time to stop self describing as a flaung.... spelled the way they pronounce it

[richard_smith237]

I have to wonder where people get this angry nonsense from. Everybody I know here uses the word, and I've never heard anyone object to it outside of this forum.

It really isn't a big deal... I hear some of my Western friends use Farang when referring to other 'White, Western Foreigners'...

And lets face it, White, Western Foreigner is a bit of a mouthful...

So perhaps we should chill out and not make an issue of this.... Of course, none of us really do make an issue of this, but as its come up for discussion and as we have a little time on our hands it makes for an interesting topic....

Do I care if my Western friends call me Farang? Not really. I do think it sounds a little silly though. In Indonesia would those same Western friends refer to me as Farang, or would they use Bule?.... In Japan, Gaijin ?... there is a line in the sand somewhere of whats acceptable to us and what isn't....

I don't find the use of Farang offensive or unacceptable, I only have an opinion on the word if I am drawn to think about its use.

Would I refer to other Westerners as Farangs? No, instead I use the term Westerner as thats simply my preference, I find the word Westerner universal enough not to require a local word....

Edited April 23, 2015 by richard_smith237

[Happy Grumpy]

3 syllables verses 2.

farang wins in casual chat.

[SoiBiker]

I think a more interesting debate is - do you pronounce the 'R'?

[Jingthing]

No. It's a local Oriental racial classification system and it does NOT represent any kind of truth. The local Oriental world view is so incredibly limited ... foreigners should know better than to buy into such ignorance.

Calm down, Dorothy.

Why are calling me Dorothy?

It's pasa farang for Old farang complainer.

It rolls off the tongue easier.

Pasa farang?

You mean English?

Anyway, no it doesn't mean that unless you fancy that you speak your own language.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Jingthing

[richard_smith237]

3 syllables verses 2.

farang wins in casual chat.

I think a more interesting debate is - do you pronounce the 'R'?

Perhaps in casual chat its easier to pronounce with an 'L' and be more understood by those hanging out in beer-bars...

Edited April 23, 2015 by richard_smith237

[ChrisB87]

It's pasa farang for Old farang complainer.

It rolls off the tongue easier.

Pasa farang?

You mean English?

Anyway, no it doesn't mean that unless you fancy that you speak your own language.

This type of word borrowing is quite common actually. Linguists call it borrowing.

Yes, officially word borrowing usually happens when no other word exists, e.g sushi, pizza, computer (for Thai), free (for Thai).

Yes, i know, we already have our own word for it, "westerner", but people mix and match words quite frequently for ease.

Often, it happens even when another word does exist. Thais will say TV, cos its easier than that other long word they have. Thais will say 'OK' even when talking to each other. Thais will say 'Hello' when answering the phone in an informal way. Thais sometimes will say 'shave' in a hair salon, despite having their own word for it. These four examples, I have heard in Isaan between Thais talking to each other, not Pattaya, or the like. And i don't think it was for my benefit, unless they were being culturally sensitive LOL (I am joking now).

Another phrase is 'shut up'. I was surprised (and embarrassed) to learn that all of my prathom 4 students understand that perfectly.

Edited April 23, 2015 by ChrisB87

[slipperylobster]

awwww....you sound hurt.

Blame the french. (frogs/falang)

anyways ...you might be oversensitive. I have not met a Thai yet who does not say falang.

[Maestro]

In what regional Thai dialect is a Westerner (Caucasian) called a flaung?

[slipperylobster]

So, Steve from Miami, is it OK to call you a seppo?

(C'mon, have a laugh - sounds like you need it - )

Calling sombody a name that implies a tank to hold poo poo...?

Now that is insanely crude........ and that is where the trouble begins...

It will only bring retaliation of terms like Fahtsukers for your countrymen.*having fun?"

Edited April 23, 2015 by slipperylobster

[Berkshire]

Again, read the OP.

That's interesting.

That's different.

It's about SELF describing!

It's not about what the Orientals might say.

All the Orientals in Thailand might call me a flaung but in my head, I am no such item.

That's THEIR trip.

Those Orientals.

You are NOT required to INTERNALIZE the weird RACIAL classifications of the local Orientals.

Sorted?

No I am not bothered if the Orientals call me a flaung.

But if other NON-Orientals do, I think they're pretty moronic.

Why do you do it?

Were you brainwashed at BKK by the Orientals?

JT, you appear to be losing what's left of your mind. The Thais couldn't care less if you called them "oriental." The Asians in America may be offended, but why are you insulting those folks? They have nothing to do with this.

[Loptr]

OK, I am not telling anyone what to use.

I do think it is really moronic to use that term for ourselves though and I'm entitled to that opinion as well.

I think it's pretty stupid to assign racist motives to a neutral descriptor. I guess we can leave it to others to decide which opinion they think is more valid.

I asked my Thai language teacher about the origins of the word farang and whether it was a derogatory term... This teacher is Thai, she holds Masters degrees in three languages and is about 75 years old, so I give credence to her opinion... She said that the word was derived from the word Francais, which was how the Thais identified the French in the country decades ago, but it was too difficult for Thais to pronounce, so it morphed into the word farang... She also stated that it was in no way derogatory...

[Naam]

In what regional Thai dialect is a Westerner (Caucasian) called a flaung?

i think it's a typo originally meant to read falung.

[SoiBiker]

OK, I am not telling anyone what to use.

I do think it is really moronic to use that term for ourselves though and I'm entitled to that opinion as well.

I think it's pretty stupid to assign racist motives to a neutral descriptor. I guess we can leave it to others to decide which opinion they think is more valid.

