No amnesty for wrongdoers

[Lite Beer]

CONSTITUTION WATCH
No amnesty for wrongdoers
NITIPOL KIRAVANICH
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- But reconciliation committee to be set up will be able to request a pardon for people who admit their actions

CHARTER DRAFTERS resolved yesterday that no amnesty will be granted to wrongdoers involved in political conflicts over recent years - but pardons would be offered if people admit doing wrong and accept some punishment.

Constitution Drafting Committee spokesman Kamnoon Sidhisamarn said a national reconciliation committee would be created under the new charter and would have the authority to request a pardon for wrongdoers, rather than an amnesty.

The CDC said wrongdoers must first admit to illegal activities or wrongdoing, then enter the justice system. The new committee would assess whether to request a pardon for them or not.

Kamnoon noted that amnesty would not be included in the constitution because it was tantamount to erasing illegal acts that people have done, but said pardons could be granted if illegal acts had not been dealt with.

Asked if the new panel that will request pardons for people needs approval by any agency, the CDC spokesman said one drafter proposed giving the authority to the Parliament president.

Other CDC members voiced concern about practical repercussions, saying that people serving time in prison and keen to receive pardons would have to wait until the charter comes into force and elections held, so a Parliament president could be installed first, because it was a long time off.

So the committee toyed with the idea that the authority of approving pardons may be given to the prime minister. But Kamnoon said it was uncertain if this would be included in the organic law.

Moreover, he said introducing a blanket amnesty similar to the one the previous administration tried would negatively affect national reconciliation.

The drafter said the new body to be set up under the charter would be made up of not more than 15 members, but it is unclear at this stage who or how they will be selected.

The CDC has gathered information from other countries about how to implement reconciliation plans for Thailand, including case studies from South Africa, and adapted ideas seen as suitable here.

The CDC spokesman said the new committee would gather facts in regard to what truly happened in past conflicts, then would ask people facing justice who want to give information to the body without exposing their identity and request a pardon.

The authority of the new committee as stated by the charter articles covers the study, analysis, writing of a report and finding facts related to past problems and disputes, in order to reduce conflicts in Thai society.

The committee would act as a coordinating organisation to prevent further disputes. Moreover, it will educate the public by promoting better understanding of past conflicts and issues.

As for its life span, the new body will be active only for five years and will be dissolved after that period unless the public votes in a referendum to extend it.

At least 50,000 eligible voters, the Parliament or cabinet could request a referendum to extend its term, although if endorsed via a plebiscite, the body could only continue to exist for another five years.

A source from the drafting committee said concrete measures to promote reconciliation would be stated in organic law to be drafted later by the subcommittee.

The CDC meeting yesterday was held behind closed doors and journalists were not allowed in. The drafters reasoned that reconciliation is highly sensitive and allowing the media to observe could have make drafters feel uncomfortable and obstruct them from freely expressing their thoughts. The committee also feared misinterpretation by the media, it claimed.

Committee members will resume their meeting on Monday out of town, in Pattaya.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/No-amnesty-for-wrongdoers-30254582.html

-- The Nation 2015-02-21

[chooka]

So we can expect to see the Mad Monk and Suthep shackled along with red shirts.

[Bluespunk]

The country needs to have a legal system that those in power are answerable to. It needs a legal system that makes it clear to those in power that abuse if power and criminality has consequences. It needs a legal system that applies to all, not just those outside the elite. It needs a legal system that cannot be bribed, corrupted, side stepped, manipulated and avoided.

It doesn't need a reconciliation commission, it needs law and order.

Gaol the guilty.

No amnesties.

No pardons because you admit to being a craven criminal scumbag.

Simply, a justice system that applies to all.

This whole reconciliation committee and its power to pardon appears to be little more than a stealth amnesty.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Bluespunk

[Reigntax]

So we can expect to see the Mad Monk and Suthep shackled along with red shirts.

And they should join the director general and his cohorts, corrupt police and authorities.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Reigntax

[tx22cb]

All wrong-doers.

Processed in chronological order (so the courts can't target just their perceived enemies).

Identical processes applied to every case.

Blind justice/neutral judges.

With the above provisos, even the most rabid Yellows/Reds would agree.

[djjamie]

Great…So that is yingluck, Tarrit, Nattawat and Jatuporn then?

I look forward to corrupt supporters of death to be held accountable.

Edited February 20, 2015 by djjamie

[MAJIC]

"No amnesty for wrongdoers"

Do I believe that? no! and Pigs don't fly either!

[gk10002000]

So what has become of the 2006 military coup leaders? General Prem Tinsulanonda, Chairman of the Privy Council, The new rulers, led by General Sonthi Boonyaratglin

[lewy67]

No amnesty for wrongdoers

Too late, as the first act of the NCPO was to grant itself an amnesty.

