Immigration Confirms The End Of Border Runs From Oct 1, 2006

[stevenl]

There have been a few people saying this will be disastrous to the diving industry, no more tourists and no more instructors.

I run a dive business on Phuket, and on Phuket you will find nearly no farang dive instructors without a workpermit. I expect the situation to be different on e.g. Koh Tao though.

Regarding the tourists: most tourists really don't stay longer than 90 days in any country, so I don't think this will have much impact on the dive industry as a whole.

[gharknes]

after reading the various post here would I be correct in assuming this does not effect multiple entry type O visa, I leave for the UK next month to renew my visa after being here for 14 months, this is all a little confusing, I did border runs every 90 days because I had too, I rent a property here and own a motor vehicle and other stuff, I don't work, I live with my GF

[cclub75]

"Instead of doing border hopping totalling more than 90 days in a row"

And what happens it's not 90 days in a row ?

I mean : 2 weeks Thailand, 1 week outside, 1 week thailand etc.

Update - Confirmation:

I spoke with one of the top bosses at Immigration HQ in Bangkok 5 minutes ago. All the info mentioned in the Forbes article quoted in post #1 of this thread is 100% correct and confirmed.

The Thai Immigration Bureau are distrubuting info to all border posts while we speak. I can confirm that this will happen, starting October 1, 2006. The rules are old, but not enforced until now.

Be prepaired to apply for a Tourist- or Non-Immigrant visa instead of doing border hopping totalling more than 90 days in a row.

More info as I have it. Maybe Sunbelt have additional info?

[lung]

do you really think now they give out

"unlimited" touristvisa ??

maybe one (1) per year

Edited September 11, 2006 by lung

[creation2474]

do you really think now they give out

"unlimited" touristvisa ??

maybe one (1) per year

Do you really think that i would think that they would give "unlimited" numbers of tourist visas?

Of course not. It would be the epitome of irrationality. But ain't that Thailand, btw?!!

[Ed.Lee]

Its a heck of a thing really. Changing a long standing thing like border/visa runs, with only a few weeks notice. Doesn't give folks a lot of room to make alternate plans.

I have read this topic with interest, being someone who uses the border services faithfully as a means of staying here with my fiance. She has a business, bought with my money, we are not well off but have each other. We are happy enough, we help support her family, brothers, sisters etc, as you do. This change is going to hurt us.

There is as usuall lot of judgement on these boards, the 'I'm alright jack so sod off the rest of you.' type comments are understandable, it makes me wonder where some people's compassion is but each to their own.

We can't marry yet her and I as I don't have a spare 400,000 baht in the bank, so I dont have the marriage visa yet.

The option of going out of the country and coming back in with a visa is fine, it will cost us more than the monthly visa run and we won't beable to send money to her mum etc but we'll bounce back.

Thing is, we're good people her and I. Sure we're poor and we're caught between the red tape but we help the Thai's near to us, we share what little we have. This change is going to make that less possible, we'll survive but I would have prefered some more notice. We have small investments which pay out in Jan and that money would have gone towards our marriage money, this is just going to slow us down, Flights, room, travel, visa, all adds up.

Being poor isn't a crime but sometimes it feels like a punishment, you know?

I feel for anyone who is hurt by this change.

Good luck to us all.

[Paulv]

Have you not got better things to do then antagonise people who are trying to work through a crisis

Crisis? Very melodramatic. A crisis is when you find out you have cancer.

Or

No gas in your flying airplane.

Getting a legal visa is not a crisis. Stop being a baby about it and do the right thing.

Flying airplane eh? I didnt know there was anyother kind. Thanks for your advice Einstein

I don't see many airplanes "flying" when they are "parked" in a hanger. Is that another "kind" ? Gee I hate smart assed nit pickers!

that sounds like the pot calling the kettle black

[sossn]

well i just believe that Thailand will loose face over this plus all so tourismn and that will mean a bonus to cambodia and Laos as the are both visa friendly countries i was going to Thailand in October and this has changed my whole schedule and caused me to rethink my options

[beammeup]

Its a heck of a thing really. Changing a long standing thing like border/visa runs, with only a few weeks notice. Doesn't give folks a lot of room to make alternate plans.

