Tottenham Thread

[carmine]

I thought you was bored so again .....i ask zee questions!

So are you just going to stick with Soldado then.

Put up or shut up MrEd. Defoe's premier league stats please......

Goals in the past five seasons ?

Assists in the past five seasons ?

Chances created in the past five seasons ?

I've written Defoe's stats out in more readable form for you. (I hope )

His average for the last five seasons is one goal every 2.29 games, Not quite enough on the face of it to class him a twenty goals a season striker.....................but that doesn't tell the whole story. These figures only show appearances against goals, not minute on the pitch against goals. I would suggest Defoe has been substituted/come on as a substitute in a large proportion of those appearances. I haven't got the figures to hand but would suggest using minutes on the pitch instead of appearances would give him a goals ratio much, much closer to two. And, assuming the manager picked him week in week out, that would make him a twenty goals a season striker.

If his strike rate is good enough you can't blame Defoe if his lack of goals is down to the managers failure to pick him or keep him on the pitch. Interestingly, his strike rate over the last five years is actually better than his career average.

I would suggest Carmine that, making allowances for his restricted game time, over the last five years Defoe has been a lot closer to a 'twenty goals a season' striker than you thought he was.

As for goals per chances, assists, etc, etc, it's your player you're slagging off, so I suggest you come up with the figures to prove your point yourself. if you can't, don't want to, find it all too boring,etc, I would suggest that, once again, you're looking at history through those rose tinted spectacles of your's instead of the facts. .

Defoe's career average is just over one goal every 2.41 games..

Career statistics[edit]

As of 10 November 2013.

Club Season League FA Cup League Cup Europe Other^{[nb 2]}

Total Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals

Bournemouth (loan)

2000–01 29 18 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 31 19

Total 29 18 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 31 19

West Ham United

2000–01 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 2 1

2001–02 35 10 3 4 1 0 0 0 0 0 39 14

2002–03 38 8 2 2 2 1 0 0 0 0 42 11

2003–04 19 11 0 0 3 4 0 0 0 0 22 15

Total 93 29 5 6 7 6 0 0 0 0 105 41

Tottenham Hotspur

2003–04 15 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 15 7

2004–05 35 13 4 4 5 5 0 0 0 0 44 22

2005–06 36 9 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 38 9

2006–07 34 10 5 1 5 4 5 3 0 0 49 18

2007–08 19 4 2 0 5 1 5 3 0 0 31 8

Total 139 43 12 5 16 10 10 6 0 0 177 64

Portsmouth

2007–08 12 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 12 8

2008–09 19 7 0 0 0 0 4 2 1 0 24 9

Total 31 15 0 0 0 0 4 2 1 0 36 17

Tottenham Hotspur

2008–09 8 3 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 10 4

2009–10 34 18 7 5 2 1 0 0 0 0 43 24

2010–11 22 4 2 2 0 0 6 3 0 0 30 9

2011–12 25 11 6 3 1 0 6 3 0 0 38 17

2012–13 34 11 0 0 1 0 8 4 0 0 43 15

2013–14 8 0 0 0 2 2 5 7 0 0 15 9

Total 131 47 16 10 7 4 25 17 0 0 179 78

Career total 423 152 34 22 30 20 39 25 2 0 528 219

And about one goal every three appearances for England (although I suspect he's had even more substitute appearances for the National side).

International statistics[edit]

England national team

Year Apps Goals

2004 8 1

2005 7 0 1

2006 6 2

2007 5 0

2008 6 3

2009 6 5

2010 7 4

2011 1 0

2012 6 2

2013 3 2

Total 55 19

If you wish to do Ed's work at least do me the service of reading my question correctly. I wanted the stats for his "Spurs" games, not the rest which is irrelevant to whatever nonsense ed's trying to concoct.

Defoe's average for us is 2.78 with nothing else to offer, by way of assists, creating anything for anyone, tackling or tracking back.

Quite what else you lot are trying to prove is not clear. Should we be playing him to give vertically challenged players a chance or perhaps that you know full well your defense would just love us to play him next sunday.

