Is Suvarnabhumi Airport Really Ready

[solent01]

Hi All

Coming from an Avition background, I am a little concerned that Suvarnabhumi Airport is yet to meet ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization) safety standards, until these are met International carries will be advised not to operate in and out of there, if they choose to do so, thier insurance will be deemed void, as the Airport does not carry ICAO recognision.

For me as a Pilot that has great weight.

The talk amongst the aviation community is that Suvarnabhumi Airport will be pushed into action asap, leaving BKK Int. as an internal airport and freight carrier, I just hope that Thai politics don't come before safety.

Sol

[britmaveric]

I share your concerns, funny thing is ICAO or IATA yet to say anything on the matter and the cert process takes months.

[Thaiquila]

Thaksin is now saying the election will not occur on 15 October.

It seems there is some connection between the airport opening and the election (Thaksin wants it to open successfully to get a last minute jolt) so I am wondering if people think the hidden message is the airport opening will ALSO be delayed?

[britmaveric]

If I was a betting man I'd say elections have everything to do with it.

I have mates that are pilots that fly into Bangkok all the time, and they seem to point to next summer as the likely time frame.

[solent01]

I share your concerns, funny thing is ICAO or IATA yet to say anything on the matter and the cert process takes months.

Do a Google, ICAO already found 90 odd concerns, 1/3 of which deemed high risk.

Sol

[britmaveric]

I share your concerns, funny thing is ICAO or IATA yet to say anything on the matter and the cert process takes months.

Do a Google, ICAO already found 90 odd concerns, 1/3 of which deemed high risk.

Sol

28 JUL 2006 ICAO audit questions readiness of new Bangkok-Suvarnabhumi Airport

The ICAO has questioned the readiness of Bangkok`s new Suvarnabhumi Airport for its official opening on Sept 28. The ICAO report, based on its information collected and observations made between last month and early this month, identifies 29 high-risk areas - or about one-third of the 93 items on its checklist. Among the high-risk items identified by the ICAO in its report are the airfield visual aides including taxiway, apron and airside road signs, lights and markings. Failure to address them could lead to unsafe ground operations which `may contribute to an aircraft incident or accident`, the report says. The airport and Aviation Department are confident that all problems identified would be fixed in time for the official opening. (Bangkok Post)

http://aviation-safety.net/news/newsitem.php?id=1674

Actually meant no press releases on their websites. I'd think it would be major news - the opening of a brand new airport.

Edited August 31, 2006 by britmaveric

[solent01]

I share your concerns, funny thing is ICAO or IATA yet to say anything on the matter and the cert process takes months.

Do a Google, ICAO already found 90 odd concerns, 1/3 of which deemed high risk.

Sol

28 JUL 2006 ICAO audit questions readiness of new Bangkok-Suvarnabhumi Airport

The ICAO has questioned the readiness of Bangkok`s new Suvarnabhumi Airport for its official opening on Sept 28. The ICAO report, based on its information collected and observations made between last month and early this month, identifies 29 high-risk areas - or about one-third of the 93 items on its checklist. Among the high-risk items identified by the ICAO in its report are the airfield visual aides including taxiway, apron and airside road signs, lights and markings. Failure to address them could lead to unsafe ground operations which `may contribute to an aircraft incident or accident`, the report says. The airport and Aviation Department are confident that all problems identified would be fixed in time for the official opening. (Bangkok Post)

http://aviation-safety.net/news/newsitem.php?id=1674

Actually meant no press releases on their websites. I'd think it would be major news - the opening of a brand new airport.

Glad you found it, so an aircraft taxi'ing out in front of another landing aircraft is not high risk.......? I think YES, 8 to 10 seconds to reach full power, plus 20 to 30 seconds before you turn that thrust into lift, big big problem, however, I do know my carrier will not operate without ICAO, so I'm hoping this is all hypothetical

Sol

[solent01]

OK let me paint the picture

The weather is fine, all the 9's or as we say cav OK, you see a problem on approach, so call it up, then make a missed approach, no problem as such, just a lot of red faces, thiers not yours.

However, picture this......

