Sheep farm dog

[alvinlight]

Current i have a sheep farm over few hundred heads of sheep.

after i watch the youtube about the sheep dog in Australia.

i would like to have one, does anyone have experience about the sheep dog ?

in term of training and where can i get sheep dog like border collie ...etc?

many thanks !

[steven100]

Border Collie for Sheep Blue Heeler for Cattle. The border collie is one of the best / most intelligent dogs you will find and are excellent with kids also, not aggressive in any way.

To find out more you may want to visit a farm that has similar uses either sheep or cows. I have seen border x collie similar to the breed here but possibly only once or twice.

Google dog clubs or dog breeders here and find out info from them. See if there are any animal shelters near your local area and enquire what breeds are there.

Teaching is not so difficult especially with sheep, the dogs instinct is to chase the sheep so thats where it all starts. You need to train the dog from an early age, as a pup .... usually it's best if the pup goes out with an experienced dog and then they learn much quicker.

The thing is he needs to be taught signals and your voice commands .... such as ' go back ' and ' way out ' ... and the usual things like stay, sit , get up and heel .....

See if you can locate another farm to visit and see for yourself ....

good luck.

[Gsxrnz]

Here's a link to quite possibly the only alleged "sheep dog" in Thailand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB4F4O1lmcg&html5=1

You'll note that the sheep (if that's what they can be called) are not taking any notice of the dog and are as placid as a pet. I was under the impression that most sheep/goats in Thailand were essentially hand reared and as such were easily handled in the paddock. But I'm prepared to be convinced otherwise.

Although I've never trained a dog, I've known many Kiwi Cockies that have. Pups have pedigrees based on the performance in the paddock of their parents and prizes or competitions that have been won. The trainability and effectiveness of the dog is deemed to be in the genes, much like a racehorse pedigree.

In NZ and Australia we also have specialised types of sheep dog based on the work they have to do and the land type they're working on, such as Heading Dogs, Huntaways or a General Purpose Dogs. Breeds vary and we even have a national Stud Book to keep track of the breeding pool.

I was told a story of one English immigrant to New Zealand that bought a small holding and had 50 odd sheep. He had absolutely no idea about farming at all but was basically living his dream. He used his two kids for years to go out in the paddock and chase the sheep (in a coordinated manner) into the direction he wanted them to go for changing paddocks or for crutching/shearing/drenching etc.

And then he noticed that his daughter's new pup was taking an interest and would run around the paddock with the kids. The pup actually learned what was wanted through copying the kids. Over the course of a season he managed to make the dog into a useful tool. It was probably never going to win any prizes or handle a mob of thousands, but it served it's purpose for him.

The dog was a total mutt of no particular breed.

Maybe you can use your kids (or some village kids)in much the same way to train a dog. I can just see a bunch of Thai kids learning what "Get in behind" or "Wayleggo" means, and actually responding to it.

Oh....and there are only two names for a real working dog. Bruce and Jess.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Gsxrnz

[pigeonjake]

i think the only way your going to get a good un is to import one from ther uk,,

keep away from them bruce and jess dogs,,,lol

go for a shep,, good old name, even elvis sang a song about his dog called SHEP

[pigeonjake]

and when i say inport one,

i meen one ready trained, many people in the uk train and sell on good dogs

[cooked]

Without experience, buying a top notch, expensive dog from the UK or elsewhere will be a waste of time. The puppies need to grow up with other dogs that know their job, and need someone that can control them. I often ask myself why the Thais don't take their dogs with them when they go and guard their crops / fish pools / or whatever at night. Why they don't have any hunting dogs, dogs that will take the cows out to pasture and bring them back... I take 8 dogs out to walk twice a day and they know exactly where the boundaries are, come back when called and drive other dogs out when they come into our property, no blood shed. I know that my neighbours think that I am crazy.

Just saying, a dog can feel happy but needs to be reassured constantly that you are the boss. You can't just buy a dog and expect it to do a certain job. We have a poodle that is constantly trying to round up all the other dogs / accompanying humans when we go walkies. Long way from there to a dog that will round up sheep and bring them back to order.

