Study: Germans have skeptical view of Israel

[nottocus]

I'm more than skeptical of Israel and I ain't German.

[Smurkster]

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It's definitely not an expression of anti-semitism, it's an expression of observation and of irony.

Why pick on Germany. Most of the world feels the same way.

They are all wrong of course. There's no similarity between Nazi and Israel behaviour at all....

The whole world knows that Gaza is a prison.

The holocaust is trotted out with regularity but let us not forget one thing.

The victims of the Nazis included non Jewish mentally and physically disabled,gypsies,gays and lesbians and others. These victims are never mentioned in pro Israeli propaganda.

yep, 11 million people died in the holocaust, yet for some reason we only hear about the 6 million jews, what about the other 5 million are they chopped liver?

[green job]

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It's definitely not an expression of anti-semitism, it's an expression of observation and of irony.

Why pick on Germany. Most of the world feels the same way.

They are all wrong of course. There's no similarity between Nazi and Israel behaviour at all....

The whole world knows that Gaza is a prison.

The holocaust is trotted out with regularity but let us not forget one thing.

The victims of the Nazis included non Jewish mentally and physically disabled,gypsies,gays and lesbians and others. These victims are never mentioned in pro Israeli propaganda.

yep, 11 million people died in the holocaust, yet for some reason we only hear about the 6 million jews, what about the other 5 million are they chopped liver?

We do hear about them, Also in all due respect to the German state,they are as well as the Jewish people paid pensions .I happen to know many,gypsies that where involved, I have also seen there ID numbers tatto on their arms.

[Baerboxer]

555 I guess it is out of the question that some modern day

Germans might just be ....how should put it we delicately so as to not be labeled anti-something or other......

Not happy with Israel's governments policies?

Nah can't be that eh? They must be all brainwashed Nazi lovers or something

"Not happy" is not the same thing as this:

Some 35 percent of Germans equate Israeli policies toward the Palestinians with Nazi policies toward the Jews, an increase from 30 percent in 2007, when the foundation conducted a similar study.

That's totally messed up and totally wrong. Yes, it is their "opinion" but objectively it is still totally wrong. Nazi policy towards Jews was mass extermination in industrialized death camps. Do Germans not learn this in their schools?

It's very easy for people to use the term Nazi incorrectly, either through ignorance or withing caring about what they say.

The Nazis targeting certain groups, especially the Jews for extermination. If they had not been defeated they would have exterminated the Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, all disabled people and then turned their attention on others. Completely evil driven by some very absurd thinking and cruel implementation.

How can any sane person equate that to the actions of Israel in trying to protect itself from terrorist attacks?

Sure there may be instances where the IDF need to be investigated, just like all military forces. But remember rules of engagement are really easy when you are sitting in your armchair and not on the front line.

But suggesting that Israel behaves anything like the Nazis is just ludicrous.

[Pakboong]

I guess it really boils down to whether or not the perceptions that created those anti-semetic issues were actually remedied. Otherwise, there is no reason to think anything has actually changed.

[Jingthing]

yep, 11 million people died in the holocaust, yet for some reason we only hear about the 6 million jews, what about the other 5 million are they chopped liver?

You are suggesting (offensively) that Jews have exaggerated the Nazi obsession with specifically killing Jews. But you are wrong. Jews were the primary target of their genocide.

Other groups targeted by Nazi genocide are regularly mentioned. If you haven't seen that, you haven't been paying attention.

Also keep in mind Jews have always been a tiny population group relative to global population even before the holocaust, and back then concentrated in Europe.

Romas as well, a small group and concentrated, but check out Nazi era propaganda and see how much was about Romas compared to Jews ... the clear focus was specifically on Jews.

Genocide against gays is trickier ... they are in every country and new ones are being made every day.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005143

The Holocaust was the systematic, bureaucratic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of six million Jews by the Nazi regime and its collaborators. "Holocaust" is a word of Greek origin meaning "sacrifice by fire." The Nazis, who came to power in Germany in January 1933, believed that Germans were "racially superior" and that the Jews, deemed "inferior," were an alien threat to the so-called German racial community.

During the era of the Holocaust, German authorities also targeted other groups because of their perceived "racial inferiority": Roma (Gypsies), the disabled, and some of the Slavic peoples (Poles, Russians, and others). Other groups were persecuted on political, ideological, and behavioral grounds, among them Communists, Socialists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and homosexuals.

