Can't afford to live in Thailand anymore

[mania]

I am from Toronto, Ontario Canada and could never imagine living back in Canada with the ridiculously high taxes, high rentals, cold, snowy and wet weather 5-6 months of the year, bureaucratic bs among other things . My dollar goes much further here than in Canada, eh. Where in Canada can you have a mortgage on a 3 bedroom townhouse with a pool and fitness center for $182.87 per month. $584.00 per year for automobile insurance. $3.18 for cigarettes and I could go on and on about how it is cheaper here than in Canada.

You must be living in one of the poorer provinces like Newfoundland,P.E.I or Nova Scotia in order to state that its cheaper to live there than here.

Much of what you say is true

But always both sides has positives & negatives.

Life is cheaper here literally but that is not always a good thing.

Also medical like many things has its potholes be careful

[sandgroper2]

I suggest you do your sums again. Your figures are wrong with regards to the Ozzie dollar. 25 bt to the $, has averaged around 27. 20 bt durying the GFC. Maby you can afford to live here after all if your Canadian figures are as accurate as your Ozzie figures.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I am from Toronto, Ontario Canada and could never imagine living back in Canada with the ridiculously high taxes, high rentals, cold, snowy and wet weather 5-6 months of the year, bureaucratic bs among other things . My dollar goes much further here than in Canada, eh. Where in Canada can you have a mortgage on a 3 bedroom townhouse with a pool and fitness center for $182.87 per month. $584.00 per year for automobile insurance. $3.18 for cigarettes and I could go on and on about how it is cheaper here than in Canada.

You must be living in one of the poorer provinces like Newfoundland,P.E.I or Nova Scotia in order to state that its cheaper to live there than here.

Wrong. I own a house place in Toronto.

However, you must be living in the anals of isaan

[GuestHouse]

The OP is comparing costs in Thailand to costs in Canada and in doing so including the 'social wage' he receives in Canada.

Many who make such Thailand v original home comparisons fail to include the social wage and yet it is a significant contribution to the real costs of living, especially so for those with school age children.

Another issue many fail to include is 'opportunity costs'. It is not impossible to make a very good living in Thailand, quite a few people do, but by no means all. I think it reasonable to assume that most western expats in Thailand are supporting themselves and perhaps family with income or savings from overseas. Older people with pension or investment income, a few younger people who have made or come into wealth at a young age. But for most of us we need during our 20s to 50s to work, earn, save, invest to build the wealth to support us in old age.

As I say a few expats in Thailand will make enough very good living in Thailand, enough to save for the future. I wonder how many don't, are financially treading water and not building the wealth they need to support them in old age?

Cheap today, but nothing for tomorrow, is not cheap at all.

Edited April 13, 2016 by GuestHouse

[theguyfromanotherforum]

The OP is comparing costs in Thailand to costs in Canada and in doing so including the 'social wage' he receives in Canada.

Many who make such Thailand v original home comparisons fail to include the social wage and yet it is a significant contribution to the real costs of living, especially so for those with school age children.

Another issue many fail to include is 'opportunity costs'. It is not impossible to make a very good living in Thailand, quite a few people do, but by no means all. I think it reasonable to assume that most western expats in Thailand are supporting themselves and perhaps family with income or savings from overseas. Older people with pension or investment income, a few younger people who have made or come into wealth at a young age. But for most of us we need during our 20s to 50s to work, earn, save, invest to build the wealth to support us in old age.

As I say a few expats in Thailand will make enough very good living in Thailand, enough to save for the future. I wonder how many don't, are financially treading water and not building the wealth they need to support them in old age?

Cheap today, but nothing for tomorrow, is not cheap at all.

Very good post.

Not to mention that Canadian guy from Toronto who's complaining about everything will be able on the first flight home as soon as a serious illness strikes billing the Canadian tax payer million plus dollars for a cancer treatment.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Yep, how the worm has turned from 4-5 years ago, when all my Canadian friends were struggling around Thailand like petro-millionaires. I hope they enjoyed it while it lasted. That being said, Americans were in your position a few years ago too and like always with exchange rates they always change. The Loon could be strong again too if oil prices ever return to the 80-150 range.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Money isn't everything. Go wherever makes you happiest.

