Patong is dead.

[SooKee]

I didn't stay out late and as I was making my way home, I did notice that Bangla was still busy at about 12:30 a.m. and I couldn't understand that why suddenly on the last two visits, the bars had seemed to be a lot busier and even Soi Freedom was enjoying more farangs than before.........then it dawned on me that we are now in the middle of a northern hemisphere summer holiday season and as has always been the case in the past, there is a blip in the number of tourists visiting from there and also from parts of Australia to get away from what they call "winter".

So as one poster has said, "Bangla Road is not all of Patong" and they are right however it has always been a bit of a barometer as to how things are going in Patong in general, so it would be fair to say that Bangla Road (on the last two showings) is not absolutely dead, but those areas on the periphery of Patong (Nanai Road for example) are certainly suffering and look to be in their death throes.

I'm not stating anything that has not already been said, however I am certain that this coming "high season" will break a lot of businesses here, certainly the small and medium-sized ones, and even possibly a few larger ones.

In addition to holiday season I'm wondering how much of a blip in numbers the recent appalling weather will have caused also. Torrential rain for several days and nights sure does a good job of emptying Bangla, especially with the confusion over will the bars close / not close on Mother's Day, such that when the weather improves it suddenly gets an influx giving the impression of picking up, then it plateaus back to normality. Be interesting to see once the weather stabilises a bit and as the run up to high season starts.

I'm told that Tao is running a beer promo at the moment - Singha Light for 79 or 99 baht, can't recall which, but I'll check it out tonight Tazmania I'm told will also be running a pool competition next month, likely to raise awareness about the place and stabilise the now increasing customer base. 1st prize tabled to be 100,000 baht. The only concern I have with these types of promotions is, will the people continue to go after the event concludes?

So many places now have different incentives to entice the free-lancers (free drinks, buy one get one free, 4 girls - one bottle vodka etc.) there's little to attract them to any place that doesn't have at least reasonable numbers of their target audience, cashed-up (or even these days not so cashed-up) guys. That tends to mean the very so-so discos and mainly after midnight leaving Bangla devoid of much other than coyote dancers and bar PR girls before 12 and even after 12 outside of the discos. Even if the free-lancers wanted to come out before 12, where to go? Coyote bars where they have to compete with scantily clad dancers, why bother? It's not like there's much bay way of alternative venues for them to go to to try and 'pull' and certainly nothing that could be seen as even remotely classy. Again it all comes down to what Patong is. Bland. Excluding what I would expect would be the limited effect of a bunch of 'one night wonder' Chinese coming for a look-see, for places to be successful they need to have girls, for the places to have girls they need to have guys. Kind of a chicken/egg situation with bars / clubs trying to figure which to chase first.

Interesting about the paella place too, might give that a spin. Really fancy a GOOD paella. Fingers crossed.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Pick of Penang

[NamKangMan]

Quote NKM: " I don't see "the crap" as decreasing, so how long do you give Phuket?"

And, "They can't all be shift workers, finishing at 2am, and having a drink after work".

As for the first quote, that is difficult to say for someone like me who is pretty settled here for reasons I have mentioned before, and at my age, I'm not sure that I want to uproot yet again leaving behind another set of friends. So it would have to be something drastic to make me leave, because a lot of the "crap" that goes on I have chosen to ignore and not let it get the better of me.

I wasn't meaning they were "shift workers" per se, but the bar workers who start their work at 7 p.m. and finish around 2 or 3 a.m. before heading off to the nightclubs/music bars. And I don't think one can ever underestimate the the capability of these Thai folk to be able to lay their hands on some money from somewhere, after all even the most "broke" Thai girls seem to be able to buy the latest iPhone or whatever whenever they want!!

"because a lot of the "crap" that goes on I have chosen to ignore and not let it get the better of me." - as we all do, xp, but how many tourists can do the same?

Many get here and do not find "The Land of Smiles" waiting for them.

A placebo in a survey would be an expat who lives in Thailand, but not Phuket. I have asked expats in Bangkok, Pattaya, Chiang Mai and Udon Thani if they have been to Phuket. Mainly because the question comes up, "Where do you live?"

All have answered, "Yes" - followed by words to the effect, "Never again."

As mentioned previously, have Phuket expats just come to accept "the crap" here and have become complacent?

For the highest prices in South East Asia, Singapore aside, are we getting value for money in critcal services and infastructure?

[SooKee]

Detail on the current Tao drink promo - Singha Light: 69 baht until 10pm, 79 baht 10-11pm, 89 baht until closing. Good deal, (& for me) nice beer at a very good price in place that's a cut above many, IMO.

[xylophone]

Quote Pick of Penang: "Interesting about the paella place too, might give that a spin. Really fancy a GOOD paella. Fingers crossed".

I don't want to disappoint you PoP, but the paella is probably not the best I've ever tasted, but is good for this part of the world, and plenty of it.