[arjunadawn]

Impressive photo. However, lets step back even further.

[Choctastic]

The misuse of the holocaust to silence criticism, by the Israeli machinery, is becoming unglued, with every Palestinian drenched in White Phosphorus. Germans, who had nothing to do with Nazis and their atrocities, quite rightly, have had a belly full of it. Israeli defenders have used up what political capital it gave them. We see them for what they are. Morally bankrupt and increasingly desperate.

[Morch]

Germans have skeptical view of Israel

I'm not surprised. If my country, in whatever form, had tried to completely annihilate a given people, I would be wary that they might come back and bite me on the arse one day, especially one equipped with nukes.

And this particular display of international relations acumen is, perhaps, the reason why you do not actually run anything resembling a country.

[Morch]

Why pick on Germany. Most of the world feels the same way.

They are all wrong of course. There's no similarity between Nazi and Israel behaviour at all....

What an apt title for this bit of propaganda - "Just Imagine!".

No need for things to be actually similar if one just imagines.

[Smurkster]

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The misuse of the holocaust to silence criticism, by the Israeli machinery, is becoming unglued, with every Palestinian drenched in White Phosphorus. Germans, who had nothing to do with Nazis and their atrocities, quite rightly, have had a belly full of it. Israeli defenders have used up what political capital it gave them. We see them for what they are. Morally bankrupt and increasingly desperate.

so much that the Congress of my country (do I need to even mention which one it is) is basically strung up by the balls and will cow tow to just about anything Netanyahu asks of them...he says jump they say how high...."Oh yes sir no sir Mr Netanyahu, our citizens are an afterthought, but answering and being of your service is our number one priority" look why not just make Israel the 51st state if they are going to be so damn dependent on us and our (MY) money

[arjunadawn]

yep, 11 million people died in the holocaust, yet for some reason we only hear about the 6 million jews, what about the other 5 million are they chopped liver?

You are suggesting (offensively) that Jews have exaggerated the Nazi obsession with specifically killing Jews. But you are wrong. Jews were the primary target of their genocide.

Other groups targeted by Nazi genocide are regularly mentioned. If you haven't seen that, you haven't been paying attention.

Also keep in mind Jews have always been a tiny population group relative to global population even before the holocaust, and back then concentrated in Europe.

Romas as well, a small group and concentrated, but check out Nazi era propaganda and see how much was about Romas compared to Jews ... the clear focus was specifically on Jews.

I have also considered in my younger days about the other victims of the Germans that seem to have little voice in posterity. I have learned that it is not really that "others" have no voice, its just that the Jews, as a single, very specific policy of the German State were sought for annihilation and thus the survivors have very effectively asserted "Not Again." I applaud them. This more tragic uniqueness opposed to others, reveals itself in the numbers when one looks to other countries and the populations killed there; for the most part jews are at the top of the list as State Policy. It is the others who potentially pose a threat to the State (secret handshakes, Pastor/sinner confidentiality, etc) that were then persecuted to consolidate control and power. But the jews? Because they were jews. The similarity in ideology can be seen with regard to the Islamic Grand Mufti and Hitler alliance. One need not look further then here to understand why the nazi flag frequents mosques in the Levant. Indeed, the marriage of nazism and islam is legendary in history, and often celebrated today.

Jews do not say anywhere that others were not killed or brutalized, only that "we" as Jews were brutalized, and we shall not forget. If you apply a standard to the jews not applied to others you are indeed "offensive." No one suffers the descendents of the Armenian Genocide to give voice to the 37 million other people who died in those days. Armenians do not refute nor comment on others, specifically, so why assign a motive or standard to jews that others are not held to?

[Morch]

The whole world knows that Gaza is a prison.

The holocaust is trotted out with regularity but let us not forget one thing.

The victims of the Nazis included non Jewish mentally and physically disabled,gypsies,gays and lesbians and others. These victims are never mentioned in pro Israeli propaganda.

And prison is similar to what the Nazis did....how?

Does the fact that this so-called prison is also guarded by another country, which happens to by not Israel (Egypt, for those having trouble with their maps) makes the Egyptians Nazi-like as well?

Let us not forget that some posters do not bother to actually verify their broad brush and definitive claims - even to the extent of paying attention to materials posted on this thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/795049-study-germans-have-skeptical-view-of-israel/?p=8989722

Not that I go for the drama, but there is actually mention of other groups targeted by the Nazis even in this clip.