It helps, especially when you're hungry.

[OMGImInPattaya]

The OP is not the only one..... ( but how come the Can$ is so weak when the US$ is so strong ?)

when I moved here in 2005, I got 52 Baht for a Euro.

Today I get 36...... and food gets a lot more expensive...... a 225gr piece of butter was 55 or so a few years back..... now 86....

and has anyone asked a Russian Expat ?

no matter how, many Europeans living here, including me, have to tighten the belt for sure

Because the US had plentiful cheap fracked oil and Canada has expensive tar-sands oil. Also, most of the tech future is being developed in USA, not Canada, like Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Google, Tesla, etc.

[tharae]

In April 2001, the Australian Dollar traded as low as 0.4775 against the US dollar and in July 2011 as high as 1.1080. It has averaged 0.7560 since the Dollar was floated. So, no, the Dollar has traded lower and currently above the long term average.

[tartempion]

I travel every year in the month of September to Montreal for two weeks, it's my preferred city on the planet. If it would n't be freezing 6 months a year I would opt living there.

But it is an expensive pace to live.

[dick dasterdly]

Talk about an old, resurrected thread! But its as valid a question then as now.

Prices have gone up a lot here in Phuket, but I suspect the same has happened back in England - and I'm 100% sure that Thailand (even Phuket) is still more affordable than England.

Rent is a lot cheaper and no council tax payable - and rent/mortgage plus council tax generally take up a large proportion of income back in the UK. Water charges have also gone up a lot in the UK, whereas water here is cheap.

I'm not sure about food prices, but consider the pesticides used here (and zero regulation on the pesticides used) a definite drawback. Street food is still v cheap, albeit only something I'd consider v rarely due to the flies crawling all over it and the ingredients are obviously the cheapest of the cheapest....

Western foods and wine are exorbitantly expensive here, but cigarettes are a lot cheaper.

[dick dasterdly]

I forgot about elec and gas.

Elec seems to be more expensive here, but that is probably 'cos there isn't any gas! Central heating is required in cold countries for x months per year, and aircon is required here by most people - although even then mostly at night in the bedroom and only every now and again during the day.

So, again generally, the overall power consumption bill here is likely to be lower.

[steve187]

in the UK, someone owns a house worth 40,000 baht in monthly rent, but has no income so impossible to live in the uk, but that person can live in Thailand on that rental income, so got to be cheaper to live in Thailand than the UK

[sirineou]

Give Canada a try, you might be surprised and your wife might like it.

Living in the US with my Thai wife for close to seven years now, Wife loves it here.

We go to Thailand every year for me a couple weeks wife stays a little longer, and we get out Thai fix.

Only difference is we are a little further south and when in the US we split our time between NY, and Florida so we dont have the weather challenge.

But as I said, Give it a try, you might be surprised. and Thailand is not going anywhere, will still be there if you want to go back.

PS: a lot of this depends on your and your wife's capacity to adapt. relationship, and finances.

Aside from all the other variables you are the only one who can assess those variables.

[BritManToo]

in the UK, someone owns a house worth 40,000 baht in monthly rent, but has no income so impossible to live in the uk, but that person can live in Thailand on that rental income, so got to be cheaper to live in Thailand than the UK

UK, House + council tax + car + insurance + mot + heating bills = impossible.

A lot cheaper almost everywhere else in Europe, or the world.

[SoiBiker]

When my wife and I lived in London, our combined income was higher than it is now. And yet we're now able to live a considerably more comfortable lifestyle and save more money for the future, because Thailand is a much more affordable place to live.