Tropical storm, or just low cloud base say around 300 feet, can't see the ground, on the ball all the way, ILS nailed, vertical speed 350 to 400 feet a min, cloud goes to minimum, with an FAA license thats 250 foot, so lets say you brake cloud or lets say become vis at 250 foot, starting to get hairy if something is in the way, then put in full power, lets say only 5 secs as your already under some power for the let down, really depends if your on the money, if your high then lower power, YOUR NEVER LOW SO YOU NEVER HAVE A HIGH POWER SETTING. So you brake cloud select full power, now you wait, thrust in this case = speed, speed will then = lift, so you wait for full power, then wait for power to give airspeed, then you can climb, but if only you could, by this time your already in the side or ass of the aircraft in front.......... Doh........ That is high Risk, all because the markings on the ground are not as standard, and the aircraft in front didn't understand where to go or stop, of course tower, or ground handling should help, but they are very busy sorting out whats what in the new office.

Sol

Thought I better add this, I'm a JAA flight instructor and FAA PPL with IR, I know what flight safety means.....!!

Edited August 31, 2006 by solent01

[jbowman1993]

Picture this. A full certified airfield located in the US is staffed by only one air traffic controller. That controller has only had two hours sleep. He allows a commuter plane to taxi onto the wrong runway, which is much too short. It crashes, killing all 50 people aboard.

Sounds like science fiction right? It happened last week. You doomsayers have been flying in and out of Don Muang for more than 50 years, and it has NEVER been certified by any agency. Are all airlines who use Don Muang uninsured? Doubtful.

The fiction being passed around that these airports have to pass certain tests by a governing agency before flights are allowed, is just that - fiction. The international advisory board issued there comments and recommendations a few months ago, and the airport operators say they are correcting the problems. These are the same airport operators that you trust with your lives every time you fly in and out of Don Muang. It seems like hipocrasy to condemn them for one but not the other.

Edited September 1, 2006 by jbowman1993

[Minburi]

Did the Thai Government not say before they do not care if ICAO or IATA did not aprove of the new airport it was still going to open?

Sounds like the Thai government if you think about it. Ignore the icebergs full speed ahead.

(back to that whole loseing face situation again me thinks. As in the government does not want to look foolish)

[Minburi]

Picture this. A full certified airfield located in the US is staffed by only one air traffic controller. That controller has only had two hours sleep. He allows a commuter plane to taxi onto the wrong runway, which is much too short. It crashes, killing all 50 people aboard.

Sounds like science fiction right? It happened last week. You doomsayers have been flying in and out of Don Muang for more than 50 years, and it has NEVER been certified by any agency. Are all airlines who use Don Muang uninsured? Doubtful.

The fiction being passed around that these airports have to pass certain tests by a governing agency before flights are allowed, is just that - fiction. The international advisory board issued there comments and recommendations a few months ago, and the airport operators say they are correcting the problems. These are the same airport operators that you trust with your lives every time you fly in and out of Don Muang. It seems like hipocrasy to condemn them for one but not the other.

Actually the pilots took the wrong taxiway as there had been work done to the taxiways and they had been changed as in routing to get to the longer runway about 2 weeks earlier that the crew did not know about. As well the runway and taxi lights were not working which did not help and that was discussed by the crew as they got ready for takeoff. Sound slike the FAA by the way was saying it appears to the flight crews fault on a CNN report I saw but I thik its a little early to be pointing fingers for blame.

Edited September 1, 2006 by Minburi

[visarunner]

Two days/evenings ago we had the opportunity to be on the 15th Floor of the Prestige Condos in Thana City with a full view of the Airport.

Runways ,etc were marked , but during the heavy downpour , suddenly the lights went out at the airport , around 21.15.

We could see a lot of lightnings directly over S.Airport .

[sabaijai]

Picture this. A full certified airfield located in the US is staffed by only one air traffic controller. That controller has only had two hours sleep. He allows a commuter plane to taxi onto the wrong runway, which is much too short. It crashes, killing all 50 people aboard.

Sounds like science fiction right? It happened last week. You doomsayers have been flying in and out of Don Muang for more than 50 years, and it has NEVER been certified by any agency. Are all airlines who use Don Muang uninsured? Doubtful.

The fiction being passed around that these airports have to pass certain tests by a governing agency before flights are allowed, is just that - fiction. The international advisory board issued there comments and recommendations a few months ago, and the airport operators say they are correcting the problems. These are the same airport operators that you trust with your lives every time you fly in and out of Don Muang. It seems like hipocrasy to condemn them for one but not the other.

Good point ...

