Thai govt's manipulation of referendum a masterstroke

[Fat Haggis]

Very good points BillD, and the opposite can be said when some posters keep saying the "majority" support the junta, especially when as you quite rightly stated, out in the sticks life goes on no matter which snouts are in the trough.

It's called Apathy, and if someone offered you say a new car to allow them to get into a senior position, would you be tempted? most Farangs know a bribe when they see one, but to most Thais, they simply see it as a gift horse.

Basing their rights to vote based on our own feelings is downright rude, especially when we have no say as to what they do, or who they vote for.

Remember all the things your parents told you were bad and you were not to do them, but you did them anyway?

Sums up the Thais and politics. So many times I have read from people with zero say and zero vote state that Thais who don't vote the way the farangs would, don't deserve a vote, well yes they do, it's their country and if they want to vote for the man on the moon, it's their choice. suck it up, become a PR and a Thai passport holder with citizenship, and then, and only then can you whine about how your fellow countrymen and women vote!!

[Docno]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

Someone has Bangkokitis.

Yep, those improvements to the beaches and taxi driver behaviour are top priorities for the millions of poor in the rest of the country.

[h90]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

To add: If they rush things like the Surayud government, we'll have the same mess again in somewhere 3-5 years. Better let the government stay 2-5 more years and have the swamp dried up. A lot things will change when the Thaksin cronies finally recognize that he won't come back this time.

Yes the longer the Thaksin side is out of power the more their grip and resources dwindle. Also all their bad deeds surface and can be prosecuted without fear. A few extra years of junta would really destroy the corruption on the PTP side. ( i won't make a comment on the army side as I really don't know however the next government can and should investigate them)

Unfortunately this is the way how it goes here whatever side is in power will go after corruption on the previous side. Its not good but better as nothing. So its bad if one side stays too long in power as then their crimes go unpunished. And yes.. if army is corrupt they should be punished too.

Exactly and here the whining for Democracy only from people who weren't that much for Democracy when the Democrats were in power. Beside that Democracy is a tool to select leadership and decisions. If doesn't work for various reasons (vote buying, party buying, MP buying, decision buying, control of the media, destroying the checks and balance system), than it doesn't work and other measures must be taken. It doesn't help to appear democratic but people suffer and die and the country is rotting down.

[h90]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

Someone has Bangkokitis.

Yep, those improvements to the beaches and taxi driver behaviour are top priorities for the millions of poor in the rest of the country.

No but fighting corruption (and they also do it in the South.....) should be the top priority for the millions of poor. They are poor because because the money that could have been used to help them went in the pockets of the Shinawatra clan and their cronies.

If Thaksin would have improved the educational system instead of further reducing the quality, we would now already see results. Results that specific helps the poor (rich can pay their expensive schools and study outside Thailand).

If all the money the rice scam cost would have gone to the rice farmer they would be all rich now.

[dageurreotype]

I would say fight against corruption but so far at least you see progress here.. instead of going back. 26.000 corruption cases need I say more ?. At least the junta is making progress, they even have a police reform on the agenda. The previous government did not dare touching the rip off taxis because the majority of taxi drivers voted PTP. Now at least something is done.. still far from a lot.. but secret checks and fines never seen this happening before.

I don't expect it to be solved quickly.. as long as we are going forward not backwards like under the PTP.

First off, the junta have already stated that reforming the police will be left to the next government as it's too difficult. Wonder who that will be? Secondly, nothing has been done on Phuket regards the so called 'mafia' here regarding taxis. Hilarious if it weren't so pathetic. An entire bloody army with sweeping powers unable to get a call center running on the largest tourist island/biggest cash cow Thailand has. And, please, 'going forwards'?? General P hopes to take Thailand back 50 years and it looks as though his wish is being granted. Lots and lots of talk and taking out of opposition and bugger all else.