[farmerjo]

Get a 4 wheel motorbike and call it Rex,will save you alot of time repairing fences.

[pigeonjake]

what i cant understand is that the OP has a sheep farm and has never seen a sheep dog in action,,untill he saw youtube,?

cooked,,

im with you about if he dosnt have experience about dog owning/training i think it would all be a waist of time,

ive got a pup jack russell here, she is about 4 months old now, still chases the odd cockeral but she is getting there, is a great little guard dog will bark at anything strange,

as for hunting dogs here in thailand, to be honest i dont think there is anything left to hunt,!, ive seen one wild rabbit all the time ive been here,

i hunted all my life in the uk, bred jack russells and lurchers, but here nothing, not even a bit of ratting,

but i still love having mky dogs round me, when im down at the pigs they all have there place to lay down and watch me,

the little pup still follows me around a lot at the moment,

but like i said to the wife they just want to be with you and please you,

its hard getting some thais into thinking that dogs are part of the family, but ive done it with my wife, im not saying she loves the dogs as i do but she is getting there,

have you seen the looks you get in tesco when buying food for the dogs,,lol,,,

have a good sonkran,,

jake

[xen]

I grew up on a sheep farm in Oz and saw many dogs come and go over the years and the best sheep dog by far was the Kelpie . We had pedigree Border Collies and they were good dogs but would tire up with the heat and with their coats where the kelpie would just go all day . They are intelligent (easy to train and intuitive), good natured and loyal and will double as both a working dog and as your best mate.

[alvinlight]

thanks all

anyone have sheep dog for sale?

[cooked]

I hope nobody sells you one, sorry about that. You haven't been reading the responses.

[Muzarella]

Here's a link to quite possibly the only alleged "sheep dog" in Thailand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB4F4O1lmcg&html5=1

You'll note that the sheep (if that's what they can be called) are not taking any notice of the dog and are as placid as a pet. I was under the impression that most sheep/goats in Thailand were essentially hand reared and as such were easily handled in the paddock. But I'm prepared to be convinced otherwise.

Although I've never trained a dog, I've known many Kiwi Cockies that have. Pups have pedigrees based on the performance in the paddock of their parents and prizes or competitions that have been won. The trainability and effectiveness of the dog is deemed to be in the genes, much like a racehorse pedigree.

In NZ and Australia we also have specialised types of sheep dog based on the work they have to do and the land type they're working on, such as Heading Dogs, Huntaways or a General Purpose Dogs. Breeds vary and we even have a national Stud Book to keep track of the breeding pool.

I was told a story of one English immigrant to New Zealand that bought a small holding and had 50 odd sheep. He had absolutely no idea about farming at all but was basically living his dream. He used his two kids for years to go out in the paddock and chase the sheep (in a coordinated manner) into the direction he wanted them to go for changing paddocks or for crutching/shearing/drenching etc.

And then he noticed that his daughter's new pup was taking an interest and would run around the paddock with the kids. The pup actually learned what was wanted through copying the kids. Over the course of a season he managed to make the dog into a useful tool. It was probably never going to win any prizes or handle a mob of thousands, but it served it's purpose for him.

The dog was a total mutt of no particular breed.

Maybe you can use your kids (or some village kids)in much the same way to train a dog. I can just see a bunch of Thai kids learning what "Get in behind" or "Wayleggo" means, and actually responding to it.

Oh....and there are only two names for a real working dog. Bruce and Jess.

That was a funny movie..and the dog pictured ...is an example of how many Thai soi dogs looks. Will be just luck to find one that had the instinct that a pure breed Aussi shepperd have, but most Thai soi dogs are mix of Australian breeds and can be trained.

I think that my Thai soi dog will do it easily... .

Edited April 19, 2015 by Muzarella

[xen]

Here's a link to quite possibly the only alleged "sheep dog" in Thailand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB4F4O1lmcg&html5=1

You'll note that the sheep (if that's what they can be called) are not taking any notice of the dog and are as placid as a pet. I was under the impression that most sheep/goats in Thailand were essentially hand reared and as such were easily handled in the paddock. But I'm prepared to be convinced otherwise.