[carmine]

Additionally, Defoe is a striker who has a low conversion rate at the best of times. But when he’s struggling he’ll spurn even the best chances, as he did on what should have been a tap-in goal against Aston Villa off a Gareth Bale cross. The best way to illustrate this is in the chart below. It shows the conversion rate (goals-to-shots ratio) of every Premier League striker with ten or more goals entering last weekend. The scale stretches from Defoe–a 10% conversion rate–to Frank Lampard–a 25% conversion rate, a number that is somewhat inflated by the number of goals he’s scored from the spot(4):

Too trigger happy - Possibly the biggest impediment in Defoe’s game is his over-eagerness to strike the ball whenever he sees the white posts in his peripheral vision. Jermian averages a shot roughly every 28.1 minutes, with a lot of them struck from outside the box. He often takes out his frustrations from fading in and out of games with an ill-advised pop at goal, resulting in a poor chance conversion rate of just 13% this season, down from his 22% of last season. Not only does this shoot on sight policy hinder Defoe’s progress into a top class finisher, he also hurts the team’s passing moves, more often than not opting to shoot in favour of passing to a teammate in a better position.

Not involved enough – Defoe lacks any sort of physical presence and so a physical battle in the air or down the channels often results in him losing the battle. Instead, Defoe likes to pull off the front of his defender and the 18-yard box early to allow him more time and space on the ball. Recently he has been very ineffective with this style of play though, he has had only 219 touches of the ball in 2013 thus far which is simply not enough. Most of these touches have not been meaningful and are usually him passing backwards. In order for Jermain to build a level of consistency in his performances again he must demand more of the ball and utilise his great dribbling ability to manoeuvre himself into better goal scoring positions on the pitch.

Did you pen all that yourself Alfieconn?

More evidence for you MM why you get limited response to your posts.

Alfie takes to time to produce facts to back up our opinions and you respond with that!

[BIGTOE3]

Additionally, Defoe is a striker who has a low conversion rate at the best of times. But when he’s struggling he’ll spurn even the best chances, as he did on what should have been a tap-in goal against Aston Villa off a Gareth Bale cross. The best way to illustrate this is in the chart below. It shows the conversion rate (goals-to-shots ratio) of every Premier League striker with ten or more goals entering last weekend. The scale stretches from Defoe–a 10% conversion rate–to Frank Lampard–a 25% conversion rate, a number that is somewhat inflated by the number of goals he’s scored from the spot(4):

Too trigger happy - Possibly the biggest impediment in Defoe’s game is his over-eagerness to strike the ball whenever he sees the white posts in his peripheral vision. Jermian averages a shot roughly every 28.1 minutes, with a lot of them struck from outside the box. He often takes out his frustrations from fading in and out of games with an ill-advised pop at goal, resulting in a poor chance conversion rate of just 13% this season, down from his 22% of last season. Not only does this shoot on sight policy hinder Defoe’s progress into a top class finisher, he also hurts the team’s passing moves, more often than not opting to shoot in favour of passing to a teammate in a better position.

Not involved enough – Defoe lacks any sort of physical presence and so a physical battle in the air or down the channels often results in him losing the battle. Instead, Defoe likes to pull off the front of his defender and the 18-yard box early to allow him more time and space on the ball. Recently he has been very ineffective with this style of play though, he has had only 219 touches of the ball in 2013 thus far which is simply not enough. Most of these touches have not been meaningful and are usually him passing backwards. In order for Jermain to build a level of consistency in his performances again he must demand more of the ball and utilise his great dribbling ability to manoeuvre himself into better goal scoring positions on the pitch.

Did you pen all that yourself Alfieconn?

More evidence for you MM why you get limited response to your posts.

Alfie takes to time to produce facts to back up our opinions and you respond with that!

As Alfie would say <deleted>

BT

[carmine]

Crickey Bigtoe, you don't think that someone taking the time to find info to answer and back up his opinion deserves a better response than that!!? I thought you were better than that.

[BIGTOE3]

Crickey Bigtoe, you don't think that someone taking the time to find info to answer and back up his opinion deserves a better response than that!!? I thought you were better than that.

I do think Carmine you have missed my Point…. That is what Alfie would have said !!!!! after MM's post.

Try and keep up please

BT

[sumrit]

I've written Defoe's stats out in more readable form for you. (I hope )

His average for the last five seasons is one goal every 2.29 games, Not quite enough on the face of it to class him a twenty goals a season striker.....................but that doesn't tell the whole story. These figures only show appearances against goals, not minute on the pitch against goals. I would suggest Defoe has been substituted/come on as a substitute in a large proportion of those appearances. I haven't got the figures to hand but would suggest using minutes on the pitch instead of appearances would give him a goals ratio much, much closer to two. And, assuming the manager picked him week in week out, that would make him a twenty goals a season striker.