​Will the CDC recommend that this illegal amnesty be annulled and its proponents prosecuted for treason?

[aussieinthailand]

Great…So that is yingluck, Tarrit, Nattawat and Jatuporn then?

I look forward to corrupt supporters of death to be held accountable.

Ahhh there you are djjamie, how's your holiday away from your keyboard?

you've been conspicuously absent in a few not so favorable threads to your cause and hero lately, welcome back mate.

if your corrupt and found guilty and here's the kicker ( by an INDEPENDANT NON BIAS judicial system) then no, no amnesty, no pardons nothing, and the people selecting the panel for pardons, also a (kicker, INDEPENDANT............) something Thailand has had and still has a major problem with.

there is a time to break a law and that is if the law is repressive tyrannical, immoral, then yes and pardons after that.

Here's a Question for you djjamie, along with the person seen on cctv throwing a bomb over the wall at protesters, and should the protester that threw the bomb at police and blew apart the cop's leg,, pardons or both in gaol for the same crime, but with imprisonment extensions for actual harm to people?

I ask you this as you seem extremely one sided in your views, anything red is deplorable and anything yellow is justified, and it's not just me who is wondering this.

[chooka]

GreatSo that is yingluck, Tarrit, Nattawat and Jatuporn then?

I look forward to corrupt supporters of death to be held accountable.

Ahhh there you are djjamie, how's your holiday away from your keyboard?

you've been conspicuously absent in a few not so favorable threads to your cause and hero lately, welcome back mate.

if your corrupt and found guilty and here's the kicker ( by an INDEPENDANT NON BIAS judicial system) then no, no amnesty, no pardons nothing, and the people selecting the panel for pardons, also a (kicker, INDEPENDANT............) something Thailand has had and still has a major problem with.

there is a time to break a law and that is if the law is repressive tyrannical, immoral, then yes and pardons after that.

Here's a Question for you djjamie, along with the person seen on cctv throwing a bomb over the wall at protesters, and should the protester that threw the bomb at police and blew apart the cop's leg,, pardons or both in gaol for the same crime, but with imprisonment extensions for actual harm to people?

I ask you this as you seem extremely one sided in your views, anything red is deplorable and anything yellow is justified, and it's not just me who is wondering this.

I believe that the Junta rewrote legislation granting themselves and all those involved in ilegal acts to overthrow the government an amnesty.

[thesetat2013]

Can anyone tell me if there is a difference in the end result with being given amnesty or being pardoned. Either way they escape punishment and are free to go.

[Bluespunk]

Can anyone tell me if there is a difference in the end result with being given amnesty or being pardoned. Either way they escape punishment and are free to go.

Personally, not seeing any difference at all.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[ezzra]

The department of inactive post must be filling up by now,,, they can always start a new one,

name and shame and go to jail posts.....

[islandguy]

Perhaps a pardon will let them get back into politics? (Whoever 'they' are).

[TheDiva]

Can anyone tell me if there is a difference in the end result with being given amnesty or being pardoned. Either way they escape punishment and are free to go.

Personally, not seeing any difference at all.

The end result is the same, but it's the process that is the important difference.

An amnesty, be it a blanket or targeted (by date, definition etc.) amnesty is straightforward and (fairly) immune from bias - once a decision has been made on the definition who should be granted an amnesty it is difficult to selectively apply that amnesty to suit certain interests.

However by empowering a "committee" to request pardons, it gives that "committee" the ability to influence the granting of those pardons. For example the "wrong" kind of people can be deemed not to have satisfied the criteria depending on how the "committee" reads the "facts" provided to them. This is obviously ripe for political abuse. Why do you think that the junta appointed CDC are proposing this idea, rather than an amnesty?

[Srikcir]

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The country needs to have a legal system that those in power are answerable to. It needs a legal system that makes it clear to those in power that abuse if power and criminality has consequences. It needs a legal system that applies to all, not just those outside the elite. It needs a legal system that cannot be bribed, corrupted, side stepped, manipulated and avoided.

It doesn't need a reconciliation commission, it needs law and order.

Gaol the guilty.

No amnesties.

No pardons because you admit to being a craven criminal scumbag.

Simply, a justice system that applies to all.

This whole reconciliation committee and its power to pardon appears to be little more than a stealth amnesty.

AND it needs a legal system that cannot be subverted by military coups who immediately grant themselves exemptions from the legal system. There was no basis for NCPO to abolish the 2007 Constitution, even for the sake of "national security," other than to impose its own sense of a rule of law and avoid legal responsibility for its own crimes against the sovereignty of the Thai Peoples.