Although I've never trained a dog, I've known many Kiwi Cockies that have. Pups have pedigrees based on the performance in the paddock of their parents and prizes or competitions that have been won. The trainability and effectiveness of the dog is deemed to be in the genes, much like a racehorse pedigree.

In NZ and Australia we also have specialised types of sheep dog based on the work they have to do and the land type they're working on, such as Heading Dogs, Huntaways or a General Purpose Dogs. Breeds vary and we even have a national Stud Book to keep track of the breeding pool.

I was told a story of one English immigrant to New Zealand that bought a small holding and had 50 odd sheep. He had absolutely no idea about farming at all but was basically living his dream. He used his two kids for years to go out in the paddock and chase the sheep (in a coordinated manner) into the direction he wanted them to go for changing paddocks or for crutching/shearing/drenching etc.

And then he noticed that his daughter's new pup was taking an interest and would run around the paddock with the kids. The pup actually learned what was wanted through copying the kids. Over the course of a season he managed to make the dog into a useful tool. It was probably never going to win any prizes or handle a mob of thousands, but it served it's purpose for him.

The dog was a total mutt of no particular breed.

Maybe you can use your kids (or some village kids)in much the same way to train a dog. I can just see a bunch of Thai kids learning what "Get in behind" or "Wayleggo" means, and actually responding to it.

Oh....and there are only two names for a real working dog. Bruce and Jess.

That was a funny movie..and the dog pictured ...is an example of how many Thai soi dogs looks. Will be just luck to find one that had the instinct that a pure breed Aussi shepperd have, but most Thai soi dogs are mix of Australian breeds and can be trained.

I think that my Thai soi dog will do it easily... .

Popsi.jpg

I have been looking at both the Australian dingo and the Thai ridge-back and i would not be surprised that they have derived from the same source or breed many thousands of years ago when there was a land bridge between Asia and Australia. I am not too sure what you mean by an Aussie shepherd but the photo shown does look like a kelpie with a winter coat .

[TravelerEastWest]

Try a German Shepard with a single coat of hair (not the thick double coat)

They instinctively will round up sheep.

You just need to train your voice and hand signals.

[NeverSure]

OP, I grew up on a wheat and cattle ranch in the US. We had what we called border collies, and Australian shepherds. Both were excellent.

I was told that it's an instinct for them to gather up sheep or cattle. Some think it's an ancient hunting style left over from long ago. In any event they are in the "herding" dog group.

If you order a trained dog it will be expensive. I think you could learn to train one on YouTube and google. Mostly you want them to bring you the herd on command, and to back off on command. When you have one trained, the rest will learn more easily, but the first won't be hard.

The dog will instinctively see you as its "pack leader" aka the "alpha male" and bring you the sheep it has taken ownership of. Yes, the pack thinks it owns the sheep and this is good because it will also stand guard over "its" sheep.

A pet will never make the best herding dog as it won't be quite as much in awe of you as its alpha male. We wanted dogs that stayed with the sheep rather than sleep inside. Up to you. (We had other dogs which were just pets.)

These dogs can be found in the US, Canada, Australia, NZ etc. etc. and it isn't hard to find a breeder. If you get a male and a female from different sources you can breed them and increase your holdings and make money selling them trained or untrained.

Here are pictures just to be clear that we use the same names. The first is the black and white border collie and the second is the more mottled Aussie.

[NeverSure]

OP, it didn't occur to me to wonder about climate. These dogs can withstand really cold weather so I wonder how they do in tropical temps? Australians should know what they use where it's hot.

I do know they grow a winter under coat of downy "fur" and then shed it in the spring. They might not even grow it if they got acclimated to the tropics. It's worth asking about, though.

[cooked]

Me again. You can't just buy an untrained dog and train it to herd sheep. You need experience, and preferably a grown dog to show the younger one how to act. The dog will run rings around you instead of the sheep.

By the way we have a poodle that I recently realised was constantly trying to keep our family and 8 dogs together in one group, he goes frantic when we separate, running back and forth. He does obey my commands but I really have seen how much work it would need to train him for sheep herding. He will go and bring back birds that the son in law has shot but he won't give them to anyone but me.