As you will probably know, there are many regional variations on this dish throughout Spain and I'm not sure from whence this one originates, however I do know that the rice is cooked with what appears to be a beef stock (common in some variations) and it also contains prawns, chicken thighs, squid, onions, red peppers and garlic as well as peas......and it is very tasty in its own right.

Friday night used to be the paella night when the patronage was greater and I think that is still the case. If you wish you can PM me and I will give you the phone number and you can ask when they are next serving this dish.

[Peterocket]

Quote NKM: " I don't see "the crap" as decreasing, so how long do you give Phuket?"

And, "They can't all be shift workers, finishing at 2am, and having a drink after work".

As for the first quote, that is difficult to say for someone like me who is pretty settled here for reasons I have mentioned before, and at my age, I'm not sure that I want to uproot yet again leaving behind another set of friends. So it would have to be something drastic to make me leave, because a lot of the "crap" that goes on I have chosen to ignore and not let it get the better of me.

I wasn't meaning they were "shift workers" per se, but the bar workers who start their work at 7 p.m. and finish around 2 or 3 a.m. before heading off to the nightclubs/music bars. And I don't think one can ever underestimate the the capability of these Thai folk to be able to lay their hands on some money from somewhere, after all even the most "broke" Thai girls seem to be able to buy the latest iPhone or whatever whenever they want!!

"because a lot of the "crap" that goes on I have chosen to ignore and not let it get the better of me." - as we all do, xp, but how many tourists can do the same?

Many get here and do not find "The Land of Smiles" waiting for them.

A placebo in a survey would be an expat who lives in Thailand, but not Phuket. I have asked expats in Bangkok, Pattaya, Chiang Mai and Udon Thani if they have been to Phuket. Mainly because the question comes up, "Where do you live?"

All have answered, "Yes" - followed by words to the effect, "Never again."

As mentioned previously, have Phuket expats just come to accept "the crap" here and have become complacent?

For the highest prices in South East Asia, Singapore aside, are we getting value for money in critcal services and infastructure?

"because a lot of the "crap" that goes on I have chosen to ignore and not let it get the better of me." - as we all do, xp, but how many tourists can do the same?

About 30 million a year and rising

Many get here and do not find "The Land of Smiles" waiting for them.

And many do

As mentioned previously, have Phuket expats just come to accept "the crap" here and have become complacent?

Most expats are fully aware of the differences of culture when moving to a foreign country before they arrive. However many then still chose to constantly moan about it.

For the highest prices in South East Asia, Singapore aside, are we getting value for money in critical services and infastructure?

Probably yes...even with the second highest prices in Asia it is still cheap here.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Peterocket

[metisdead]

This is an English language forum, if you want to speak in Thai, please use the Thai language forum. Posts have been removed.

[NamKangMan]

Quote NKM: " I don't see "the crap" as decreasing, so how long do you give Phuket?"

And, "They can't all be shift workers, finishing at 2am, and having a drink after work".

As for the first quote, that is difficult to say for someone like me who is pretty settled here for reasons I have mentioned before, and at my age, I'm not sure that I want to uproot yet again leaving behind another set of friends. So it would have to be something drastic to make me leave, because a lot of the "crap" that goes on I have chosen to ignore and not let it get the better of me.

I wasn't meaning they were "shift workers" per se, but the bar workers who start their work at 7 p.m. and finish around 2 or 3 a.m. before heading off to the nightclubs/music bars. And I don't think one can ever underestimate the the capability of these Thai folk to be able to lay their hands on some money from somewhere, after all even the most "broke" Thai girls seem to be able to buy the latest iPhone or whatever whenever they want!!

"because a lot of the "crap" that goes on I have chosen to ignore and not let it get the better of me." - as we all do, xp, but how many tourists can do the same?

Many get here and do not find "The Land of Smiles" waiting for them.

A placebo in a survey would be an expat who lives in Thailand, but not Phuket. I have asked expats in Bangkok, Pattaya, Chiang Mai and Udon Thani if they have been to Phuket. Mainly because the question comes up, "Where do you live?"

All have answered, "Yes" - followed by words to the effect, "Never again."

As mentioned previously, have Phuket expats just come to accept "the crap" here and have become complacent?

For the highest prices in South East Asia, Singapore aside, are we getting value for money in critcal services and infastructure?

"because a lot of the "crap" that goes on I have chosen to ignore and not let it get the better of me." - as we all do, xp, but how many tourists can do the same?

About 30 million a year and rising

Many get here and do not find "The Land of Smiles" waiting for them.

And many do

As mentioned previously, have Phuket expats just come to accept "the crap" here and have become complacent?

Most expats are fully aware of the differences of culture when moving to a foreign country before they arrive. However many then still chose to constantly moan about it.

For the highest prices in South East Asia, Singapore aside, are we getting value for money in critical services and infastructure?

Probably yes...even with the second highest prices in Asia it is still cheap here.

"about 30 million a year and rising" - majority are now Chinese. Western tourist market declining 15%, year on year.

"And many do" - if so, why is the western tourists market declining 15%, year on year?