[rethaier]

"but pardons would be offered if people admit doing wrong and accept some punishment." And how pray tell is this a pardon.

[JCauto]

Sounds like a plea bargain, not an amnesty.

[Srikcir]

"a national reconciliation committee would be created under the new charter and would have the authority to request a pardon for wrongdoers, rather than an amnesty."

And so the sham of reform continues.

The NCPO clone CDC wants to establish another NCPO clone called a national reconcliation committee that will be authorized by the NCPO clone NLA. What a nice little circle of anarchists.

[halloween]

I believe that the Junta rewrote legislation granting themselves and all those involved in ilegal acts to overthrow the government an amnesty.

Well yes, that is a logical step when you are carrying out an inherently illegal, if necessary, act. But why was it necessary for a so-called democratic government to try to enact for themselves an amnesty while still in office? Was that not an admission that they knew that they were acting illegally?

[Bluespunk]

Can anyone tell me if there is a difference in the end result with being given amnesty or being pardoned. Either way they escape punishment and are free to go.

Personally, not seeing any difference at all.

The end result is the same, but it's the process that is the important difference.

An amnesty, be it a blanket or targeted (by date, definition etc.) amnesty is straightforward and (fairly) immune from bias - once a decision has been made on the definition who should be granted an amnesty it is difficult to selectively apply that amnesty to suit certain interests.

However by empowering a "committee" to request pardons, it gives that "committee" the ability to influence the granting of those pardons. For example the "wrong" kind of people can be deemed not to have satisfied the criteria depending on how the "committee" reads the "facts" provided to them. This is obviously ripe for political abuse. Why do you think that the junta appointed CDC are proposing this idea, rather than an amnesty?

Read the second post after the OP if you want to know what I think.

[halloween]

The first step to curing an illness is admitting that you've got a problem. Once you can see past the logic blocking mantra "we've dun nuffink wrong" and admit that your violence, supposedly in a good cause, was a crime, then you will be more likely to realise you have been lied to and manipulated by a criminal family to further their own illicit purposes.

BTW it might also be a good idea. Thaksin's 'Get Out of Jail Free' cards are now worth less than that hard shiny toilet tissue.

[smedly]

Perhaps a pardon will let them get back into politics? (Whoever 'they' are).

actually I believe the very opposite would in fact be correct

[smedly]

Sounds like a plea bargain, not an amnesty.

correct

[NoshowJones]

So we can expect to see the Mad Monk and Suthep shackled along with red shirts.

I would love to see that happen, but I won't hold my breath.

[TheDiva]

The end result is the same, but it's the process that is the important difference.

An amnesty, be it a blanket or targeted (by date, definition etc.) amnesty is straightforward and (fairly) immune from bias - once a decision has been made on the definition who should be granted an amnesty it is difficult to selectively apply that amnesty to suit certain interests.

However by empowering a "committee" to request pardons, it gives that "committee" the ability to influence the granting of those pardons. For example the "wrong" kind of people can be deemed not to have satisfied the criteria depending on how the "committee" reads the "facts" provided to them. This is obviously ripe for political abuse. Why do you think that the junta appointed CDC are proposing this idea, rather than an amnesty?

Read the second post after the OP if you want to know what I think.

The phrase "Why do you think etc." was not aimed at you specifically - it was addressed to all and sounded less pretentious than the grammatically correct "Why does one think the junta appointed CDC are proposing this idea......?"

[Bluespunk]

The end result is the same, but it's the process that is the important difference.

An amnesty, be it a blanket or targeted (by date, definition etc.) amnesty is straightforward and (fairly) immune from bias - once a decision has been made on the definition who should be granted an amnesty it is difficult to selectively apply that amnesty to suit certain interests.

However by empowering a "committee" to request pardons, it gives that "committee" the ability to influence the granting of those pardons. For example the "wrong" kind of people can be deemed not to have satisfied the criteria depending on how the "committee" reads the "facts" provided to them. This is obviously ripe for political abuse. Why do you think that the junta appointed CDC are proposing this idea, rather than an amnesty?

Read the second post after the OP if you want to know what I think.

The phrase "Why do you think etc." was not aimed at you specifically - it was addressed to all and sounded less pretentious than the grammatically correct "Why does one think the junta appointed CDC are proposing this idea......?"

Always been a big grammar fan myself but I get your point.

[ratcatcher]

So what has become of the 2006 military coup leaders? General Prem Tinsulanonda, Chairman of the Privy Council, The new rulers, led by General Sonthi Boonyaratglin

gk, you've been here long enough to know that the first name you mentioned is behind a door that is not open to the public.

The second man is probably enjoying his wealth, along with his two wives, and perhaps the odd lunch at the Army Club.

Were you expecting anything else?