[ardokano]

Interesting. I've been back in my home country(US) for a while and doing some comparisons. I think most consumer prices are similar. Maybe a hair bit cheaper in the US due to WalMart. Only thing that in cheap in Thailand is the LOW monthly rent for studio apartments and the cheap restaurants. In the US I can't find any apartment for less than about $300 a month(10,000 baht) anywhere. But I can find good studio apartments for less than $150 a month in Thai. You can even find rooms for $50 a month in Thai still. So for me, Thai is still a bargain in the accomodation department. It's actually much for affordable to live in Thai for me. I've been priced out of my own country.

You should count yourself lucky. In the UK, you will not get a one bedroom apartment for less that $750 a month. For Brits Thailand is very cheap.

Different style life different compare.

For poor guys(as me) and sexpat Thailand can be cheap.

For poor fuys but with few pounds in pocket Thailand can be cheap ef they prefer Thai food, and etc.

Different cost rent apartment cant easy cover price car.

Good steak in UK even can be more cheaper. Beer..electronic and many anotger thinks .

[OMGImInPattaya]

I feel your pain bro...faced with a similar dilemma awhile back...weighed my options and long term pros and cons...

Back in home country now...living a good life with many benefits...I will miss "Thainess" though...It become a daily adventure to see if I could spot the scam/corruption before they got my baht...

Good Luck on whatever you decide...

Must be missing something though if you're still hanging around a Thailand expats forum. ?

[OMGImInPattaya]

I visited Thailand many times over the last 28 years. It was cheap then. And it was so full of Thainess.

I decided to settle there, over 9 yaers ago. It was cheap then, and still a lot of Thainess.

But i watched as it became more and more expensive, and see the Thainess dissapear.

So 12 Months ago, I decided to say goodbye. I now live in the Philippines. I have a lovely girl who speaks English, and is not money driven.

It is a cleaner lifestyle, and a lot cheaper. I am sorry to say, because I like Thailand, but it is just not the place it used to be, and I found myself continually checking prices and buying cheaper alternatives. Goodbye Thailand, and Good luck, your going to need it.

Funny how every Filipino I've met says the opposite...especially the ones living and working in Thailand..maybe need to check the colour of your spectacles.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Interesting posts - it is the medical that is a big worry. Most expats "self-insure" it seems, but if you are in a bad accident/get seriously ill/have to go to e.g. the ICU etc. it can cost you big time here. In Canada it's (relatively) free. I speak as a Canuck.

And the Canucks may (probably will) make it hard for your G/F wife to get in - and work too.

But surely what is really needed is a devaluation of the much-too-too high Thai baht! ??

Agree with your "take" on the Canuck gals!! Spare me!!

Why don't more realize it's a zero-sum game...baht devalues foreigners get a little more when they exchange money but prices of all imported goods and services go up a corresponding amount. In addition, all the expats with baht based income or investments, not to mention the Thais themselves, loose out.

[BritManToo]

For poor fuys but with few pounds in pocket Thailand can be cheap ef they prefer Thai food, and etc.

Western food is very cheap, if you cook it yourself.

[OMGImInPattaya]

The past few years Thailand has become rapidly more expensive and the end is not in view. I anticipated that Europe and North America would become cheaper than here in 5 to 10 years, but that moment is there now already because the exchange rates development.

If you come here to retire it could still be OK, but if you anticipate on a family with kids your best bet would probably be Canada.

Some things that are hell expensive here are education, mortgages, cars and many daily groceries are at the same level already and going up.

Take in to account things like (near) free education, child support (not sure about Canada), cheaper mortgages and tax deductions etc.

Everything in Thailand at a western quality level is only for the rich and generally more expensive than in the west.

That "free" education probably costs residents $ 5-10k in property taxes annually (or however Canada finances public schools). There is no property tax in Thailand, saving a homeowner 5-10k annually right off the bat.

[OMGImInPattaya]

It is worth noting that the minimum wage has doubled here in the last two years, so is it any surprise that prices are going up?

Also, isn't the VAT going up to 10% this year?

The VATs been "going up" to 10% every couple years since I got here 15 years ago...it's still 7% ?

