Ousted Thai PM Yingluck proclaims innocence as criminal trial starts

[winstonc]

I don't think what they are doing to yingluck is right and proper you cant blame a prime minister for everything that happens and I think in this case they are making her a scapegoat .

who to blame then she was in charge of the scheme sir we all know that even her loyal band of groupies on here..

[winstonc]

It is very very safe to say the fascist contributors to any thread involving the Shinawats don't speak Thai at all [past bar-girl vocabulary] while the Shinawats indeed do speak English. Yingluk's American-English accent is not good -- but my Thai accent in rural Thailand is much worse.

I quite understand that your Thai is limited, and that you get your input via your politically biased g/f, but that is no reason to assume that deficiency extends to other posters. None of whom AFAIK claim to have completed a higher education degree in Thai.

The extent of the Shinawatras abuse of the democratic system to further their criminality is more than obvious. What leads you to ignore that?

"I quite understand that your Thai is limited, ..." is not what I wrote. Can't you be right about anything? I said my accent is poor. I live in a country town of about 16,000 where I seem to be the only Westerner. So the chances you speak Thai better than I are nil, no matter how bad my accent.

555 .. correct, just another example of the TV "make up your own facts and then go crazy with them" brigade.

You see, in a moment of irony lost on our dear friend .. your Thai is so good, that you understand how bad your accent is.

This "Thai Visa Expert on all things Thai" is so busy making fun of a PM who DID NOT MAJOR IN ENGLISH:

Yingluck grew up in Chiang Mai and attended Regina Coeli College, a private girls' school, for the lower secondary level, followed by Yupparaj College, a co-educational school, at the upper secondary level. She graduated with a BA degree from the Faculty of Political Science and Public Administration, at Chiang Mai University in 1988 and received a MPA degree (specialization in Management Information Systems) from Kentucky State University in 1991.

And mocking Thai for struggling with the L & R of English .. that he does not know there are Thai tonal combinations that it is close to impossible to mimic.

Impossible really. My wife is Thai, with a college education. She tries so patiently to get me to say things correctly .. and as you know, much of it sounds like she is saying the same word twice.

To our TV Experts on all things Thai, and frankly, just about everything in this world .. call us when you can talk about chickens and eggs, and it does not sound like you just said the same word five times in a row. (You have no idea what i am talking about, do you? odd, for cultural and language experts)

chicken and egg obvious ..the answer is chicken every one knows that...well some of us i grant you that..

[Nickymaster]

"She is not accused of personal corruption but of failing to prevent alleged graft within the programme...

Is there any PM in Thailand's history that governed over a graft free government? If not, couldn't they all be convicted of negligence, including you know who?

Over ten billions dollars gone, she never attended any rice committee meetings and let her team fabricate fake rice contracts to sell rice cheaply to friends and others in the Shin clan.

[scorecard]

I don't think what they are doing to yingluck is right and proper you cant blame a prime minister for everything that happens and I think in this case they are making her a scapegoat .

Suggest you do a lot more reading and you will see the point of why there is court action.

[scorecard]

Yingluck herself has said the rice scheme "lifted the quality of life for rice farmers"

Tell that to the families of farmers who went bankrupt and killed themselves months after you failed to deliver payment as promised. Most of them only got paid after you were thrown out of office.

Out of fairness you should also mentioned who stopped the payments to the farmers via an appeal to the courts when Yingluck was still PM.

Out of fairness you should also mention that Yingluck's government stopped paying farmers months before protests. Yingluck dissolved parliament and then found out caretaker governments can't borrow money. She also vowed to pay them without a clue where the money would come from.

Still, knowing the law, abiding by it and respecting it never been a Shiniwatra strong point.

a twist on the truth (as usual) when most know the banks would not cough up the cash in government loans (I wonder why) yet did so when the guys with the guns took over (I wonder why)

it is an obvious inconvenient truth that it was all planned by the ammart many moons ago

So you ignore the fact that when the funds (all calculated to be enough by Kittirat etc.,) ran out she and her cohorts tried (thankfully in vain) to order the Gov't Savings bank and more to use their funds (depositors funds) to pay the farmers. Who protested loudly about this idea? The depositors!

How convenient to have a selective memory.

[Gunna]

Yingluck herself has said the rice scheme "lifted the quality of life for rice farmers" in the poor northeast of a country where subsidies to farmers have long been a cornerstone of Thai politics.

