geriatrickid Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 i think its about time the underage age be lowered, if not then there should be a "child" prison Considering the poor state of prisons, do you really believe it is society's best interests to incarcerate non violent juvenile offenders in a place where they will be abused, exposed to deviancy and most likely lost to society? Can anyone find, anywhere in the world, where a killer of 9 people received a suspended sentence? (I know some of you guys are keen researchers) Vehicular manslaughter caused by a juvenile does not often result in incarceration unless the juvenile was engaged in a violent crime (e.g. fleeing from a robbery) or was premeditated. As someone above said, she is not underage now so NOW she should go to jail and pay for her crime. That is not how the law is applied. The age of the culprit at the time of the wrongful act is the defining criteria. I am not defending this horrid person. However, the judge was not incorrect in his statement, which has not been offered within the appropriate context. Yes, this girl did something wrong and yes she needs to be appropriately dealt with. Unfortunately, teenagers have undeveloped brains and a lack of emotional stability such that they behave very differently than adults. Young humans do not perceive risk in the same manner as adults. What she did was wrong, and I hope that she is required to do her community service in a rehab facility where she is obliged to see the pain and suffering that car crashes inflict. She will understand once she has to help clean up or watch people with missing limbs or brain damage try to cope with their shattered lives. This is something she would never be exposed to if she sat in a prison. She needs to see first hand the damage people like her cause, so that she can change her ways for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 To the people who say that probation is no deterrent.. are you mad? Do you think that prison is a deterrent ?? Also, this was an accident not a murder, as such no deterrent is applicable. Many lives have been lost or destroyed as a result of this... you want to now destroy the life of a young girl ????? clearly i must be mad then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesetat2013 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 People on this forum are often outraged that here in Thailand families with money can achieve better outcomes in court than the poor. This is in no way unique to Thailand, in fact the USA is a country where there is a massive difference between sentencing for middle class defendants who can afford a decent lawyer, and poor people who are stuck with the public defender. It's a reality of life that if you can afford decent legal representation then doors open that would remain closed to the poor. I don't believe the people here are as outraged as you suggest. Anyone living in Thailand knows how the system works for hi-so here and probably expected the outcome of this case. I think people are more outraged at the audacity the judge has to say that his judgment is in line with global standards to justify typical Thai justice for hi-so citizens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginjag Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 i think its about time the underage age be lowered, if not then there should be a "child" prison Considering the poor state of prisons, do you really believe it is society's best interests to incarcerate non violent juvenile offenders in a place where they will be abused, exposed to deviancy and most likely lost to society? Can anyone find, anywhere in the world, where a killer of 9 people received a suspended sentence? (I know some of you guys are keen researchers) Vehicular manslaughter caused by a juvenile does not often result in incarceration unless the juvenile was engaged in a violent crime (e.g. fleeing from a robbery) or was premeditated. As someone above said, she is not underage now so NOW she should go to jail and pay for her crime. That is not how the law is applied. The age of the culprit at the time of the wrongful act is the defining criteria. I am not defending this horrid person. However, the judge was not incorrect in his statement, which has not been offered within the appropriate context. Yes, this girl did something wrong and yes she needs to be appropriately dealt with. Unfortunately, teenagers have undeveloped brains and a lack of emotional stability such that they behave very differently than adults. Young humans do not perceive risk in the same manner as adults. What she did was wrong, and I hope that she is required to do her community service in a rehab facility where she is obliged to see the pain and suffering that car crashes inflict. She will understand once she has to help clean up or watch people with missing limbs or brain damage try to cope with their shattered lives. This is something she would never be exposed to if she sat in a prison. She needs to see first hand the damage people like her cause, so that she can change her ways for the better. Responsibility here also should be shared by the parents of this underaged Spoilt NIT. It was they she got the keys from--it was they who gave wrongful permission to drive. Has no one hardly give this a thought. ASK THIS, who actually responsible for this CRIME---not accident. The ok by the parents or just the Brat, or BOTH ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceybonus Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 To the people who say that probation is no deterrent.. are you mad? Do you think that prison is a deterrent ?? Also, this was an accident not a murder, as such no deterrent is applicable. Many lives have been lost or destroyed as a result of this... you want to now destroy the life of a young girl ????? YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WitawatWatawit Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Ginjag is correct. In the absence of the judicial system making the parents criminally responsible for this tragic incident, which they clearly are, then only social approbrium is left. Name and shame the parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Unfortunately, there was no REHABILITATION component to the young woman's sentencing so the judge's argument falls apart. So, no jail time and no rehabilitation through meaningful long term community service. (48 hours???!!! What a joke!)This young woman sails on through her spoiled life having learned the lesson that, yes, she is indeed above the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billphillips Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Hopefully the civil claims against the driver and the owner of the car will bring financial hardship or even ruin to those involved. I can think of no defence, particularly as, all be it a paltry sentence, the guilty verdict was returned in the criminal court. I have never heard of an unlicensed driver being covered by an "any driver" clause of an insurance policy. In any case each claim has a fairly low limit. I have read elsewhere that the lawyers of the deceased families are seeking ฿210 million. I hope that gets the girls attention. Edited May 13, 2015 by billphillips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominique355 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Although I have not researched to send out links I seem to recall that if a minor commits a serious crime like killing people they are incarcerated into a prison for minors and then when they reach the age of 18 they are moved into a normal prison. This girl, although a minor at the time of the incident was not a child and she knowingly got behind the wheel of that car without a license making her culpable for her actions. The statement this thread makes about it being in line with international standards is probably only made to appease the ignorant who believe what they read in the Thai news Before treating others ignorant you might want to brush up your knowledge in criminal law. You might find that in criminal law there is a huge difference between premeditated killing and accidental death by negligent behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominique355 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 This case turns out more and mare as a hateful revenge driven witch hunt by people who not only don't know the facts but also have no clue about criminal law. Is the girl being punished more severely because her parents are rich? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 "She was a minor at the time of the accident. For juveniles, courts focus on rehabilitation, not incarceration," she said." And she's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Although I have not researched to send out links I seem to recall that if a minor commits a serious crime like killing people they are incarcerated into a prison for minors and then when they reach the age of 18 they are moved into a normal prison. This girl, although a minor at the time of the incident was not a child and she knowingly got behind the wheel of that car without a license making her culpable for her actions. The statement this thread makes about it being in line with international standards is probably only made to appease the ignorant who believe what they read in the Thai news She got behind the wheel, fully knowing it was illegal and not caring about any possible consequences as she new mummy, daddy and the "family" are wealthy and connected enough to ensure anything could be sorted without problems. She's probably pissed she can't drive now until she's 25 and might even have to do a driving test. Hope they get hammered for compensation by the civil courts because this girl will never be really punished or really care what she did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 To the people who say that probation is no deterrent.. are you mad? Do you think that prison is a deterrent ?? Also, this was an accident not a murder, as such no deterrent is applicable. Many lives have been lost or destroyed as a result of this... you want to now destroy the life of a young girl ????? Why don't you organise a whip round to have her car repaired if it makes you feel better? Prison may not be the answer but that is exactly where her killer would be if she had been a passenger on that minibus, I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheard Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 The parents and the car owner don't seem to get a mention. They are partially responsible for this catastrophe and should be prosecuted heavily! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernphil Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 The silly Kao judge has proved her worth. " Accident not murder " Wrong ,manslaughter, Once again I say , killing many people is not an accident. An accident is something unavoidable..............I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Although I have not researched to send out links I seem to recall that if a minor commits a serious crime like killing people they are incarcerated into a prison for minors and then when they reach the age of 18 they are moved into a normal prison. This girl, although a minor at the time of the incident was not a child and she knowingly got behind the wheel of that car without a license making her culpable for her actions. The statement this thread makes about it being in line with international standards is probably only made to appease the ignorant who believe what they read in the Thai news Before treating others ignorant you might want to brush up your knowledge in criminal