[h90]

I would say fight against corruption but so far at least you see progress here.. instead of going back. 26.000 corruption cases need I say more ?. At least the junta is making progress, they even have a police reform on the agenda. The previous government did not dare touching the rip off taxis because the majority of taxi drivers voted PTP. Now at least something is done.. still far from a lot.. but secret checks and fines never seen this happening before.

I don't expect it to be solved quickly.. as long as we are going forward not backwards like under the PTP.

First off, the junta have already stated that reforming the police will be left to the next government as it's too difficult. Wonder who that will be? Secondly, nothing has been done on Phuket regards the so called 'mafia' here regarding taxis. Hilarious if it weren't so pathetic. An entire bloody army with sweeping powers unable to get a call center running on the largest tourist island/biggest cash cow Thailand has. And, please, 'going forwards'?? General P hopes to take Thailand back 50 years and it looks as though his wish is being granted. Lots and lots of talk and taking out of opposition and bugger all else.

But they exchanged hundreds of corrupt policemen. And if they would make a police reform all you red supporters would be in rage how undemocratic that is and that the army want to control the police.....

Maybe they aren't successful in Phuket yet, and the phuket taxi mafia is surely not Thailands biggest problem. In many other places they have success. And what do you mean by "taking Thailand back 50 years". In what regards?

[dageurreotype]

I would say fight against corruption but so far at least you see progress here.. instead of going back. 26.000 corruption cases need I say more ?. At least the junta is making progress, they even have a police reform on the agenda. The previous government did not dare touching the rip off taxis because the majority of taxi drivers voted PTP. Now at least something is done.. still far from a lot.. but secret checks and fines never seen this happening before.

I don't expect it to be solved quickly.. as long as we are going forward not backwards like under the PTP.

First off, the junta have already stated that reforming the police will be left to the next government as it's too difficult. Wonder who that will be? Secondly, nothing has been done on Phuket regards the so called 'mafia' here regarding taxis. Hilarious if it weren't so pathetic. An entire bloody army with sweeping powers unable to get a call center running on the largest tourist island/biggest cash cow Thailand has. And, please, 'going forwards'?? General P hopes to take Thailand back 50 years and it looks as though his wish is being granted. Lots and lots of talk and taking out of opposition and bugger all else.

But they exchanged hundreds of corrupt policemen. And if they would make a police reform all you red supporters would be in rage how undemocratic that is and that the army want to control the police.....

Maybe they aren't successful in Phuket yet, and the phuket taxi mafia is surely not Thailands biggest problem. In many other places they have success. And what do you mean by "taking Thailand back 50 years". In what regards?

They exchanged hundreds of corrupt policemen. Who? Where's the list, does it include the policeman on Koh Tao who quickly identified the murderers of the British couple? And whilst you're at it, what was the outcome of the soldiers captured by the police for kidnapping a Russian man and forcing his wife to take them to an ATM, no wait, opposite the police station I could tell you but I'd get a 'holiday'. This wasn't an isolated case by the way, the BP had, and I stress 'had' been reporting on similar cases occurring in Bangkok.

Your remark 'not successful in Phuket yet (again), and taxi mafia 'not Thailand's biggest problem' goes straight to my point that this junta are unwilling/unable to control them. An entire bloody army! Just clear off the beach beds as it's the most visible way to pretend something's being done on Phuket. It isn't and it won't be.

The embarrassing 'happiness' fair portraying smiling peasants with their OTOP wares and General P's custom made 'throne' together with leaflets handed out to the kiddies as to how it was constructed and by whom should tell you where he intends to take Thailand and it ain't the modern, innovative, access to equal opportunity for all country it should be. Never mind, today's BP reports an unexpected surge in sales of luxury cars. Wonder who's buying them?

The posters on here supporting lack of transparency and freedom of speech to the civilians of this country should really ask themselves if they would be quite so supportive of the army storming in and overturning your home country democracies. And no, I am NOT a 'red supporter' but AM capable of critical thinking which does not include binary choices. Try it some time.