If his strike rate is good enough you can't blame Defoe if his lack of goals is down to the managers failure to pick him or keep him on the pitch. Interestingly, his strike rate over the last five years is actually better than his career average.

I would suggest Carmine that, making allowances for his restricted game time, over the last five years Defoe has been a lot closer to a 'twenty goals a season' striker than you thought he was.

As for goals per chances, assists, etc, etc, it's your player you're slagging off, so I suggest you come up with the figures to prove your point yourself. if you can't, don't want to, find it all too boring,etc, I would suggest that, once again, you're looking at history through those rose tinted spectacles of your's instead of the facts. .

Defoe's career average is just over one goal every 2.41 games..

Career statistics[edit]

As of 10 November 2013.

Club Season League FA Cup League Cup Europe Other^{[nb 2]}

Total Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals

Bournemouth (loan)

2000–01 29 18 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 31 19

Total 29 18 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 31 19

West Ham United

2000–01 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 2 1

2001–02 35 10 3 4 1 0 0 0 0 0 39 14

2002–03 38 8 2 2 2 1 0 0 0 0 42 11

2003–04 19 11 0 0 3 4 0 0 0 0 22 15

Total 93 29 5 6 7 6 0 0 0 0 105 41

Tottenham Hotspur

2003–04 15 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 15 7

2004–05 35 13 4 4 5 5 0 0 0 0 44 22

2005–06 36 9 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 38 9

2006–07 34 10 5 1 5 4 5 3 0 0 49 18

2007–08 19 4 2 0 5 1 5 3 0 0 31 8

Total 139 43 12 5 16 10 10 6 0 0 177 64

Portsmouth

2007–08 12 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 12 8

2008–09 19 7 0 0 0 0 4 2 1 0 24 9

Total 31 15 0 0 0 0 4 2 1 0 36 17

Tottenham Hotspur

2008–09 8 3 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 10 4

2009–10 34 18 7 5 2 1 0 0 0 0 43 24

2010–11 22 4 2 2 0 0 6 3 0 0 30 9

2011–12 25 11 6 3 1 0 6 3 0 0 38 17

2012–13 34 11 0 0 1 0 8 4 0 0 43 15

2013–14 8 0 0 0 2 2 5 7 0 0 15 9

Total 131 47 16 10 7 4 25 17 0 0 179 78

Career total 423 152 34 22 30 20 39 25 2 0 528 219

And about one goal every three appearances for England (although I suspect he's had even more substitute appearances for the National side).

International statistics[edit]

England national team

Year Apps Goals

2004 8 1

2005 7 0 1

2006 6 2

2007 5 0

2008 6 3

2009 6 5

2010 7 4

2011 1 0

2012 6 2

2013 3 2

Total 55 19

If you wish to do Ed's work at least do me the service of reading my question correctly. I wanted the stats for his "Spurs" games, not the rest which is irrelevant to whatever nonsense ed's trying to concoct.

Defoe's average for us is 2.78 with nothing else to offer, by way of assists, creating anything for anyone, tackling or tracking back.

Quite what else you lot are trying to prove is not clear. Should we be playing him to give vertically challenged players a chance or perhaps that you know full well your defense would just love us to play him next sunday.

Carmine, I'm not doing anybody's work for them. You asked about Defoe's stats for the last five years. As I was doing nothing else I simply Googled it and added the stats to the post.

If you look at what data I gave you, I highlighted (in bold type) Defoe's last five years at Tottenham and quoted those stats. I Included all his stats because it actually shows his ratio in the last five years at Tottenham are better than his total career stats.

He has actually played a total of 169 games and scored a total of 74 goals, which is an average of one goal every 2.29 games. If you want to include the 2008-09 season he scored a total of 78 goals in 179 games, giving an average of one goal every 2.30 games............not 2.78.

I don't know how Defoe compares with other strikers at Tottenham (in goal ratio, assists, etc, etc) but, he's your player so if you want to prove he's crap I suggest you supply and compare the stats with those other strikers that have played over the last five years that show that.

I'm not trying to prove anything. The problem Carmine is you come out with these comments but when the stats are looked at they don't always entirely agree with the comment you made (the flippant Argentina quote you made a few days ago is a prime example). It means we don't necessarily accept what you say is entirely accurate. Defoe might be the worst striker you have ever had, I don't know. He might be the laziest, most ineffective player on your books...............or it just might be the rest of the team also play their part in your lack of goals, or, God forbid, even the manager picking the wrong team and tactics for Defoe's style of play.