Facts

1) Only around 45% of rice farmers actually qualified for the Rice Scam

eg.Due to eating all the rice they grow

or not growing the right type of rice

or the smart ones - not believing they would actually get paid or paid quickly to repay the loan sharks the money they borrow to rent the land and pay for seed, fertilizer, labour and harvesting

2) " Poor farmers of NE have long been " (fact) able to have their votes bought due to minimal education, poor finances and power of village headman

For more info on the Rice Scheme disaster read this by a professor of agriculture at Australian University

http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2014/03/17/thailands-rice-subsidy-scheme-rotting-away/

[rametindallas]

Yingluck herself has said the rice scheme "lifted the quality of life for rice farmers"

Tell that to the families of farmers who went bankrupt and killed themselves months after you failed to deliver payment as promised. Most of them only got paid after you were thrown out of office.

You understand that they got paid only because the Junta abolished the constitution that prevented payment from being made?

Why were payments not made months before the Amnesty bill fiasco sparked mass protests?

Why didn't she ensure provisions and necessary borrowings were made prior to dissolving parliament?

Why did members of her brother's cabinet insist there was enough money to pay the farmers and then didn't?

Why did she vow the farmers would be paid "next week" when she knew there was no money?

Why wasn't there an election so the voters could kick her and her party out of government?

Oh wait...I just remembered.

Sure, there was an election and it was free and fair but elections are not held to kick someone out but to elect someone. (What are they for where you come from?) Puea Thai party fielded candidates in every voting district and the Democrats boycotted the election (which is perfectly within their rights). Long-standing Thai law states that if a candidate stands in an uncontested district, that candidate must get 40% of the electorate (not just 40% of the votes cast). Because Yingluck's Thaksin's candidates were not popular enough in that election, that was so critical for PTP to win, they could not get even 40% of the voters to turn out and return them to power. In fact, they could not win enough seats to have the minimum to open Parliament. Many of the districts he lost were strongly for Yingluck in 2011. Posters on here keep saying how wildly popular Yingluck and Thaksin are but provably, they couldn't get enough votes to win even with no competition. Sad, really. Maybe they aren't as popular as some people say.

The same thing happened in 2006 when Thaksin held elections after dissolving Parliament. The Democrats boycotted then (as is their right) only that time, Thaksin was so nervous about his popularity (he had just sold his Thai telecoms business to foreigners for $billions and paid not one satang in taxes) and so worried about his chance of losing that he cheated and hired smaller parties to run in districts the Democrats boycotted so all his Thai Rak Thai candidates needed was 50% +1 of the votes cast to win the district (his candidates could technically win with only 3 votes). He got caught and the election was nullified by the Constitutional Court. http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/07/01/thailand.timeline/index.html?iref=allsearch

You would have to think he was stupid to try the same thing in 2013 (expecting the Democrats wouldn't boycott). Maybe he is also not as smart as some posters keep saying. He was clever enough to skim about Bt. 200 billion off the Rice Support Scheme for himself though, so maybe his intelligence only runs to the criminal side.

[ginjag]

I just took note of the angry concerned followers of Yingluck, outside the courthouse were a dozen or so PTP members and about 50----YES 50 followers ??

So outraged is the nation that she is having to attend ???? WOW about 60 in total out of a massive number some TVF members say are with her ???

Maybe I could summon up more than that if I had to attend. Who is kidding who about her massive following, this hearing has been known about long enough for her to get more than ONE bus load. amazing.

It took great courage for anyone to be there under the current jackboot regime, Hats off them I say.

Hats off to you for this statement----wow

[animatic]

The use of the words ' alleged ' and ' allegedly ' for things that are clearly and blatantly obvious in other than court documents is the classic journalistic hedge to prevent prosecution before adjudication. Holding them up as a reason for reasonable doubt before adjudication is not indicator of truth in any claims made.

What is known is that :

Over 800 billion baht was lost.

People were not paid for their rice and killed themselves.

The Thai rice market was priced out of international competition and has yet to recover.

Corrupt deals were officially announced that never existed.

She was warned MANY times by many commentators in and out of governance that this program was completely unsustainable and it was generating astronomical loses daily.

It was a failure in boom times and generated loses when her brother tried it in office. In dire economic times it was catastrophic as predicted.

She officially and formally announced she was on top of the program and her underlings were watching it closely.

Negligence in office is having multiple instances of irregularities

brought to your attention, and nothing is done about it.

Edited May 20, 2015 by animatic

[louse1953]

AFP consistently brings up the threat of further mass political violence if ANY red is prosecuted. Having just come back from a week in the far NE, I call it BS. The general tone. when I tried to raise politics in discussion, was abject apathy. People were well aware that there were huge losses in the rice scam and the G2G rip-off, and they know full well where the money didn't go.