[h90]

I would say fight against corruption but so far at least you see progress here.. instead of going back. 26.000 corruption cases need I say more ?. At least the junta is making progress, they even have a police reform on the agenda. The previous government did not dare touching the rip off taxis because the majority of taxi drivers voted PTP. Now at least something is done.. still far from a lot.. but secret checks and fines never seen this happening before.

I don't expect it to be solved quickly.. as long as we are going forward not backwards like under the PTP.

First off, the junta have already stated that reforming the police will be left to the next government as it's too difficult. Wonder who that will be? Secondly, nothing has been done on Phuket regards the so called 'mafia' here regarding taxis. Hilarious if it weren't so pathetic. An entire bloody army with sweeping powers unable to get a call center running on the largest tourist island/biggest cash cow Thailand has. And, please, 'going forwards'?? General P hopes to take Thailand back 50 years and it looks as though his wish is being granted. Lots and lots of talk and taking out of opposition and bugger all else.

But they exchanged hundreds of corrupt policemen. And if they would make a police reform all you red supporters would be in rage how undemocratic that is and that the army want to control the police.....

Maybe they aren't successful in Phuket yet, and the phuket taxi mafia is surely not Thailands biggest problem. In many other places they have success. And what do you mean by "taking Thailand back 50 years". In what regards?

They exchanged hundreds of corrupt policemen. Who? Where's the list, does it include the policeman on Koh Tao who quickly identified the murderers of the British couple? And whilst you're at it, what was the outcome of the soldiers captured by the police for kidnapping a Russian man and forcing his wife to take them to an ATM, no wait, opposite the police station I could tell you but I'd get a 'holiday'. This wasn't an isolated case by the way, the BP had, and I stress 'had' been reporting on similar cases occurring in Bangkok.

Your remark 'not successful in Phuket yet (again), and taxi mafia 'not Thailand's biggest problem' goes straight to my point that this junta are unwilling/unable to control them. An entire bloody army! Just clear off the beach beds as it's the most visible way to pretend something's being done on Phuket. It isn't and it won't be.

The embarrassing 'happiness' fair portraying smiling peasants with their OTOP wares and General P's custom made 'throne' together with leaflets handed out to the kiddies as to how it was constructed and by whom should tell you where he intends to take Thailand and it ain't the modern, innovative, access to equal opportunity for all country it should be. Never mind, today's BP reports an unexpected surge in sales of luxury cars. Wonder who's buying them?

The posters on here supporting lack of transparency and freedom of speech to the civilians of this country should really ask themselves if they would be quite so supportive of the army storming in and overturning your home country democracies. And no, I am NOT a 'red supporter' but AM capable of critical thinking which does not include binary choices. Try it some time.

If you aren't able to read newspapers in even English, I can't help you....Uncountable reports of police transfers. If you expect that Prayut is cloning himself and plays the co-driver in every Phuket taxi, personally overrule the police and sentence people himself instead of waiting for the courts, than you expect too much. He isn't doing it the Stalin/Mao/Hitler way. It is a slow way, someone told at least 20 years to fix everything.

[kblaze]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

You don't think the Army is corrupt? You think bulldozing a couple resorts, warning taxis, and beaches..(wait what have they done with the beaches)? You think this is worth having freedom of speech in a stranglehold? Is it worth not being able to simply go out into the street and say publicly "I dont like the coup" without being hauled off for attitude adjustment? You have been in Thailand for a long time Robb and you are still this naive?

"For us foreigners nothing much has changed"

Ah so there it is..."as long as it doesn't affect me I dont care..."

[NeilSA1]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

You simply don't get it, do you ??

You think that cleaning a few beaches, fixing the taxi ranks (sort of fixed) and the all important lottery pricing are the way forward?

Those are low hanging fruits, easy to pick and parade for the sheep!!

For good measure throw in a purge against political opponents, and if nothing else works, charge them with LM !!