"Most expats are fully aware of the differences of culture when moving to a foreign country before they arrive" - Thai "culture" on Phuket?

"Probably yes...even with the second highest prices in Asia it is still cheap here" - yes, it is, but Phuketians are paying way more, are getting way less.

[Peterocket]

"And many do" - if so, why is the western tourists market declining 15%, year on year?

Hmmm interesting, can I ask where you found that out?

The market research I have shows a 1% decline in western tourist numbers 2013 - 2014.

[LivinginKata]

Hmmm interesting, can I ask where you found that out?

The market research I have shows a 1% decline in western tourist numbers 2013 - 2014.

I very seriously doubt your 1% decline figure. Please show your 'market research' and please do not quote TAT numbers.

[NamKangMan]

"And many do" - if so, why is the western tourists market declining 15%, year on year?

Hmmm interesting, can I ask where you found that out?

The market research I have shows a 1% decline in western tourist numbers 2013 - 2014.

This news article was the subject of a thread recently.

http://www.thephuketnews.com/opinion-the-changing-face-of-phuket-tourism-industry-52865.php

Note the relevant sentence:

"This is in contrast to European markets, which made up a fifth of all tourists, about a 15pc decline y-o-y."

I suspect the figures are worse than 15%.

If this trend continues, that's a collapes of the western tourist market to Phuket within 7 years.

Also, this article shows the massive decline in the Russian market, although this decline is through no fault of Thailand.

http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Russian-economic-crisis-hits-Phuket-Pattaya/43889

Can you quote your source?

Walking around, I simply do not see what would equate as a minor 1% decrease in western tourists here.

[Lashay]

This news article was the subject of a thread recently.

http://www.thephuketnews.com/opinion-the-changing-face-of-phuket-tourism-industry-52865.php

Note the relevant sentence:

"This is in contrast to European markets, which made up a fifth of all tourists, about a 15pc decline y-o-y."

I suspect the figures are worse than 15%.

If this trend continues, that's a collapes of the western tourist market to Phuket within 7 years.

Also, this article shows the massive decline in the Russian market, although this decline is through no fault of Thailand.

http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Russian-economic-crisis-hits-Phuket-Pattaya/43889

Can you quote your source?

Walking around, I simply do not see what would equate as a minor 1% decrease in western tourists here.

While that sentence about European markets seems pretty bad, you have to realize TaT, unlike most people (you included it seems) include Russia in Europe. If you look at any break down by country you will see most of the rest of "Europe" is up or barely changed, it is mainly Russia dragging the that market down.

http://www.tatnews.org/thailand-visitor-arrivals-surge-25-in-jan-may-2015/

"By region, strong growth was reported in arrivals from East Asia, South Asia, the Middle East and America. Only the European market showed a decline, primarily because of the decline in arrivals from Russia"

Now as to why arrivals are up but experience on ground says everything is down? Putting to one side the Chinese, without whom growth would be in low single digits, the demographics and habits of the western tourists are changing. Not only are they generally getting younger (and thus generally 'poorer') but vast majority (old and young) are traveling around more , both inside and outside of Thailand (low cost of travel around Asia, more destinations opening up to mass tourism, combined with westerners taking fewer holidays, thus wanting to fit more into each trip overall is my feeling). Few years ago average holiday for westerner was 2-3 weeks, majority in a place like Phuket/Pattaya/Island and a few days in BKK. These days large amounts i speak to are doing just 2 to 4 days in one place and then moving on to next.

So on one hand you have people staying in just one of the main destinations shorter periods, on the other non stop growth in construction/opening of new business, increasing competition. So hardly a wonder there is not enough to go around anymore.

@LivinginKata: There is pretty much no other source besides TaT, though agree, don't trust them that much myself, not so much because i believe they lie but more because they don't ask the right questions (very important in statistics, this can be specially seen in their "biggest spenders per person" data, which you can see example of in above link) and the data is never complete enough to give a truly accurate picture (they should be giving age/gender/duration of stay in kingdom information, all things they have available to them already).

Edited August 17, 2015 by Lashay

[Lashay]

You would have to question whether it's profitable to remain open between 3am and 6am, especially if Thai's are the main customers at that time.

I would suggest, a lot of those still out at that time are on a substance, other than alcohol, especially the Thai's.

They can't all be shift workers, finishing at 2am, and having a drink after work.

Based on your friend's observations, I would not be surprised if there is a major incident there one night / morning.