law. You might find that in criminal law there is a huge difference between premeditated killing and accidental death by negligent behavior. Absolutely correct, but I suspect that it is the lack of any remorse shown and the ''higher than thou'' attitude on display instead that riles people. It definitely riles me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> To the people who say that probation is no deterrent.. are you mad? Do you think that prison is a deterrent ?? Also, this was an accident not a murder, as such no deterrent is applicable. Many lives have been lost or destroyed as a result of this... you want to now destroy the life of a young girl ????? What about justice and a feeling of justice for the numerous families who lost love ones? Perhaps this point even stronger since the families of the deceased say the girl / nobody has ever contacted them to show remorse, show concern etc. An on top of that the girl and her family filed for reduction of the sentence? The families of the deceased have a right to be very upset on several fronts. The girl knew she didn't have a license etc etc., she needs to suffer some punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> "She was a minor at the time of the accident. For juveniles, courts focus on rehabilitation, not incarceration," she said." And she's right. So where's the rehabilitation - report to her probation officer 3 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 This case turns out more and mare as a hateful revenge driven witch hunt by people who not only don't know the facts but also have no clue about criminal law. Is the girl being punished more severely because her parents are rich? I don't think she's being punished more severely because her parents are rich, do you? I did follow this case at the time. This judge is correct in her comments about rehabilitation being the aim rather than incarceration. Will she learn - who knows? Would a poor, unconnected, juvenile who caused the deaths of so many by recklessly driving underage - and not for the first time, be given a similar sentence, consistent with the law? Ask yourself. Let's also see how Thai law treats the two wealthy Chinese-American rich kids who brutally assaulted an Aussie boy and caused him very serious GBH. Their wealthy parents were here like a shot, and although promises were made that justice would be done, it's all gone quiet. Let's see how that one progresses and then ask if poor people would receive the same. If you follow Thai cases, the investigations, decisions to charge and prosecute, the results and punishments on convictions, and even the reporting, you will I suggest, see a very big difference between the way the rich/famous/hiso/well connected are treated and the poor / others / majority of citizens. Do you believe the Red Bull Boy will ever face justice - I don't. And the family wealth reputation and business brand will not be affected one little bit. Now, do you think a poor person who ran over, killed and dragged the body, then left the scene whilst speeding, drunk and on drugs would be afforded such courtesies? Criminal law differs from country to country so which law is it that your fully conversant with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NongKhaiKid Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 As I understand things, and I'm more than happy to be corrected, Thai judges do not use precedent, case law and the like so are we to believe the judge quoted is actually reading case law, reports, papers produced by judges and lawyers from other jurisdictions and so on to broaden her knowledge ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatboy Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 saw the thai news channel yesterday when one of the mothers was interveiwed,she said not once has she said SORRY. so maybe the judge should have sent her to an APROVED SCHOOL to learn how to say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzra Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 This type of ruling send the wrong message, and the message is that as long as you're a juvenile, you can commit any crimes to your heart content and you will get out of it with a slap on the wrist, Today's ' juveniles ' are very much adults, at 17, many of the so called juveniles are married, in higher educations intuitions or full time work, drive, have bank account and loans and very much like adults, and yet, the courts treat them as kids.... something is wrong here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> "She was a minor at the time of the accident. For juveniles, courts focus on rehabilitation, not incarceration," she said." And she's right. So where's the rehabilitation - report to her probation officer 3 months? That's a different issue to those claiming she should have been gaoled for however long they see fit. More needs to be done on her rehabilitation for sure, but gaol is not the place for someone her age to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominique355 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 This type of ruling send the wrong message, and the message is that as long as you're a juvenile, you can commit any crimes to your heart content and you will get out of it with a slap on the wrist, Today's ' juveniles ' are very much adults, at 17, many of the so called juveniles are married, in higher educations intuitions or full time work, drive, have bank account and loans and very much like adults, and yet, the courts treat them as kids.... something is wrong here... Indeed something wrong here, including accusing her of driving while under the legal age and even incriminating her family when - as you say rightly - young people today are mature much earlier now (in some countries today you can get a driver's license at 16!). It's kind of a conflict of interest. You cannot request her to be punished like an adult and at the same time accusing her of driving under age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangebrew Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Ok let's put into perspective 1. At 17 years legally yes a minor, But does at that age should know difference between of right and wrong. 