>> if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep<<

So your hatred for the PTP, all comes down to, that the pesky demonstrators inconvenienced Khun Robbie on his way to work??

Don't you think that the majority of Thai voters are "inconvenienced" by over and over again see their

constitutionally cast votes voided by the army and/or the judiciary??

Yes Thailand needs reforms, but not at gunpoint!!

Let the voters decide, who they want to steal from them...............

I guess you don't get it but that is clear.

You call it low hanging fruits.. i call it progress.. the previous government did not even go for low hanging fruit, instead all they did was to cheat the Thai taxpayer out of money.. and even more important get Thaksin back and and clear 26.000 !!! corruption cases with the amnesty. That is walking backwards.. compared to that low hanging fruits is a major step.

Yes the protesters did inconvenience me, but that was not really a problem. The deaths and violence were especially as the previous government seemed to use this to force the protesters to go home. (unleashing their red war dogs on them with one hand) while telling the protesters to go home as they were unsafe. No red-shirt was caught.. until the army stepped in. Makes the smart people think (not you your brain washed).

At least we agree that Thailand needs reforms.

Actually unlike you I don't think the voters should whitewash criminals, i feel that the law should always be upheld. Winning an election does not mean you don't have to uphold the law and play by the rules. Had the PTP known that there would not be a coup. I would have supported even the PTP if they had uphold the law (no black rice budgets and so on.. no 2 trillion loan to cover up the losses of a rice program), no crazy amnesty for one man, no convicted criminal leading a country by proxy. Just things that would not be ok in a real democracy.

The moment there is a real democracy id defend it against the army, fake democracies are on par with an junta and if I have to choose ill go for the one that is least bad. For instance one that brings a country forward.. even if only low hanging fruits.. and not lets a country walk backwards.. with dropping 26.000 corruption cases and bringing a corrupt criminal back.

What would you suggest we do if the army stay in power and the corruption still goes on unabated? as previous experience shows it will.

What can you do? What did you do with the previous government? Not much any of us can do really, other than monitor the situation.

[phoenixdoglover]

I see the argument has gotten pretty long-winded, so I'm going to keep it short.

The centerpiece of the current government is the concept of "reform".

I always assumed that "reform" meant putting in place changes so that major problems would be less likely to recur. That means changing the root causes, not just the symptoms.

The Junta today has claimed a string of reforms in "Phase 1" and "Phase 2", and they are promising much for "Phase 3" .

I am unimpressed by the reforms claimed so far.

Two examples from a recent news article:

1) The new Charter. How can this be claimed as a reform when every day there are strident arguments, even within the NRC for example, about whether the draft Charter should be approved or significantly amended? The Charter is not a reform until it is approved, adopted, and proven effective. At present, it is a dream.

2) Land Encroachment: Taking action against one development corporation, a dozen officials, and a group of peasants is NOT reform. It's fine to pursue people who break the law; this is what we expect. But reform is putting in place an organization and system to sustain that prosecution. What I see with the land encroachment and a few other similar issues, is a flashy one-time effort; a "crackdown". Not bad; but NOT reform.

Here's a good indication of how present-day reforms are illusory or temporary: Where is the NLA? Where are the laws that would institute changes? How can an order under Section 44 constitute a reform? How is it sustainable?

I think we're about to find out, and I don't think it has anything to do with an elected government or even the current NLA.

(OK, not so short )

Edited June 12, 2015 by phoenixdoglover

[Docno]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

Someone has Bangkokitis.

Yep, those improvements to the beaches and taxi driver behaviour are top priorities for the millions of poor in the rest of the country.

No but fighting corruption (and they also do it in the South.....) should be the top priority for the millions of poor. They are poor because because the money that could have been used to help them went in the pockets of the Shinawatra clan and their cronies.

If Thaksin would have improved the educational system instead of further reducing the quality, we would now already see results. Results that specific helps the poor (rich can pay their expensive schools and study outside Thailand).