[jbowman1993]

Picture this. A full certified airfield located in the US is staffed by only one air traffic controller. That controller has only had two hours sleep. He allows a commuter plane to taxi onto the wrong runway, which is much too short. It crashes, killing all 50 people aboard.

Sounds like science fiction right? It happened last week. You doomsayers have been flying in and out of Don Muang for more than 50 years, and it has NEVER been certified by any agency. Are all airlines who use Don Muang uninsured? Doubtful.

The fiction being passed around that these airports have to pass certain tests by a governing agency before flights are allowed, is just that - fiction. The international advisory board issued there comments and recommendations a few months ago, and the airport operators say they are correcting the problems. These are the same airport operators that you trust with your lives every time you fly in and out of Don Muang. It seems like hipocrasy to condemn them for one but not the other.

Actually the pilots took the wrong taxiway as there had been work done to the taxiways and they had been changed as in routing to get to the longer runway about 2 weeks earlier that the crew did not know about. As well the runway and taxi lights were not working which did not help and that was discussed by the crew as they got ready for takeoff. Sound slike the FAA by the way was saying it appears to the flight crews fault on a CNN report I saw but I thik its a little early to be pointing fingers for blame.

So there was only 1 guy working the traffic control room, the airport tarmac was poorly labeled, and the lights weren't working? Wow, and we think we have problems in Thailand.

[Thaiquila]

The consequences of "downsizing" ...

[nostrel]

if you speak to engineers who have worked there they say next march is most likely and definately not sept23

[jbowman1993]

If people listened to engineers, everything would cost twice as much and take twice as long to build. Chances are the engineers will find a way to do what the Premier wants.

[Plus]

Lots of airlines declared two days ago that they ready to move in. Air Asia and Nok Air will move even earlier.

[A_Traveller]

Well ready or not, looks like the powers that be are pressing on.....

Air controllers ready at new airport

(TNA) - All systems of Aeronautical Radio of Thailand (Aerothai) are now fully in place to support commercial operations of Bangkok's new Suvarnabhumi Airport.

Aerothai demonstrated its full capacity and potential Friday morning when two international flights of Thai Airways International (THAI), the national flag carrier, simultanenously took off from Suvarnabhumi Airport's two runways in a test run prior to the new airport's officially opening for commercial services on September 28.

Two flights, TG8814 and TG8816 flights, bound for Hong Kong and Singapore, successfully took off from Suvarnabhmi Airport's eastern and western runways.

The 3,700-metre eastern runway and 4,000-metre western runways are 2.2 kilometres far apart.

Thirty five air traffic controllers and officials,, the agency's full personnel capacity for its standard operational services, are on duty to serve the simultanenous test run of the national airline.

"It's an unprecedented record, historically, as Aerothai had never served any simultanenous flight take-off," Bhuddawan Noirod, a public relations officer, told TNA.

Two additional THAI flights, TG8815 and TG8817 from Hong Kong and Singapore, were to land on the new airport's western and eastern runways simultanenously Friday afternoon.

Link [14:30 01/09/06]

http://www.bangkokpost.co.th/breaking_news...s.php?id=112607

[solent01]

Just seen on Channel 3 news, 28th this month still the date.

[Maestro]

Two additional THAI flights, TG8815 and TG8817 from Hong Kong and Singapore, were to land on the new airport's western and eastern runways simultanenously Friday afternoon.

I wonder at what point in time the passengers were informed that they would be landing at Suvarnabhumi airport, not Don Muang:

When booking the flight?

When checking in?

During the flight?

Was anybody reading this on one of these two flights?

--------------

Maestro

[Rinrada]

Looks like my bet of a case of Beer Chang is in the Bag...

[womble]

Trial flights at Suvarnabhumi Airport successful

(TNA) -Two first international flights smoothly flew out of Suvarnabhumi Airport Friday in a trial which officials described as successful.

One flight left for Hong Kong and the other for Singapore.

Thai Airways International (THAI) and Airports of Thailand Plc (AOT) conducted test runs on all aspects of international flight operations, starting from passenger check-in and boarding pass issuance to the conveyor system.

Passenger check-in took only 20 seconds per person while the immigration and customs procedures went without any problem, Transport Minister Pongsak Raktapongpaisal said, showing confidence that the new airport would be ready to serve international flights.

Full-scale operations are scheduled for Sept 28.

The only changes following the test, according to the minister, will be minor adjustment to security in the passenger terminal and aircraft handling in order to improve service.

