I know it's not very "Buddhist like" but I want to say <deleted> THE POPE ON THIS ONE! Just sayin'

[jpinx]

Some very interesting background on HIGHLY ORGANIZED REPRESSION of free expression from the Muslim world directed aggressively at both at Muslims and non-Muslims. If people are hoping that Muslims will heal themselves from the poison of Jihadism, this article reveals even more of the challenges to that:

The official and unofficial channels work in tandem, harassing, threatening and battling introspective Muslims and non-Muslims everywhere. They bank on an important truth: Islam, as practiced from Malaysia to Morocco, is a shame-based, patriarchal culture that values honor and face-saving from the family to the public square. Which is why the bullying often works to silence critics of Islamic extremism.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/meet-the-honor-brigade-an-organized-campaign-to-silence-critics-of-islam/2015/01/16/0b002e5a-9aaf-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html?hpid=z2

Thanks for posting that article link. I have been saying for ages that Islam is it's own worst enemy and the rest of the world is just caught in the crossfire. Look at the state of Christianity at a similar age.

[Credo]

Thanks for posting that article link. I have been saying for ages that Islam is it's own worst enemy and the rest of the world is just caught in the crossfire. Look at the state of Christianity at a similar age.

But to do a comparison you also have to look at the progress that were made in science. That still puts Islam way behind the times.

[luk AJ]

The pope is a <deleted>, can I say that?

is a what?

[Ace of Pop]

[jpinx]

Thanks for posting that article link. I have been saying for ages that Islam is it's own worst enemy and the rest of the world is just caught in the crossfire. Look at the state of Christianity at a similar age.

But to do a comparison you also have to look at the progress that were made in science. That still puts Islam way behind the times.

Islamic society added considerably to sciences, art, astronomy, etc-

[Ace of Pop]

[Jingthing]

Islamic society added considerably to sciences, art, astronomy, etc-

PAST tense.

[jpinx]

Islamic society added considerably to sciences, art, astronomy, etc-

PAST tense.

My apologies if English is not your first language -- I used the word added - the past tense - as I am referring to a period sometimes known as the golden age of Islam -- from the mid 8th century until the mid 13th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

Whilst there were previously some highly noteworthy additions by Christianity, not a lot has recently been added by Christianity, per se. Most modern science and art is undertaken by non-religious bodies and individuals.

There were similar golden ages in Roman, Greek. Nordic. Hindu and other cultures - but never in Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Age

Edited January 19, 2015 by jpinx

[dragonfly94]

The pope is a <deleted>, can I say that?

is a what?

deleted but begins with w and ends in r

[dragonfly94]

Islamic society added considerably to sciences, art, astronomy, etc-

Really, I thought they mostly took knowledge of such things from people they over ran and forced into Islam, such as most of the Persian empire. When the Islamic expansion ended so too did their so called achievements in science.

[Jingthing]

Islamic society added considerably to sciences, art, astronomy, etc-

PAST tense.

My apologies if English is not your first language -- I used the word added - the past tense - as I am referring to a period sometimes known as the golden age of Islam -- from the mid 8th century until the mid 13th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

Whilst there were previously some highly noteworthy additions by Christianity, not a lot has recently been added by Christianity, per se. Most modern science and art is undertaken by non-religious bodies and individuals.

There were similar golden ages in Roman, Greek. Nordic. Hindu and other cultures - but never in Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Age

Exactly why I posted to add emphasis to the point: in the LONG AGO past.

What has Islamic culture given the world lately?

Isis? Youtube beheadings?

Edited January 19, 2015 by Jingthing

[arjunadawn]

Thanks for posting that article link. I have been saying for ages that Islam is it's own worst enemy and the rest of the world is just caught in the crossfire. Look at the state of Christianity at a similar age.

But to do a comparison you also have to look at the progress that were made in science. That still puts Islam way behind the times.

Islamic society added considerably to sciences, art, astronomy, etc-

Ok, I will bite: Where? How? Please provide some examples that are actually islamic, not parasitically stolen from the host that was invaded. I will concede in the vast expanse of history there will be some contributors, irrespective of repression, and Islam has some greats- Ru-mi, medical pioneer... you don't have to be exhaustive. Just give us some biggies.

I don't like when people suggest I go scrambling to do their homework. That is not my intention. The internet should be full with false narratives about islamic contributions. I believe once a host is invaded and exhausted, stasis sets in, the host dies, and islam lies idle in these places co opting the once great accomplishments of such peoples; but sadly, has actually produced only a very few important contributions to humanity. If i can be shown otherwise, I will see it. If not, I would like to consider your point.