[OMGImInPattaya]

Is it really cheaper to live in canada? i can't really believe that. Can you buy a detached house for $100,000? My costs living here in LoS are far below what i would pay in the UK.

Can't say about Canada but in the US, yes. LINK

In the UK that wouldn't even buy you an outside toilet. Minimum in London @$700,000 in some Muslim ghetto.

There are plenty of places in the UK where £35k buys you a house such as this end terrace in Hull.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-48184627.html

Maybe not Mayfair but you can own it outright and not worry about visa runs. Some may say they would not want to live in the north of England but in my opinion better than eking out a life in a dirt poor Thai village.

Food and cars are also much cheaper in the UK. A decent little mid sized car can be bought for under a £1,000.

I see a lot of Farangs just wasting their days sitting in expat bars.

Everywhere is nice while you have money.

Did you even look at the pictures of that house...or just grab a listing of something that was cheap to try to make your point? I'll clue you in...it was a shizerhole (but somebody bought it anyway). It would probably take another 35k just to make the place habitable (or the council could just give it to a Syrian refugee family as they'd feel right at home as the place looked like it had been bombed out). I'd also like to see what you consider a "decent" car for under 1000 pounds...I shudder to think. And let me see if I understand you correctly: if one is living in a Thai Village in the countryside one is "eking" but if doing the same in some out of the way English Hamlet one is what, "living the life"? Edited April 13, 2016 by OMGImInPattaya

[OMGImInPattaya]

I hear you ... loud and clear.!!! I am watching the nose dive of the Canadian dollar with real concern, as my already measly pension is going down the drain in value with the dollar. 20,000 baht used to cost about $625 to $650, .. now it is over $800!

I'd go back to Canada if I could but I can not afford to go there either. Even with the income supplement, it is not enough to provide a decent accommodation and buy food and necessities!

I am in this position because I was considerate of my Thai girl friend that became my wife. She also had a decent job in Bangkok and I knew she would be miserable away from family, friends, food, culture etc. ... so I moved here. She ended up cheating on me and running off with another guy after I foolishly helped her family many times and built a big house and store ...only to lose everything!

My advice is pure and simple, .. put yourself first! Do what is best for you!

Always have ☺

[OMGImInPattaya]

Is it really cheaper to live in canada? i can't really believe that. Can you buy a detached house for $100,000? My costs living here in LoS are far below what i would pay in the UK.

Can't say about Canada but in the US, yes. LINK

In the UK that wouldn't even buy you an outside toilet. Minimum in London @$700,000 in some Muslim ghetto.

There are plenty of places in the UK where £35k buys you a house such as this end terrace in Hull.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-48184627.html

Maybe not Mayfair but you can own it outright and not worry about visa runs. Some may say they would not want to live in the north of England but in my opinion better than eking out a life in a dirt poor Thai village.

Food and cars are also much cheaper in the UK. A decent little mid sized car can be bought for under a £1,000.

I see a lot of Farangs just wasting their days sitting in expat bars.

Everywhere is nice while you have money.

Sorry but you are talking rubbish.

I too owned my own home in England. It wasn`t so much the cost of food but the home bills were crippling. We had council tax, water rates, massive electric and gas bills, telephone bills, a license required just to watch TV, the constant need to maintain the house otherwise not possible to sell later on plus a mortgage. The monthly expenditure just for the pleasure of living in our own home, excluding food and other sundries came to more than I spent in 5 months living in Thailand. The United States was cheaper but still way more expensive than living in Thailand.

It is still possible to live cheaply in Thailand, just depends on what sort of lifestyles ex-pats expect to lead. My wife and I can still live comfortably on 30000 baht per month and we are not skimping on that amount. That`s about £610 per month and there is no way we could expect to live the same standard of living on that amount in the UK. These days it wouldn`t even cover a months rent.

Whoever believes that their money can go further in the UK or the states than in Thailand are living in cloud cuckoo land.