I have read this topic with interest, being someone who uses the border services faithfully as a means of staying here with my fiance. She has a business, bought with my money, we are not well off but have each other. We are happy enough, we help support her family, brothers, sisters etc, as you do. This change is going to hurt us.

There is as usuall lot of judgement on these boards, the 'I'm alright jack so sod off the rest of you.' type comments are understandable, it makes me wonder where some people's compassion is but each to their own.

We can't marry yet her and I as I don't have a spare 400,000 baht in the bank, so I dont have the marriage visa yet.

The option of going out of the country and coming back in with a visa is fine, it will cost us more than the monthly visa run and we won't beable to send money to her mum etc but we'll bounce back.

Thing is, we're good people her and I. Sure we're poor and we're caught between the red tape but we help the Thai's near to us, we share what little we have. This change is going to make that less possible, we'll survive but I would have prefered some more notice. We have small investments which pay out in Jan and that money would have gone towards our marriage money, this is just going to slow us down, Flights, room, travel, visa, all adds up.

Being poor isn't a crime but sometimes it feels like a punishment, you know?

I feel for anyone who is hurt by this change.

Good luck to us all.

I feel for yah, I am in the same boat. If I would have known before I left the I would have taken all the docs I need to apply for an O visa, and instead of returning to Bangkok I would have returned to Penang or Singapore. A lot of good people will be screwed. Alot of bad people will continue to find other loopholes.

[VanZam]

Its a heck of a thing really. Changing a long standing thing like border/visa runs, with only a few weeks notice. Doesn't give folks a lot of room to make alternate plans.

I have read this topic with interest, being someone who uses the border services faithfully as a means of staying here with my fiance. She has a business, bought with my money, we are not well off but have each other. We are happy enough, we help support her family, brothers, sisters etc, as you do. This change is going to hurt us.

There is as usuall lot of judgement on these boards, the 'I'm alright jack so sod off the rest of you.' type comments are understandable, it makes me wonder where some people's compassion is but each to their own.

We can't marry yet her and I as I don't have a spare 400,000 baht in the bank, so I dont have the marriage visa yet.

The option of going out of the country and coming back in with a visa is fine, it will cost us more than the monthly visa run and we won't beable to send money to her mum etc but we'll bounce back.

Thing is, we're good people her and I. Sure we're poor and we're caught between the red tape but we help the Thai's near to us, we share what little we have. This change is going to make that less possible, we'll survive but I would have prefered some more notice. We have small investments which pay out in Jan and that money would have gone towards our marriage money, this is just going to slow us down, Flights, room, travel, visa, all adds up.

Being poor isn't a crime but sometimes it feels like a punishment, you know?

I feel for anyone who is hurt by this change.

Good luck to us all.

I feel for yah, I am in the same boat. If I would have known before I left the I would have taken all the docs I need to apply for an O visa, and instead of returning to Bangkok I would have returned to Penang or Singapore. A lot of good people will be screwed. Alot of bad people will continue to find other loopholes.

If you can convince a thai embassy that you plan on getting married, they will give you a non-immigrant O visa (3 months).. obviously this is not a sure thing, but I did it a few times before marrying. The embassy in laos is pretty good for that sort of thing.

Best of luck to you both.

[CymruAmByth]

George wrote a lot of true stuff here

Well, what the hel_l! LOS makes it very easy to stay, just stick to the rules.

I had a company here and my proper work permit, and I was paying taxes. Now I am retired, and I got my proper retirement visa. Where is the problem? If anyone wants to stay here, (s)he should read the rules and decide if (s)he can accept it. If not, (s)he should stay where (s)he is. You always have the option to spend your holidays here.

Thank you for your attention,

a happy guy from Phuket, who got no visa problems.

this flip and shallow response shows a great deal of ignorance and lack of understanding of the complexity of this situation. I "live" in Thailand by virtue of the 30-day stay/monthly visa runs, etc., yes. but as I do NOT "do business here," there is no way I could get a work permit. I am employed by a university in the US, and my work (involving Southeast

Asian languages) is such that I could do it from anywhere; for various reasons I choose to do it from Thailand.

