Dowry / sinsod - how do I legally bring the money to Thailand?

[louse1953]

OP responds:

Hi everyone and thank you for your thoughtful responses. I am currently in the US so the messages all came while I was sleeping. Many of the comments had questions and deserve a response. So I am happy to speak to that.

My GF is not a bar girl and doesn't drink. She works full time in a Big C mall. She is not from Issan (and is quick to mention that) but is from Arunyaputhet in Si SaKao. Her family gave us their blessings only after we met all of the grandparents and relatives and long before discussion of sin-sod. She and her family have never asked for money from me and have been uncomfortable when we bring them gifts when we come to visit. One time at her family's house my GF asked me for some money to go pick up some groceries. Her mother lectured her and told her she should go into town to the ATM and use her own money because I was their guest.

I exaggerated when I said it seemed the whole village was there. Several aunties and cousins arrived to negotiate since they spoke some English and another one came with an old Buddhist book she consulted to determine auspicious dates. The communication problem came from the fact that we had been talking about whether I could help them build a new home. I said yes up to about TB500,000. I have heard it costs about $1m up to build a house in the city and I hoped they could build a small home in the country for that. I intended that amount to include the house and the sin-sod. I assumed I would not have to pay a large sinsod because my fiancée has a 5 year old girl I would need to support (she never married before). I learned later that the father believed the 500k was for sinsod alone. The wedding will not be large and her family will pay all the costs.

I posted my question because I worried about carrying that much cash. At my first wedding I brought AmEx travel checks which was good since someone stole some of the money and we got it back. And I don't trust that Thai authorities would not impound the money saying they had to "investigate." Also, I didn't know if there would be a problem with the banks for large cash deposits. So all those responses were very helpful.

As to whether a sinsod should even be paid. I went through that the first time around. At that time I was appalled by the idea. However, after time went by, I realized that this was a very old tradition and I should learn to respect the Thai ways. I was married to an Isaan woman for 12 years and have many Thai friends. The marriage ended but not for any reasons other than of our own making.

I will return to BKK in a few days and we will talk this over. I may suggest we put off the wedding and only do an engagement party instead (and give some money to the folks). That might help everyone save face. I am happy living with my girlfriend in a house we rent in Minburi. Neither of us is pushing for a wedding, but the extended family is. And now that a large amount of money has entered the discussion, its making it uncomfortable. I have been following the forum for a few months but this is my first post. Lots of good stuff here. Since there was so much interest in this question, I'll post an update for those that want to know the outcome.

Your money,your life,it's all upto you.2nd hand goods,no sinsod buddy.The extended family smell a cash cow.No marrige at all would be my advice.Get a few monks in for a singsong and a knees up and your married,Thai style.They should be paying you to take tarnished goods of their hands.

[Pieter1964]

Run forest, run, and never look back. Never pay 500.000 thai bath for a woman. You will never see it back. They are farm family, they not know what 500K is, never seen it before.

As earlier said, what a thai man would pay? Well, I guess not more then 10.000

Leave her and the family and never see them again.

Next they will ask you for a 800K pickup toyota and a new house and more more more.

Stop this nonsense at once and put your foot down.

If she not accept, then leave her to get married to a farm boy and work the rest of her life like her family on the farm.

[shirtless]

Dont worry about the money mate its gone already, your going down an expensive road , run mate.

[ricardofel]

This is not rocket science. You wire the money from the US to your Thai bank account. Must be a HiSo or soso girl you are marrying to pay that much. For the wedding I would not bring that much cash. Bank chek is fine

[FireMedic]

Drive to BKK and rent a room in a high rise. Give her the money and then jump off the balcony. You are headed for the long fall like the rest of them. Save yourself years of trouble and Peter Pan off the 20th floor. We will read about it soon enough.