[Jingthing]

The misuse of the holocaust to silence criticism, by the Israeli machinery, is becoming unglued, with every Palestinian drenched in White Phosphorus. Germans, who had nothing to do with Nazis and their atrocities, quite rightly, have had a belly full of it. Israeli defenders have used up what political capital it gave them. We see them for what they are. Morally bankrupt and increasingly desperate.

Dude, nobody here is saying that Israel isn't a fair target of criticism. But I (and others) are saying to seriously suggest an EQUIVALENCE between Nazi Germany and modern Israel is atrociously wrong.

[Morch]

I am glad that at least ONE country is waking up to the Israeli issues. Kudos to the Germans. Another 212 other countries to go.

If I lived in a refugee camp for 60 odd years, I too would be angry. If someone built a house in MY garden, I too would be angry. The only way to win against the Zionists is to fight back.

One country? Have you been living under a rock?

The vast majority of countries recognize Palestine to one degree or another. Not a new situation.

Israel gets repeatedly criticized on UNGC discussions.

Practically all of the Muslim countries are regularly taking anti-Israeli positions.

The only way to win is to fight? How did it work out for the Palestinians so far?

Guess that defining a "win" got a lot to do with asserting what ways are to be utilized in achieving it.

[Morch]

What happened in Nazi-germany and Europe some 70-80 years ago, resulted in a lot of sympathy for the jewish people. Yet, what's happening now in Israel en Palestine, rapidly takes away that sympathy. Seems like the israelian authorities did not learn from the atrocities done unto them, and treat the palestinians just as bad. Most europeans feel that way, certainly not only the majority of germans.

Was it not for the "just as bad" bit, your post would have been spot on.

Reality check: There is no mass extermination of Palestinians.

[arjunadawn]

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so much that the Congress of my country (do I need to even mention which one it is) is basically strung up by the balls and will cow tow to just about anything Netanyahu asks of them...he says jump they say how high...."Oh yes sir no sir Mr Netanyahu, our citizens are an afterthought, but answering and being of your service is our number one priority" look why not just make Israel the 51st state if they are going to be so damn dependent on us and our (MY) money

Your innuendo suggests... what? The US congress is bought and paid for? Israel is a stooge of the US? Oh, the US is a stooge of Israel? I think you suggest the later.

Perhaps this is true but it is a meaningless observation with context; and the failed narrative that Israel bought and paid for the US House is fallacious. It is simply not supported by the facts (as I see them). What I do see is a core conservative US christian narrative that sees in Israel the possibility of the return of their savior. Yes, they tell themselves the wayward jews are still waiting for the savior the first time, but they are cousins. In this simplistic fashion a core of representatives come from the bible and rust belts to DC reflecting the imperative to nurture Israel as our ally in the region. At this point Jewish lobbyists may excerpt influence, but it is the religious connection that binds the jews to the US.

BTW, in my calculations Israel receives 1% of its GDP from the US, and a majority of that is military aid as part of a treaty US is promised to. Dependent on our money?

Note: It really is quite amazing that the christians see the jews as wayward and the muslims see the christians as wayward. What a mess- all of 'em.

Edited January 27, 2015 by arjunadawn

[Ulysses G.]

If the Palestinians don't want to be "persecuted" they can stop the terrorism and sign a peace treaty. They are the ones who decided to make Israel their enemy.

Israel's nukes don't cause problems. They solve them.

Shlomo Sand, professor of History at Tel Aviv University wrote books "The invention of the Jewish People" and "The Invention of the land of Israel"

And how about the thousands of books by historians that contradict the ravings of these oddballs. I'm afraid that just writing a "book", does not mean much these days.

In sum, “How I Stopped Being a Jew” is a bizarre mixture of memoir, crackpot history and (to put it generously) borrowed ideas of Jewish identity. And it's all to prove that a Jew is a terrible thing. For this, Sand will no doubt be branded with that silly epithet, “self-hating Jew.” Bear in mind, though, that it's other Jews he hates. Sand holds himself in the highest esteem.

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/206656/how-i-stopped-reading-shlomo-sands-crackpot-memoir/#ixzz3Q0hPDcpQ

[snowgard]

...also more amazing is that everyone has the nerve to call the jews Nazis, when in ww2 the leader of the Palestinians Haj Amin AL Hussaini was an ally and supporter of hitler and helped him to establish the croatian Muslim Nazi brigades, and rally the Arab world to support Nazi Germany.

