JAG Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 "In this regard, all sectors of Thai society have been urged to join the reform efforts." General, please, whatever you do, never ask the majority of TVF members as it is amazing how ignorant they are on Thai political issues. The only thing they know is to repeat themselves, asking for your good self to go away, without realizing or even thinking that this will put Thailand back to the old days of corruption, disrespect of the law and the constitution. Please, take your time and reform this country........elections and democracy can wait. Thailand is not ready yet to face them again. What brand of boot polish do you use to polish his Jackboots? His head is so far up you know where that he views the world through his tonsils! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 The PM is right. All Thais must get involved in the reform process, without everyones involvement problems might arise in the future. Now is the time to speak up and be heard. Now is the time to speak up and be heard. if only that were legal for all Thais ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Somtam Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 How on earth can you be comparing structure of the country 600 years ago to today?. I find it very sad that this sort of thing is thought relevant. I try to be clued up on British history, particularly the 19th/20th century, but frankly I haven't a clue who was king in 1448. (I can look it up, but that would be cheating) My point is that you cannot use feudal comparisons to run a modern state. By viewing the contemporary context through the lens of past paternalistic kings and hierarchical structures, has proven an effective device for modern autocrats to structure current society in a timewarped ideal of subservience to authority. Like uncle Adolf and Frederick the Great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKASA Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Many in the current government are outstanding in their fields - in fact - that is where most of them were found. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggt Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 A daunting, complex, and controversial task...reforming Thailand will not be easy...probably best to be done under martial law...as there are a few folks who will not agree with any ideas coming from BKK...and prefer to express themselves thru violence... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyumiii Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 "Special Report: PM says Thailand at crossroads" And like most Thai drivers, they will not slow down, look both ways or use any kind of caution! My only question is, will they turn west or just head straight for North Korea and China? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BirdsandBooze Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 "In this regard, all sectors of Thai society have been urged to join the reform efforts." General, please, whatever you do, never ask the majority of TVF members as it is amazing how ignorant they are on Thai political issues. The only thing they know is to repeat themselves, asking for your good self to go away, without realizing or even thinking that this will put Thailand back to the old days of corruption, disrespect of the law and the constitution. Please, take your time and reform this country........elections and democracy can wait. Thailand is not ready yet to face them again. You wouldn't be a fan of Colonel Papadopoulos by any chance would you? The former Greek dictator and the General have quite a few things in common including preventing important areas of freedom of speech, suspension of civil liberties including the revocation of the right of assembly, regular broadcasts to the nation, re-education of those with opposing political views. One banned long hair while the other has banned the three finger salute. The similarities go on and on. The good old days eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenslegs Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Thailand is at a crossroads... I hope it's not this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucec64 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 The PM is right. All Thais must get involved in the reform process, without everyones involvement problems might arise in the future. Now is the time to speak up and be heard. I have a novel idea on how all Thais can get involved. Multiple groups can explain their vision for reform, and then all Thais would get an opportunity to decide which group best represented their interest by marking it on a piece of paper. The highest number of marks on the paper would decide who would reform the country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingEagle101 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 "In this regard, all sectors of Thai society have been urged to join the reform efforts." General, please, whatever you do, never ask the majority of TVF members as it is amazing how ignorant they are on Thai political issues. The only thing they know is to repeat themselves, asking for your good self to go away, without realizing or even thinking that this will put Thailand back to the old days of corruption, disrespect of the law and the constitution. Please, take your time and reform this country........elections and democracy can wait. Thailand is not ready yet to face them again. What brand of boot polish do you use to polish his Jackboots? I have a Thai wife, 2 children, and eleven years in Thailand as a rich dude, police afraid to pull over my BMW. I moved back to the USA, a place where police are willing to pull me over for not obeying a stop sign in the mall. Why did I do this? Because Thailand had turned into a place where greedy scum pay the boss tribute for the right to steal as much as they can from the people of Thailand. Of course, the Democrats steal too, but they have enough sense to understand there are limits to how much you can get away with, even in Thailand, so they leave some scraps on the table for others to quarrel over. At a meditation retreat I came to meet a very senior military figure, a graduate of a US military academy. With my many years in Thailand