I am paid US dollars into a US bank account, which I then spend every cent of in Thailand. I am a contributor to the Thai economy, and I take nothing from it. So where does this crackdown leave people like me?

preahko

Phew...answered your own question really with the "...my work" statment.

GET A PROPER VISA

Edited September 11, 2006 by CymruAmByth

[lung]

"2007 - thailand unforgettable"

...The Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) has plotted its 2007 annual plan, targetingto increase the number of wealthy foreign tourists arrivals as they could help the country to become the tourism leader of Asian region....

[trajan]

"Instead of doing border hopping totalling more than 90 days in a row"

And what happens it's not 90 days in a row ?

I mean : 2 weeks Thailand, 1 week outside, 1 week thailand etc.

As implied in the Forbes news article, the rules may be that after October 1st, you are only able to stay in Thailand for a maximum of 90 aggregate days out of every 180 days (IF you are using the easy "30-day visa exemption" or "15-day visa on arrival" routes for staying in Thailand)...(by the way, isnt that the same rule for maximum stay periods in the European Schengen area?).....

therefore, if you wish to stay longer than 90 days out of every 180 days, you will likely then be required to obtain a regular visa, (like a tourist visa, a marriage visa, a retirement visa, a non-immigrant "B" business visa, etc. )...

Edited September 11, 2006 by trajan

[bkkbaz]

Some specific questions, which I guess I won't get answers to until more information is released from the authorities:

1. When does the counting start? If someone already has 10 back-to-back 30-day visa waivers in his passport, what happens if he tries to re-enter after October 1? Does he get a limit of 3 more entries before his 90 day exile, or does he get refused entry immediately?

2. Will people just be able to buy 6-monthly quad-entry tourist visas twice a year instead, without any trouble?

3. Or how about a 6-month tourist visa (which actually gives ~9 months if used correctly), then 3x30 day visa waivers when it expires? Then a week at home at xmas to apply for the next tourist visa...

4. What's to stop people setting up companies that never actually conduct any business, in order to give themselves (as CEOs) work permits for non-imm B visas? This can be done for about $1,000, right?

Not trying to pick holes in the system, just wondering what the real rules are. And we all know that whatever the rules, they will be enforced on a very sporadic basis!

[atlastaname]

Some people are bad mouthing Thailand for this crackdown. They should look at immigration laws to western countries and see how Thailand, even with the crackdown, is much more liberal than US, UK and Europe to name a few places.

Some also might want to check out Malaysia's Second Home Program. Lots of good benefits to moving to Malaysia, but there are rules and a different set of problems than Thailand has.

Yes but Europe, the US and the UK are rich countries. They can be as picky as they want . Thailand should be what it always was and why people love it so much , because its sleezy or smart whatever you want it to be . Everyone can get in and spend their money in Thailand.

I hope that this leads to a noticeable fall in tourism and foreigners staying in LOS and they start to lose loads of FOREX , after which they will see the stupidity of what they have done and leave well alone.

Thailand should, IMO, let all and sundry in , even the so-called undesirables , because they all spend money , and thats all that matters for the prosperity of Thailand

[dalmatian]

Bendix, your reply serves no purpose other than confirming the condescending manner in which you wrote the first post. If your reply was meant to be helpful it was not and is still inaccurate.

I presently hold a retirement visa that was issued last December and at that time my wife was issued with a dependent visa with no fuss, no issues because I followed procedures and the given criteria. She is here as a guest of the Thai government like we all are and until now that was the case. The news given to me by Sunbelt is disturbing and I would hope that any posts regarding my circumstances would not involve disrespect in phrases such "simple init".

For your information if you wish to make people understand that you meant THAI wives then you should say it, we don't all conform to your view that all Farangs are married to Thais and thank you for telling me my money is mine, maybe that is obvious but we all have 800,000 to put in the bank and leave it there for years, don't we.

There is obviously a pattern of forum members sitting on different fences, but for me whether here as a rich or poor farang the issue is that this forum should be to assist people rather than take cheap shots!