Yingluk will try to say "I did it for my poor supporters" and it will go down like a lead balloon.

BTW must have been in at least 12 homes up there. Not one picture of Thaksin or "the people's darling" to be seen.

Same out my way mate,the rice scam was the last straw.50 supporters at the courthouse.Take her relo's out of that and there wouldn't be much left.

[Nobb]

You have to love this posting. Yingluck or bad luck the Thai people lost billions of baht on Thia rice scheme. She approved all action necessary to sell or steal rice. A expert says that the do not like the family in Thai politics. The brother fled the country and the sister will be next. They won the elections because they paid the poor rice farmers with no education to vote for them. No brainer!

[Guest]

AFP consistently brings up the threat of further mass political violence if ANY red is prosecuted. Having just come back from a week in the far NE, I call it BS. The general tone. when I tried to raise politics in discussion, was abject apathy. People were well aware that there were huge losses in the rice scam and the G2G rip-off, and they know full well where the money didn't go.

Yingluk will try to say "I did it for my poor supporters" and it will go down like a lead balloon.

BTW must have been in at least 12 homes up there. Not one picture of Thaksin or "the people's darling" to be seen.

Same out my way mate,the rice scam was the last straw.50 supporters at the courthouse.Take her relo's out of that and there wouldn't be much left.

(1) About the 50 supporters - Think of a whole number between 43 and 45 ... write it down. Look at it. Does that number, in this context, have any meaning to you? (Hope so, you are an "expert" on this matter)

(2) I asked yesterday about the homes in question. Did they EVER have her picture on the wall, then took it down? That .. would mean something.

Some "voices in my head told me they should have her up there next to HRH, or King Rama 5 ... " .. well, that is between you and those voices.

By the way, I did ask several Issan last night if they would ever consider putting up a picture of an elected politician. Not one. I asked them because from my 5 years here, not once .. ever .. in BKK .. have I seen her face on the wall. But you said someting about small village, so I guessed upcountry. (But ALL agreed on King Rama 5. )

It is amazing to see you circle back with the same story, and not understand, it has value IF they took the pictures DOWN. That is why I keep asking. Or, is this just made up BS? Evidence out of thin air (hmmm, where have i seen that before?)

May I ask, wherever you are from, do you keep a picture of your PM, President, Grand Foobah .. whatever .. up on your wall?

[rametindallas]

Yingluck herself has said the rice scheme "lifted the quality of life for rice farmers"

Tell that to the families of farmers who went bankrupt and killed themselves months after you failed to deliver payment as promised. Most of them only got paid after you were thrown out of office.

That is actually a distortion of facts. The banks refused to release the money until after the coup....

I refuse to see anyone one-dimensionally for the sake of having online forum fake friends.

Both sides are up their elbows in stolen cash, but only one side is being pursued in the "name of justice".

Everyone who isn't a cheerleader notices there were 18 coups, that the "ruinous populist policies" included the health care reform that lets poor people be treated, and that no one even considered a coup or prosecuting negligence when the protesters were shot down in a temple.

Duh.

it seems that on this forum, everyone sees a question as sarcasm or an attack. Please let me ask you a question so I may LEARN.

Where can I read more about this event where it was the banks who refused to release government money? (A rather novel concept)

If there is no public written source, can you please share some of that inside information with me?

Really, I never heard this before .. please expand and elaborate on this thesis.

Thank You.

UPDATE: OK, I did find a good and credible source (Reuters)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/10/us-thailand-protest-idUSBREA1904Y20140210

In that, it said...

"The government lacks the power to transfer money from the central budget to pay for the rice it has committed to buy from farmers, some of whom have not been paid for months. Big banks have refused to offer bridging loans, unconvinced the government has the authority to seek them."

Is the refusal of a Bank to furnish a high risk bridge loan to an administration under siege and on the verge of collapse the same as "The banks refused to release the money until after the coup...." ??

But I think I see your point. If the opposition holds the purse strings, and knows that a failure to pay the rice (bribes) scheme will get the populace on the "throw the bums out" train .. yes .. I do see your point there.

Thanks for this posting, you make me think, do some research and see this a different way.

