Study: Germans have skeptical view of Israel

[Jingthing]

Don't agree then. If you don't like the immigration policy of Israel ... so what, who cares, it's really none of your business any more than the immigration policy of Bolivia. Sovereign states get to say the rules. Yes even Jews. Israel is a sovereign state. It's true Kurdistan isn't but some day it MIGHT be and if that day comes, the people of their country get to say their policies.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Jingthing

[metisdead]

A post containing inflammatory content copy and pasted from various forums has been removed as well as a reply.

[green job]

There is a VERY excellent and VERY honest German t.v. miniseries which gets into these issues rather deeply, set during WW2 natch:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1883092/

Unsere Mütter, Unsere Väter (marketed in English as Generation War)

Review snippet from the trailer:

"Galvanized a new discussion about Germany's war guilt." The New Republic

Generation War is a refreshingly mature antidote to the saccharine fantasy of Germans as mostly victims in Brian Percival’s The Book Thief from last year. The key tragedy here is the Nazis’ dragging down their country by their refusal to face reality on the front and at home, and the convenient settling of personal scores to advance post-war positions is a chilling and cynical lead into Germany’s future.

http://film-forward.com/star-reviews/generation-war

Here we go again,,,,,, The Nazis were the German folk,all new about what was happening ALL This they admit in the way they now pay their

income tax...... If you vote for a politicle party they represent YOU your country Bush and Blair spring to mind!! Merkle always say they were freed from the Nazis Bullsxxt .The Germans started a war,and lost. They also persicuted the Jews that where the backbone of Germany.

[Kasset Tak]

The Nazis put innocent people in concentration camps and murdered them wholesale for no reason other than their religion.

Israel let the Palestinians have land to rule themselves in Gaza. They destroyed the infrastructure and ran out and elected terrorists to govern them. They planted bombs in Israel and shot many thousands of rockets at civilians. Any restrictions are the Palestinians own fault. There IS NO similarity between Nazi and Israel behavior to the rational mind.

I can't sit here and just read stupid comments!

Israel would NEVER ever get away whit this if it was not for WWII. The Jews and the Palestinians where given land (from what was then an British colony) the Israel occupied the land of the Palestinians.

And you are talking about terrorists, give the Palestinians modern arms like tanks, helicopters and real SAM and then see if Israel continues to attack.

Israel is depriving Palestinians basic civil rights like healthcare and education.

And the orthodox Jews are getting more and more (40-50% in 10-20 years), you know those people we're the men spit at the girls because they are girls and sees all other people beneath them because we are not Jewish!

You can Google it and see some good clips on YouTube.

So I think it will only get worse and worse and with people like you who justifies that behavior it can only get to a state of total destruction!

[Morch]

No one should have any automatic rights to become citizens of a country if the decision is based on religion.

Off topic, I consider it a fairy tail triology. Torah, bible and the koran. Jesus had followers that added a lot of stuff to the old testament to be able to sell his new version to jews. Muhammed did version number three where he acknowleged version 1 and 2 so he easier could get converts.

Excuse me, but that's very arrogant. Who are YOU to dictate the immigration policies of sovereign nations? If there is ever a Kurdistan and there might be one someday, would it be unreasonable for them to welcome Kurds from all over to be citizens there if they choose? Lots of countries do similar things. For example if you have Italian ancestors there is a path towards Italian citizenship, last time I checked anyway.

Well I dont agree with your example: The kurds. The kurds have no right to steal parts of Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran even though there are areas in these countries with kurdish majorities.

Kurdistan have never existed. Just because Britain mapped a theoretical Kurdistan doesnt mean that the theoretical map is anything but a theoretical map made by a country that at that time were a colonial country that used the globe as a drawing board for their colonial and imperialist actions.

Kurdistan is just a name used to say that an region has a majority of kurds or as a provincial name, nothing else.

Kurds have no birthright to move to a theoretical country that never should become reality.

Off topic, the kurds in the autonomous kurdish region in Iraq are kicking out turkmens, christians and arabs and importing iraqi kurds to oil rich areas and they got good oil deal with the US that they dont want to share in a fair way.

And dont tell me Im wrong. I have christian and kurdish friends from Erbil. A good friend was a kurdish peshmerga fighter, my christian Iraqi friend have an older brother that fought side by side with kurds as a peshmerga fighter for 8 years against Saddam.

I dont care about the Italian policy. Are Italy some kind of rolemodel or authority in these matters?

Many of the countries in the Middle East (and Africa, for that matter) were formed under exactly such "theoretical" map-making exercises, with little regard as to realities. Sure you had a point there, somewhere.

[BKKBobby]

No one should have any automatic rights to become citizens of a country if the decision is based on religion.

Off topic, I consider it a fairy tail triology. Torah, bible and the koran. Jesus had followers that added a lot of stuff to the old testament to be able to sell his new version to jews. Muhammed did version number three where he acknowleged version 1 and 2 so he easier could get converts.

Excuse me, but that's very arrogant. Who are YOU to dictate the immigration policies of sovereign nations? If there is ever a Kurdistan and there might be one someday, would it be unreasonable for them to welcome Kurds from all over to be citizens there if they choose? Lots of countries do similar things. For example if you have Italian ancestors there is a path towards Italian citizenship, last time I checked anyway.

Well I dont agree with your example: The kurds. The kurds have no right to steal parts of Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran even though there are areas in these countries with kurdish majorities.

Kurdistan have never existed. Just because Britain mapped a theoretical Kurdistan doesnt mean that the theoretical map is anything but a theoretical map made by a country that at that time were a colonial country that used the globe as a drawing board for their colonial and imperialist actions.

Kurdistan is just a name used to say that an region has a majority of kurds or as a provincial name, nothing else.

Kurds have no birthright to move to a theoretical country that never should become reality.

Off topic, the kurds in the autonomous kurdish region in Iraq are kicking out turkmens, christians and arabs and importing iraqi kurds to oil rich areas and they got good oil deal with the US that they dont want to share in a fair way.

And dont tell me Im wrong. I have christian and kurdish friends from Erbil. A good friend was a kurdish peshmerga fighter, my christian Iraqi friend have an older brother that fought side by side with kurds as a peshmerga fighter for 8 years against Saddam.

I dont care about the Italian policy. Are Italy some kind of rolemodel or authority in these matters?

Many of the countries in the Middle East (and Africa, for that matter) were formed under exactly such "theoretical" map-making exercises, with little regard as to realities. Sure you had a point there, somewhere.