Do you forget that the Brits had occupied almost every country in the near east and other parts of africa? Treated the people like slaves, stole all expensive goods out of this countries? All this natives hate the Brits for it and wanted their freedom back!!! About this they supported the Germans.

How it was in India, Malaysia, Indonesia, ....!!! The natives stroke back again the Brits.

Don't forget the 3.5 million africans who the Brits sent in slavery to america, But this is another story from the GLORY BRITS!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------

At least 1,195 Israelis and 9,126 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000.

Source: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stat/deaths.html

So the Israelis killed 10 x so much unweaponed civilians. Who had nothing to do with the terrorists!!! They died already in their bombings.

How you want to call this??? Is this not TERRORISM, too?

Why the sent bombs on schools, hospitals and houses where normal innocent People live?

Do you real want to tell us that the israelian hightech army cannot locate and destroy only the terrorism camps??? BS!!!

They want to kill a lot of People and destroy the complete infrastructure in Gaza and Palestine.

And this is not ok!!!

[Morch]

The only way to win against the Zionists is to fight back.

The Israelis have proved themselves a lot better at fighting and winning and creating a successful country than the Palestinians or their Arab brothers. Fighting them seems to be a losing proposition.

Only until the Iranians get the nukes.

Then we will finally see a different middle east.

If the Iranians fire first then the yanks will have to wipe them out, the same with the Israelis, because the rest of the world just will not let them get away with it no matter what excuse they trot out.

We are joined by another strategic commentator, who seems to have lost his map.

If Iran ever fires nukes on Israel, it might be the end of Israel, and at the same time the end of Palestine.

The USA will wipe Iran out if it wipes out Israel first? Seriously? The USA will kill 70+ million people just like that. Sure thing, if you say so.

[Smurkster]

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The only way to win against the Zionists is to fight back.

The Israelis have proved themselves a lot better at fighting and winning and creating a successful country than the Palestinians or their Arab brothers. Fighting them seems to be a losing proposition.

Only until the Iranians get the nukes.

Then we will finally see a different middle east.

If the Iranians fire first then the yanks will have to wipe them out, the same with the Israelis, because the rest of the world just will not let them get away with it no matter what excuse they trot out.

We are joined by another strategic commentator, who seems to have lost his map.

If Iran ever fires nukes on Israel, it might be the end of Israel, and at the same time the end of Palestine.

The USA will wipe Iran out if it wipes out Israel first? Seriously? The USA will kill 70+ million people just like that. Sure thing, if you say so.

I think both would be wiped out by somebody if they fired first...thing is if Israel even so much as fired a single nuclear weapon, they would be hit so quickly from every direction that all 6 million of em including the Palestinians would probably be gone so quickly...Israel's neighbours are just waiting for such a scenario to unfold

[Morch]

Germans have skeptical view of Israel

I'm not surprised. If my country, in whatever form, had tried to completely annihilate a given people, I would be wary that they might come back and bite me on the arse one day, especially one equipped with nukes.

So what do you suggest ? That israel will nuke Germany first?!?

Look at what you wrote...it's Germany that in another form tried to annihilate the Jews, and it's Germany who have nukes...

israel didn't try to annihilate anyone, they were and still are fighting for their survival from aggressive ruthless Muslim coalition

Germany does not have nuclear weapons of its own.

[Jingthing]

The governments of Israel and Germany are friendly. I don't think ANY KIND of war between Israel and Germany is on anyone's radar.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Jingthing

[Morch]

That picture shows exactly what's wrong with your side of the argument:

one thing that I'll give you guys credit for is the effectiveness of your propaganda and disinformation, which the guilty stricken post ww2 Europeans gladly swallow as a mean of cleansing ones conscience...

there is a good reason why nothing shows on the south side of Gaza and it's not lack of space; it should show Egyptian tanks and destruction of more than a thousand of terror tunnels...guess why a fellow Muslim state does it?

further more, that's the SMALL PICTURE. The BIG PICTURE shows whole of Israel landlocked by hate coalition of hostile Islamic states: syria, Lebanon, west bank, Jordan, Egypt,and Gazastan...beyond that you got Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Sudan and other dark members of that hate coalition!