The Yingluck government set aside a 500 billion Baht fund to get the 'self-funding' Rice Support program running. It was so popular that non-farmers became rice farmers and everyone expanded land under cultivation and, with rice coming from dubious sources (Cambodia, Laos) and corrupt millers double charging the government, etc., the Yingluck government had to borrow an additional 150 billion Baht to keep the program running. That was gone by August of 2013 and payments stopped. There were several attempts by farmers to march on government house but they were stopped by radical, armed elements of the UDD. Also, farmers were threatened with having their houses burned and equipment destroyed if they protested. For three months before PM Yingluck dissolved the House of Representatives, there had been no payments but only weekly, from-the-heart promises, to somehow find them money. In the meantime, farmers were bringing in bumper crops that the government was giving out IOUs for. The Agricultural Bank that had been funding the program was nearly out of credit itself. The Yingluck government still had not made provisions for funding the program when, in December, she dissolved Parliament. Her, now caretaker, government, by Thai Constitutional law, cannot borrow and create debt for a future government but her supporters started the spin machine that you read daily on this forum; blaming it on the Suthep protests or the military coup. Because the government was paying 40% above world prices and wasn't really selling rice on the world market (that's another case that is in the courts now), the scheme really was not self-funding as advertised and, because of the corruption, it ran out of money sooner than planned; even with the extra 150 billion Baht on top of the original 500 billion Baht (all of it off-budget). You don't have to believe me, just start reading the newspaper headlines beginning August 2013 to see who is telling the truth on this forum about when payments stopped and why.

[rametindallas]

Out of fairness you should also mention that Yingluck's government stopped paying farmers months before protests. Yingluck dissolved parliament and then found out caretaker governments can't borrow money. She also vowed to pay them without a clue where the money would come from.

Still, knowing the law, abiding by it and respecting it never been a Shiniwatra strong point.

a twist on the truth (as usual) when most know the banks would not cough up the cash in government loans (I wonder why) yet did so when the guys with the guns took over (I wonder why)

it is an obvious inconvenient truth that it was all planned by the ammart many moons ago

So you ignore the fact that when the funds (all calculated to be enough by Kittirat etc.,) ran out she and her cohorts tried (thankfully in vain) to order the Gov't Savings bank and more to use their funds (depositors funds) to pay the farmers. Who protested loudly about this idea? The depositors!

How convenient to have a selective memory.

It was the Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives that originally loaned the 500 billion that funded the self-funding program plus another 150 billion when the program went over budget. The bank was near insolvency and could not loan more. The bank's employee were yelling the loudest. It was only then that the Yingluck started going to commercial banks to try to keep the self-funding program solvent. Their stockholders saw it as too risky and not their responsibility. They did not cause the mess and certainly weren't in the 'charity for Yingluck' business so they refused. Had the program not been designed from the ground up to fleece the Taxpayers and get Thaksin his 'pound of flesh' for his confiscated wealth. A lot could have been done to help the farmers be more productive and compete in the world market. Giving away unearned money to farmers just makes them lazy and dependent and certainly does not encourage them to become more productive.

[heybruce]

You understand that they got paid only because the Junta abolished the constitution that prevented payment from being made?

Why were payments not made months before the Amnesty bill fiasco sparked mass protests?

Why didn't she ensure provisions and necessary borrowings were made prior to dissolving parliament?

Why did members of her brother's cabinet insist there was enough money to pay the farmers and then didn't?

Why did she vow the farmers would be paid "next week" when she knew there was no money?

Why wasn't there an election so the voters could kick her and her party out of government?

Oh wait...I just remembered.

Because yingluck didn't want one as shown through not protecting any polling stations with the millions of soldiers at her disposal because she knew she would have lost the election because of the very reasons that Baerboxer highlighted and you refuse to answer because you have none!

She had a good hunch too (well her brother did) going by the votes that were tabulated and showed she would have lost.

Again putting the party before the people.

Very pertinent points that were made that you cannot deny held the majority in contempt and you still harp on about an election which even though they would not have won, if they had it reinforces even more the corrosive influence of unsustainable populism in destroying democracies.

But apparently you have a short memory so back to the point. Care to answer the questions that highlighted a contempt for the majority?

Concentrate now, don't change the subject.

djjamie, you're off into fantasy land again, further than usual this time.

First, Thailand doesn't have millions of soldiers. Second, the police assured Yingluck that they could maintain order on election day http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/700884-thai-police-warn-pcad-not-to-sabotage-election/?p=7373532&hl=police+election+february. Third, Yingluck offered to call of the February elections if Suthep and his minions agreed to end protests and allow an election in a few months time http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/699245-thai-pm-yingluck-shinawatra-offers-to-cancel-election/?hl=police%20election%20february. Of course since Suthep's goal was to overthrow the government without an election he didn't go along with that.