I like this country and would wish to stay but if this Thai government wishes to tell my wife she can not stay with me and does not reach the criteria for any visa then I will be off as well. I hope Bendix that you are never put in the same position as me, I am sure you will then be looking for the level of help and assistance that I was originally searching for!

[cclub75]

"Instead of doing border hopping totalling more than 90 days in a row"

And what happens it's not 90 days in a row ?

I mean : 2 weeks Thailand, 1 week outside, 1 week thailand etc.

As implied in the Forbes news article, the rules may be that after October 1st, you are only able to stay in Thailand for a maximum of 90 aggregate days out of every 180 days (IF you are using the easy "30-day visa exemption" or "15-day visa on arrival" routes for staying in Thailand)...(by the way, isnt that the same rule for maximum stay periods in the European Schengen area?).....

therefore, if you wish to stay longer than 90 days out of every 180 days, you will likely then be required to obtain a regular visa, (like a 60-day (extendable) tourist visa or a 90-day (extendable) non-immigrant visa)...

Well, I thought it was not so clear in the paper of Forbes, and the message of Georges.

You say "90 aggregate days out every 180 days", Georges say "90 day in a row". That's a big difference, non ?

Regarding your last point, so to solve the problem it would be enough to cumulate the regular tourist visas, ad nauseum, in order to stay in the country on a perpetual basis ?

I seriously doubt it. Too easy.

The problem with the visa issue is that you're at the mercy of a civil servant, in a thai embassy. What he or she is going to say when someone will come to get a visa, with his passeport already full of previous "tourist visas"? Once again, it will go against the "spirit" of the law (and may be its letter) : people can not be tourist "full time".

As for your question regarding Shengen, sorry, I do not know.

[John K]

So... 65,000 people in 2004, and some of these won't be coming in on visa on arrivals either, so actually the real number is lower again. So therefore, by my own criteria, not a big deal.

Probably no major impact on Thailand's income from tourism, but can be a major impact on other areas, even from the Thai perpective.

Take the fact that most foreign teachers in Thailand are working illegally. I assume most of them are doing the monthly visa runs.

What will that do to English Teaching in Thailand?

Much higher wages!!!!

I assume you are joking? I was thinking more in the line of: fewer foreign teachers -> more Thais -> lower English teaching level (yes, even lower than now...)

I posted on this earlier in the thread, but basically economy 101 here simple supply and demand. If there are no tourists hanging around falling in love with Thailand and deciding to stay, the Thais simply will have to go shopping and pay more money. To convince someone to come to Thailand and work for 35000 ThB wont cut it. People here will simply know that and ask for more, and simply The Thais will have to pay it to meet their mandate of native speaking teachers. It will become a sellers market. 50000 ThB plus whatever else they can get out of the Thais including having the Thais pay all the fees for the visa and work permit. Then there is the issue of getting it all done in the 30 days. Bottom line post #1 is from Forbes and they only write about money. They could care less if the new law/rule inconveniences tourists. It is more or less a waning to investors. Next would be the Wall Street Journal or other similar publications around the world if the Thais follow through and do it. View Forbes as a yellow card , and the Wall Street Journal as a red card .

I suspect the Thais are watching the reaction in the business world along with this thread and others like it. If it goes like I read it October 1 may come and go without change. Someone told me today that every so often this pops up and he is convinced it will come and go like gas.

I guess the way to look at this is decide what is more important to the Thais, Money or cleaning up the whatever they call it. Answer that and you will have a good Idea where this will go.

Edited September 11, 2006 by John K

[mog]

The Land Of Smiles

Cambodia anybody??? Looks good to me...?

well, i gotta say, i've just been there and it didn't look good to me; slightly more expensive, much hassleing, much less farang friendly and a government that makes the thai government look like mother terresa - in case you're thinking of the infamous book, except for the girls outside the floating dancehall, the phnom penh of "off the rails in phnom penh" is no more - from the tourist's point of view the temples in and around siem reap and the national museum in phnom and "sharky's" make it worth the trip.