Yes, but European colonialist countries have stopped those practices a long time ago.

I had a point and its right here.

[Morch]

Excuse me, but that's very arrogant. Who are YOU to dictate the immigration policies of sovereign nations? If there is ever a Kurdistan and there might be one someday, would it be unreasonable for them to welcome Kurds from all over to be citizens there if they choose? Lots of countries do similar things. For example if you have Italian ancestors there is a path towards Italian citizenship, last time I checked anyway.

Well I dont agree with your example: The kurds. The kurds have no right to steal parts of Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran even though there are areas in these countries with kurdish majorities.

Kurdistan have never existed. Just because Britain mapped a theoretical Kurdistan doesnt mean that the theoretical map is anything but a theoretical map made by a country that at that time were a colonial country that used the globe as a drawing board for their colonial and imperialist actions.

Kurdistan is just a name used to say that an region has a majority of kurds or as a provincial name, nothing else.

Kurds have no birthright to move to a theoretical country that never should become reality.

Off topic, the kurds in the autonomous kurdish region in Iraq are kicking out turkmens, christians and arabs and importing iraqi kurds to oil rich areas and they got good oil deal with the US that they dont want to share in a fair way.

And dont tell me Im wrong. I have christian and kurdish friends from Erbil. A good friend was a kurdish peshmerga fighter, my christian Iraqi friend have an older brother that fought side by side with kurds as a peshmerga fighter for 8 years against Saddam.

I dont care about the Italian policy. Are Italy some kind of rolemodel or authority in these matters?

Many of the countries in the Middle East (and Africa, for that matter) were formed under exactly such "theoretical" map-making exercises, with little regard as to realities. Sure you had a point there, somewhere.

Yes, but European colonialist countries have stopped those practices a long time ago.

I had a point and its right here.

Your point was that locals need to accept decisions made by outsiders decades ago as edicts and live with them?

It would seem not all people in the region see things this way, and of course, the argument is used only in some cases, not all.

[BKKBobby]

Excuse me, but that's very arrogant. Who are YOU to dictate the immigration policies of sovereign nations? If there is ever a Kurdistan and there might be one someday, would it be unreasonable for them to welcome Kurds from all over to be citizens there if they choose? Lots of countries do similar things. For example if you have Italian ancestors there is a path towards Italian citizenship, last time I checked anyway.

Well I dont agree with your example: The kurds. The kurds have no right to steal parts of Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran even though there are areas in these countries with kurdish majorities.

Kurdistan have never existed. Just because Britain mapped a theoretical Kurdistan doesnt mean that the theoretical map is anything but a theoretical map made by a country that at that time were a colonial country that used the globe as a drawing board for their colonial and imperialist actions.

Kurdistan is just a name used to say that an region has a majority of kurds or as a provincial name, nothing else.

Kurds have no birthright to move to a theoretical country that never should become reality.

Off topic, the kurds in the autonomous kurdish region in Iraq are kicking out turkmens, christians and arabs and importing iraqi kurds to oil rich areas and they got good oil deal with the US that they dont want to share in a fair way.

And dont tell me Im wrong. I have christian and kurdish friends from Erbil. A good friend was a kurdish peshmerga fighter, my christian Iraqi friend have an older brother that fought side by side with kurds as a peshmerga fighter for 8 years against Saddam.

I dont care about the Italian policy. Are Italy some kind of rolemodel or authority in these matters?

Many of the countries in the Middle East (and Africa, for that matter) were formed under exactly such "theoretical" map-making exercises, with little regard as to realities. Sure you had a point there, somewhere.

Yes, but European colonialist countries have stopped those practices a long time ago.

I had a point and its right here.

Your point was that locals need to accept decisions made by outsiders decades ago as edicts and live with them?
It would seem not all people in the region see things this way, and of course, the argument is used only in some cases, not all.

A kurdish state has never existed before or after europeans entered the middle east.

I know this is off-topic. But you understand that if the kurds would use military force to make real territorial claims on parts of Iraq, Syria, Turkey and Iran to include the parts in a sovereign kurdish state it would unleash hell, I dont see any country backing the kurds on such a lunatic mission.

And Russia and China would put a veto in the UN security council against the kurds territorial claims to make this sovereign state, not that it even matters in this case.

Have you ever wondered why USA liberates/brings democracy/helps supposedly freedom fighters/invades/occupies/topples left-leaning democratically elected presidents and PM's to install dictators or more 'suitable' leaders/bombs so many countries post-WW2 but doesnt do more than threathening and putting sanctions on Iran? USA doesnt even try proxy-wars inside Iran.

Its because Iran is a country that you dont want to invade. Conventional warfare/proxy-war using "freedom fighters" inside Iran is only something a lunatic like Saddam would pursue.

Yes, USA and Israel can bomb Iran to pieces but that isnt something they would pursue. Turkey is a US strong ally with a strong military and they are far from kurd-friendly and a much more important player than the kurds.

What the European colonialists did was wrong then. If locals would do it now they would also be wrong. You cant make claims on parts of a sovereign country when your "country" never have existed.

By the way, big parts of what was left of the Ottoman empire which the british took was a borderless mess. The arabs didnt even know the concept of the modern national sovereign state. Its history, lets focus on how things work today. Edited February 6, 2015 by Scott

[Steely Dan]

Excuse me, but that's very arrogant. Who are YOU to dictate the immigration policies of sovereign nations? If there is ever a Kurdistan and there might be one someday, would it be unreasonable for them to welcome Kurds from all over to be citizens there if they choose? Lots of countries do similar things. For example if you have Italian ancestors there is a path towards Italian citizenship, last time I checked anyway.

Well I dont agree with your example: The kurds. The kurds have no right to steal parts of Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran even though there are areas in these countries with kurdish majorities.

Kurdistan have never existed. Just because Britain mapped a theoretical Kurdistan doesnt mean that the theoretical map is anything but a theoretical map made by a country that at that time were a colonial country that used the globe as a drawing board for their colonial and imperialist actions.

Kurdistan is just a name used to say that an region has a majority of kurds or as a provincial name, nothing else.

Kurds have no birthright to move to a theoretical country that never should become reality.

Off topic, the kurds in the autonomous kurdish region in Iraq are kicking out turkmens, christians and arabs and importing iraqi kurds to oil rich areas and they got good oil deal with the US that they dont want to share in a fair way.