What is obvious is you don't like Defoe and, rightly or wrongly, apportion a large part of the blame for your ineffectiveness on him.

Incidentally, as for your 'vertically challenged' comment, Defoe is 5ft 7ins while your hero, Maradona, is a mere 5ft 5ins. Size isn't everything is it.

As for next week's match, you can put out any team you want. I personally have no preferences on what players of your's I'd like to see play (or left out). After all, it's obvious we are playing crap and are in serious decline while you (once again) are simply in transition.

Should make for an interesting game.

And just to finish, i am most definitely NOT a Defoe fan. That doesn't make him a bad player, although I think there are a lot better strikers around, just not necessarily a Tottenham.

[BIGTOE3]

Well said Sir and I will be happy to buy you a beer or two anytime.

BT

[mrbojangles]

and what ever people say City were not as good as the scoreline suggests more that they actually were clinical in the chances they created and took.

Yep. 6 lucky goals eh !!!! Isn't the whole point of football to create and score goals? We created and scored 6 and so we were exactly as good as the scoreline suggests. Non of our goals were lucky or through dodgy decisions. They were all good goals which we created and clinically put away.

Real City followers know that this victory was more a case of you performing badly due to poor team selection than them playing extremely well.

Give over man and give credit were credit is due for once. I suppose when we whooped you it was down to your poor team selection?

1.That is what i said you were clinical i never said you were lucky.

2.Look at the possession stats and you were at home against a really beaten team at half time.....Toure made a great goal for Aguero but that was it he was very average.If you had taken other easy chances you should of scored 10 seriously.Spurs made it very easy for you.

To try and get a RAG to credit City for a great, win is futile.

[carmine]

Maradona is definitely not my football hero. I was/is a very flawed character but i put personal issues aside when i openly acknowledge true genius when i see it and Diego Maradona was a privilege to watch.

My football hero is/was Bill Nicholson btw.

[homeseeker]

AVB....on the brink of losing job(?):

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/26/andre-villas-boas-tottenham-manager

[MrRed]

I thought you was bored so again .....i ask zee questions!

So are you just going to stick with Soldado then.

Put up or shut up MrEd. Defoe's premier league stats please......

Goals in the past five seasons ?

Assists in the past five seasons ?

Chances created in the past five seasons ?

I've written Defoe's stats out in more readable form for you. (I hope )

His average for the last five seasons is one goal every 2.29 games, Not quite enough on the face of it to class him a twenty goals a season striker.....................but that doesn't tell the whole story. These figures only show appearances against goals, not minute on the pitch against goals. I would suggest Defoe has been substituted/come on as a substitute in a large proportion of those appearances. I haven't got the figures to hand but would suggest using minutes on the pitch instead of appearances would give him a goals ratio much, much closer to two. And, assuming the manager picked him week in week out, that would make him a twenty goals a season striker.

If his strike rate is good enough you can't blame Defoe if his lack of goals is down to the managers failure to pick him or keep him on the pitch. Interestingly, his strike rate over the last five years is actually better than his career average.

I would suggest Carmine that, making allowances for his restricted game time, over the last five years Defoe has been a lot closer to a 'twenty goals a season' striker than you thought he was.

As for goals per chances, assists, etc, etc, it's your player you're slagging off, so I suggest you come up with the figures to prove your point yourself. if you can't, don't want to, find it all too boring,etc, I would suggest that, once again, you're looking at history through those rose tinted spectacles of your's instead of the facts. .

Defoe's career average is just over one goal every 2.41 games..

Career statistics[edit]

As of 10 November 2013.