[Beachedwhale]

I just did a quick shuffle around the Internet looking at various country visa regulations (UK, NZ, Australia, India, China, etc) and in most instances there is no specific statements about restrictions on how many times a tourist visa can be applied for in 90 days - probably because there is not such a demand for them like Thailand. But in saying that most counties have a requirement for proper application for a Visa prior to getting into the country if wanting to do business or tourism for any extended time (except for special circumstances such as NZ going to Australia, Commonwealth countries getting into UK etc). I hear of many toursits going to all of these locations and hear of many business people going there as well, India is thriving, China is thriving ... why should Thailand be any different? Just like the countries mentioned above they have a view on the type of people that they want in their country, and the type of people that are good for their country and this is how they choose to manage it. My country -- New Zealand, has a points system, and to get enough points you need to have money, have good education, speak english etc ... they Thai way seems a lot less restrictive to me.

I know it will cause hardship for some but I cannot see how it is any different in principle to many other countries.

I first came here on 90 day tourist visas (when Thailand had that arangement for New Zealanders), then when it went to 30 days I did the runs and then got sick of it and used my own company that owns land to get me a work permit etc .. but now have a marriage Visa - Ok there is a different "cost" associated with that , but in essence I went to the trouble of getting my paperwork sorted out so that I can legally stay in this country. I would have to do the same if I went to the UK or the USA ... why is it the Thai Governments fault that it is now a necessity to do it here?

[austallia_1980]

my wife has family members that work in the government. taskin plans to continue his reform of thailand. nana will be closed down in 2007 along with the other areas of BKK. it will all be pushed towards Pat. With new airport, all the mongers will go directly to Pat, keeping it out of BKK.

[Mark Wolfe]

I am wondering what the motivation is for this. I live on Samui and just make my first run (three-month) and some of us were talking about how Thailand should just relax this stupid requirement and allow extentions at 1,900 baht a pop, instead of letting run operators snag all that cash.

Now here we have the opposite.

Where is the kickback to Thailand or its meticulously clean officials?

The fallout will be: The extended hanger-outters (lots of Brits here) will be royally fcked; the visa run operators will have to find other work; and those who fall in the cracks (like my friend whose bar is not doing well and doesn't have the cash in the bank for a marriage visa, even though he is -- with a one-year-old son) will have to think long and hard about how to keep the relationship going.

I really am baffled. The number of foreigner bums that are living here off the dole from back home only spend money here. Other than garish tattoos, they do not take jobs from locals or disturb society.

[beammeup]

"Instead of doing border hopping totalling more than 90 days in a row"

And what happens it's not 90 days in a row ?

I mean : 2 weeks Thailand, 1 week outside, 1 week thailand etc.

As implied in the Forbes news article, the rules may be that after October 1st, you are only able to stay in Thailand for a maximum of 90 aggregate days out of every 180 days (IF you are using the easy "30-day visa exemption" or "15-day visa on arrival" routes for staying in Thailand)...(by the way, isnt that the same rule for maximum stay periods in the European Schengen area?).....

therefore, if you wish to stay longer than 90 days out of every 180 days, you will likely then be required to obtain a regular visa, (like a tourist visa, a marriage visa, a retirement visa, a non-immigrant "B" business visa, etc. )...

Were did you get the "90 aggregate days out of 180"?

"From October, tourists from the designated countries can still enter Thailand without visas and stay for up to 30 days, but their entry stamps will be renewable twice at most for a maximum stay of 90 days.

Tourists who stayed for 90 days must leave the kingdom for at least 90 days before being permitted to re-enter Thailand, Suwat said".

The way I am reading it is that you get 3 X 30 in a year. I really hope you are right! I am here for 1 month then I leave for 1 month, so far this year I have been in the country for around 90days not consecutively. Am I OK or do I need to stay out for 90days?

Cheers

[HerbKohsamui]

I have no idea where all this info comes but I phoned Immigration Offices in Padangpasar, Khuan Don, and Bangkok and every officer said the same so far no changes,

But what happened to people the have a child together (foreigner's) and they are not married so not same name no Non - O Visa for her, what will happened to them and if this law will come how will it work for people they are here now already more then 90 day's must they leave now already for 90 day's ??????