I asked my Thai language teacher about the origins of the word farang and whether it was a derogatory term... This teacher is Thai, she holds Masters degrees in three languages and is about 75 years old, so I give credence to her opinion... She said that the word was derived from the word Francais, which was how the Thais identified the French in the country decades ago, but it was too difficult for Thais to pronounce, so it morphed into the word farang... She also stated that it was in no way derogatory...

Indeed. It's obvious from the Thai word for French - 'Farangset'.

Don't expect a logical explanation to have any impact on the weird, hysterical people who've made up their own meaning for the word, though.

[ScarpoFongness4U]

There seems to be a reading comprehension situation gone awry here,

And who cares what some 75 year old has to say about it,

I wrote the OP after a 70 year old American friend from

New York used it to self describe, and he sounded retarded.

I too, asked my soapy princess if it was derogatory and she said no, unless the falang was acting a fool or was otherwise drawing attention to himself,

But it was the face she made when she said it to describe the fools

That was clearly derogatory.....

This question is only directed to the people who disagree or ambivalent about it,

"If you had a female child, of mixed Thai and w/e you are, and the kid had light skin blonde or reddish hair and blue eyes, would you want her teachers in school to single her out as the falang, so she felt like an outcast, and was abused forth with by her classmates, because the <deleted> of a teacher called her a falang, or would you want her called by her name, the one that you gave her?

And if she was so devalued by that name, making her different from all the rest, what further abuses might that possibly lead too?

I grew up with busing, in the new york 60's and I know that kids will not repeat their parents prejudice,

So why would you encourage it, because some old teacher gave you her definition, when we all know it is used as a form of separation and devaluation?

[SoiBiker]

But they don't call half-Thai kids farang. They call them luk khrueng.

[MaeJoMTB]

But they don't call half-Thai kids farang. They call them luk khrueng.

Adults call them luk krung or farang noi.

But the other kids call them farang, as it's more suitable for playground insulting and bullying.

[SoiBiker]

Anyway, if I had a half-Thai kid, I'd be asking my wife some pretty serious questions.

[Thaddeus]

In what regional Thai dialect is a Westerner (Caucasian) called a flaung?

The posh one where they go to the sharr to bathe and put mootard on their cress sandwiches.

[rijit]

you can just hear it ' we dont mean anything by it,' 'we've always used it ' it comes from' . Well, for all your ignorant and dim witted arguements, people find it offensive, that should be enough for EVERYONE to respect and recognise.its time to start to stop using it., but no, self rightous ignorance rules. Well meaning ,derogitary , whatever term u put on it doesnt matter, its a term/word used to group a people by the color of their skin and its, therefore, racist.

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[SoiBiker]

Half a dozen misguided grumpy old fools on ThaiVisa getting their knickers in a twist isn't really sufficient evidence to define a perfectly harmless Thai word as racist.

[NickJ]

Look, There goes that Big nosed White devil Steve from Miami........he must eat a lot of cheese.

[rijit]

just copied this from another thread

This will REALLY motivate cabbies to deal with alien customers if they are fined for something they don't understand. Thainess at its best; I wanted to flag down a car and he passed with open window "no farang"! Must have been among those fined lately I guess....

and i supose the cab driver meant it nicely,,,??

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[SoiBiker]

He could have said 'No white people'!

It wouldn't make 'white' a racist word.

[rijit]

Half a dozen misguided grumpy old fools on ThaiVisa getting their knickers in a twist isn't really sufficient evidence to define a perfectly harmless Thai word as racist.

listen 2 yourself; cos that reply to me sounds bigoted and ignorant.

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[SoiBiker]

It's almost like some of you desperately want the word to be racist. Why so keen to play the victim card?

[ScarpoFongness4U]

Its not about us, we can take care of ourselves

[rijit]

Its not about us, we can take care of ourselves

you have to understand that some can see no further than ' I '

not uncommon, imo, in an expat ish community.

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[SoiBiker]

Yes. Some are so self-centered that they even feel entitled to change the meaning of a word and demand that others stop using it because of their own misguided opinion.

It's an odd phenomenon for sure.

[Gecko123]

One of the most attractive aspects of Thai culture are its strong values of social inclusion, cohesion, and harmony. This is as opposed to the social exclusion, alienation and disharmony all too prevalent in the West. Thais are held in high esteem all over the world for their friendliness, approachability, warmth, welcomeness, playfulness, and easygoingness. Almost all visitors - from first time to long-term residents -- comment favorably on these qualities.

Those who take offense at a harmless descriptive word like 'farang,' and try and turn it into something ugly, exclusionary, xenophobic, or racist ignore this mountain of counter evidence that Thais value social inclusion and cohesion greatly. And those values don't just extend to other Thais either, as some would have you believe. I can't tell you how many times, for example, that Thais have said to me, "You're Thai already!" after they find out I've been here over 10 years and can speak the language.

Those who argue that we should be taking offense with the word 'farang', often seem to be the same ones arguing that returning a wai makes foreigners look stupid, or that efforts to understand and respect the culture are pointless. Anyone expressing appreciation or admiration for the culture is mocked as trying to be 'Thai-er than Thai' or a 'Thai apologist.' We've all heard it before. These arguments all share the same line of thinking: 'Thais need to change to accomodate me, not the other way around.' Put simply, embracing this type of thinking, which sadly is all too often encouraged on this forum, is a recipe for becoming a bitter and permanently maladjusted malcontent who ultimately misses out on much of what Thailand has to offer.

In my opinion, this is a completely contrived grievance which deserves absolutely no further consideration or discussion.

[rijit]

nothing changes ignorance is still ignorance biggoty is still biggotry

and racism is still racism. some prefer to ignore some dont.

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