Club Season League FA Cup League Cup Europe Other^{[nb 2]}

Total Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals

Bournemouth (loan)

2000–01 29 18 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 31 19

Total 29 18 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 31 19

West Ham United

2000–01 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 2 1

2001–02 35 10 3 4 1 0 0 0 0 0 39 14

2002–03 38 8 2 2 2 1 0 0 0 0 42 11

2003–04 19 11 0 0 3 4 0 0 0 0 22 15

Total 93 29 5 6 7 6 0 0 0 0 105 41

Tottenham Hotspur

2003–04 15 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 15 7

2004–05 35 13 4 4 5 5 0 0 0 0 44 22

2005–06 36 9 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 38 9

2006–07 34 10 5 1 5 4 5 3 0 0 49 18

2007–08 19 4 2 0 5 1 5 3 0 0 31 8

Total 139 43 12 5 16 10 10 6 0 0 177 64

Portsmouth

2007–08 12 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 12 8

2008–09 19 7 0 0 0 0 4 2 1 0 24 9

Total 31 15 0 0 0 0 4 2 1 0 36 17

Tottenham Hotspur

2008–09 8 3 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 10 4

2009–10 34 18 7 5 2 1 0 0 0 0 43 24

2010–11 22 4 2 2 0 0 6 3 0 0 30 9

2011–12 25 11 6 3 1 0 6 3 0 0 38 17

2012–13 34 11 0 0 1 0 8 4 0 0 43 15

2013–14 8 0 0 0 2 2 5 7 0 0 15 9

Total 131 47 16 10 7 4 25 17 0 0 179 78

Career total 423 152 34 22 30 20 39 25 2 0 528 219

And about one goal every three appearances for England (although I suspect he's had even more substitute appearances for the National side).

International statistics[edit]

England national team

Year Apps Goals

2004 8 1

2005 7 0 1

2006 6 2

2007 5 0

2008 6 3

2009 6 5

2010 7 4

2011 1 0

2012 6 2

2013 3 2

Total 55 19

If you wish to do Ed's work at least do me the service of reading my question correctly. I wanted the stats for his "Spurs" games, not the rest which is irrelevant to whatever nonsense ed's trying to concoct.

Defoe's average for us is 2.78 with nothing else to offer, by way of assists, creating anything for anyone, tackling or tracking back.

Quite what else you lot are trying to prove is not clear. Should we be playing him to give vertically challenged players a chance or perhaps that you know full well your defense would just love us to play him next sunday.

After your appraisal i don't think it matters who you play against us does it the midget or the cardboard cutout even the expensive wandering lamppost is better than nowt.

[carmine]

AVB....on the brink of losing job(?):

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/26/andre-villas-boas-tottenham-manager

i think David Hytner is a good journalist but its kind of just his opinion isn't it.

Young managers make mistakes, and yes he might be a little too scientific and forgetting the human dimension. I have also posted my disappointment in his handling of a couple of players and tactical selections but at the end of the day were four points off forth, through to the knockout stages of the europa and still in the capital cup or whatever its called this year.

If we were to get hammered at home by an average United next weekend then theres a fair shout that his philosophy has lost the dressing room but as we speak i see last weekend at a dreadful team performance and beaten by a very good side than may well win the title and thats it bar the goal drought.

[MrRed]

To try and get a RAG to credit City for a great, win is futile.

It was a good win

Actually i have never seen you give credit to a great United performance either and that is going back a long long time.

20 TIMES CHAMPIONS

BAG

[MrRed]

Maradona is definitely not my football hero. I was/is a very flawed character but i put personal issues aside when i openly acknowledge true genius when i see it and Diego Maradona was a privilege to watch.

My football hero is/was Bill Nicholson btw.

'It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low. And we of Spurs have set our sights very high, so high in fact that even failure will have in it an echo of glory.'

One of the greatest ever quotes mr carmine and very true of the Spurs.

[alfieconn]

Why are you trying to take credit for it then?

Plagiarism?

You asked me if i penned it in myself and i said "don't be silly", so where am i trying to take the credit for it ?

Anyone with a bit of savvy can see that it's been cut and pasted, as have many articles in the past from various posters !

[uptheos]

Right wing. left wing it's all pretty much the same, but I reckon people favour the left wing so here goes...

André Villas-Boas on brink of losing Tottenham Hotspur job

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/26/andre-villas-boas-tottenham-manager?CMP=twt_gu

[mrbojangles]

To try and get a RAG to credit City for a great, win is futile.

It was a good win

Actually i have never seen you give credit to a great United performance either and that is going back a long long time.

BAG

Thanks. I'm sure I have given you credit in the past. I shall go on a search when I have time.

Oh and think of something better than BAG. It doesn't have the same ring to it and it's not very original.

[alfieconn]

To try and get a RAG to credit City for a great, win is futile.

It was a good win

Actually i have never seen you give credit to a great United performance either and that is going back a long long time.

BAG

Thanks. I'm sure I have given you credit in the past. I shall go on a search when I have time.