If all the money the rice scam cost would have gone to the rice farmer they would be all rich now.

Yes and no.

"fighting corruption ... should be the top priority for the millions of poor." - Yes. But where is the evidence of corruption being tackled outside of the business/tourist centres of the country? We hear about taxis, beach beds, and jet skis. What is being done about corruption elsewhere?

"They are poor because because the money that could have been used to help them went in the pockets of the Shinawatra clan and their cronies." Really? My understanding is that there were millions of poor in the country long before Thaksin was a spark in his mom's eye. Maybe you know something I don't.

"If all the money the rice scam cost would have gone to the rice farmer they would be all rich now." You either need to work on your maths or your economics. For the sake of argument, let's go with your assumptions. The junta's official estimate of losses associated with the rice pledging programme is US$9.2 billion (and, of course, they would have some incentive to exaggerate this, but let's leave that aside). The numbers of Thais in the farming sector is 24 million (see http://ap.fftc.agnet.org/powerpoint/ppt-330.pdf), putting aside the fact that there are many poor in other sectors. Do the division and you get $383 per person. Not sure how that amount equates to being "rich".

[dageurreotype]

I see the argument has gotten pretty long-winded, so I'm going to keep it short.

The centerpiece of the current government is the concept of "reform".

I always assumed that "reform" meant putting in place changes so that major problems would be less likely to recur. That means changing the root causes, not just the symptoms.

The Junta today has claimed a string of reforms in "Phase 1" and "Phase 2", and they are promising much for "Phase 3" .

I am unimpressed by the reforms claimed so far.

Two examples from a recent news article:

1) The new Charter. How can this be claimed as a reform when every day there are strident arguments, even within the NRC for example, about whether the draft Charter should be approved or significantly amended? The Charter is not a reform until it is approved, adopted, and proven effective. At present, it is a dream.

2) Land Encroachment: Taking action against one development corporation, a dozen officials, and a group of peasants is NOT reform. It's fine to pursue people who break the law; this is what we expect. But reform is putting in place an organization and system to sustain that prosecution. What I see with the land encroachment and a few other similar issues, is a flashy one-time effort; a "crackdown". Not bad; but NOT reform.

Here's a good indication of how present-day reforms are illusory or temporary: Where is the NLA? Where are the laws that would institute changes? How can an order under Section 44 constitute a reform? How is it sustainable?

I think we're about to find out, and I don't think it has anything to do with an elected government or even the current NLA.

(OK, not so short )

You know, it just struck me that in all my dealings with many different Thais, their interpretation of certain words and their meanings are a world away from that in the West. Given all that you say, I'm coming to the conclusion the junta don't know what 'reform' means but know it's a good 'buzz word' to bandy about. There's no other way to explain this ignorance and inaction in changing anything of note here. Childish.

Edited June 13, 2015 by dageurreotype

[robblok]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

Someone has Bangkokitis.

Yep, those improvements to the beaches and taxi driver behaviour are top priorities for the millions of poor in the rest of the country.

No but the poor do like cheaper lotteries while I don't care much about it. The only poor that dont like cheaper lottery tickets are the sellers. So government is doing many things far more as the old one ever did. They only had one goal get Thaksin back and in trying so brought a coup upon themselves.

[robblok]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

You don't think the Army is corrupt? You think bulldozing a couple resorts, warning taxis, and beaches..(wait what have they done with the beaches)? You think this is worth having freedom of speech in a stranglehold? Is it worth not being able to simply go out into the street and say publicly "I dont like the coup" without being hauled off for attitude adjustment? You have been in Thailand for a long time Robb and you are still this naive?

"For us foreigners nothing much has changed"

Ah so there it is..."as long as it doesn't affect me I dont care..."

Tell me what the previous government did for the greater good.. they only tried to get Thaksin back. In short previous government did even less in way of upholding the law. So this is an improvement.

