time to stop self describing as a flaung.... spelled the way they pronounce it

[Fab5BKK]

When a Thai uses it with me, I just ask him 1 question: Would you be happy if I call you "Asian"?

And then, I say: if you feel offended / insulted I'm as well.

Respect is a 2-way thing.

Hel-lo???!

Never heard of a Thai being offended by being called 'Asian.'

Talk about Thailand being part of ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) is in the news everyday. Don't hear anyone getting upset about that either.

Hello???

just try:"hey you the asian what do you want?" and you'll see the results

Just wonder posters live in Thailand

Hello???

[SoiBiker]

Personally, I have never ever met foreigners who referred to themselves as the f...word in a conversation.

...

Interesting.

I hear that done frequently.

Well....have holidayed and lived in Phuket and in province in Cental North Thailand and honestly I never heard it in conversations with foreigners. Maybe only in the way off....ahh we only farangs here. But adressing each others as....farang...like in the sad example as I stated above....never ever. It maybe has to with those people not being influenced by fora like this one. If I would have read, or been a member, from the early 2000's of this forum I would have been gumbsmacked, still am now, by the way foreigners use the word farang so freely. Not my cup of tea.

Most people I know drop it into conversation from time to time (not as a way to directly address each other - that would be weird). None of them read this forum.

[rijit]

When a Thai uses it with me, I just ask him 1 question: Would you be happy if I call you "Asian"?

And then, I say: if you feel offended / insulted I'm as well.

Respect is a 2-way thing.

probably more comparable to ask him if he would liked to be called a yellow man.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Berkshire]

When a Thai uses it with me, I just ask him 1 question: Would you be happy if I call you "Asian"?

And then, I say: if you feel offended / insulted I'm as well.

Respect is a 2-way thing.

probably more comparable to ask him if he would liked to be called a yellow man.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No, Asian would be the correct term relative to "farang." The term farang has nothing to do with skin color. How many more times do I have to tell you that?

[rijit]

When a Thai uses it with me, I just ask him 1 question: Would you be happy if I call you "Asian"?

And then, I say: if you feel offended / insulted I'm as well.

Respect is a 2-way thing.

probably more comparable to ask him if he would liked to be called a yellow man.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No, Asian would be the correct term relative to "farang." The term farang has nothing to do with skin color. How many more times do I have to tell you that?

well berk how many more times do i have to say it does

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited April 30, 2015 by rijit

[Jingthing]

Sure, white folks with a good sun tan are also called the word.

[SoiBiker]

If 'farang' means white person - what's a 'farang dam'?

[Jingthing]

If 'farang' means white person - what's a 'farang dam'?

http://www.knowphuket.com/thai_language/L32_farang-and-other-people.htm

Farang

There is a common misconception that 'farang' is just a general term for foreigner. In fact, it specifically refers to people from a western ancestry (Americas, Europe and Australasia). Thais do sometimes umbrella black and asian people from western countries under the farang label but generally the word is specifically used for white skinned people. Black people may be called farang dum (black farang).

[SoiBiker]

Well, that seems like a rigorous academic source.

[Jingthing]

Well, that seems like a rigorous academic source.

Whatever.

To me, it's always been about being a whitey (in the Thai racial classification system).

[Berkshire]

When a Thai uses it with me, I just ask him 1 question: Would you be happy if I call you "Asian"?

And then, I say: if you feel offended / insulted I'm as well.

Respect is a 2-way thing.

probably more comparable to ask him if he would liked to be called a yellow man.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No, Asian would be the correct term relative to "farang." The term farang has nothing to do with skin color. How many more times do I have to tell you that?

well berk how many more times do i have to say it does

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So you're an expert on Thai language? (note heavy sarcasm) The term farang literally means Caucasian, or person of European descent. No where does skin color come into play, that's a farang invention. If the Thais wanted to refer to skin color, they would say "Khon Kao," which literally means white person. Has a Thai person called you that?

[Berkshire]

Sure, white folks with a good sun tan are also called the word.

Exactly. You can have a deep tan (think George Hamilton) and with the Euro feature, you will be a farang. Because that's what farang means, a Caucasian person. Nothing to do with skin color.

[Gecko123]

If 'farang' means white person - what's a 'farang dam'?

http://www.knowphuket.com/thai_language/L32_farang-and-other-people.htm

Farang

There is a common misconception that 'farang' is just a general term for foreigner. In fact, it specifically refers to people from a western ancestry (Americas, Europe and Australasia). Thais do sometimes umbrella black and asian people from western countries under the farang label but generally the word is specifically used for white skinned people. Black people may be called farang dum (black farang).