[daveAustin]

I would go with your plan of putting it off for a 'later' date. Now that we know she has a kid etc. Face will be lost, but that's not your concern. Dowry is not paying for your wife, it is a front that you can show you have the means to take care of her. Sadly, many of these grubby, extended families just want to get their hands on it and don't care about the couple. If it comes to it at a later date, say you've had a downturn in your job and can now only show 50k. 500k might now be much to you, but don't let dolts take you for a ride.

[stoli]

"Suggestions?"

RUN!

Family rural farmers, newbie signed up today dropping 500k on woman, etc. I smell a troll.

However, at the slim chance you ain't and for the benefit of others... if you do go down that road, make sure you get most of it back, which IS the Thai way. Cashier's cheque wouldn't work as the whole point is to show off to everyone what their daughter is 'worth'. Also ask yourself, would a Thai man put up that kind of money for this lady.

Thanks for that. And I do worry. However, they did not ask for the money and neither my gf nor her family have ever asked for money. It came up at meeting with all of her village and they asked what I would pay. I made the offer, based on the fact I had paid $10k to my first wife's family 12 years ago. They built a new home and never asked for more. I think you are probably right about the check - although they could waive it around at everybody to see lol.

I keep reminding myself that $15k in the US will only get you a used pickup truck - maybe the same in Thailand. And she is worth so much more to me than a truck (well, depending on the model - just kidding,)

Anyway - my concern is about safety and not having trouble with the bank or immigration people.

HUH? A village said you must pay and future family doesnt decide? Only thing I can say is you deserve all the crazy things that will happen to you in this bought and paid for marriage.

But on a serious note, you can bring 19,999 US dollars into Thailand without declaring it.

I really hope this is a troll post.

I am going to guess when you wrote 19,999 US dollars that you meant $9,999 US dollars. It has been a $9,999 limit forever. That is the most you can bring without declaring it. However, you can bring any amount that you wish to bring; you just have to declare it. No big deal, just some paperwork. They are just looking for money laundering or drug dealers, but you still have a right to bring your money in. Ask anyone that has purchased a condo here. You bring your money, declare it, and that is it. If they catch you with drugs later, kiss your ass good-bye.

[neeray]

As a Canadian, I am allowed to take $20,000 into Thailand without declaration. I assume similar for an American.

I think you are perfectly safe to carry $15,000 in a money belt.

I just spent 4 weeks in the south of Thailand and didn't even think about theft.

And by the way, my fiancés daughter just got married on Christmas Day. When the groom's family asked how much she wanted for her daughter, she said "my daughter is not for sale, if you have money to give, give it to the newlyweds". I was very proud of that answer. They gave the couple $8,000.

[HeijoshinCool]

can't point the finger as I paid and always regretted it, got half back, less than half of the test went on the wedding but where the remainder went to I never did find out.

.

[NeverSure]

can't point the finger as I paid and always regretted it, got half back, less than half of the test went on the wedding but where the remainder went to I never did find out.

.

[lostmebike]

`but Sinsod is Thai culture` some of you say.

Yet she wants to marry a FOREIGNER. Let the Thai`s wave money around trying to impress people. Westerners don`t buy wives, sure we pay hookers but the OP clearly states which one his `good` lady is.

Sinsod is not a western tradition! She wants to marry a farang so should understand it`s done differently.

To all you know-it-alls that claim this is only an isaan thing, WRONG! Thai families will try it if they think the farang is dumb enough to pay it.

[thehelmsman]

The question was how to get money to Thailand not the rest of the BS. Wire transfer or cash. No need to declare anything. $15,000 cash is only 2 small envelopes with 100's. I've take double that into Thailand. no problem

[Straight8]

To all you know-it-alls that claim this is only an isaan thing, WRONG! Thai families will try it if they think the farang is dumb enough to pay it.

I agree with you to a point.

Thai families think farangs fly half way around the world just to marry their daughters , so they must be worth it, hence IMO they will try it [in most cases] regardless. All farangs are dumb!!!

They really have nothing to lose, but quite a lot to gain.