Is it profitable? Probably, people get spending stupid that late. Is the profit worth the hassle/effort? Judging by amount of bars that can close early (Tiger bars are not allowed), think not. 2/3rd of Bangla seems to start to close by 3:30 most nights now where even last low season 4:30 seemed to be the norm. Only exception, bar wise, seems to be group of bars right in front of Tai Pan who seem to be running until 5-7am....and you can tell it is taking a toll on their staff and girls (know a few in there and they are aging FAST). Clubs closing seem to be ranging from 5-8am

The "shift workers" are generally Bangla staff and owners

Despite my earlier hopes about the new Tao place, not seeing it get much business. main problem i see is he has tried to cover all the bases (bar, girl bar, live music, night club) in a place that is only big enough for one "theme". And the closing it all in, hiding the live band and any action behind the bar most definitely does not help

Been a few comments about Soi Croc being half empty of bars/customers, it's been going though it's close down period over the last 6-8 months. New owners don't take over until next month (told it's a farang owner/developer),they are going to knock it down, raise the floor up and rebuild it as a new soi (they think they can do it in well under 2 months...good luck with that). Until then no new bars can open (one or two moved to Freedom), Ladyboy dancers in center are not getting paid,tips only, so expect their numbers to drop even more. Cabaret dressed girls seem to have moved to in front of Freedom (seadragon cabaret is closed/moved to car park at back of Freedom)

Edited August 17, 2015 by Lashay

[Peterocket]

Hmmm interesting, can I ask where you found that out?

The market research I have shows a 1% decline in western tourist numbers 2013 - 2014.

I very seriously doubt your 1% decline figure. Please show your 'market research' and please do not quote TAT numbers.

Primary markets

2013

8% Australia

16% Eastern Europe

16% Western Europe

53.7% Asia

2014

9% Australia

17% Eastern Europe

15% Western Europe

53.6% Asia

Source: Phuket Airport Immigration, Phuket Provincial Commercial Office, and C9 Hotelworks Market Research.

[DrDave]

Took a quick tour of Bangla last night after dinner, and popped in to Tao after seeing the reports by xylophone and others.

At 8:30, the 8-piece Filipino band was playing, and we were the only customers in the bar. I kind of like the setup with the band at the back, and the bar in the front, although that's probably not the best business-wise. The owner has obviously spent some money on the build-out as it has a nice feel. The biggest problem I see with the physical layout is that there are a couple of large structural posts that are in the line of sight between some of the tables and the stage. Removing those and installing a larger beam would probably have been way too expensive.

When we arrived, Tao had only a few touts out in the street advertising their promotion (we actually had to ask one what the promotion was, since none of them were holding their signs up for us to see). By the time we left, they had a large number of touts and girls outside trying to pull customers in.

We really enjoyed the band at Tao, with many of their songs not being played by bands in other bars. Of course they play some of the obligatory "standards" you hear everywhere, but all in all the set list was fairly refreshing. They also seemed to keep the "Aussie!, Aussie!, Aussie!" thing to a minimum. As reported by another user, Tao is currently running a promotion on Singha Light, starting at 69 baht. When we left sometime after 11pm, the price was 79 baht. The place was only about half full at 11, and it appeared that most customers were drinking promotional beers, so my guess is that they're losing money at this point. Unlike Monsoon, they were definitely not doing enough volume to support the promotional pricing. Hopefully, they'll settle on pricing that's somewhere between the promotional price, and the current menu prices. We took a quick look at the drink menu, and noticed that MrsDave's favorite (San Mig Light) was priced at 180 baht, which to me seems a bit steep (especially after paying 60 baht for the same beer at the restaurant we were at a few minutes earlier). I know, not a fair comparison (restaurant vs bar with band), but it stuck in my mind.

When we left Tao sometime after 11pm, and Bangla seemed a little busier than its been recently. The bars in Tiger2 were full of customers as far back as I could see, and many of the small bars fronting Bangla were full as well. On the other hand, there were a number of bars on Bangla that were absolutely dead, while a similar bar next door was packed. We stopped at the head of Soi Freedom, but didn't go down because we could see that the band at the opposite end wasn't playing, so I don't know how the Soi Freedom bars were doing.

[xylophone]

Took a quick tour of Bangla last night after dinner, and popped in to Tao after seeing the reports by xylophone and others.

At 8:30, the 8-piece Filipino band was playing, and we were the only customers in the bar. I kind of like the setup with the band at the back, and the bar in the front, although that's probably not the best business-wise. The owner has obviously spent some money on the build-out as it has a nice feel. The biggest problem I see with the physical layout is that there are a couple of large structural posts that are in the line of sight between some of the tables and the stage. Removing those and installing a larger beam would probably have been way too expensive.

When we arrived, Tao had only a few touts out in the street advertising their promotion (we actually had to ask one what the promotion was, since none of them were holding their signs up for us to see). By the time we left, they had a large number of touts and girls outside trying to pull customers in.

We really enjoyed the band at Tao, with many of their songs not being played by bands in other bars. Of course they play some of the obligatory "standards" you hear everywhere, but all in all the set list was fairly refreshing. They also seemed to keep the "Aussie!, Aussie!, Aussie!" thing to a minimum. As reported by another user, Tao is currently running a promotion on Singha Light, starting at 69 baht. When we left sometime after 11pm, the price was 79 baht. The place was only about half full at 11, and it appeared that most customers were drinking promotional beers, so my guess is that they're losing money at this point. Unlike Monsoon, they were definitely not doing enough volume to support the promotional pricing. Hopefully, they'll settle on pricing that's somewhere between the promotional price, and the current menu prices. We took a quick look at the drink menu, and noticed that MrsDave's favorite (San Mig Light) was priced at 180 baht, which to me seems a bit steep (especially after paying 60 baht for the same beer at the restaurant we were at a few minutes earlier). I know, not a fair comparison (restaurant vs bar with band), but it stuck in my mind.