Jingthing:

I'm in complete agreement with practically everything in the article you referenced above, especially the part about those who are the most insistent that "farang" is a racist derogatory term, are the least likely to have studied the Thai language.

Regarding the use of the term "farang dam", this may be technically true, but it has been my experience that this term is hardly ever used. For example, while a dark complected person from Africa might be referred to as an African, they could easily be called a farang as well. If you are Arab, you would probably be called a "farang" until you self-identify as Arab, and then you would be an "Arab" or more specifically a person from whatever country you came from.

In my opinion, the fact that "farang" is frequently used to describe anyone of non-Asian background, is indisputable support that "farang" is not intended to be a racist term. Personally, I have NEVER heard the term "farang dam" used. "Farang"(colloquial) or "chaw tang chat" (more educated, more polite) are the only terms I ever heard used to describe Westerners regardless of their skin tone.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Gecko123

[Berkshire]

If 'farang' means white person - what's a 'farang dam'?

http://www.knowphuket.com/thai_language/L32_farang-and-other-people.htm

Farang

There is a common misconception that 'farang' is just a general term for foreigner. In fact, it specifically refers to people from a western ancestry (Americas, Europe and Australasia). Thais do sometimes umbrella black and asian people from western countries under the farang label but generally the word is specifically used for white skinned people. Black people may be called farang dum (black farang).

Jingthing:

I'm in complete agreement with practically everything in the article you referenced above, especially the part about those who are the most insistent that "farang" is a racist derogatory term, are the least likely to have studied the Thai language.

From the article:

"For me, the giveaway in this debate is that there seems to be a clear divide as to who thinks the word is insulting and who thinks it is just a descriptive moniker. It is invariably the people who cannot speak Thai who swear that the word is insulting. It is invariably the people who can speak Thai who say that it is just a general moniker for western people and any connotations depend on the context in which the word is used. You would think that if the people who can speak Thai and can understand the context in which the word is being used are saying that it is not an insulting word, then that would be a fairly conclusive end to the debate. Strangely, it just does not seem to convince those who are determined to feel insulted."

This is SPOT ON. Some relevant examples:

If I was to go to France and insists that a certain French word is insulting, even though a French-speaking person says it's not, I think I would be guilty of being ignorant.

If a Chinese guy was to go to the USA and insists that the word "Asian" is insulting even though I tell him that it's not, he would be guilty of being ignorant.

If a farang in Thailand were to insists that the word "farang" is insulting even though every Thai and Thai-speaking person says it's not.......

[Jingthing]

The topic here is actually about self description.

It isn't about the question of derogatory or not.

[NickJ]

He was a great guy, a real farangs farang....a man after the slants heart. Although a gook by natuer she knew that her being a FOB didnt matter....sure he was a. Big nosed white devil at times. But in the end this honkey cracker died with his boots on

[Sealbash]

I have been a gringo, a bule, a gweilo, and now I am a farang. Whatever.

[NickJ]

Well beats having herpes in a tornado....

[ScarpoFongness4U]

Meanwhile the OP whom i assume to be american calls japanese, chinese, thais, burmese, indians etc as all simply asian.

Yet just nameless faceless asians and in his own home country all asians that categorized as asian which doesn't mean anything to them at all because a burmese and a chinese are quite different from one another not to mention a chinese from one region of china to the next.

Yet the OP was really clueless and even annoyed when some asian guy ( japanese) announced hey i'm not just asian i'm japanese and i am different from the other asians like chinese and korean and the OP was even more annoyed because as you know chinese, japanese and koreans are all just simply asian and the smaller sub groups like thai, tibetians, mongolians well they can be simply called chinese too for simplicity's sake.

Yet the funny thing is the OP was very annoyed when he got called a flaung just a nameless faceless flaung from any western nation while in his own home country of the US while they did just group all flaungs as white people they were actually considerate enough to group them into special groups like scottish, irish, armenian etc but of course the japanese, chinese, mongolians, koreans etc were all just asian and it didn't matter.

No idea what OP you are talking about

I made no such grouping of nips, chinks, gooks as just all Asians

Besides they are all Asians, they live in Asia

[rijit]

It's not a racist term. If you want, you can decide that you think the word means something different, but don't expect the rest of us to stop using it just because you're wrong.

Simply referring to someone's race is not racist, by the way.