From today to Sept 28, various airlines will conduct similar trial flights. As an added benefit, airport tax for THAI clients will be dropped from now until the official opening.

Chotisak Asapaviriya, AOT President, said the Australia-based Jet Star airlines will operate three daily flights from Suvarnabhumi to Singapore on Sept. 15.

Flying Officer Abhinan Sumanaseni, THAI President, said questionnaires were distributed to all passengers aboard the trial flights and data obtained would be used to assess services for improvement before the commencement of domestic flights from Suvarnabhumi on Sept. 15. THAI intends to operate five flights daily from the new airport from that day.

Somchai Sawasdeepon, General Manager of Suvarnabhumi Airport, said AOT will start phase-two construction of runways after the official opening.

Two runways are operational while the third and fourth will be added in next project, said Somchai, adding that the new international airport should increase THAI’s annual income by 6-7 percent.

Louis Moser, Joint Airport Manager QF/BA (Qantas and British Airways), said he believes the new airport will see a leap in growth in Thailand’s aviation, tourism and related businesses.

Has anyone else ever checked in in 20 seconds, I know I havn't!

[slimdog]

Two additional THAI flights, TG8815 and TG8817 from Hong Kong and Singapore, were to land on the new airport's western and eastern runways simultanenously Friday afternoon.

I wonder at what point in time the passengers were informed that they would be landing at Suvarnabhumi airport, not Don Muang:

When booking the flight?

When checking in?

During the flight?

Was anybody reading this on one of these two flights?

--------------

Maestro

My understanding is that these were not commercial flights, and were limited to employee's of Thai Airways only..

[britmaveric]

You notice the only ones moving to the new airport are Thai owned. No International carriers as of this date have any plans.

Edited September 1, 2006 by britmaveric

[Mossfinn]

I have flights booked in October, I questioned the agents about which airport we would be landing at, she replied that they had received a letter that morning that Suva will be operating flights from the 28th.

After reading the above and all the speculation previously, I am getting a little jittery.

Oh well, it'll be alright on the night .........or not, whichever the case might be

Good Luck

Moss

[womble]

I reckon the opening on sept 28 will go ahead with international fight from Thai air, other Thai airlines and a handful of the smaller broke internationals. The government will offer them a cheap deal to be there on time, an offer they can't refuse, thus having multiple international airlines flying on opening day and face saving all round.

The bigger ones and the ones which care more about safety will wait until it looks safe and runs smoothly.

[skippybangkok]

Used to working in Engineering office for a few years. We hada saying

747-300 Two Pilots, One Flight Engineer

few years later

747-400 Two Pilots

few years later

747-500 One Pilot & One German Shepard

( scroll down )

The dog is there to bite the Pilot if he touches anything ( Engineers seem to think that pilots are a main cause of crashes, ( not totally true !!...good joke though ) )

In my brief Aero career, ( in Australia ), I can remember two crash landings ( "Examiners of Airmen" believe it or not ) where our pilots forgot to put out the landing gear. ( yes, you heard that right ! Forgot - it was a 15 seater twin prop , luckly no passengers )

Another sad case where 2 pilots crashed into a glider, taking off on instruments in a country side small airport with lots of gliders and hobby aircraft wizzing around on visual.

( or the other case of DC10 pilots bouncing down the run way in a flight simulator cause they fogot to wind up the 2 remaining engines after a flame out on one )... ( Guess what memory flicks before my eyes every time I leave and airport in a DC10 !! )

Long and ths short is, the airport can be improved, but there are plenty of variables which fly jocks have in thier hands.

Edited September 1, 2006 by skippybangkok

[Moonfruit]

The whole thing is a farce. What more can be said?!!?

I think even if they built a new airport in Mozambique, it would be less prone to cronyism (sp?) that Suva.

Its very unfortunate that what should be a symbol of development and national pride should have been reduced to being a politcal pawn and source of international amusement/puzzlement.

[Plus]

I think Quantas, Cathay, and Singapore Airlines were mentioned as the ones ready to move, along with "all other major airlines". They had a meeting and a press conference or something.

I personally would like to see what happens with the luggage there. It took 1 hour for the luggage to arrive during test flights last month.

They can surely open the airport if it's not ready and hope nothing major will happen. Hong Kong and KL managed to survive their less than stellar openings, why not Thailand? What they've got to lose? Their face? Nothing much left of it already.