And dont tell me Im wrong. I have christian and kurdish friends from Erbil. A good friend was a kurdish peshmerga fighter, my christian Iraqi friend have an older brother that fought side by side with kurds as a peshmerga fighter for 8 years against Saddam.

I dont care about the Italian policy. Are Italy some kind of rolemodel or authority in these matters?

Many of the countries in the Middle East (and Africa, for that matter) were formed under exactly such "theoretical" map-making exercises, with little regard as to realities. Sure you had a point there, somewhere.

Yes, but European colonialist countries have stopped those practices a long time ago.

I had a point and its right here.

Your point was that locals need to accept decisions made by outsiders decades ago as edicts and live with them?
It would seem not all people in the region see things this way, and of course, the argument is used only in some cases, not all.

A kurdish state has never existed before or after europeans entered the middle east.

I know this is off-topic. But you understand that if the kurds would use military force to make real territorial claims on parts of Iraq, Syria, Turkey and Iran and to include the parts in a sovereign kurdish state it would unleash hell, I dont see any country backing the kurds on such a lunatic mission.

And Russia and China would put a veto in the UN security council against the kurds territorial claims to make this sovereign state, not that it even matters in this case.

Have you ever wondered why USA liberates/brings democracy/helps supposedly freedom fighters/invades/occupies/topples left-leaning democratically elected presidents and PM's to install dictators or more 'suitable' leaders/bombs so many countries post-WW2 but doesnt do more than threathening and putting sanctions on Iran? USA doesnt even try proxy-wars inside Iran.

Its because Iran is a country that isnt easy to conquer.

Yes, USA and Israel can bomb Iran to pieces but that isnt something they would pursue. Turkey is a US strong ally with a strong military and they are far from kurd-friendly and a much more important player than the kurds.

What the European colonialists did was wrong then. If locals would do it now they would also be wrong. You cant make claims on parts of a sovereign country when your "country" never have existed.

By the way, big parts of what was left of the Ottoman empire which the british took was a borderless mess. The arabs didnt even know the concept of the modern national sovereign state. Its history, lets focus on how things work today.

You wrote

'The Arabs didn't even know the concept of the modern national sovereign state.'

Until of course one was concocted out of thin air to give the Arabs living in British mandate Palestine a false sense of perpetual grievance; which extends to those who have never even set foot in the place.

[BKKBobby]

Excuse me, but that's very arrogant. Who are YOU to dictate the immigration policies of sovereign nations? If there is ever a Kurdistan and there might be one someday, would it be unreasonable for them to welcome Kurds from all over to be citizens there if they choose? Lots of countries do similar things. For example if you have Italian ancestors there is a path towards Italian citizenship, last time I checked anyway.

Well I dont agree with your example: The kurds. The kurds have no right to steal parts of Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran even though there are areas in these countries with kurdish majorities.

Kurdistan have never existed. Just because Britain mapped a theoretical Kurdistan doesnt mean that the theoretical map is anything but a theoretical map made by a country that at that time were a colonial country that used the globe as a drawing board for their colonial and imperialist actions.

Kurdistan is just a name used to say that an region has a majority of kurds or as a provincial name, nothing else.

Kurds have no birthright to move to a theoretical country that never should become reality.

Off topic, the kurds in the autonomous kurdish region in Iraq are kicking out turkmens, christians and arabs and importing iraqi kurds to oil rich areas and they got good oil deal with the US that they dont want to share in a fair way.

And dont tell me Im wrong. I have christian and kurdish friends from Erbil. A good friend was a kurdish peshmerga fighter, my christian Iraqi friend have an older brother that fought side by side with kurds as a peshmerga fighter for 8 years against Saddam.

I dont care about the Italian policy. Are Italy some kind of rolemodel or authority in these matters?

Many of the countries in the Middle East (and Africa, for that matter) were formed under exactly such "theoretical" map-making exercises, with little regard as to realities. Sure you had a point there, somewhere.

Yes, but European colonialist countries have stopped those practices a long time ago.

I had a point and its right here.

Your point was that locals need to accept decisions made by outsiders decades ago as edicts and live with them?
It would seem not all people in the region see things this way, and of course, the argument is used only in some cases, not all.

A kurdish state has never existed before or after europeans entered the middle east.

I know this is off-topic. But you understand that if the kurds would use military force to make real territorial claims on parts of Iraq, Syria, Turkey and Iran and to include the parts in a sovereign kurdish state it would unleash hell, I dont see any country backing the kurds on such a lunatic mission.

And Russia and China would put a veto in the UN security council against the kurds territorial claims to make this sovereign state, not that it even matters in this case.

Have you ever wondered why USA liberates/brings democracy/helps supposedly freedom fighters/invades/occupies/topples left-leaning democratically elected presidents and PM's to install dictators or more 'suitable' leaders/bombs so many countries post-WW2 but doesnt do more than threathening and putting sanctions on Iran? USA doesnt even try proxy-wars inside Iran.

Its because Iran is a country that isnt easy to conquer.

Yes, USA and Israel can bomb Iran to pieces but that isnt something they would pursue. Turkey is a US strong ally with a strong military and they are far from kurd-friendly and a much more important player than the kurds.

What the European colonialists did was wrong then. If locals would do it now they would also be wrong. You cant make claims on parts of a sovereign country when your "country" never have existed.

By the way, big parts of what was left of the Ottoman empire which the british took was a borderless mess. The arabs didnt even know the concept of the modern national sovereign state. Its history, lets focus on how things work today.

You wrote

'The Arabs didn't even know the concept of the modern national sovereign state.'

Until of course one was concocted out of thin air to give the Arabs living in British mandate Palestine a false sense of perpetual grievance; which extends to those who have never even set foot in the place.

Probably every arab country 'made' by the british including picking kings, sheiks, PM, presidents or whatever title they use are screw-ups. USA and its arab allies has 'helped' a bit to correct what became the future of Syria and Iraq. I dont want to evaluate if Saddam were and Assad are better or worse than ISIS...

If the british thought about the locals instead of their interests in the region the events in these countries might very well have unfolded atleast a little bit better.

I dont side with 'palestinians', jews, 'Palestine', or Israel.

But im against building a sovereign Kurdish state today by stealing parts of Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey.

[Jingthing]

Palestine should have a state (roughly west bank and gaza). But they shouldn't have Israel which is what they clearly want. So the conflict continues ... perhaps indefinitely.

[Ulysses G.]