[ozyjon]

You are being scammed

has she been married before

can she speak English

is she a bargirl

If you answered yes to any of the above,

you are being scammed by illiterate rice

farmers and you will never see your cash again.

kee kwai

[smotherb]

Transfer it to your fiancée's Thai account and then withdraw it after you arrive.

Thanks, that's an excellent idea. I also have her mom's account number. The problem is that when I talked to my bank they told me that Siam Commercial Bank has 3 different SWIFT numbers and I have to know the right one. I can't seem to communicate that to my gf because of language differences. But I will work on that approach. I would also rather hand over the money at the wedding, not before for practical and symbolic reasons.

Seems real easy--she will no doubt understand if you tell her she will get no money until she goes to the bank and gets the proper routing numbers to accept the transfer; and if the number is wrong, no more money will be sent. You can, of course, get a translated message prepared at any Thai consulate/embassy or at many other places.

However, I believe the sinsod thing is somewhat misunderstood. As a Thai friend tells me, if the girl is not well-educated and still a virgin, the sinsod is not required, or is greatly reduced. If the girl has children, been married before or worked in the sex industry, no sinsod is deserved or shoud be expected. He added, any family which demands sinsod for a former prostitiute is banking on the farang's stupidity.

In my opinion, sinsod is just another form of barfine. I recommend you tell her and her family that you do not do sinsod and if they need money, you will give them the exact amount of money they give your family. However, assure them, you will share your life and assets with her; and mean it. If not, why bother getting married?

[maidee]

maybe he writes the check and dates in on the thai year in stead of western, so good to cash in 500+ years ?

[Jungle Jim]

My first question is: Why ? And agree 500,000 baht is way too much. Sorry to say i would be very wary of the entire situation. My girlfriend of nearly sixteen years who i soon plan to marry. Asks for nothing nor would her parents ever ask for anything.

[maidee]

sin sod, my wife said, is to pay the mother for the tittie milk

so i asked my wife, did your mother breastfeed you ?

her answer was no : her mother wanted to keep her tits intact ... (kind of vain woman, acting/dressing like teenager still now when almost 60)

and that is why i never paid sin sod ...

[Jungle Jim]

Totally agree. And my other question is where did he meet his lovely so called girlfriend.

You are being scammed

has she been married before

can she speak English

is she a bargirl

If you answered yes to any of the above,

you are being scammed by illiterate rice

farmers and you will never see your cash again.

kee kwai

[Jungle Jim]

You mean plane loads of fools land here every day.

A fool lands here everyday. I await his divorce story. No true relationship begins with a large cash payment. That's called a business arrangement. Here the buyer is usually the looser.

[Pik]

OH boy, here we go again

Pay now, Pay later, Pay all the time until your savings are gone.

When You have nothing left, they will be happy when you go back home

[Jungle Jim]

Tell them from the start you are not rich. Take it or leave it. If they do not walk away you likely have someone worth having a REAL relationship with. The question you really have to ask yourself is. Would you date or marry a girl hooker or one you met in a bar? If that is the case you deserve everything you get.

[BKK Beat]

Rural Farmers They just hit the Jackpot with 500,000 Sin Sod My good sir. No one other than someone who does NOT understand Thai

culture pays 500,000 Sin sod for a country girl. Someone coming from a well healed City Girl with rich parents then maybe you will pay 500,000.

I feel very sorry for you . You will be married for a couple of years and then presto The girl has done her job and you she will finish with you

This is what a lot of farm girls do is get money for their poor family by what ever means possible. If you said 100,00 ok or if you said 200,000 then that would be a stretch but acceptable but this is a farmer and their daughter not a rich girls family.

I feel sorry for you I have lived here 12 years and rarely if ever hear about a 500,000 baht sin sod

I disagree, but it's my nature to be contrarian.

Works well in this place.

[Gerard052]

As a Canadian, I am allowed to take $20,000 into Thailand without declaration. I assume similar for an American.