I was reluctant to engage anyone from the police, military or government. Over the course of a few dinners I came to realize there are actually some people who are patriots and care about the country and the people and understand both western and eastern mindset. While I am polishing my jackboots, I ask you PatOngo, can you say the same about Jatuporn, the other red leaders (who shout violent provocations then run away), the Thaksin clan, the police lackeys filling their pockets, an army of government bureaucrats with their hands out. I will leave out the swarm of scam artists ripping off tourist and Thai alike without conscience. Why, PatOngo, do you want to go back to that? Without doubt, the current self imposed leadership will swing the pendulum to far to the right. With a look a history and a little commonsense and luck, that pendulum will swing back to rest in a comfortable middle. And that is why I support the current leadership, so that my foreign educated Thai-American children can return to a democratic and rule of law nation. It is going to take time, certainly not one to two years, but at least there will be a nation and not a Thaksinland. Will you argue that democracy and the right to sell your vote is always right? If so, please study the two thaousand years of Chinese history to help understand that democracy is born of the west and paternalistic dynasties of the east. Expecting western democracy of the east is a losing proposition. Let Thais find their own way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emster23 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 "all sectors of Thai society have been urged to join the reform efforts." Just be sure not to make any suggestions that may run counter to plan of ruling elite, ask no questions, just sit like bobble head nodding "yes sir yes sir three bags full". To question, to offer alternatives could be seen as interrupting the love fest of returning happiness to Thailand. I wonder if those under arrest for daring to defy will be considered as part of thai society? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nong38 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Not a HUB? What about a hub of crossroads have we had that one yet? Ah coming soon .................ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyumiii Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Not a HUB? What about a hub of crossroads have we had that one yet? Ah coming soon .................ok Isn't that called a roundabout? "The roundabout of Asia" I like the sound of that! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nong38 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 The real crossroads is that people start to repsect and obey the laws and have little consideration for anyone else but themselves, it is a chaotic society. It can all change if they did the above but it seems so inbuilt into the Thai way of doing things that will be very difficult to change in short order. I get the impression that whatever is said or done people just carry on as they have always done, making the same mistakes and wondering where the truck went, the house has gone etc so long as there is enough for drinks today who cares about tomorrow, who cares about ASEAN and the future that it holds. The streets and roads of Thailand are paved with gold, well they were till they colapsed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commerce Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 How on earth can you be comparing structure of the country 600 years ago to today?. I find it very sad that this sort of thing is thought relevant. I try to be clued up on British history, particularly the 19th/20th century, but frankly I haven't a clue who was king in 1448. (I can look it up, but that would be cheating) My point is that you cannot use feudal comparisons to run a modern state. Structure of constitutions from beyond 600 years ago are still relevant today, as most Western constitutions carry relevance to Aristotle's polity and Solon's changes in influencing order (re slavery, women's rights and re-establishing Athens, taking power away from the absolute or unjust powers of antiquated ichpowers who then existed, through usury and wealth etc.. Modern philosophy does need to be carried into the current and modern day, because if we didn't learn from history where would we all be? Machiavelli and Hobbes, only a few centuries ago, were all for oligachy and totalitarniasim, yet the West learnt from older papers and philosophies written in Greek and Roman times, and based new constitutions relevant to such previous 'lessons learnt'. Thus, it is not feudal comparisons when old, unlearnt improvements are not applied to modern day constitutional drafts which have been proven universally throughout time. I could go into greater depth...... but this is not the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commerce Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 How on earth can you be comparing structure of the country 600 years ago to today?. I find it very sad that this sort of thing is thought relevant. I try to be clued up on British history, particularly the 19th/20th century, but frankly I haven't a clue who was king in 1448. (I can look it up, but that would be cheating) My point is that you cannot use feudal comparisons to run a modern state. Structure of constitutions from beyond 600 years ago are still relevant today, as most Western constitutions carry relevance to Aristotle's polity and Solon's changes in influencing order (re slavery, women's rights and re-establishing Athens, taking power away from the absolute or unjust powers of antiquated ichpowers who then existed, through usury and wealth etc.. Modern philosophy does need to be carried into the current and modern day, because if we didn't learn from history where would we all be? Machiavelli and Hobbes, only a few centuries ago, were all for oligachy and totalitarniasim, yet the West learnt from older papers and philosophies written in Greek and Roman times, and based new constitutions relevant to such previous 'lessons learnt'. Thus, it is not feudal comparisons when old, unlearnt improvements are not applied to modern day constitutional drafts which have been proven universally throughout time. I