Oh and think of something better than BAG. It doesn't have the same ring to it and it's not very original.

Oi you two, take ya bickering to one of your own threads

[alfieconn]

Right lets clear this Defoe thing up once and for all.

Me and carms have probaly seen every game that Defoe has played over the last 3 years and we have no hidden agenda against the guy, while neither of us have our football badges and are not experts,we are able to see the amount of shots he has during a game that are either off target or straight at the goalkeeper, we are also able to see the passing opportunites that he doesn't see and his general lack of build up play, like i said we have nothing against him personally, in fact being a London boy we would have loved him to be the dogs <deleted> thus saving us 26m.

I get a feeling that a lot of the posters praising Defoe on here, base their opinions on

A. just seeing his goals and not the whole game, which i must admit are sometimes spectacular when he smashes one in the roof of the net.

B. just seeing the highlights where they only pick out the good part of what players do.

C. reading his goalscoring stats.

Obviously the management have the same opinion as us as they were desperate to add another forward to the team, so if Defoe was good enough why were they so deserate to get another forward in ? in fact they were so desperate that knowing that they couldn't get a top forward such as Falcao, Suarez, Lewandowski, Cavani, they went for a forward in the second tier of strikers in europe and while they probaly realised that Soldado wasn't the complete forward they obviously thought that he had more to offer than Defoe.

Posters will probaly say "but he scores goals", he scores goals at a ratio of 1 to 8 shots so taking into account the amount of chances our team would be giving him at the moment that wouldn't be many goals ! and if the team start creating more chances then i would rather them chances fell to Soldado who has a lot better conversion rate.

2012/2013

Striker Games Goals Shot Accuracy Shot Conversion

Soldado 35 24 57% 24%

Defoe 34 11 53% 10%

[Chicog]

Right lets clear this Defoe thing up once and for all.

Me and carms have probaly seen every game that Defoe has played over the last 3 years and we have no hidden agenda against the guy, while neither of us have our football badges and are not experts,we are able to see the amount of shots he has during a game that are either off target or straight at the goalkeeper, we are also able to see the passing opportunites that he doesn't see and his general lack of build up play, like i said we have nothing against him personally, in fact being a London boy we would have loved him to be the dogs <deleted> thus saving us 26m.

I get a feeling that a lot of the posters praising Defoe on here, base their opinions on

A. just seeing his goals and not the whole game, which i must admit are sometimes spectacular when he smashes one in the roof of the net.

B. just seeing the highlights where they only pick out the good part of what players do.

C. reading his goalscoring stats.

Obviously the management have the same opinion as us as they were desperate to add another forward to the team, so if Defoe was good enough why were they so deserate to get another forward in ? in fact they were so desperate that knowing that they couldn't get a top forward such as Falcao, Suarez, Lewandowski, Cavani, they went for a forward in the second tier of strikers in europe and while they probaly realised that Soldado wasn't the complete forward they obviously thought that he had more to offer than Defoe.

Posters will probaly say "but he scores goals", he scores goals at a ratio of 1 to 8 shots so taking into account the amount of chances our team would be giving him at the moment that wouldn't be many goals ! and if the team start creating more chances then i would rather them chances fell to Soldado who has a lot better conversion rate.

2012/2013

Striker Games Goals Shot Accuracy Shot Conversion

Soldado 35 24 57% 24%

Defoe 34 11 53% 10%

That's not much of a comparison given that Soldaddudo scored his goals in Spain.

How about, say, their last ten PL appearances?

[Chicog]

Right wing. left wing it's all pretty much the same, but I reckon people favour the left wing so here goes...

André Villas-Boas on brink of losing Tottenham Hotspur job

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/26/andre-villas-boas-tottenham-manager?CMP=twt_gu

Don't sack him, he's doing a great job!

[alfieconn]

Right lets clear this Defoe thing up once and for all.

Me and carms have probaly seen every game that Defoe has played over the last 3 years and we have no hidden agenda against the guy, while neither of us have our football badges and are not experts,we are able to see the amount of shots he has during a game that are either off target or straight at the goalkeeper, we are also able to see the passing opportunites that he doesn't see and his general lack of build up play, like i said we have nothing against him personally, in fact being a London boy we would have loved him to be the dogs <deleted> thus saving us 26m.

I get a feeling that a lot of the posters praising Defoe on here, base their opinions on

A. just seeing his goals and not the whole game, which i must admit are sometimes spectacular when he smashes one in the roof of the net.