When we left Tao sometime after 11pm, and Bangla seemed a little busier than its been recently. The bars in Tiger2 were full of customers as far back as I could see, and many of the small bars fronting Bangla were full as well. On the other hand, there were a number of bars on Bangla that were absolutely dead, while a similar bar next door was packed. We stopped at the head of Soi Freedom, but didn't go down because we could see that the band at the opposite end wasn't playing, so I don't know how the Soi Freedom bars were doing.

Like you and "Lashay" have posted, and I mentioned in a post a while ago before Tao opened, I don't believe he has got this quite right because he seems to be trying to meld several themes together and even if that were to work, the place isn't big enough (IMO) to support the amount of people needed to make a profit – – even with San Miguel Light at 180 baht per bottle, which is what he charges in "Suzie Wongs".

From what I have seen, Monsoon and NY seem to be the bars which are pulling in the punters at the moment with some of the bars fronting Bangla being quite busy.

Interesting to hear from "Lashay" about Soi Crocodile being renovated and notwithstanding the fact that they think they can do it in two months, I wonder how the "new" bars are going to be different from the old ones because that Soi has been on a downward spiral for at least a couple of years and we have seen what happened when Soi Eric was "remodelled/renovated/whatever"...........it didn't change a thing and an already dying Soi now has a new name!

Interesting to note your comment about "Tiger 2" because as I walked down the length of the thing on the way home, I was able to see further into the place and sure there were more punters than there had been previously, however nowhere near what there used to be and they were quite thinly spread. Furthermore with six or eight girls at a bar, supporting four farangs, I'd imagine costs wouldn't have been covered.

On to the more general subject of "Patong is dead", I was speaking to the owner of a business in Sawatdirak road yesterday and apparently a large hotel on the left-hand side heading towards the beach, is due to be demolished at the end of this month, as is the adjoining restaurant, so that the already bare and flattened area at the corner of this and Beach Road will become even larger, this supposedly to make way for a large shopping complex/mall.

Reminds me of the line from the movie, "Field of Dreams"........... "build it and they will come....." So let's hope that the many billions of baht which would be spent on this do not result in a shopping complex full of stores selling dried fruits, seaweed and packet spices aimed at the burgeoning Chinese market, because it ain't going to work!

[DrDave]

<snip>

On to the more general subject of "Patong is dead", I was speaking to the owner of a business in Sawatdirak road yesterday and apparently a large hotel on the left-hand side heading towards the beach, is due to be demolished at the end of this month, as is the adjoining restaurant, so that the already bare and flattened area at the corner of this and Beach Road will become even larger, this supposedly to make way for a large shopping complex/mall.

Reminds me of the line from the movie, "Field of Dreams"........... "build it and they will come....." So let's hope that the many billions of baht which would be spent on this do not result in a shopping complex full of stores selling dried fruits, seaweed and packet spices aimed at the burgeoning Chinese market, because it ain't going to work!

<snip>

Yes, I had also heard about that resort on Sawatdirak.

One of my relatives in the US has been staying there whenever in Phuket over many years. When I told him that the entire corner area of Sawatdirak and Beach Rd had been demolished, he told me that the staff at that resort had informed him on his previous visit that they would be demolished soon. Really sad, as that is a very nice resort with lots of good reviews on social media.

Edited August 18, 2015 by DrDave

[Peterocket]

“Since the launch in 2012 Phuket has been a solid success story. The fact that we are now adding a further four weekly flights highlights not only the desirability of the destination but also the demand for passengers wishing to travel with Emirates,” said Thierry Antinori, Emirates’ Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer.

Obviously another global company that hasn't been reading Thai Visa.

[xylophone]

As has been said many times on here, the demographics have certainly changed and the fact that Emirates is putting on more flights could reflect that, with more passengers than there used to be coming from that part of the world, not to mention Brits who are choosing to travel with Emirates on their way back to the UK.

Airlines will put on more flights/seats at any time if they think they are going to fill them, just the same as Virgin have decided to scrap the flights from Perth to Phuket because they couldn't fill them. In the past JetStar has changed its flight schedules to suit seasonal variations, and it is just as easy for an airline to wind back the flights as it is to increase them.

Sure the topic is "Patong is dead" but quite probably no one wants to see it "die", however there is no denying the feedback of small business owners whom I know, who say that in reality business has and is dropping off and what with the last season being probably the worst "high season" ever, and this "low season" being lower than ever, and businesses on the periphery closing down at a fairly rapid rate, then it may not be "dead" but it needs something soon to take it off life support!