could go into greater depth...... but this is not the place. However, I shall add a little more: There may be other parts of Aristotle's writing which may address some of the insights I did not convey. Personally, I don't expect Thailand to sink into chaos because the people are accustomed to obeying. If power relies on information then my concern would be who gets to disseminate that info, and what is used to back it, trust or force (of arms)? I would say it's also interesting to note how much self-interest can lead to dissent - people tend to react to gov'ts only when they perceive themselves to be adversely affected. If Prayuth is (or can be) trusted from genuinely high moral ground then that might be enough. There will always be mischief makers who need to be contained for the common good; we all need the re-think camp somtimes! The underlying paradox to all this is that no matter how good the dissemination of information - it can only be received by any interested party in terms of their own, limited understanding, much less acted upon in a manner cosistent with the insight of the leader/teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hall Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 "In this regard, all sectors of Thai society have been urged to join the reform efforts." General, please, whatever you do, never ask the majority of TVF members as it is amazing how ignorant they are on Thai political issues. The only thing they know is to repeat themselves, asking for your good self to go away, without realizing or even thinking that this will put Thailand back to the old days of corruption, disrespect of the law and the constitution. Please, take your time and reform this country........elections and democracy can wait. Thailand is not ready yet to face them again. What brand of boot polish do you use to polish his Jackboots? I have a Thai wife, 2 children, and eleven years in Thailand as a rich dude, police afraid to pull over my BMW. I moved back to the USA, a place where police are willing to pull me over for not obeying a stop sign in the mall. Why did I do this? Because Thailand had turned into a place where greedy scum pay the boss tribute for the right to steal as much as they can from the people of Thailand. Of course, the Democrats steal too, but they have enough sense to understand there are limits to how much you can get away with, even in Thailand, so they leave some scraps on the table for others to quarrel over. At a meditation retreat I came to meet a very senior military figure, a graduate of a US military academy. With my many years in Thailand I was reluctant to engage anyone from the police, military or government. Over the course of a few dinners I came to realize there are actually some people who are patriots and care about the country and the people and understand both western and eastern mindset. While I am polishing my jackboots, I ask you PatOngo, can you say the same about Jatuporn, the other red leaders (who shout violent provocations then run away), the Thaksin clan, the police lackeys filling their pockets, an army of government bureaucrats with their hands out. I will leave out the swarm of scam artists ripping off tourist and Thai alike without conscience. Why, PatOngo, do you want to go back to that? Without doubt, the current self imposed leadership will swing the pendulum to far to the right. With a look a history and a little commonsense and luck, that pendulum will swing back to rest in a comfortable middle. And that is why I support the current leadership, so that my foreign educated Thai-American children can return to a democratic and rule of law nation. It is going to take time, certainly not one to two years, but at least there will be a nation and not a Thaksinland. Will you argue that democracy and the right to sell your vote is always right? If so, please study the two thaousand years of Chinese history to help understand that democracy is born of the west and paternalistic dynasties of the east. Expecting western democracy of the east is a losing proposition. Let Thais find their own way. mind blowing revelations rich dude - glad you have left the Country the Police can relax now. please don't come back 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papayabokbok Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 "In this regard, all sectors of Thai society have been urged to join the reform efforts." General, please, whatever you do, never ask the majority of TVF members as it is amazing how ignorant they are on Thai political issues. The only thing they know is to repeat themselves, asking for your good self to go away, without realizing or even thinking that this will put Thailand back to the old days of corruption, disrespect of the law and the constitution. Please, take your time and reform this country........elections and democracy can wait. Thailand is not ready yet to face them again. What brand of boot polish do you use to polish his Jackboots? His brand of boot polish is called Common Sense. There's another brand called 'Intelligence'. Have you tried them? Jing Lor (Really?!).. Are you 2 in cahoots to prove to be the most hated on this site?! And whats the deal Costas?..I dont even work but i certainly dont live on this site so i can be the seemingly FIRST to post on EVERY article where you may be able to pass your "wisdom"... as for Common Sense and Intelligence, i have seen very little of either in my many years here. And yes, i saw your little "Like" at the bottom of the page...are you getting some kickbacks from the Big Boys at the top this shaky Jenga Tower? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilymat Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 How on earth can you be comparing structure of the country 600 years ago to today?. I find it very sad that this sort of thing is thought relevant. I try to be clued up on British history, particularly the 19th/20th century, but frankly I haven't a clue who was king in 1448. (I can look it up, but that would be cheating) My point is that you cannot use feudal comparisons to run a modern state. By viewing the contemporary context through the lens of past paternalistic kings and hierarchical structures, has proven an effective device for modern autocrats to structure current society in a timewarped ideal of subservience to authority. Excellent! A bit like a PM citing Oliver Cromwell...