Palestine should have a state (roughly west bank and gaza). But they shouldn't have Israel which is what they clearly want. So the conflict continues ... perhaps indefinitely.

The Palestinian Arabs keep turning down chances for their own state. It is time for them to take responsibility for their own mistakes.

[Ulysses G.]

The Nazis put innocent people in concentration camps and murdered them wholesale for no reason other than their religion.

Israel let the Palestinians have land to rule themselves in Gaza. They destroyed the infrastructure and ran out and elected terrorists to govern them. They planted bombs in Israel and shot many thousands of rockets at civilians. Any restrictions are the Palestinians own fault. There IS NO similarity between Nazi and Israel behavior to the rational mind.

I can't sit here and just read stupid comments!

Israel would NEVER ever get away whit this if it was not for WWII. The Jews and the Palestinians where given land (from what was then an British colony) the Israel occupied the land of the Palestinians.

And you are talking about terrorists, give the Palestinians modern arms like tanks, helicopters and real SAM and then see if Israel continues to attack.

You don't seem to have any problem making such comments.

There was no "land of the Palestinians". There was never an Arab country with that name and very few Arabs living in the area called Palestine owned any land. It was owned by absentee landlords in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo who were quite happy to sell it to Jews for inflated prices.

The only reason that Israel "got away" with anything is that they won a bunch of wars, declared by the Arabs. The Palestinians could not beat Israel when they had 5 Arab armies helping them, so your claim is silly.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[BKKBobby]

Excuse me, but that's very arrogant. Who are YOU to dictate the immigration policies of sovereign nations? If there is ever a Kurdistan and there might be one someday, would it be unreasonable for them to welcome Kurds from all over to be citizens there if they choose? Lots of countries do similar things. For example if you have Italian ancestors there is a path towards Italian citizenship, last time I checked anyway.

Well I dont agree with your example: The kurds. The kurds have no right to steal parts of Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran even though there are areas in these countries with kurdish majorities.

Kurdistan have never existed. Just because Britain mapped a theoretical Kurdistan doesnt mean that the theoretical map is anything but a theoretical map made by a country that at that time were a colonial country that used the globe as a drawing board for their colonial and imperialist actions.

Kurdistan is just a name used to say that an region has a majority of kurds or as a provincial name, nothing else.

Kurds have no birthright to move to a theoretical country that never should become reality.

Off topic, the kurds in the autonomous kurdish region in Iraq are kicking out turkmens, christians and arabs and importing iraqi kurds to oil rich areas and they got good oil deal with the US that they dont want to share in a fair way.

And dont tell me Im wrong. I have christian and kurdish friends from Erbil. A good friend was a kurdish peshmerga fighter, my christian Iraqi friend have an older brother that fought side by side with kurds as a peshmerga fighter for 8 years against Saddam.

I dont care about the Italian policy. Are Italy some kind of rolemodel or authority in these matters?

Many of the countries in the Middle East (and Africa, for that matter) were formed under exactly such "theoretical" map-making exercises, with little regard as to realities. Sure you had a point there, somewhere.

Yes, but European colonialist countries have stopped those practices a long time ago.

I had a point and its right here.

Your point was that locals need to accept decisions made by outsiders decades ago as edicts and live with them?
It would seem not all people in the region see things this way, and of course, the argument is used only in some cases, not all.

I get your point. I guess it makes this issue a lot more difficult to resolve. The more you dig the more questions comes up...

[Jay Sata]

The Nazis put innocent people in concentration camps and murdered them wholesale for no reason other than their religion.

Israel let the Palestinians have land to rule themselves in Gaza. They destroyed the infrastructure and ran out and elected terrorists to govern them. They planted bombs in Israel and shot many thousands of rockets at civilians. Any restrictions are the Palestinians own fault. There IS NO similarity between Nazi and Israel behavior to the rational mind.

I can't sit here and just read stupid comments!

Israel would NEVER ever get away whit this if it was not for WWII. The Jews and the Palestinians where given land (from what was then an British colony) the Israel occupied the land of the Palestinians.

And you are talking about terrorists, give the Palestinians modern arms like tanks, helicopters and real SAM and then see if Israel continues to attack.

You don't seem to have any problem making such comments.

There was no "land of the Palestinians". There was never an Arab country with that name and very few Arabs living in the area called Palestine owned any land. It was owned by absentee landlords in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo who were quite happy to sell it to Jews for inflated prices.

The only reason that Israel "got away" with anything is that they won a bunch of wars, declared by the Arabs. The Palestinians could not beat Israel when they had 5 Arab armies helping them, so your claim is silly.

If it was called Palestine then the people living there must have been Palestinians.

There was no Israeli state until 1948 when it was formed by immigrant settlers from Europe.

[Ulysses G.]

Wrong. Why do so many posters just make things up? It was a geographical area with no central government until the Brits took over. If anything, they would have been Muslim citizens of the whole Ottoman Empire - the Muslim Millet. There was also a Jewish and Christian Millet as well as others.

Israel was formed of all kinds of Jews, including many whose families had liven in the area for over 3,000 years.

There were plenty of more recent immigrants to the area of Palestine amongst both Arabs and Jews. BOTH sides were mostly immigrants. In fact, during the British Mandate, Jews were called "Palestinians" and Arabs were called "Arabs." The Arabs did not start calling themselves "Palestinians" until they lost, yet another, war in 1967.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[DPIZZA]

6,000,000 lives taken for no reason whatsoever! And you are talking about "pulling the holocaust card for sympathy".

I perceive disdain and scepticism in your wording.

If I were a victim or a relative of a victim - I would demand more than sympathy!

And I deny Germany the right to have sceptical view of Israel! They can only feel guilt!

Thanks for providing such a clear example of why sympathy is evaporating. Modern Germans have nothing to do with what happened and should put an end to the 'extortion racket' that the Holocaust Industry has become. Der Spiegel mentions this... http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/new-wave-of-shoah-claims-holocaust-groups-demand-more-compensation-from-germany-a-515984.html

'...there is another group of plaintiffs who are eyed with suspicion, even by Israeli critics of past compensation programs. These are the children of Holocaust survivors, the so-called second generation. Psychologists assume that some of them -- estimates put the proportion at between 5 and 10 percent -- have literally inherited the trauma of their parents. A class action suit has been filed against Germany on behalf of these second-generation survivors -- something that the author Teitelbaum calls a "scandal" that trivializes the suffering of actual survivors.'

and the all-time classic... "just give us the money."