For very good reasons Yingluck was trying to keep the military out of the election process, she had assurance from the police that the February election could beheld, and she offered to delay it if the protesters agreed to a peaceful election within a few months. Yingluck and the PTP wanted an election, Suthep and the miltary didn't, and you're imaginative attempt to rewrite history doesn't fool anyone.

I have consistently stated that there should have been an election in July after the February election failed. In your twisted posts you state that my advocacy of elections show a contempt for the majority.

I'm beginning to think you have mental issues. I once attempted to teach math to a student who was incapable of grasping the concept of three dimensional space. You seem to be similarly incapable of grasping the concept of democracy and government chosen by majority vote. Or perhaps you just don't like such a government.

[Muirton]

It is a little prepubescent to make fun of the Asian difficulty with English at times.

It does not matter if you are Japanese,Mexican or Taiwanese. Someone who rightfully holds a Masters Degree in English should do better.

Thank you three times.

Let me see if I understand you.

You are saying that walking through a few thousand people, with hundreds of cameras rolling, on her way to trial .. you have a problem with her English?

I have heard native English speakers with far lower vocabularies and general comprehension skills.

If there is a problem sir, I believe it resides within you.

May I ask what specifically is your complaint?

(You know this is an exercise in futility .. yes? .. that woman could run into a burning building and save three babies and a puppy, and you would make fun of the soot on her nose.)

ok ok you love her we get it move on....deep breathes now lad....

"ok ok you love her" is a typical Comment from the Infantile Fascists crowd. To agree with a political position is not evidence that one "love"s anyone. To so state reflects accurately the level of debate engendered by expat fascists.

[Muirton]

It is very very safe to say the fascist contributors to any thread involving the Shinawats don't speak Thai at all [past bar-girl vocabulary] while the Shinawats indeed do speak English. Yingluk's American-English accent is not good -- but my Thai accent in rural Thailand is much worse.

I quite understand that your Thai is limited, and that you get your input via your politically biased g/f, but that is no reason to assume that deficiency extends to other posters. None of whom AFAIK claim to have completed a higher education degree in Thai.

The extent of the Shinawatras abuse of the democratic system to further their criminality is more than obvious. What leads you to ignore that?

Reality compels.

And BS smells.

Do your contributions to threads on ThaiVisa always display this high level of intelligence and analysis?

[baboon]

You have to love this posting. Yingluck or bad luck the Thai people lost billions of baht on Thia rice scheme. She approved all action necessary to sell or steal rice. A expert says that the do not like the family in Thai politics. The brother fled the country and the sister will be next. They won the elections because they paid the poor rice farmers with no education to vote for them. No brainer!

Fine. Let the people speak loud and clear at the ballot box and let this family know their time in politics is well and truly over. Problem solved and the country moves on..

[halloween]

I quite understand that your Thai is limited, and that you get your input via your politically biased g/f, but that is no reason to assume that deficiency extends to other posters. None of whom AFAIK claim to have completed a higher education degree in Thai.

The extent of the Shinawatras abuse of the democratic system to further their criminality is more than obvious. What leads you to ignore that?

Reality compels.

And BS smells.

Do your contributions to threads on ThaiVisa always display this high level of intelligence and analysis?

No, I usually respond in equal quality to the post I am replying to. Should you offer an answer to my question 'Why do you ignore the obvious criminality of the Shinawatras?" I would be more than happy to answer in a meaningful way. However stating that "Reality compels" is simply ignoring the truth and hoping it will go away, and entitles you to nothing more than the answer you received.

I apologise if I asked an inconvenient question. Was there any attempt at critical self-analysis, or is that too painful?

[philw]

You have to love this posting. Yingluck or bad luck the Thai people lost billions of baht on Thia rice scheme. She approved all action necessary to sell or steal rice. A expert says that the do not like the family in Thai politics. The brother fled the country and the sister will be next. They won the elections because they paid the poor rice farmers with no education to vote for them. No brainer!

Yes, Nobb.

[heybruce]

Reality compels.

And BS smells.

Do your contributions to threads on ThaiVisa always display this high level of intelligence and analysis?

No, I usually respond in equal quality to the post I am replying to. Should you offer an answer to my question 'Why do you ignore the obvious criminality of the Shinawatras?" I would be more than happy to answer in a meaningful way. However stating that "Reality compels" is simply ignoring the truth and hoping it will go away, and entitles you to nothing more than the answer you received.