B. just seeing the highlights where they only pick out the good part of what players do.

C. reading his goalscoring stats.

Obviously the management have the same opinion as us as they were desperate to add another forward to the team, so if Defoe was good enough why were they so deserate to get another forward in ? in fact they were so desperate that knowing that they couldn't get a top forward such as Falcao, Suarez, Lewandowski, Cavani, they went for a forward in the second tier of strikers in europe and while they probaly realised that Soldado wasn't the complete forward they obviously thought that he had more to offer than Defoe.

Posters will probaly say "but he scores goals", he scores goals at a ratio of 1 to 8 shots so taking into account the amount of chances our team would be giving him at the moment that wouldn't be many goals ! and if the team start creating more chances then i would rather them chances fell to Soldado who has a lot better conversion rate.

2012/2013

Striker Games Goals Shot Accuracy Shot Conversion

Soldado 35 24 57% 24%

Defoe 34 11 53% 10%

That's not much of a comparison given that Soldaddudo scored his goals in Spain.

How about, say, their last ten PL appearances?

You obviously don't understand what Shot conversion is !

If a player takes a shot (which is what shot conversion is ), it's irrevelent what league he is in, unless the goals are bigger in Spain

[Chicog]

You obviously don't understand what Shot conversion is !

If a player takes a shot (which is what shot conversion is ), it's irrevelent what league he is in, unless the goals are bigger in Spain

Just do the comparison, Alfie, you know what the answer is going to be, don't you?

[alfieconn]

You obviously don't understand what Shot conversion is !

If a player takes a shot (which is what shot conversion is ), it's irrevelent what league he is in, unless the goals are bigger in Spain

Just do the comparison, Alfie, you know what the answer is going to be, don't you?

You keep having a pop at Soldado, a player in his first season in the premier league, if you had any sortt of football knowledge you'd realise it takes foreign players time to adjust !

[alfieconn]

You obviously don't understand what Shot conversion is !

If a player takes a shot (which is what shot conversion is ), it's irrevelent what league he is in, unless the goals are bigger in Spain

Just do the comparison, Alfie, you know what the answer is going to be, don't you?

As a matter of interest give me the shot conversion percentage of both players for the last 11 premier games !

[sumrit]

Right lets clear this Defoe thing up once and for all.

Me and carms have probaly seen every game that Defoe has played over the last 3 years and we have no hidden agenda against the guy, while neither of us have our football badges and are not experts,we are able to see the amount of shots he has during a game that are either off target or straight at the goalkeeper, we are also able to see the passing opportunites that he doesn't see and his general lack of build up play, like i said we have nothing against him personally, in fact being a London boy we would have loved him to be the dogs <deleted> thus saving us 26m.

I get a feeling that a lot of the posters praising Defoe on here, base their opinions on

A. just seeing his goals and not the whole game, which i must admit are sometimes spectacular when he smashes one in the roof of the net.

B. just seeing the highlights where they only pick out the good part of what players do.

C. reading his goalscoring stats.

Obviously the management have the same opinion as us as they were desperate to add another forward to the team, so if Defoe was good enough why were they so deserate to get another forward in ? in fact they were so desperate that knowing that they couldn't get a top forward such as Falcao, Suarez, Lewandowski, Cavani, they went for a forward in the second tier of strikers in europe and while they probaly realised that Soldado wasn't the complete forward they obviously thought that he had more to offer than Defoe.

Posters will probaly say "but he scores goals", he scores goals at a ratio of 1 to 8 shots so taking into account the amount of chances our team would be giving him at the moment that wouldn't be many goals ! and if the team start creating more chances then i would rather them chances fell to Soldado who has a lot better conversion rate.

2012/2013

Striker Games Goals Shot Accuracy Shot Conversion

Soldado 35 24 57% 24%

Defoe 34 11 53% 10%

That's not much of a comparison given that Soldaddudo scored his goals in Spain.

How about, say, their last ten PL appearances?

You obviously don't understand what Shot conversion is !

If a player takes a shot (which is what shot conversion is ), it's irrevelent what league he is in, unless the goals are bigger in Spain

But it is very relevant where those shots are taken from. I've read (on this forum) quotes/complaints from Tottenham supporters that Soldado needs to have the ball in the box because that's where the vast majority of his shots (and goals) come from but, at present, Tottenham just don't get the ball in there often enough.