The financial misuse of this event is bad enough but the political misuse is legion. This, from Haaretz, talks about Netenyahu but the same principle applies to others... http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/strenger-than-fiction/netanyahu-must-stop-misusing-the-holocaust-1.409191

'...stop using it as a trump card to score political points. Doing so cheapens the Holocaust; it clouds the mind, and it distorts historical and political judgment.'

Some forum members may wish to take note.

Believe it or not, those people who been in the concentration camps have a lot of psychological problems (who wouldnt?) and ofcourse those problems effects their relationships, especially with their close relative.

I personally know people like that, and their minds are not 100%. Not only they affect their family but all those surrounding them.

The question if their sons deserve a compensation that is a different question. It should be checked according to previous precedence in German law system in other cases.

Just know that not all holocaust survivors claimed the compensations that they do deserve from the Germans. Many of them do not want ANY connection with the Germans and definitely not their money!

I personally knew one guy that all his family, village and possessions were gone in the holocaust. he never asked a penny from the Germans, and even never bought any device manufactured in Germany, for the rest of his life.

Those "class action suits" filed are usually the work of lawyers, who did a living from filing compensation suits, and realize that their clients and income are dying off, and soon non will stay.

From that to starting to hate those holocaust survivors, or even Israel is a big leap! possible only by people of no conscience at all, same as those bastard ISIS animals...

[FritsSikkink]

The Nazis put innocent people in concentration camps and murdered them wholesale for no reason other than their religion.

Israel let the Palestinians have land to rule themselves in Gaza. They destroyed the infrastructure and ran out and elected terrorists to govern them. They planted bombs in Israel and shot many thousands of rockets at civilians. Any restrictions are the Palestinians own fault. There IS NO similarity between Nazi and Israel behavior to the rational mind.

Here an Israeli newspaper which gives you better inside information:

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.640830

Edited February 6, 2015 by FritsSikkink

[Jingthing]

The Nazis put innocent people in concentration camps and murdered them wholesale for no reason other than their religion.

Israel let the Palestinians have land to rule themselves in Gaza. They destroyed the infrastructure and ran out and elected terrorists to govern them. They planted bombs in Israel and shot many thousands of rockets at civilians. Any restrictions are the Palestinians own fault. There IS NO similarity between Nazi and Israel behavior to the rational mind.

Here an Israeli newspaper which gives you better inside information:

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.640830

Israel is a democracy with a free press. Haaretz represents left wing Israeli opinion ... a minority viewpoint in Israel. Try having a dissenting anti-government opinion in Gaza ... for the hours or days before you're murdered.

[DPIZZA]

If you believe that Jews anywhere in the world have an automatic right [some religious nut jobs say god given right] to live in Israel simply because they have a Jewish grandmother or have converted to Judaism, while Palestinians who were actually born there do not, then you are a Zionist.

Stop the foolishness. Israel is a sovereign country and it is up to them who they allow to become citizens - not those of your ilk. It is not up to you or the radical Muslims whose violent behavior and terrorist attacks you constantly make excuses and justifications for.

Sovereign country or not, Israel clearly employs a racist/religionist supremacist criterion for citizenship. Whereas Israeli Arabs are not even allowed to marry Palestinians from the West Bank even after security vetting. Gotta maintain racial superiority eh.

Perhaps that’s why modern Germans find fault with Israel. They experienced enough of that sort of attitude in their own history.

Again you guys contradict yourselves:

How can it be that Israel employs a racist policy, if according to you, the Jews are not really descendants of the Jews, and if so, they are from different races, according to their country of origin?

How can it be that a Jew from Iraq (which is Arab according to your method) is racially superior according to Israeli laws than an Israeli Arab?

Or how can it be that a Yemeni has the same racial privileges as a Jew from Poland (who is Khazar by your twisted understanding)?

You cant also claim that the Jews are not the original Jews, and also claim that Israel is racist- dont eat the whole cake and leave it whole!

Does the Israelis have genetic testings to decide who is of what race?

I think it is your twisted world view that is racist here...

What a demagogue you are! Why dont you tell everyone why Israel has this law, which was legislated only in 2003?!?

Let me do the honor: before 2003 Israel allowed anyone including Arabs from any country to get visas or citizenship for family reunions, and amazingly enough, the family reunions by Arab or Druze from Golan Heights were NEVER in the Arab country, but always they chose to unite in Israel (wonder why if they are treated so bad here, huh?).

But on March 2002 there was a suicide terror attack in Israel in which 15 Israelis were killed and 40 injured(some of them Arab Israelis) as a part of a deadly terror wave of suicide attacks done by Hamas in those years. It turned out the terrorist who blew himself was from the west bank, and he had Israeli I.D card, which he ABUSED to escape security measures taken that time. It also turned out that he got the I.D. due to his mother's family reunion with an Israeli Arab.

So as a measure to prevent such disasters in the future, the law states that family reunion with citizens of hostile countries or territories is not allowed. It was a law legislated for SECURITY REASONS, not racial reasons.

The list of the hostile countries reads: Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Gaza strip and West Bank. So if some Arab in Israel wants to marry an Egyptian or Jordanian beauty, or even Saudi, there is no law forbidding it. Now how can that be racial, unless Jordanians and Egyptians are not the same race as Lebanese or Syrians...

Furthermore, there are many exceptions for this law, like in case of special humanitarian cases, all those who got permissions or applied previous to 2002, couples and families of Israeli citizens and residents whom their wives are older than 25, or husbands older than 35, etc...

This law is not different from laws now being legislated in the west for combating ISIS terrorist coming back home from Syria and Iraq, like detaining and confiscating passports of people landing from Iraq and Syria!

[mitsubishi]

.The Germans started a war,and lost.

No they didn't! They had land stolen from them at Versaille in 1919! They were sick of having their people killed by the poles (see the Bromberg Massacre) and decided to retake Eastern Prussia, their land in Bohemia and joined with Austria (who wanted to join them).

It was Britain that declared war on Germany, NOT the other way around!

Jews weren't the backbone either! I don't where you pulled that from, they were a tiny minority!

[DPIZZA]

Sovereign country or not, Israel clearly employs a racist/religionist supremacist criterion for citizenship.

Israel is a Jewish state and can grant citizenship to who they like and while the Arab League supports the right of any Arab to become citizens of any Arab country, they have a single exception: Palestinians. Why do you say nothing about this hypocrisy?