I apologise if I asked an inconvenient question. Was there any attempt at critical self-analysis, or is that too painful?

Getting back to the OP, what is the obvious criminality of Yingluck? I'm sure if there were evidence of corruption the junta would happily try her for corruption.

Instead they are trying her for negligence, which could open the door to many prosecutions. For example, there were dozens of illegal refugee camps in the south, where the military had many men supposedly guarding the area. This strikes many as criminal negligence.

On a more farcical note, there's the submarine base with no submarines. Did someone negligently forget to order submarines, or neglect to cancel plans for the base? Either way, it seems seriously negligent.

In a democracy the voters deal with negligent elected officials. Too bad Thailand doesn't have a democracy.

[Guest]

Yingluck herself has said the rice scheme "lifted the quality of life for rice farmers"

Tell that to the families of farmers who went bankrupt and killed themselves months after you failed to deliver payment as promised. Most of them only got paid after you were thrown out of office.

That is actually a distortion of facts. The banks refused to release the money until after the coup....

I refuse to see anyone one-dimensionally for the sake of having online forum fake friends.

Both sides are up their elbows in stolen cash, but only one side is being pursued in the "name of justice".

Everyone who isn't a cheerleader notices there were 18 coups, that the "ruinous populist policies" included the health care reform that lets poor people be treated, and that no one even considered a coup or prosecuting negligence when the protesters were shot down in a temple.

Duh.

it seems that on this forum, everyone sees a question as sarcasm or an attack. Please let me ask you a question so I may LEARN.

Where can I read more about this event where it was the banks who refused to release government money? (A rather novel concept)

If there is no public written source, can you please share some of that inside information with me?

Really, I never heard this before .. please expand and elaborate on this thesis.

Thank You.

UPDATE: OK, I did find a good and credible source (Reuters)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/10/us-thailand-protest-idUSBREA1904Y20140210

In that, it said...

"The government lacks the power to transfer money from the central budget to pay for the rice it has committed to buy from farmers, some of whom have not been paid for months. Big banks have refused to offer bridging loans, unconvinced the government has the authority to seek them."

Is the refusal of a Bank to furnish a high risk bridge loan to an administration under siege and on the verge of collapse the same as "The banks refused to release the money until after the coup...." ??

But I think I see your point. If the opposition holds the purse strings, and knows that a failure to pay the rice (bribes) scheme will get the populace on the "throw the bums out" train .. yes .. I do see your point there.

Thanks for this posting, you make me think, do some research and see this a different way.

The Yingluck government set aside a 500 billion Baht fund to get the 'self-funding' Rice Support program running. It was so popular that non-farmers became rice farmers and everyone expanded land under cultivation and, with rice coming from dubious sources (Cambodia, Laos) and corrupt millers double charging the government, etc., the Yingluck government had to borrow an additional 150 billion Baht to keep the program running. That was gone by August of 2013 and payments stopped. There were several attempts by farmers to march on government house but they were stopped by radical, armed elements of the UDD. Also, farmers were threatened with having their houses burned and equipment destroyed if they protested. For three months before PM Yingluck dissolved the House of Representatives, there had been no payments but only weekly, from-the-heart promises, to somehow find them money. In the meantime, farmers were bringing in bumper crops that the government was giving out IOUs for. The Agricultural Bank that had been funding the program was nearly out of credit itself. The Yingluck government still had not made provisions for funding the program when, in December, she dissolved Parliament. Her, now caretaker, government, by Thai Constitutional law, cannot borrow and create debt for a future government but her supporters started the spin machine that you read daily on this forum; blaming it on the Suthep protests or the military coup. Because the government was paying 40% above world prices and wasn't really selling rice on the world market (that's another case that is in the courts now), the scheme really was not self-funding as advertised and, because of the corruption, it ran out of money sooner than planned; even with the extra 150 billion Baht on top of the original 500 billion Baht (all of it off-budget). You don't have to believe me, just start reading the newspaper headlines beginning August 2013 to see who is telling the truth on this forum about when payments stopped and why.

Thank you for taking time to write and post that.

These are the times I enjoy TV .. because I get to see things from different angles and learn a thing or two !

[Wombat6]

from comments by Yingluck lovers on this forum you would think that the "darling of Isaan" (is not as popular as they think) could muster up more than 38 supporters to greet her at the Supreme Court.

[scorecard]

from comments by Yingluck lovers on this forum you would think that the "darling of Isaan" (is not as popular as they think) could muster up more than 38 supporters to greet her at the Supreme Court.