[pigeonjake]

poodles were a gun dog, bred for flushing,,

neversure,,

you didnt mention the uk,, wales, and scotland must have some of the best sheep dogs in the world, up in the hills working them hill sheep, who from one sheering and lambing never see anyone very wild, but them dogs can handle them, a good collie to the farmer is worth his wieght in gold,

i wouldnt think to be honest a german shepard would be any good,, very good for guarding them, but for running them, you must have a collie or as some of the ozzies have said ozzie dogs,,

just one thing neversure,,, we call the mottles,,, BLUES MERLS,,lol

ive seen jack russells rounding up ducks at agi shows in the uk,

but it takes a good dog with balls to face sheep that dont want to move and they will have to give the leaders the odd nip

[Surin13]

OP, it didn't occur to me to wonder about climate. These dogs can withstand really cold weather so I wonder how they do in tropical temps? Australians should know what they use where it's hot.

Kelpies are the best breed of Australian working dogs for the hot climates and would be fine in Thailand.

Heelers are good in hot weathe too, but are a cattle dog.

I always found Australian shepherds an odd name for a dog breed seeing they aren't an Australian breed and aren't common in Australia that I know off.

[bina]

Just thought I'd share my thoughts. ..sheep herded dogs have distinctive DNA traits including OCD which in pets can cause problems such as a aussie shepherds having to herd chairs around a table or other herding activities even when not used as working dogs

as for thai hunting dogs _dime a dozen in issan villages...used to scent out sight down and grab any prey not specialized as European or American hunting types. ..FIL has an entire pack ...live in yard fed ivermec'd and mostly vaccinated although last year one attacked family friend while i and hubby visited (wasn't allowed to walk in yard atnight until said dogs disappeared as one did display neurological problems)acted weird so person received rabies vaccine series at local clinic and two dogs were dispatched to doggy heaven...

the dingo and thai Ridgeback and other primitive dogs might share DNA

sheep guard dogs are more likely what the OP NEEDS and a thai village dog or two raised as pups with the sheep will 100%do the job...speaking from experience here

[pigeonjake]

bina,

you can get hunting dogs in the uk that will take both fur and feather ive had many such dogs,

i think the OP was asking agout a sheep dog, not to take care,guard them at night, but to work the sheep as they do in the uk and many other countries,

i meen work the sheep as in bringing them to you, splitting them to seperate 1 sheep, all things that some thai god wouldnt be able to do,

what you will find if you have a collie as a pet, and they do make great pets is you have to walk them lots excersize, thats why they start chewing things in the house and garden bordom, they are bred to work all day and have the heart to do so, and you have to work that extra energy they have off,

collies will put brain into many dogs, and im speaking from years of experience of beading and working lurchers here, if you get a strait greyhound, yes it will catch you rabbits, but will also run into barbed wire, it has just one thought catch that rabbit, sight hound,,

but if you cross that greyhound with a collie you have a first cross lurcher with the brain from the collie and the speed from the greyhound,

not if you were to put this dog back to a greyhound or whippet, then you have 3 lots of speed and one lot of brain, a great dog, you cross with the whippit to keep the size down as a to tall dog cant bend very good,

i did all this once with a spanial, and what a great dog i ended up with, great on the lamp at night, but a bit head strong in the daytime as she wanted to work out the rough, but at night on the lamp was a great dog and retrieved to hand alive everything, great soft mouth,

this is one of the things i miss here in thailand,

but i do have a jack russell bitch here and love to watch her work my hay stack in the barn looking for mice,,lol,

sorry for going on but dogs were and still are a pasion of mine,

[BSJ]

OP, I grew up on a wheat and cattle ranch in the US. We had what we called border collies, and Australian shepherds. Both were excellent.

I was told that it's an instinct for them to gather up sheep or cattle. Some think it's an ancient hunting style left over from long ago. In any event they are in the "herding" dog group.

If you order a trained dog it will be expensive. I think you could learn to train one on YouTube and google. Mostly you want them to bring you the herd on command, and to back off on command. When you have one trained, the rest will learn more easily, but the first won't be hard.