2. No drivers license and driving Also possibly on the phone at time of accident.. Right or wrong? 3. Because of her actions 9 people lost there lives. In the real world your honor a judge should have took into fact that people died maybe not of high status but people just the same. The judge should have held a trial to see if it merited charging her as an adult. And if ruling said yes then she should have stood trail as an adult. And if she was then found guilty of her actions then punishment should have been handed down as an adult. That is how it is done in the real world. My 5 year old knows the difference between right and wrong. I'm very sure if a family member of the judge was killed in that accident that young lady would be in the darkest hole living on rotten rice and muddy water. Hoping one day to see the light of day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLock Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 So when do we expect the ferrari driving cop killer to appear in court and be charger with manslaughter? He's not a minor. Let's also look at international practice for the well-off criminals. Talk about Justice Red Bull heir Vorayuth Yoovidhaya is still in Singapore evading prosecution . It should be easy to extradite the scum bag This is who should be apprehended and put on trial . He hit and killed a police officer Just because he is the Red Bull Heir means he can pay people off so to avoid prosecution OK then Lets boycott Red Bull He has been back for a long time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerbri Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 The fact that she has had her appeal turned down opens the door for a civil action. Twelve live's lost because of this woman's reckless driving deserves a huge payout to the families concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z42 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 This type of ruling send the wrong message, and the message is that as long as you're a juvenile, you can commit any crimes to your heart content and you will get out of it with a slap on the wrist, Today's ' juveniles ' are very much adults, at 17, many of the so called juveniles are married, in higher educations intuitions or full time work, drive, have bank account and loans and very much like adults, and yet, the courts treat them as kids.... something is wrong here... Indeed something wrong here, including accusing her of driving while under the legal age and even incriminating her family when - as you say rightly - young people today are mature much earlier now (in some countries today you can get a driver's license at 16!). It's kind of a conflict of interest. You cannot request her to be punished like an adult and at the same time accusing her of driving under age. Great attempt at trolling but the fact is that at 16 years of age she was an underage driver, her lack of a licence meant she was an unlicenced driver. 2 things that in the eyes of the law prohibit somebody from driving. Personally I feel her parents were wrong for giving her the car and encouraging her to drive it unsupervised as it is clearly against the law, and for good reason. Had either of these things happened then there wouldn't be any problem and the 9 broken families wouldn't be unbroken. The hi so family have never expressed any sorrow or regret for what has happened, and by their latest challenge to the court have the feeling that the lenient judgement against their daughter is inconvenient and should be lightened more. The families of the bereaved have likely suffered terrible hardships through no fault of their own. So if you're going to defend this immoral brat and her seriously out of touch immediate family member then you must do much better, or better stil, say nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavisH Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 So where is the rehabilitation factor in the sentence she was given. And please don't say '48 hours of public service'. But please do tell me that the '48 hours...' component is related to medical attention and/or rehabilitation of folks hurt / seriously hurt in traffic accidents. A month riding shotgun with an emergency response crew will change her life forever. She needs to stare death in the face. She can help carry out mangled bodies from wrecked vans and cars. Maybe she will understand. But I seriously doubt this will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 People on this forum are often outraged that here in Thailand families with money can achieve better outcomes in court than the poor. This is in no way unique to Thailand, in fact the USA is a country where there is a massive difference between sentencing for middle class defendants who can afford a decent lawyer, and poor people who are stuck with the public defender. It's a reality of life that if you can afford decent legal representation then doors open that would remain closed to the poor. I don't believe the people here are as outraged as you suggest. Anyone living in Thailand knows how the system works for hi-so here and probably expected the outcome of this case. I think people are more outraged at the audacity the judge has to say that his judgment is in line with global standards to justify typical Thai justice for hi-so citizens Please speak for yourself in stead of 'anywone living here in Thailand'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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