Some of the pt, red, udd cheerleaders who accompanied her: nuttawut, plodprasop, kornkaow...

The joke is that the accompanying cheerleaders all have political / police / justice histories that make then close to undesirables.

Edited May 21, 2015 by scorecard

[scorecard]

From Heybruce:

... Instead they are trying her for negligence, which could open the door to many prosecutions. For example, there were dozens of illegal refugee camps in the south, where the military had many men supposedly guarding the area. This strikes many as criminal negligence.

On a more farcical note, there's the submarine base with no submarines. Did someone negligently forget to order submarines, or neglect to cancel plans for the base? Either way, it seems seriously negligent.

In a democracy the voters deal with negligent elected officials. Too bad Thailand doesn't have a democracy.

Me:

Well bruce no doubt you would have preferred the totally democratic government (a wonderful model of democracy) which yingluck lead.

But there's one serious problem that you and some others seem to be blind to, she wasn't leading a democracy, she was the pupper front man for the development (with some success) of a dictatorship.

"...the voters deal with negligent elected officials. " Nice text book theory bruce but with no connection whatever to the realities of the Thai situation.

Your comments bruce about opening the door to other prosecutions. Well if your a supporter of democracy then you would be rooting for equal application of the law and justice regardless of political affiliations etc., rather than making comments which are basically 'don't investigate it may bounce back'.

[heybruce]

From Heybruce:

... Instead they are trying her for negligence, which could open the door to many prosecutions. For example, there were dozens of illegal refugee camps in the south, where the military had many men supposedly guarding the area. This strikes many as criminal negligence.

On a more farcical note, there's the submarine base with no submarines. Did someone negligently forget to order submarines, or neglect to cancel plans for the base? Either way, it seems seriously negligent.

In a democracy the voters deal with negligent elected officials. Too bad Thailand doesn't have a democracy.

Me:

Well bruce no doubt you would have preferred the totally democratic government (a wonderful model of democracy) which yingluck lead.

But there's one serious problem that you and some others seem to be blind to, she wasn't leading a democracy, she was the pupper front man for the development (with some success) of a dictatorship.

"...the voters deal with negligent elected officials. " Nice text book theory bruce but with no connection whatever to the realities of the Thai situation.

Your comments bruce about opening the door to other prosecutions. Well if your a supporter of democracy then you would be rooting for equal application of the law and justice regardless of political affiliations etc., rather than making comments which are basically 'don't investigate it may bounce back'.

The old, ridiculous claim that it wasn't a democracy because Yingluck listened to her brother. Yigluck made no secret of the fact that she would be taking advice from her brother, in fact she campaigned on the promise to act on Thaksin's behalf and her party received far more votes than any other. Just because you don't like the voters choice doesn't change the fact that it was a democratic government that came to power by a legitimate election and was toppled in the most undemocratic manner possible.

Yes, I preferred the elected government of the PTP to military rule, and I would have preferred that the people of Thailand been given the choice of keeping or changing the PTP government through a new election. The reality of the situation is that the military did not want an elected government and saw to it that there wouldn't be one.

Do you really think that the junta is providing equal application of the law and justice regardless of political affiliation? The only purpose of this prosecution is to keep the Shinawatra's out of government. If they could have proven corruption the junta would be trying Yingluck for corruption, but this prosecution for negligence is the best they could come up with. To my knowledge this type of prosecution has never been done to a prominent elected official in Thailand before, it certainly has never been done to a high ranking military officer, and it probably will never be done again after this show trial. Do you consider that equal application of the law and justice?

[philw]

From Heybruce:

... Instead they are trying her for negligence, which could open the door to many prosecutions. For example, there were dozens of illegal refugee camps in the south, where the military had many men supposedly guarding the area. This strikes many as criminal negligence.

On a more farcical note, there's the submarine base with no submarines. Did someone negligently forget to order submarines, or neglect to cancel plans for the base? Either way, it seems seriously negligent.

In a democracy the voters deal with negligent elected officials. Too bad Thailand doesn't have a democracy.

Me:

Well bruce no doubt you would have preferred the totally democratic government (a wonderful model of democracy) which yingluck lead.

But there's one serious problem that you and some others seem to be blind to, she wasn't leading a democracy, she was the pupper front man for the development (with some success) of a dictatorship.

"...the voters deal with negligent elected officials. " Nice text book theory bruce but with no connection whatever to the realities of the Thai situation.