Many are not old enough to get non - O visa but they are early retired and want to stay in Thailand and spend there money here (is it like this that they can have a TR - Visa and can stay with this longer than 90 days 4 entry TR- Visa could be extended up to one year or must they leave as well for 90 days?????)

Maybe someone can forward the Website of Thai Immigration Office (the official one) after calling and reading I was searching all over and havened found any news..

[Savage]

Why would the option of moving to Cambodia appeal more than moving back home to your respective country? If Thailand decides to kick me out then i'll move myself and my family back to UK.

Surely there are better options than moving to that hellish Cambodian cess pit!

[austallia_1980]

I am wondering what the motivation is for this. I live on Samui and just make my first run (three-month) and some of us were talking about how Thailand should just relax this stupid requirement and allow extentions at 1,900 baht a pop, instead of letting run operators snag all that cash.

Now here we have the opposite.

Where is the kickback to Thailand or its meticulously clean officials?

The fallout will be: The extended hanger-outters (lots of Brits here) will be royally fcked; the visa run operators will have to find other work; and those who fall in the cracks (like my friend whose bar is not doing well and doesn't have the cash in the bank for a marriage visa, even though he is -- with a one-year-old son) will have to think long and hard about how to keep the relationship going.

I really am baffled. The number of foreigner bums that are living here off the dole from back home only spend money here. Other than garish tattoos, they do not take jobs from locals or disturb society.

motivation is pretty obvious: you have the indian from UK who cut up his kids and came to live in thailand, and you have john karr child molester teaching tots english in bkk, and you have a million guys walking around with last nights date all over bkk.

taskin wants to get rid of the cheap backpacking work off the book farang, and to make thailand into the new singapore.

he will close down nana and those areas sometime next year and move it down to Pat.

After that, he will continue to raise the requirements to obtain a visa financially.

Go home POOR FARANG is the new tune in LOS.

[creation2474]

"Instead of doing border hopping totalling more than 90 days in a row"

And what happens it's not 90 days in a row ?

I mean : 2 weeks Thailand, 1 week outside, 1 week thailand etc.

As implied in the Forbes news article, the rules may be that after October 1st, you are only able to stay in Thailand for a maximum of 90 aggregate days out of every 180 days (IF you are using the easy "30-day visa exemption" or "15-day visa on arrival" routes for staying in Thailand)...(by the way, isnt that the same rule for maximum stay periods in the European Schengen area?).....

therefore, if you wish to stay longer than 90 days out of every 180 days, you will likely then be required to obtain a regular visa, (like a tourist visa, a marriage visa, a retirement visa, a non-immigrant "B" business visa, etc. )...

If we can just stay here 3 months on a tourist visa and thereafter make 3 border runes every month, then again tourist visa and 3 border runs - what's the problem then? There seem to be some uncertainty here about this.

[joka]

hello all....went to the immigration office in surat thani with my girlfriend, the official didn't know or didn't tell me about any changes coming up with the VOA. she did advise me to go to Penang and get a visa though.

also, looking at my last stamp from Malaysia from two weeks ago, i notice that i had been given a three month(90 days) stamp. all my other stamps have been for 30 days. has anyone else received the 90 stamp from Malaysia?

[Ed.Lee]

Thank you for your kind words Vanzam and Beammeup, my girl and I will stay strong no matter what befalls us, no doubt all those affected by this will get through it.

*Smile I actually bought a lotto ticket today, *Grin

Winning 400,000 bhat for the marriage visa, now that would make me laugh out loud.

Vanzam I will look into what you suggest, thank you for that.

And thanks for the mail Beammeup, it was appreciated.

Chin up and keep on keeping on I reckon,

Best wishes to all.

[Maestro]

I work elsewhere and I am in and out of LOS. I will stay an average of 60 days at a time. but if I am only allowed to be here 90 days a year that sux.

You are not staying in Thailand on three consecutive back-to-back visa-exempt 30-day entries. Therefore, I believe the new policy will not apply to you.

---------------

Maestro