The royal institute directory 1999, the official dictionary of Thai words, defines the word as "a person of white race".^[1]

Edited April 30, 2015 by rijit

[rijit]

probably more comparable to ask him if he would liked to be called a yellow man.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No, Asian would be the correct term relative to "farang." The term farang has nothing to do with skin color. How many more times do I have to tell you that?

well berk how many more times do i have to say it does

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So you're an expert on Thai language? (note heavy sarcasm) The term farang literally means Caucasian, or person of European descent. No where does skin color come into play, that's a farang invention. If the Thais wanted to refer to skin color, they would say "Khon Kao," which literally means white person. Has a Thai person called you that?

wrong again berk, The royal institute directory , the official dictionary of Thai words, defines the word as "a person of white race".^[1]

Edited April 30, 2015 by rijit

[Oceanbat]

The topic here is actually about self description.

It isn't about the question of derogatory or not.

So, by self describing. Are they claiming back the word. Nigger, slut etc?

OB

[Jingthing]

The topic here is actually about self description.

It isn't about the question of derogatory or not.

So, by self describing. Are they claiming back the word. Nigger, slut etc?

OB

I hear what you're saying and it's an interesting idea, but in my view, that is most certainly not the psychology in play here in Thailand among the European descent persons self describing as flaung.

[StreetCowboy]

...

So you're an expert on Thai language? (note heavy sarcasm) The term farang literally means Caucasian, or person of European descent. No where does skin color come into play, that's a farang invention. If the Thais wanted to refer to skin color, they would say "Khon Kao," which literally means white person. Has a Thai person called you that?

wrong again berk, The royal institute directory , the official dictionary of Thai words, defines the word as "a person of white race".^%5B1%5D

I think he was nit-picking on skin colour. The term farang is not about skin colour - it's about race - Caucasian or European descent, as he himself said. Because people of that racial group range from pasty-white through pinkish, tan, to leathery brown depending on genetic factors and their exposure to the sun, wind and rain. But generally we call them all white.

SC

Edited May 1, 2015 by StreetCowboy

[SoiBiker]

The topic here is actually about self description.

It isn't about the question of derogatory or not.

So if it's not derogatory, what's the problem with people using it to describe themselves?

[Berkshire]

So you're an expert on Thai language? (note heavy sarcasm) The term farang literally means Caucasian, or person of European descent. No where does skin color come into play, that's a farang invention. If the Thais wanted to refer to skin color, they would say "Khon Kao," which literally means white person. Has a Thai person called you that?

wrong again berk, The royal institute directory , the official dictionary of Thai words, defines the word as "a person of white race".^[1]

So you went to Wikipedia and you found this:

Farang (Thai: ฝรั่ง [faràŋ]) is a generic Thai word for someone of European ancestry, no matter where they may come from. The Royal Institute Dictionary 1999, the official dictionary of Thai words, defines the word as "a person of white race".

You completely ignore the standard definition which is "someone of European ancestry" so that you can focus on the white race thing. Man, you really are obsessed.

[Berkshire]

The topic here is actually about self description.

It isn't about the question of derogatory or not.

So if it's not derogatory, what's the problem with people using it to describe themselves?

Exactly. So if a Thai, a farang, or a Na'vi from the fictional planet Pandora says it, WHO CARES??? It's just a word.

Imagine if I had lived in Mexico for years and years, gotten used to the word Gringo, come back to the states and call myself Gringo from time to time, WHO CARES???

[Naam]

The topic here is actually about self description.

It isn't about the question of derogatory or not.

So if it's not derogatory, what's the problem with people using it to describe themselves?

JT will neither greet us nor wave friendly when he passes us in one of his favourite baht-buses. this will piss off our drivers and they will silently curse us for being Flaungs who do not possess any self-respect.

[ScarpoFongness4U]

because it is used in the Thai media to devalue the life of westerners, so when a Thai truck driver runs over and kills two British people riding bicycles around the world,

He is only fined $300 baht, because it was only a falang

[Gecko123]

because it is used in the Thai media to devalue the life of westerners, so when a Thai truck driver runs over and kills two British people riding bicycles around the world,

He is only fined $300 baht, because it was only a falang

Show me an example of the word "farang" being used in the Thai press in this manner.

In most instances I can recall both newspapers and TV news use the term "kohn tang chaat" when referring to foreigners.

I happen to have been reading Thai newspapers and watching Thai news with particular attention to the crime and accident reporting for the past couple of months on a pretty regular basis and cannot recall a single instance of the term "farang" being used.