[NamKangMan]

“Since the launch in 2012 Phuket has been a solid success story. The fact that we are now adding a further four weekly flights highlights not only the desirability of the destination but also the demand for passengers wishing to travel with Emirates,” said Thierry Antinori, Emirates’ Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer.

Obviously another global company that hasn't been reading Thai Visa.

I checked out the quote in your post, Peterocket.

It was in the PW, which I can not post the link to, but it was also reported on the below link, which I can post.

http://www.businessclass.co.uk/emirates-adds-four-weekly-flights-to-phuket/

The next part of the comment by Antinori was this:

"These new flights have been well timed to not only maximise connections across our network but also allow for a morning arrival in Phuket, giving travellers even more time to enjoy the island and its surrounds.”

The article in the PW then stated, what many here know, the following:

"Phuket island is the gateway to southern Thailand, making it easier for people to expand their travels to Khao Lak, Phang Nga, Koh Samui, Trang, Krabi and Koh Lipe."

I would suggest, the real reason for the popularity of the early arrival flights to Phuket is because people can transit Phuket, and it's not about having "even more time to enjoy the island."

So, with the "morning arrival" being popular, and Phuket being a "gateway" to other tourist destinations in Thailand - what does that tell you?

It's been common knowledge for several years now that tourists flying into Phuket Airport enjoy cheap flights, and are counted as Phuket tourists. In reality, many of these use Phuket Airport as there entry and exit point, and spend little to no time on Phuket, at all.

Most likely why TV member Simon's airport hotels are doing well.

Furthermore, Emirates increases, whilst Virgin cuts a their service from Perth to Phuket, whilst their Perth to Bali route increases in popularity.

Edited August 20, 2015 by NamKangMan

[NamKangMan]

As has been said many times on here, the demographics have certainly changed and the fact that Emirates is putting on more flights could reflect that, with more passengers than there used to be coming from that part of the world, not to mention Brits who are choosing to travel with Emirates on their way back to the UK.

Airlines will put on more flights/seats at any time if they think they are going to fill them, just the same as Virgin have decided to scrap the flights from Perth to Phuket because they couldn't fill them. In the past JetStar has changed its flight schedules to suit seasonal variations, and it is just as easy for an airline to wind back the flights as it is to increase them.

Sure the topic is "Patong is dead" but quite probably no one wants to see it "die", however there is no denying the feedback of small business owners whom I know, who say that in reality business has and is dropping off and what with the last season being probably the worst "high season" ever, and this "low season" being lower than ever, and businesses on the periphery closing down at a fairly rapid rate, then it may not be "dead" but it needs something soon to take it off life support!

"not to mention Brits who are choosing to travel with Emirates on their way back to the UK" - interesting comment, xp.

I agree, Emirites is popular with Brits, which leads to the question, how many Brit expats on Phuket travel back to the UK for a visit on Emirates, and then back to Phuket on Emirates, and are also counted as a "tourist arrival" when in fact, they simply live here?

"the topic is "Patong is dead" but quite probably no one wants to see it "die" - no farang wants to see Phuket die.

As I have said before, when I struggle to find a Sunday roast, for example, on Phuket, either because I have to travel far for a place offering it, or it's ridiculously expensive, but there is fried rice and Peking duck on every second corner, then it's time for me to go.

Like yourself, I know what I observe here, and the business owners I talk to, Thai and farang, even the farang that used to "talk up" their business, possibly to avoid embarrassment, are now saying times are very tough.

[xylophone]

Took a quick tour of Bangla last night after dinner, and popped in to Tao after seeing the reports by xylophone and others.

At 8:30, the 8-piece Filipino band was playing, and we were the only customers in the bar. I kind of like the setup with the band at the back, and the bar in the front, although that's probably not the best business-wise. The owner has obviously spent some money on the build-out as it has a nice feel. The biggest problem I see with the physical layout is that there are a couple of large structural posts that are in the line of sight between some of the tables and the stage. Removing those and installing a larger beam would probably have been way too expensive.

When we arrived, Tao had only a few touts out in the street advertising their promotion (we actually had to ask one what the promotion was, since none of them were holding their signs up for us to see). By the time we left, they had a large number of touts and girls outside trying to pull customers in.

We really enjoyed the band at Tao, with many of their songs not being played by bands in other bars. Of course they play some of the obligatory "standards" you hear everywhere, but all in all the set list was fairly refreshing. They also seemed to keep the "Aussie!, Aussie!, Aussie!" thing to a minimum. As reported by another user, Tao is currently running a promotion on Singha Light, starting at 69 baht. When we left sometime after 11pm, the price was 79 baht. The place was only about half full at 11, and it appeared that most customers were drinking promotional beers, so my guess is that they're losing money at this point. Unlike Monsoon, they were definitely not doing enough volume to support the promotional pricing. Hopefully, they'll settle on pricing that's somewhere between the promotional price, and the current menu prices. We took a quick look at the drink menu, and noticed that MrsDave's favorite (San Mig Light) was priced at 180 baht, which to me seems a bit steep (especially after paying 60 baht for the same beer at the restaurant we were at a few minutes earlier). I know, not a fair comparison (restaurant vs bar with band), but it stuck in my mind.