I think you are perfectly safe to carry $15,000 in a money belt.

I just spent 4 weeks in the south of Thailand and didn't even think about theft.

And by the way, my fiancés daughter just got married on Christmas Day. When the groom's family asked how much she wanted for her daughter, she said "my daughter is not for sale, if you have money to give, give it to the newlyweds". I was very proud of that answer. They gave the couple $8,000.

I am also a Canadian and the maximum allowed without declaration is $ 10,000.00, I don't know where you got your information from but I hope that if you carry more than the amount allowed you don't get caught or you could be in for an unpleasant surprise. I always carry more but I fill out the form that I download from the Internet and at the airport I go to the office and give it to a Border Agent, simple and without hassle.

[sandyf]

Transfer it to your fiancée's Thai account and then withdraw it after you arrive.

Thanks, that's an excellent idea. I also have her mom's account number. The problem is that when I talked to my bank they told me that Siam Commercial Bank has 3 different SWIFT numbers and I have to know the right one. I can't seem to communicate that to my gf because of language differences. But I will work on that approach. I would also rather hand over the money at the wedding, not before for practical and symbolic reasons.

There are no numbers in the SWIFT code, all letters. You need her account number and name exactly as shown on account in addition to the SWIFT code

(From the SCB website)

2. ชื่อธนาคาร: Siam Commercial Bank PCL

3. รหัสธนาคาร (SWIFT CODE): SICOTHBK.

Not strictly true, personal accounts use the 8 character format and business accounts use 11 characters. The op's bank would have been correct if they did not realise it was a personal account.

[sandyf]

As a Canadian, I am allowed to take $20,000 into Thailand without declaration. I assume similar for an American.

I think you are perfectly safe to carry $15,000 in a money belt.

I just spent 4 weeks in the south of Thailand and didn't even think about theft.

And by the way, my fiancés daughter just got married on Christmas Day. When the groom's family asked how much she wanted for her daughter, she said "my daughter is not for sale, if you have money to give, give it to the newlyweds". I was very proud of that answer. They gave the couple $8,000.

I am also a Canadian and the maximum allowed without declaration is $ 10,000.00, I don't know where you got your information from but I hope that if you carry more than the amount allowed you don't get caught or you could be in for an unpleasant surprise. I always carry more but I fill out the form that I download from the Internet and at the airport I go to the office and give it to a Border Agent, simple and without hassle.

$10,000 USD or its equivalent is the international 'norm', unless the country has local currency regulations. You cannot take that amount of baht out of Thailand.

[Thomas Hannah]

There is a link on this topic ,Telling you what a sinsod is.ie.That it is not a dowry.Many things are correct.But a sinsod is a dowry.Were you buy the daughters loyalty to you.and not her family.It is an old custom.Were she becomes your property of respect to you.She cannot divorce you.And up to you if you have others.But she cannot.Since farangs have started to come and marry thai,s.The thai,s .Now see it as a way to talk thai culture and twist this to suit them.Now it has become.So that even thai girls ,believe it is custom that the rules are different for farrangs.If you do not pay a dowry to be ripped off.Her family will be laugh at.ie.Ex girlfreind was laughing one day on bus.I asked .whats so funny.She said,Farrang only paid 100,000 baht dowry.Thai pay more than this.I said .But the thai get there,s back in most cases .Only for show.Any man who gets married in modern day,Deserves everything they get.Most people dont know that marriage was created as owner ship of the girl.In every country.Even untill recently.In christian vows,The bride said .I WILL OBEY.Marrage is an out dated custom.

[mickjn]

Just put the money into her account

[sir charles IV]

I'm getting married next week. You can put it in my bank account if u like. I promise to give it to the bride's parents. Hihi

[kbelyeu]

http://www.customs.go.th/wps/wcm/connect/custen/traders+and+business/prohibited+and+restricted+items/currency/currency

19,999 without any declaration.

Kurt