Israel actually got long standing peace agreements with two of its neighbors (Jordan and Egypt).

The West Bank and Gaza are not countries as such.

Most of the countries mentioned are not presently a direct threat to Israel's security, the notion that they are all part of a coalition is bogus to the extreme.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Morch

[Morch]

70 years on and they still pull the holocaust card for sympathy.

Rest of the world has moved on and I suggest they do also.

Not saying to forget but it's time to heal old wounds.

Interesting concept.

Does it apply to Palestinians as well? About the same time frame usually quoted....

[Morch]

I should imagine that a significant number of Israelis maintain a healthy scepticism with regard to Germany!

If you consider 24% of Israelis a significant number, then your claim would make sense. But it is significant that in this (presumable representative) sample, only 24% had a negative view of Germany.

About 20% of the Israelis are Arabs (mostly Muslim). I would guess that negative views of Germany would be more prominent among the Jewish population.

[Morch]

Sounds like there are a lot of brain-washed, far left loons in Germany, but better than brain-washed, far right Nazis like not so long ago.

They've still got some Nazis there too ...

There is a lot to admire in modern Germany, from Israelis and everyone.

Their leader Merkel seems to be very impressive and fighting hard there against both antisemitism and discrimination solely based on Muslim identity.

Some Israelis are even migrating to Germany ... while the motivation may be that there are great opportunities there (yes even such things as affordable housing compared to Israel), it's surely a good thing for some Jews to move to Germany after so many were exterminated by the Nazis as if they were cockroaches.

The geopolitical situations of Israel and Germany are very different. Israel still faces existential threats. Germany is on top of Europe. It's ironic of course as Germany lost two great wars ... but that's another story.

You ignore, that Israel is also doing crimes that wouldn't be accepted by any other country.

And so do other countries. There are atrocities carried out all over the world, many of them much worse than things related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Yet somehow, the "same as the Nazis" line is used much more often with regards to Israeli actions.

[green job]

...also more amazing is that everyone has the nerve to call the jews Nazis, when in ww2 the leader of the Palestinians Haj Amin AL Hussaini was an ally and supporter of hitler and helped him to establish the croatian Muslim Nazi brigades, and rally the Arab world to support Nazi Germany.

Do you forget that the Brits had occupied almost every country in the near east and other parts of africa? Treated the people like slaves, stole all expensive goods out of this countries? All this natives hate the Brits for it and wanted their freedom back!!! About this they supported the Germans.

How it was in India, Malaysia, Indonesia, ....!!! The natives stroke back again the Brits.

Don't forget the 3.5 million africans who the Brits sent in slavery to america, But this is another story from the GLORY BRITS!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------

At least 1,195 Israelis and 9,126 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000.

Source: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stat/deaths.html

So the Israelis killed 10 x so much unweaponed civilians. Who had nothing to do with the terrorists!!! They died already in their bombings.

How you want to call this??? Is this not TERRORISM, too?

Why the sent bombs on schools, hospitals and houses where normal innocent People live?

Do you real want to tell us that the israelian hightech army cannot locate and destroy only the terrorism camps??? BS!!!

They want to kill a lot of People and destroy the complete infrastructure in Gaza and Palestine.

And this is not ok!!!

OH Leber Gott im himmel,you are such a pimmel !

[Jingthing]

It's no mystery why Israel is specifically demonized this way. It's about JEWS. Such people are trying to minimize, sometimes even justify what Hitler did to the Jews ... you even see this openly voiced ... we can see now why they had it coming, see how they behave, too bad Hitler didn't finish the job, etc. This is why equation of Nazi Germany and modern Israel is so closely linked to ANTISEMITISM.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Jingthing

[Smurkster]

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It's no mystery why Israel is specifically demonized this way. It's about JEWS. Such people are trying to minimize, sometimes even justify what Hitler did to the Jews ... you even see this openly voiced ... we can see now why they had it coming, see how they behave, too bad Hitler didn't finish the job, etc. This is why equation of Nazi Germany and modern Israel is so closely linked to ANTISEMITISM.

you know what just stop it, you are just fanning the flames to the fire with this RIDICULOUS comment. what about all the jews out their who are against Israel?..are they somehow being anti Jew ?? Are all people who decry Muslim fundamentalism anti Islam? Are all people who criticise the American government anti American?...no..sure there is might be some people out there who criticise Israel soley based on anti semetism...but hardly EVERyone....