The marriage restriction in Israel is not limited to Israeli Arabs. It applies to Jews as well and exemptions can be granted for Palestinian men over the age of 35, or women over 25. As one judge said: "Human rights are not a prescription for national suicide. As long as the Palestinians embrace terrorism, Israel has the right to protect themselves from it.

So even more racial stereotyping... the Jewish Israeli judge and you claim ALL Palestinians are terrorists.

Didn’t the Nazis profile ALL Jews in the same way as “enemies of the state”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Themes_in_Nazi_propaganda#Jews

...I am astounded at the irony in your statement. And you wonder why modern Germans have little respect for Israel and its apologists.

The reason that the Germans profile ALL Jews in the same way had no logical or statistical reasoning behind it!

I cant remember Jews blowing up buses in Berlin, or cutting of the heads of Germans, or doing anything as bad as Muslims doing today...

But today there is a very good reason for religious profiling (not stereotyping), because surely not all Muslims are terrorist, but you cant argue with the facts when i say that 96% of terrorists ARE Muslims!

So if you are so called "moderate Muslim", instead trying to "make a spin" on the Jewish holocaust, why not try to stop your brothers from doing this evil things, and tell them:" you guys making us look bad, stop it!"

[DPIZZA]

As usual, you ignore Arab policies and zero in on the Jewish state for hateful rants. Palestinians are not allowed to become citizens of Arab countries. Palestinians face severe travel restrictions in the Arab world. They do not receive passports and their travel documents are only accepted by a few countries. Palestinians cannot vote or run for office in national elections. Children born to Palestinians do not get citizenship Arab countries either, which violates Article 7 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child. What utter hypocrisy ignoring Arab restrictions on other Arabs.

That's because Palestinians already have a home to go to...it's called Palestine...currently occupied by Zionists.

oh i see...So because you believe the Palestinians "supposedly" have a home to go, so we need to keep them in inhuman conditions, deprive them of their human rights, deprive them of living in honor and decency, deprive them of education, land or house ownership, and state medical cares...

Wow you guys really love the Palestinians dont you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFN-yrecx1c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmK9WwtpVlM

LOVE is a strange notion in the Muslim world:

"The Arab states LOVE the Palestinians, who LOVE death as much as Israelis LOVE life"...

You know what? if you guys LOVE them so much maybe you should keep them, you deserve each other...

[DPIZZA]

As usual, you ignore Arab policies and zero in on the Jewish state for hateful rants. Palestinians are not allowed to become citizens of Arab countries. Palestinians face severe travel restrictions in the Arab world. They do not receive passports and their travel documents are only accepted by a few countries. Palestinians cannot vote or run for office in national elections. Children born to Palestinians do not get citizenship Arab countries either, which violates Article 7 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child. What utter hypocrisy ignoring Arab restrictions on other Arabs.

That's because Palestinians already have a home to go to...it's called Palestine...currently occupied by Zionists.

oh i see...So because you believe the Palestinians "supposedly" have a home to go, so we need to keep them in inhuman conditions, deprive them of their human rights, deprive them of living in honor and decency, deprive them of education, land or house ownership, and state medical cares...

Wow you guys really love the Palestinians dont you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFN-yrecx1c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmK9WwtpVlM

LOVE is a strange notion in the Muslim world:

"The Arab states LOVE the Palestinians, who LOVE death as much as Israelis LOVE life"...

You know what? if you guys LOVE them so much maybe you should keep them, you deserve each other...

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[DPIZZA]

More hypocrisy. Arabs are allowed to emigrate to other Arab countries, no matter where their "home" is, unless they are Palestinians. They are unwanted pawns that are treated much worse by their own people than Israel.

Their home is in Palestine, but they can't be absent for too long, because Israel will revoke their right of residency... a subtle form of more ethnic cleansing. But of course a Jew who has never set eyes on the place can come and go as he pleases, maintaining as many passports as he likes.

More Israeli apartheid hypocrisy.

Israel admits it revoked residency rights of a quarter million Palestinians

Many of those prevented from returning were students or young professionals, working aboard to support their families.

Israel stripped more than 100,000 residents of Gaza and some 140,000 residents of the West Bank of their residency rights during the 27 years between its conquest of the territories in 1967 and the establishment of the Palestinian Authority in 1994.

As a result, close to 250,000 Palestinians who left the territories were barred from ever returning.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-admits-it-revoked-residency-rights-of-a-quarter-million-palestinians-1.435778

In my book that is ethnic cleansing.

Oh, i see, this is the kind of Ethnic Cleansing that you were talking about?

So this is why you compare the Jews to the Nazis?!?!

I will not even try to go in length to explain why this is definitely NOTHING as the Nazis did to the Jews.

Every normal human being and not some sadistic Islamic Jihadist Hamas/ISIS/Hezbollah/ Nazi/ Antisemites (the Jews hating kind) who know just a little about the Nazi horrors, can understand the BIG difference.

Instead i will address your claims:

First of all, you should remember that the Haaretz is a far left news paper publication in Israel, who together with the far left, see its members increasingly dwindling in recent years, due to the awakening of many people in Israel, who unfortunately see that there isnt a real peace partner on the other size (also due to the passing of Yoram Kanyuk, leading writer).

I do not claim that they post lies, but the way they interpret the information and taking it out of focus or context to support their political agenda is definitely annoying.

So if we go back to your claim here, that Israel is deliberately cancels ONLY Palestinians residencies rights. But the truth is that it is a law in Israel for ALL residents of the country, that if they do not stay in Israel after 7 years, they loose their residency!

They can be Philippines, Druze, Christians, Bahai's it doesnt matter!

Also, it is true to Israeli citizens, who stay longer than 7 years abroad, they loose their permanent resident status, which cancels their duty to pay taxes, but also their right for social security and governmental medical insurances.

There are many definitions of residency for use by interior ministry, social security, etc...

Further, if you read the article it contradicts AGAIN your main assumption that Israel is ethnically cleansing the Palestinians:

"...Given that Gaza's population has a natural growth rate of 3.3 percent a year..."!

You know what it means? a quick search will show you its an amazing! growth rate, its 2 times bigger than the highest growth rate in Europe, which is Ireland with 1.77%! Some nations have a NEGATIVE grown rate like Germany, Hungary, Bulgaria, Czech, etc...

Furthermore, on the same article it says:" there are various ways for Palestinians to get their residency restored, and in fact, some of those Gazans who lost their residency rights later regained them. "

So it is not a clear cut case of deportation, and if someone really wants to get his residency back, and has the legal justification, he can do it!