Your comments bruce about opening the door to other prosecutions. Well if your a supporter of democracy then you would be rooting for equal application of the law and justice regardless of political affiliations etc., rather than making comments which are basically 'don't investigate it may bounce back'.

The old, ridiculous claim that it wasn't a democracy because Yingluck listened to her brother. Yigluck made no secret of the fact that she would be taking advice from her brother, in fact she campaigned on the promise to act on Thaksin's behalf and her party received far more votes than any other. Just because you don't like the voters choice doesn't change the fact that it was a democratic government that came to power by a legitimate election and was toppled in the most undemocratic manner possible.

Yes, I preferred the elected government of the PTP to military rule, and I would have preferred that the people of Thailand been given the choice of keeping or changing the PTP government through a new election. The reality of the situation is that the military did not want an elected government and saw to it that there wouldn't be one.

Do you really think that the junta is providing equal application of the law and justice regardless of political affiliation? The only purpose of this prosecution is to keep the Shinawatra's out of government. If they could have proven corruption the junta would be trying Yingluck for corruption, but this prosecution for negligence is the best they could come up with. To my knowledge this type of prosecution has never been done to a prominent elected official in Thailand before, it certainly has never been done to a high ranking military officer, and it probably will never be done again after this show trial. Do you consider that equal application of the law and justice?

Well said.

[Robby nz]

from comments by Yingluck lovers on this forum you would think that the "darling of Isaan" (is not as popular as they think) could muster up more than 38 supporters to greet her at the Supreme Court.

Some of the pt, red, udd cheerleaders who accompanied her: nuttawut, plodprasop, kornkaow...

The joke is that the accompanying cheerleaders all have political / police / justice histories that make then close to undesirables.

Think you missed out Jattuporn.

Was thinking the same thing when I read the list of names, would make a good police line up with most of them on bail for serious charges and awaiting appeal as well as suspended sentences. The 'close' would be on the underside of undesirable.

But its all a witch hunt to remove political opponents, you should know that by now you have been told often enough.

[gemguy]

I have to agree.

I despise the Yellow shirts more than the Red shirts while a guilty verdict with leniency is one thing while a guilty verdict with a prison sentence may just be the match that lights the rage within the mass of citizens that may very well more than protest this vindictive move.

Throwing the book at her is not going to stop the endemic corruption and wide spread malfeasance practiced by the politicians and the rich and powerful and or the police and military and anyone who is in a position to do so or realizes an opportunity to do so.

What it will do is thwart the efforts of the opposition to the existing Status Quo....but it will not stop the opposition from politically challenging the Status Quo from gaining political ground in some way and finding other means to do so.

You can only surmise when a non Yellow Shirt political party gains power I guess they will feel justified when they go about vindictively suppressing the Yellow Shirt opposition and more or less copy the way the military is presently maneuvering about to suppress the opposition at present.

A sort of vicious cycle that will never end.

Cheers

What is vindictive about asking the ex-PM where B700 billion went to? Even the NE red supporters would like that answered because they know THEY didn't get it.

And what did the nation get for that huge sum? A corrupt and incompetent government more interested in the boss than them isn't what they want to hear.

Very simple.

Then hold all prime ministers former, present and in the future responsible for any programs that did not or do not meet or exceed the expectations of the political opposition......all based on where did the money go.

What you point out is the same for every Thai government administration that has been in power ( mainly the Yellow Shits )

They should also be held accountable for all the billions they stole or miss managed long before Yingluck came along....but they are not being held accountable....and never will be as long as the military is there to make sure they are not held accountable....but their political opposition will be made accountable by the military...under threat of military force if need be.

If you can not see that the Military administrations maneuvering is vindictive then you are missing what is really going on in the guise of Justice being served.

This will not stop the present government administration from plundering the government coffers and neither will it stop the Yellow shirts party from plundering the government coffers when they are put back into power by the Military

I'm glad that you agree. I certainly have no problem with all being held accountable. But where should we start; with those long dead or having fled the country?

How about with the one still here, with her excesses large and recent in the eyes of the punters?

Have you any proof that the current government is "plundering the government coffers"?

Not saying that she should go unaccountable..

.Just realize that she should not be the only one held accountable ( actually stupid holding one person accountable ) ...while those forcing her to be accountable are hardly trustworthy individuals themselves while manipulating her demise.

Do you have any proof that they are not plundering the government coffers?????...... while I would wager any amount of money bet on: They are plundering the government coffers...as usual......lol

[Jimbolai]

The Bangkok elite against the working farmers.

Democracy stolen at gun point.