When we left Tao sometime after 11pm, and Bangla seemed a little busier than its been recently. The bars in Tiger2 were full of customers as far back as I could see, and many of the small bars fronting Bangla were full as well. On the other hand, there were a number of bars on Bangla that were absolutely dead, while a similar bar next door was packed. We stopped at the head of Soi Freedom, but didn't go down because we could see that the band at the opposite end wasn't playing, so I don't know how the Soi Freedom bars were doing.

I looked in on Tao at 10 p.m. a couple of days ago and it was almost empty, and again when I looked in at 1 a.m. it had around five people in it, although as you have said, Bangla did seem a little busier, but this bar/venue didn't seem to have the pulling power.

As regards the band at Soi Freedom, DrDave, they do have a break between 10:45 p.m. and 11:15 p.m. So perhaps you caught them in their break time?

[Lashay]

I looked in on Tao at 10 p.m. a couple of days ago and it was almost empty, and again when I looked in at 1 a.m. it had around five people in it, although as you have said, Bangla did seem a little busier, but this bar/venue didn't seem to have the pulling power.

As regards the band at Soi Freedom, DrDave, they do have a break between 10:45 p.m. and 11:15 p.m. So perhaps you caught them in their break time?

Tao is just not working, besides opening night yet to see it even half full again (and it's not that big). Pity really, like the "style" of the place (and effort/money they put in) as it's a bit more up market than most other places along the main strip.

But the layout and the enclosing make no sense and the changes from bar>live music>club as the night goes on is pretty much a classic example of trying to appeal to everyone, thus appealing to no one.

If was me, would drop the club aspect (to much serious competition around) , move the bar counter and open/remove the windows and make either a proper live music venue or traditional (but higher class) girl bar

[xylophone]

I looked in on Tao at 10 p.m. a couple of days ago and it was almost empty, and again when I looked in at 1 a.m. it had around five people in it, although as you have said, Bangla did seem a little busier, but this bar/venue didn't seem to have the pulling power.

As regards the band at Soi Freedom, DrDave, they do have a break between 10:45 p.m. and 11:15 p.m. So perhaps you caught them in their break time?

Tao is just not working, besides opening night yet to see it even half full again (and it's not that big). Pity really, like the "style" of the place (and effort/money they put in) as it's a bit more up market than most other places along the main strip.

But the layout and the enclosing make no sense and the changes from bar>live music>club as the night goes on is pretty much a classic example of trying to appeal to everyone, thus appealing to no one.

If was me, would drop the club aspect (to much serious competition around) , move the bar counter and open/remove the windows and make either a proper live music venue or traditional (but higher class) girl bar

Agree, and there are a few others posting on here who also agree and it's a shame really because a lot of money has been spent on the place but there again, it just goes to show that throwing money at something doesn't necessarily guarantee its success, especially if its theme, layout and size are sending out mixed messages as to what it really is.

I would imagine the owner (I know him but won't disclose his name here) will be worried about the attendance there, this especially as places such as Monsoon and NY are absolutely buzzing.

Something related to the thread is the fact that in the Phuket Gazette there is an article stating that the airport is absolutely full with incoming tourists and this has been backed up by several posters in the Gazette. All I've got to say about that is, if they are coming here, they are not spending any money!!

And of course they could quite easily be the Chinese on cheap packaged holidays, so they are not really going to help the economy here too much. But perhaps they are more preferable to the Aussie bogans I saw In Soi Freedom the other night, although I have to say that the guys weren't too bad, but the women (I'm being kind here) were an absolute nightmare, and I don't know what they were on, if indeed it was just alcohol, but they were an absolute menace to the band and had to be warned several times by the security guys not to touch or interfere with the guys/girl in the band.

Finally, at the south end of Nanai Road, in the French/African quarter, a few more shops have their shutters down and a couple of small hotels/guesthouses have also closed.

[DrDave]

<snip>

Finally, at the south end of Nanai Road, in the French/African quarter, a few more shops have their shutters down and a couple of small hotels/guesthouses have also closed.

On a similar note, I noticed that the newish small restaurant on Soi 8 across from the Vietnamese/Thai place has closed and is now occupied by yet another massage shop. I believe that this restaurant which was in a new building, featured western food, and was opened less than a year ago.

On a positive note, the people that own that little Vietnamese/Thai place on Soi 8 have opened a nice, bigger restaurant on Sai Kor next to the snooker club and opposite Galaxy. The name is "Doodee" and it's a nice, clean place with a big menu and beers starting at 40 baht.

Getting back to the comment that the band at the end of Soi Freedom takes a break between 10:45 and 11:15, that's definitely the time that we passed by. I'll keep that in mind for our next foray into Bangla, which unfortunately won't be for another month or so.