And my claim is only being strengthen by the following statement: "Erekat said that having learned from their experience, he was careful to return to the West Bank periodically while he was studying abroad, so as to keep his residency permit valid."

Here is a PLO leader who followed the regulations, and had no problem keeping his residency!

and also:

"several thousands who were affiliated with the PA were granted the right to return in 1994; still other Palestinians have since been allowed to return for a variety of reasons."

So here also goes your assumption that ONLY Jews are granted the right of return, and technically, Israel already given that right to some Palestinians.

Also there is no mention of the reasons each and one of the cases lost his status, but it just makes you wonder what part of them were engaged in actions against the state of Israel?

According to the article, it is easier to be a resident in Israel than in Thailand, but you guys still stay here right?

"Palestinians received a special permit valid for three years. The permit could be renewed three times, each time for one year."

[DPIZZA]

Sovereign country or not, Israel clearly employs a racist/religionist supremacist criterion for citizenship.

Israel is a Jewish state and can grant citizenship to who they like and while the Arab League supports the right of any Arab to become citizens of any Arab country, they have a single exception: Palestinians. Why do you say nothing about this hypocrisy?

The marriage restriction in Israel is not limited to Israeli Arabs. It applies to Jews as well and exemptions can be granted for Palestinian men over the age of 35, or women over 25. As one judge said: "Human rights are not a prescription for national suicide. As long as the Palestinians embrace terrorism, Israel has the right to protect themselves from it.

So even more racial stereotyping... the Jewish Israeli judge and you claim ALL Palestinians are terrorists.

Didn’t the Nazis profile ALL Jews in the same way as “enemies of the state”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Themes_in_Nazi_propaganda#Jews

...I am astounded at the irony in your statement. And you wonder why modern Germans have little respect for Israel and its apologists.

I didn't know about the Arab prohibition against Palestinians.......is it perhaps in place because Palestinians as a group are actually the closest thing to a true Semite that exists in the world?

Those poor downtrodden people! Hated and discriminated against by Israel, discriminated against by the whole of right wing America, and also discriminated against by Arabs. So sad.

Seastallion,

I'm actually surprised you didnt know about it.

This also can show you that there might be other facts that you are not aware of concerning this conflict.

But more important, this fact doesnt fit your world view of the conflict:

Why does those who criticize Israel for their mistreatment of the Palestinians (mainly the Arab world), mistreat the

Palestinians as well?

Does it makes sense to you? no it doesnt.

It definitely shows that those who criticize Israel are hypocrites, Unless you also believe that since the Palestinians "should return to Palestine/ Israel they dont need to live in decency somewhere else" crap...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFN-yrecx1c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmK9WwtpVlM

Palestinians are not the closest thing to Semites, not more than the Arabs in other Arab countries. Thats not the real reason.

The real reason is that those Arab countries use the Palestinians as a political pawn, to pressure Israel and the international community, as to say: look at those poor Palestinians situation, it is all Israel's fault. They should return to their lands in Israel".

They know that Israel cant contain 4.5+ million Palestinians and still stay a democracy, or Jewish in anyway.

Look at what happens to minorities in the Middle East at this same moment i'm writing these words:

Kurdish, Yezidies and Shiite Muslims being annihilated by ISIS in Iraq...

Druze, Christians, Aramies being annihilated by Al-Quida in Syria...

In Lebanon constant fighting between Sunnies and Shiites backed by Hezbollah...

In Sudan Africans driven out of their lands by Islamist, etc, etc...

What do you think would happen to the Jews if they become a minority in their country?

If you really care for the Palestinians, and hope to solve this conflict, you have to realize this truth, which still affects the conflict today:

It were the Arab league coalition who called the Palestinian to leave Israel in 1948, and its them who are interested in keeping the conflict alive by perpetuating their miserable situation.

Dont believe me, check the facts, look at these videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn4r7ZjG9Nc&feature=channel_video_title

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1THQ94yF1Ng&NR=1

Those same people also later in their audacity expelled the Arab Jews from their countries, adding 800,000 refugees to the story:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=KH8RL2XRr48

[DPIZZA]

Kingsley's point is that Europe, in general, distanced itself from the association with the victims. It happened to the Jews. It did not happen to Europeans, to "our" citizens, to "our" people. The grieving process he is referring to is more along the lines of the way grief and coping with grief are dealt with in many psychological models. Kingsley words had more to do with Europe essentially skipping that grieving phase, and not with a notion that there should be continues grieving. This too, was pretty clear from the interview. It is not quite the same thing as having outer manifestation of remembrance such as museums, memorials and payments. Remembering is one thing, grieving and closure are something else. If you are unfamiliar with this ideas - have a read.

The people's of Europe at that time were not steeped in 'psycho-babble' and did not give the same weight to feelings and emotions as we do today. If they grieved at all, they grieved for their own dead, when they weren't struggling just to survive.

To try and instil guilt into generations of Germans, or anyone else for that matter, for an event they were not responsible for, is a sure recipe for resentment. Don't your psychological models tell you that? This issue has been raised before... http://forward.com/articles/151531/does-education-fuel-anti-semitism/

'Holocaust education is inadvertently fueling German anti-Semitism, making it worse.'

'Sixty-seven percent of Germans surveyed by researchers from Bielefeld University in 2008 found it “annoying that Germans are still held responsible for crimes against the Jews.”

You know what Choctastic, forget the BS! it is obvious you just trying to win the argument...

I want to talk to you about what is really important:

I dont know if the European grieved or not like Ben Kingsley says, but the important thing is did they learn the lesson? will they do it again?

and unfortunately, as it looks today, the answer is no to the first, and i believe it will be yes for the second.

The Jewish issue is important, but it is not the big picture here. The big picture here is that a European white nations murdered 6,000,000 people who were in every aspect citizens in their countries, just because they were a minority.

why i say they will do it again:

1. Even as we speak minorities being annihilated in the world today, and there were more than enough to prove that Europe doesnt give a damn: in Cambodia, in Iraq, in Syria, in Sudan, in Nigeria, in Rwanda, etc...

The Europeans should make sure that it will NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN, PERIOD! not try some mock trials later.