Your comparing a player's record when he did get the right kind of service in the box in Spain with a player's record when he didn't get that same service in the EPL. The recent complaints on here from Tottenham supporters (about Soldado's failure to score this season) seems to center around that lack of supply into the box, exactly the same supply you're judging Defoe's record on. That is relevant.

And for me, I've got no axe to grind whatsoever. I don't know or care who is the better striker and I don't favour either of them. I wouldn't want either of them at Man U (unless it's just while they're playing for Tottenham of course), neither, in my opinion are good enough.

I only started posting because Carmine made a few comments about Defoe's record that didn't seem to be that accurate. All I did was post his record. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Chicog]

You obviously don't understand what Shot conversion is !

If a player takes a shot (which is what shot conversion is ), it's irrevelent what league he is in, unless the goals are bigger in Spain

Just do the comparison, Alfie, you know what the answer is going to be, don't you?

As a matter of interest give me the shot conversion percentage of both players for the last 11 premier games !

I'm not correcting your homework for you just because you got it wrong.

It's not my fault you bought a wrong 'un, I would have thought you would have learned your lesson from Rebrov, what was it, 1.2 Million pounds a goal or something?

[YoungBrit]

Right lets clear this Defoe thing up once and for all.

Me and carms have probaly seen every game that Defoe has played over the last 3 years and we have no hidden agenda against the guy, while neither of us have our football badges and are not experts,we are able to see the amount of shots he has during a game that are either off target or straight at the goalkeeper, we are also able to see the passing opportunites that he doesn't see and his general lack of build up play, like i said we have nothing against him personally, in fact being a London boy we would have loved him to be the dogs <deleted> thus saving us 26m.

I get a feeling that a lot of the posters praising Defoe on here, base their opinions on

A. just seeing his goals and not the whole game, which i must admit are sometimes spectacular when he smashes one in the roof of the net.

B. just seeing the highlights where they only pick out the good part of what players do.

C. reading his goalscoring stats.

Obviously the management have the same opinion as us as they were desperate to add another forward to the team, so if Defoe was good enough why were they so deserate to get another forward in ? in fact they were so desperate that knowing that they couldn't get a top forward such as Falcao, Suarez, Lewandowski, Cavani, they went for a forward in the second tier of strikers in europe and while they probaly realised that Soldado wasn't the complete forward they obviously thought that he had more to offer than Defoe.

Posters will probaly say "but he scores goals", he scores goals at a ratio of 1 to 8 shots so taking into account the amount of chances our team would be giving him at the moment that wouldn't be many goals ! and if the team start creating more chances then i would rather them chances fell to Soldado who has a lot better conversion rate.

2012/2013

Striker Games Goals Shot Accuracy Shot Conversion

Soldado 35 24 57% 24%

Defoe 34 11 53% 10%

That's not much of a comparison given that Soldaddudo scored his goals in Spain.

How about, say, their last ten PL appearances?

You obviously don't understand what Shot conversion is !

If a player takes a shot (which is what shot conversion is ), it's irrevelent what league he is in, unless the goals are bigger in Spain

I would have to add that a player with more time on the ball and who is closer to the goal has a better chance of producing a better more accurate shot which in turn has a higher chance of converting.

Playing against better defenders in a league which is said to 'give less time' on the ball means that which league it is not irrelevant.

Are the goals bigger in the Europa league for Defoe or does he get more time on the ball against worse players and hence I guess have a very good conversion ratio.

Incidentally, I don't really have an opinion on this but I would like to say I think that players like Defoe who have only really offer goals and not much else are not as desirable in the modern game now. Managers want players who do that as well as either/or hold the ball up, drop in, run in behind etc. That said if Soldado is not scoring is, is the rest of his game that much better than Defoe's? AVB obviously thinks so.

YB

[BangrakBob]

You obviously don't understand what Shot conversion is !

If a player takes a shot (which is what shot conversion is ), it's irrevelent what league he is in, unless the goals are bigger in Spain

Just do the comparison, Alfie, you know what the answer is going to be, don't you?

You keep having a pop at Soldado, a player in his first season in the premier league, if you had any sortt of football knowledge you'd realise it takes foreign players time to adjust !

At the same time, there are many foreign players who don't need to time to adjust just look at some of City's new recruits. Then there are those that never adjust like Aqau-pissin-lani for one

[Chicog]

Could be all moot because the Mirror reckon Defoe is going to Toronto.