[schlog]

The newest figures after the bombing indicates that we will see deserted roads in Patong in the coming super lowseason months september-november.

http://goo.gl/6eHnir

[JetsetBkk]

The newest figures after the bombing indicates that we will see deserted roads in Patong in the coming super lowseason months september-november.

http://goo.gl/6eHnir

We can but hope.

[xylophone]

I was talking to a friend today who has been here for around ten years and he stated that he thought Bangla had changed so much that it held nothing for him now and even though he might visit the place for something to eat, he would go straight home afterwards, whereas before he would linger in some of the bars and people watch, but now he said there was "nothing worth watching".

The more I thought about this, the more I wondered EXACTLY what had changed and when I asked him the question he went on to describe the Sois in Bangla that had closed/disappeared, along with the beer bars, and so on.

My question to him then was well if all that has changed is the fact that some beer bars have disappeared and have been replaced by others, for example at one time there was only one Tiger complex, now there are two, then there is no real "change" per se. And one can still "people watch" if one wanted to.

Sure, great pubs like Scruffy Murphy's have disappeared, but then other venues have opened up that weren't there before, so one could argue that the only change has been change and nothing startling at that.

The more I thought about this, the more his comments puzzled me, so I suggested that maybe it was him who had changed (along with me to a certain extent) and that we were over it now? Sure the demographics have changed, but Bangla remains that which it always was, a place full of bars, go-go clubs and discos along with the liberal sprinkling of girls.

I then tied this conversation to one that I've had over the past month with quite a few people who have come here for the first time. A group of five guys from the USA were having a great time and thought the place was "fantastic"; a couple of guys from different parts of Australia were here for the first time and thought it was great and were keen to find ways in which they could stay, even asking what business opportunities there were here; a large group of students from Denmark also said the same thing...............

My point is that the first-time visitors here think the place is just great and want to come back, much the same as perhaps we did, say 10 years ago, and perhaps Bangla has changed but only in as much as that change happens, and the point being that I/we are so used to it now that it has lost its gloss, but the first timers are just as keen and eager to come back as we were all those years ago.

Perhaps those of us lamenting the fact that "Patong is dead" still have the old times in mind and just the same as has happened in many towns and cities around the world, the demographics change and with it the centres of entertainment, small businesses, restaurants, shops etc, leaving many to close down and many more to open up.........food for thought perhaps.

[phuketlive]

Was driving on nanai, there used to be an italian restaurant named Vecchia Puglia who closed a few months or weeks ago.

Near aussie divers shop i think.

It seems that some thai people took over the place who was for rent or it's the owner of the guesthouse there, i dont know.

But there is a sign in the front that says, "Happy Hour Cocktails 180 bahts"...

... this area is dead and they hope to sell expensive drinks there... Good luck then....

Looks like these people still think farangs have money to spend like this and i guess they dont even know how to do cocktails anyway...

Edited August 26, 2015 by phuketlive

[simon43]

...and the point being that I/we are so used to it now that it has lost its gloss

Sorry for not quoting you in full (I'm saving space...)

For me, Bangla has changed. I remember 8-10 years ago that the girls were not lard-buckets, and they did not have their snouts stuck in their mobile phones all night, (and nowadays except for the brief moment to demand a lady drink from me that apparently no longer requires the lady to sit with me for more than 15 seconds).

Edited August 26, 2015 by simon43

[DrDave]

I think that Xylophone has made some very valid points. Essentially, Patong isn't "dead", but rather some aspects have changed. Many of us have noticed changes on Bangla from a few years past, most notably for me, the "fun factor" in the smaller bars. Most of the side sois off of Bangla have been remodeled or transitioned into something different, changing the "feel" of the area. But only those who have been around for a while really notice this. When I think of years past, I remember that many of the bars in the center area of Seadragon would be void of customers while the bars that lined the soi would be packed. The same for some of the bars fronting Bangla itself - just as today, it wouldn't be uncommon to see some of the smaller bars with few to no customers. The biggest change, from my perspective, is that we now have larger music venues such as Monsoon, NY Live, Red Hot and Tao in addition to the nightclubs that have always been in the upstairs areas. Whether or not these venues have taken customers away from the small bars, I'm really don't know. The other change, as pointed out by Simon43 would be the customer experience inside the bars, which I agree has changed over the years. I imagine those who were here when Bangla was a dirt road, and you could rent a bungalow on the beach would also have a different perspective, as the experience would have been vastly different then as well. As Xylophone alluded, new visitors don't have the historical point of reference in the back of their minds, so it's all new to them and they seem to enjoy it nonetheless.

If we think about all of the (over)development that has foolishly occurred in Patong over the past 5 years or so, it comes as no surprise that businesses in the outlying areas (Sai Kor and Nanai) are struggling. It seems that tourist numbers never ramped up to the levels that would support the amount of development that occurred in those areas. So I guess that what I'm trying to say in all of these ramblings is that no, Patong is not dead as the core areas seem to be doing nearly as well as in the past, however the overdevelopment that took place over the past few years has had a negative impact on the economic picture of Patong when taken as a whole.