But your forgetting about the "free" education, the "free" healthcare, the "free" transport subsidies, "free" heating subsidies, the "free" pensions, "free" tv, and all the other so called "freebies" of living in the modern Western welfare state.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Some good points. Lots to ponder about. To be honest the biggest issue for me is filth. Thailand is dirty and it's affecting my health.

What price do you put on health. That alone is a no-brainer. You are much better in the west.

Of course the other difficult part is your relationship. It's always going to be difficult when falang wants to move back home. Is your relationship strong enough for your GF to move with you. Always a good sign how deep they are into you?

I use to look forward to quickly coming back to Thailand after a short trip back home. Now it's the other way round. I look forward to going back home after each cycle.

The air quality at times is abysmal in Thailand. They seem to love burning stuff especially plastic which is full of carcinogens.

Three months a year is fine by me to escape UK winters but nothing compares to Europe from April until September.

Thailand will always be a dirty country as the Thais care about nothing apart from eating and sleeping.

Froze my arse off during a holiday to England one April ?

[OMGImInPattaya]

You may be surprised at the Cost of Living in Canada when you return.

Here's a nicely colour coded map:

http://www.visualcapitalist.com/cost-of-living-around-world/

Utilities costs in Canada are substantially higher

Not only Gas (heat) & Electric but:

mobile: Truemobile @ BHT199 vs. Fido.ca @ CAD$56

broadband: 3BB @ BHT580 vs. Telus.ca @ CAD$63

Remember that you will need 4 seasons of clothing in Canada.

How many pairs of shoes do you need in Thailand?

Then there is the much vaunted Canadian Health Care system.

Which is great - until you need to use it.

Full checkup (full blood tests, EKG, XRAY, etc. etc), including extra consult with cardiologist/more blood work/2nd cardiologist consult was done in an afternoon in Chiang Mai. Without an appointment.

If you could get the same thing done in Canada (which you can't, until you have a problem) the appointments alone would stretch over several weeks.

Plus the driving time to and from each one.

My personal transportation costs (not including the cost of buying vehicles) went up 10x when we moved back to Canada.

Trying comparing the cost of flying Air Canada domestically to Thailand. You might not be traveling much.

Canada is a wonderful country, and there are lots of good reasons to live there, but a lower Cost of Living is not one of them.

what does electric cost in thailand? yearly check up in canada is free.

There's that "free" again ?

[fey]

its plenty cheaper, but you have to go in wanting/expecting to downgrade...

downgrade means living with problems that you would not have back home for example less quality housing, inferior products, safety issues etc

if you try to maintain the same lifestyle (assuming your coming from a more affulent country) your going to get overcharged on things and wont be very affordable and start complaining about costs and how back home was better for the price your paying

thats why were getting a lot of dudes coming over here eating steaks and sitting in air-conned rooms all day wondering whats going down. they can downgrade lifestyle.

the good thing about thailand is that its possible to downgrade and still have access to nutricious food, crime free housing and neighborhoods and people who are relatively sane

if i tried doing what im doing now back in the usa i can tell you i would likely be seriously injured, robbed and living on fast food. ever lived in a usa ghetto where you can rent for $300 a month? its no joke and not a pretty life.

Edited April 13, 2016 by fey

[OMGImInPattaya]

Sounds like many that while living in Thailand you never ate Thai food. Lived on over priced expensive crap foreign food. Thailand too expensive ? Yea if your diet is booze and foreign food.

sure thailand is cheap if you want to he'lin a rural backwater eat thai food at the market and drink chang...but its not for everyone,some have higher aspirations!

If you don't want to eat Thai food and drink Thai beer, why the hell would you come to Thailand?

Thai beer is already more expensive than beer in Europe or the US, at least 10 to 20% more if I compare Chang with a mid-range beer in Europe, wine is absurd.

And if you buy basic ingredients it doesn't make any difference if you turn them in to Thai or other food.

But for all but alcoholics (admittedly a large group in Thailand ?), what percentage of one's monthly budget goes to alcohol consumption? Edited April 13, 2016 by OMGImInPattaya