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldiablo Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Oh please ianf. There is neither common sense nor intelligence coming from Costas2008. If you consider kissing the ass of a d______r having common sense and intelligence than you and Costas are both plebians well deserving of each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilymat Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 How on earth can you be comparing structure of the country 600 years ago to today?. I find it very sad that this sort of thing is thought relevant. I try to be clued up on British history, particularly the 19th/20th century, but frankly I haven't a clue who was king in 1448. (I can look it up, but that would be cheating) My point is that you cannot use feudal comparisons to run a modern state. Structure of constitutions from beyond 600 years ago are still relevant today, as most Western constitutions carry relevance to Aristotle's polity and Solon's changes in influencing order (re slavery, women's rights and re-establishing Athens, taking power away from the absolute or unjust powers of antiquated ichpowers who then existed, through usury and wealth etc.. Modern philosophy does need to be carried into the current and modern day, because if we didn't learn from history where would we all be? Machiavelli and Hobbes, only a few centuries ago, were all for oligachy and totalitarniasim, yet the West learnt from older papers and philosophies written in Greek and Roman times, and based new constitutions relevant to such previous 'lessons learnt'. Thus, it is not feudal comparisons when old, unlearnt improvements are not applied to modern day constitutional drafts which have been proven universally throughout time. I could go into greater depth...... but this is not the place. You may well be right. You clearly have an in depth knowledge of ancient history. However, I just get the impression that this guy is talking to Thai's as though this is year zero and everything has to be invented. Now that is Pol Pot talk, and you know where that led. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commerce Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 How on earth can you be comparing structure of the country 600 years ago to today?. I find it very sad that this sort of thing is thought relevant. I try to be clued up on British history, particularly the 19th/20th century, but frankly I haven't a clue who was king in 1448. (I can look it up, but that would be cheating) My point is that you cannot use feudal comparisons to run a modern state. Structure of constitutions from beyond 600 years ago are still relevant today, as most Western constitutions carry relevance to Aristotle's polity and Solon's changes in influencing order (re slavery, women's rights and re-establishing Athens, taking power away from the absolute or unjust powers of antiquated ichpowers who then existed, through usury and wealth etc.. Modern philosophy does need to be carried into the current and modern day, because if we didn't learn from history where would we all be? Machiavelli and Hobbes, only a few centuries ago, were all for oligachy and totalitarniasim, yet the West learnt from older papers and philosophies written in Greek and Roman times, and based new constitutions relevant to such previous 'lessons learnt'. Thus, it is not feudal comparisons when old, unlearnt improvements are not applied to modern day constitutional drafts which have been proven universally throughout time. I could go into greater depth...... but this is not the place. You may well be right. You clearly have an in depth knowledge of ancient history. However, I just get the impression that this guy is talking to Thai's as though this is year zero and everything has to be invented. Now that is Pol Pot talk, and you know where that led. Which is why I added a little more in my latter post. It is indeed the 'dissemination' of info' and its trustworthiness that needs investigation. Constitutions, or re-written versions, should contain some polarity in accordance with what has worked previously, especially concerning local communities and admin. If, as you refer to, Prayuth feels a 'desire' to re-write everything (in ignorance, may I add) then he is on very dangerous ground indeed. However, despite lack of experience it does seem that 'democracy', based upon whatever source, seems to be still a current ideal. Thus, reference to Pol Pot, who was a tyrannical and fearful dictator, should (hopefully) carry no persuasions into current climates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binjalin Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) yup democracy vs fascism Edited January 17, 2015 by binjalin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesimps Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 "In this regard, all sectors of Thai society have been urged to join the reform efforts." General, please, whatever you do, never ask the majority of TVF members as it is amazing how ignorant they are on Thai political issues. The only thing they know is to repeat themselves, asking for your good self to go away, without realizing or even thinking that this will put Thailand back to the old days of corruption, disrespect of the law and the constitution. Please, take your time and reform this country........elections and democracy can wait. Thailand is not ready yet to face them again. What brand of boot polish do you use to polish his Jackboots? So does your comment mean you want Thailand to go back to the way it was? I want Thailand back the way it was ie democratic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jesimps Posted January 17, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 17, 2015 Ain't it great to see and read the rhetoric from all the Red Apologists.. this article has really brought them out of the woodwork.. not an ounce of sense between the lot of them as if their views count... Go look at the Thai peoples .. happier than they have been in years... Maybe as farangs we do not agree with the happenings of this Government but the Thai peoples need someone to guide them and certainly not any of the previous incumbents ... Lets just hope that the reforms being created at present time will make a Big difference for the good of Thailand.. Long live the King.. What a load of patronising codswallop. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surangw Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 more like a dead end road at the base of a cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatOngo Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 "In this regard, all sectors of Thai society have been urged to join the reform efforts." General, please, whatever you do, never ask the majority of TVF members as it is amazing how ignorant they are on Thai political issues. The only thing they know is to repeat themselves, asking for your good self to go away, without realizing or even thinking that this will put Thailand back to the old days of corruption, disrespect of the law and the constitution. Please, take your time and reform this country........elections and democracy can wait. Thailand is not ready yet to face them again. What brand of boot polish do you use to polish his Jackboots? I have a Thai wife, 2 children, and eleven years in Thailand as a rich dude, police afraid to pull over my BMW. I moved back to the USA, a place where police are willing to pull me over for not obeying a stop sign in the mall. Why did I do this? Because Thailand had turned into a place where greedy scum pay the boss tribute for the right to steal as much as they can from the people of Thailand. Of course, the Democrats steal too, but they have enough sense to understand there are limits to how much you can get away with, even in Thailand, so they leave some scraps on the table for others to quarrel over. At a meditation retreat I came to meet a very senior military figure, a graduate of a US military academy. With my many years in Thailand I was reluctant to engage anyone from the police, military or government. Over the course of a few dinners I came to realize there are actually some people who are patriots and care about the country and the people and understand both western and eastern mindset. While I am polishing my jackboots, I ask you PatOngo, can you say the same about Jatuporn, the other red leaders (who shout violent provocations then run away), the Thaksin clan, the police lackeys filling their pockets, an army of government bureaucrats with their hands out. I will leave out the swarm of scam artists ripping off tourist and Thai alike without conscience. Why, PatOngo, do you want to go back to that? Without doubt, the current self imposed leadership will swing the pendulum to far to the right. With a look a history and a little commonsense and luck, that pendulum will swing back to rest in a comfortable middle. And that is why I support the current leadership, so that my foreign educated Thai-American children can return to a democratic and rule of law nation. It is going to take time, certainly not one to two years, but at least there will be a nation and not a Thaksinland. Will you argue that democracy and the right to sell your vote is always right? If so, please study the two thaousand years of Chinese history to help understand that democracy is born of the west and paternalistic dynasties of the east. Expecting western democracy of the east is a losing proposition. Let Thais find their own way. Oh tut tut screaming, be patient, you'll be able to vote for Brother Jeb in the next election, then you can upgrade your BMW to a Cadillac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc46 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 "In this regard, all sectors of Thai society have been urged to join the reform efforts." General, please, whatever you do, never ask the majority of TVF members as it is amazing how ignorant they are on Thai political issues. The only thing they know is to repeat themselves, asking for your good self to go away, without realizing or even thinking that this will put Thailand back to the old days of corruption, disrespect of the law and the constitution. Please, take your time and reform this country........elections and democracy can wait. Thailand is not ready yet to face them again. What brand of boot polish do you use to polish his Jackboots? His brand of boot polish is called Common Sense. There's another brand called 'Intelligence'. Have you tried them? I looked for that one for years here in Thailand but have not seen or find that strange one that they named (( intelligence )) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FangFerang Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Ain't it great to see and read the rhetoric from all the Red Apologists.. this article has really brought them out of the woodwork.. not an ounce of sense between the lot of them as if their views count... Go look at the Thai peoples .. happier than they have been in years... Maybe as farangs we do not agree with the happenings of this Government but the Thai peoples need someone to guide them and certainly not any of the previous incumbents ... Lets just hope that the reforms being created at present time will make a Big difference for the good of Thailand.. Long live the King.. Ain't it great to see all the elitist scum boot lickers file out to call anyone who disagrees with the current government a red apologist...this article has really brought them marching from the termite mound...not an ounce of intelligence between them as if their views count... Go look at the Thai people...out of work and down and out like they have not been in many years...maybe as farangs we do not agree with the happenings of this government but the Thai people need more dictators...Let's just know that the reforms being created at present...some type of creation looking like a perpetual move in the right direction with no real motion....let's just clap for Tinker Bell and all will be well. Long live the King. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyumiii Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I went down to the crossroads, Fell down on my knees.. I went down to the crossroads, Fell down on my knees.. Asked Prayut for mercy, Help me if you please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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