2. There is a strong Antisemite wave today as there was in the 1930's.

3. There is an economic crisis looming in the distance.

4. Today the UN who which suppose to be the tool to stop such occurrences is ruled by undemocratic, dictatorial regimes, who try to make a spin on the subject, and blame the Jews for doing the same to the Palestinians, as a way to decrease the memory of the holocaust. Some even go further and claim it never existed, like the Iranians and their friends.

There are so many examples to what i say, but i dont have time to mention them.

I only tell you my personal experience right here in Thailand:

If i have to stop 3 young Germans here in Thailand from doing the "Zig Heil" solute here in a club, it says everything!

If i see people buying swastikas and shirts with Hitler, it says a lot (dont start with they dont know, because some of them do, and i know it for fact).

So there you have it.

[DPIZZA]

Just a small example, i never heard of any army in the world sending sms messages to the civilians in the area that they going to bomb the area, or dropping leaflets with warnings before bombing!

Another way to terrorize. Drop warning leaflets on those who have no place to hide.

what?!?!

are you kidding me?

The poor Palis again! OMG, they probably suffered from multiple paper cuts!

Those evil zionists again...

It only shows that in your twisted logic you can turn anything the Israelis does to evil.

That is exactly why the Israelis should ignore opinions like you have and keep doing the best thing for their own security and survival, because it doesnt matter what they do, the haters will turn it against them!

The IDF really tried to minimize casualties by noting the civilians that the area was going to be bombed by leaflets or mobile.

It doesnt make sense if you are doing an ethnic cleansing like you and the others claimed, to warn the "ethnic group" that you going to attack!

And yes, they had other areas to escape to, maybe it wasnt a perfect solution, but yeah, its the best thing anyone ever done before bombing in the history of armed conflicts...and that is the correct comparison!

[DPIZZA]

A lot of brainwash is fed to world population about Palestinian terrorists. How about a freedom fighters? Israelis doing ethnic cleansing, killing Palestinian adult and children, grabbing illegally their houses and land, doing what not even apartheid did in S.Africa. they know what Germans to them. Why to replicate the crimes they are so familiar with? Freedom fighters are not terrorists, not the criminals. What venue they are left with fighting for their stolen rights? All countries in the Second World War were fighting Germans to get freedom, however, Germans call them terrorists. This same should apply to everybody with no exception because they are Jews. This is clearly a double standard. Jews are the chosen race and better and the rest of the world just goim, as Spinoza said : ..."Spinoza in an oft-cited passage in his Theologico-Political Treatise: “That they [the Jews] are preserved largely through the hatred of other nations is demonstrated by historical fact.”

Do you want to add anything to it, or this is just enough?

Add? i want to show you how false this thing you wrote is!

I agree with 1 thing, there is a lot of brainwashing about the Palestinians, of being a nation of humanists who just being terrorized by Israel, thats the real brainwash!

You claim that Israel is doing an ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians:

Since i wanted it to be clear for both of us what we are talking about, i checked the definition of the term:

" Ethnic Cleansing: the MASS expulsion or killing of members of an unwanted ethnic or religious group in a society."

And then i thought to myself that you are already too far out there to really listen to my arguments so i thought: how can we logically test this assumption of yours? and then i got it!

If Israel is ethnically cleansing Palestinians then there should be a massive decline in their population, or at least some decline or no growth. Logical?

So i checked the census numbers, and guess what?

Not only there is no decline, but it is ONE OF THE FASTEST GROWING POPULATIONS IN THE WORLD!":

According to a 2008 article in The Guardian, using PCBS census figures, the Palestinian territories have one of the fastest growing populations in the world, with numbers surging 30% in the past decade (2008). There were 3.76 million Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, up from 2.89 million 10 years earlier.

According to the U.S. Census, population growth mid-1990-2008 in Gaza and West Bank was 106% from 1.9 million (1990) to 3.9 million persons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Palestinian_territories

You might say that they are slowly starving to death by Israel, but guess what? i checked that too...

According to the economist: THE PALESTINIANS ARE 8'th IN OBESITY IN THE WORLD!"

check this link:

http://vladtepesblog.com/2010/04/03/starving-palestinians/

i would have addressed any word of lie in your comment, but i dont have time for that!

just a final word about Freedom Fighters: freedom fighters do not blow themselves up on buses full of women and children, they fight soldiers! freedom fighters do not sneak at night to houses to smash babies heads in their cradle!

Freedom fighters do not declare their intention is to destroy another nation!

Hamas doesnt want only Gaza which they have already. they say it all the time: they will not stop until all Palestine will be liberated, which means ALL OF ISRAEL, and the JEWS TO THE SEA!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i08L09V0_sg

here is how they educat their children:

About population growth...

From what ive understood Israel imported massive amounts of Russians, and not all of them are really jews. By doing this you change the demographics in favor of non-arabs since the government gets more power.

Maybe, just maybe Israel keeps up with building settlements and making Gaza an open-air prison to squeeze out the arabs?

Maybe the long-term policy is to make the Israeli arabs become a part of the eastern neighbours of Israel?

I dont know.

BKKBobby,

The all idea of Israel was to have 1 small country in the world where Jews can live without persecutions. So the right of return for the Jews allows anyone who is Jewish to be a citizen of Israel.

It is true that many Russians immigrated to Israel, but it is also true that many Russians immigrated to the USA and elsewhere.

It was just a period of time, that Russia had serious economic crisis, and when economic crisis starts, also hatred of minorities starts.

Also, dont forget that in the past Russians couldnt migrate out of Russia. Some immigrants just do it for economic reasons i agree...

But how many of them were Jewish? I can tell you that the majority were Jewish.Of course there were some Russians who managed to abuse the system and fake documents, but you can be sure that the Orthodox Jewish Rabbis who check the validity of their claims tried very hard to prevent these cases. Some were kicked out after it was found they forged documents.

Also, there is still a live debate in Israel and between Jews, who is considered Jewish? The orthodox for example doesnt accept conversions to Judaism done by reformist Jews, which causes friction with US Jewish communities... Also if you are a secular Jew, are you considered a Jew, even you dont keep any of the traditions?

Well, the answer for that came actually from the Nazis, who considered anyone who had "Jewish Blood", even only a grandfather to be Jewish. So if someone like that can be persecuted for being Jewish, Israel should accept him as well, in my opinion.

The law at the moment is that a man is considered Jewish only if he has a Jewish mother.

But the thing that you need to know is that some of those Russian girls who werent Jewish, actually married Arabs, and some moved to Gaza or W.Bank. Do you hear anybody complaining that they are "not pure blood Palestinians"?