The dog will instinctively see you as its "pack leader" aka the "alpha male" and bring you the sheep it has taken ownership of. Yes, the pack thinks it owns the sheep and this is good because it will also stand guard over "its" sheep.

A pet will never make the best herding dog as it won't be quite as much in awe of you as its alpha male. We wanted dogs that stayed with the sheep rather than sleep inside. Up to you. (We had other dogs which were just pets.)

These dogs can be found in the US, Canada, Australia, NZ etc. etc. and it isn't hard to find a breeder. If you get a male and a female from different sources you can breed them and increase your holdings and make money selling them trained or untrained.

Here are pictures just to be clear that we use the same names. The first is the black and white border collie and the second is the more mottled Aussie.

In all my life in Australia I have never seen a dog like that hairy beasty in the second pix. Of course I haven't been there for 4 and a half years so maybe in that time someone has introduced a new breed.

[NeverSure]

I think I just learned that, LOL. All my life this dog is called an Australian shepherd but I never checked to see where they are from. However if I check google images for Australian Shepherd I get this.

Link

And if I just google Australian Shepherd I get this.

Link.

So I'm not the only one, LOL. It's apparently a US breed. But it's a good one.

Cheers

Edited May 14, 2015 by NeverSure

[NeverSure]

A dog of the herding breed has an instinct to herd and will try to herd the deck chairs on your porch. We were raising wheat and cattle and the few sheep we had were for personal use, just like chickens and a milk cow. This was true of our neighbors.

From my experience today a person could learn to train a dog to herd from YouTube videos. That's also a resource for knowing how to quickly assess a young dog's temperament and intelligence before you buy it.

A trained dog should be a lot more expensive than a pup. We used to make money selling young trained dogs when we were young. I'd like to have a Kubota tractor that would give me six or seven pups I could raise into full sized tractors, LOL.

There are tons of videos on YouTube about how to train a sheepdog and most people can train one to do what it wants to do already. It has to learn commands only so it will know what you want.

Dogs are pack animals and automatically choose a leader that's called the alpha male. With a tiny bit of knowledge you can quickly become that alpha male - the pack leader. I think it's fun to work with dogs (or horses) and it sure makes the time fly for the day.

Cheers

[NeverSure]

To add: We already had cattle dogs trained to herd cattle. They didn't want to herd sheep, apparently because they owned the cattle. We had to also have a sheepdog or two to run the sheep to ground when they were out in a big field. Those dogs believed they owned the sheep.

[pigeonjake]

neversure,

your right about having fun with dogs and horses, i miss it so much,

i still have a bit of footage from my mums place she still has a couple of horses and still rides out at 75,,lol,

she used to have a riding school and also bred arabs,

but ive got 3 great dogs here, 1 jack russell and 2 thai dogs, but they all do as they are told, the jack still chases the odd cockeral but when i say go home, she does go back to the house knowing im not happy with her, but shes calming down, i just dont want to stop the chasing all together as she will stop chasing everything, she will learn not the chickens,

the other 2 are great for guarding the place and all 3 are great with little janet who just about rides them, she hangs onto them and they dont care one bit they love her,

[Derekalysto]

I actually introduced my border collies to sheep a couple of years ago in Chiang Mai. They immediately had a strong sense of what to do, and it was great to witness. But there was clearly a lot of work to be done as well. I had two main problems. The first, of course, was that I've never trained a border collie to herd sheep, and no amount of book-reading, video-watching and forum-surfing can make up for that.

The second was that the sheep didn't belong to me, and I would have needed to build new facilities in order to facilitate training. The owner of the flock was already being generous by letting me weary his sheep with my dogs, and I wasn't brazen enough to ask permission to build new smaller paddocks within his larger ones.

I used to have a small flock of my own, and I may invest in another to crop the grass on my coffee plantation in the future. So if anyone in Thailand has experience training collies on sheep, I'd be interested in speaking with them.

[djayz]

I stumbled over this post a few days ago. It might be of interest to the OP re purchasing a dog. I don't know the seller nor have I ever had dealings with him/her so I'm not vouching for anything.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/904709-border-collie-puppies/#entry10559070