Sure I am selfish most of us are, I look at how my life is influenced and it has not influenced my life. For the majority of Thais it did not change a thing as many care about safety.. food and stuff like that.

I am quite happy they get those protesters from the street, it certainly has saved a lot of lives. Freedom is speech is one thing.. but if it tears up a country and brings out violence then its a luxury I can do without. If I can choose between no violence.. or violence and freedom of speech.. then freedom of speech is just a luxury I dont need.

That was how it was.. 2 sides gearing up for violence with the reds killing kids and so on (4 kids killed by reds might not been their main target but driving pickups into a market and shooting around and throwing grenades is terrorism). I can do without that.

[kblaze]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

You don't think the Army is corrupt? You think bulldozing a couple resorts, warning taxis, and beaches..(wait what have they done with the beaches)? You think this is worth having freedom of speech in a stranglehold? Is it worth not being able to simply go out into the street and say publicly "I dont like the coup" without being hauled off for attitude adjustment? You have been in Thailand for a long time Robb and you are still this naive?

"For us foreigners nothing much has changed"

Ah so there it is..."as long as it doesn't affect me I dont care..."

Tell me what the previous government did for the greater good.. they only tried to get Thaksin back. In short previous government did even less in way of upholding the law. So this is an improvement.

Sure I am selfish most of us are, I look at how my life is influenced and it has not influenced my life. For the majority of Thais it did not change a thing as many care about safety.. food and stuff like that.

I am quite happy they get those protesters from the street, it certainly has saved a lot of lives. Freedom is speech is one thing.. but if it tears up a country and brings out violence then its a luxury I can do without. If I can choose between no violence.. or violence and freedom of speech.. then freedom of speech is just a luxury I dont need.

That was how it was.. 2 sides gearing up for violence with the reds killing kids and so on (4 kids killed by reds might not been their main target but driving pickups into a market and shooting around and throwing grenades is terrorism). I can do without that.

Its not about comparing What Army Did vs. What Thaksin Did. They are both shitty at running governments. Lol saving lives? The violence in 2010 was 100x worse than 2014, you should know you were here. So thats not an excuse for the coup.

Bottom line; Would you prefer to live in a country where two sides are at each others throats but can still express their viewpoints? Or a country where no one is fighting in the open because dissent is illegal?

Me, I prefer the former.

Edited June 15, 2015 by kblaze

[Docno]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

Someone has Bangkokitis.

Yep, those improvements to the beaches and taxi driver behaviour are top priorities for the millions of poor in the rest of the country.

No but the poor do like cheaper lotteries while I don't care much about it. The only poor that dont like cheaper lottery tickets are the sellers. So government is doing many things far more as the old one ever did. They only had one goal get Thaksin back and in trying so brought a coup upon themselves.

You're seriously arguing that cheaper lottery tickets are a boon for the poor?? And people here criticise the Shins for their 'bread and circuses' approach!

[Bernard Flint]

I would say fight against corruption but so far at least you see progress here.. instead of going back. 26.000 corruption cases need I say more ?. At least the junta is making progress, they even have a police reform on the agenda. The previous government did not dare touching the rip off taxis because the majority of taxi drivers voted PTP. Now at least something is done.. still far from a lot.. but secret checks and fines never seen this happening before.

I don't expect it to be solved quickly.. as long as we are going forward not backwards like under the PTP.

First off, the junta have already stated that reforming the police will be left to the next government as it's too difficult. Wonder who that will be? Secondly, nothing has been done on Phuket regards the so called 'mafia' here regarding taxis. Hilarious if it weren't so pathetic. An entire bloody army with sweeping powers unable to get a call center running on the largest tourist island/biggest cash cow Thailand has. And, please, 'going forwards'?? General P hopes to take Thailand back 50 years and it looks as though his wish is being granted. Lots and lots of talk and taking out of opposition and bugger all else.

But they exchanged hundreds of corrupt policemen. And if they would make a police reform all you red supporters would be in rage how undemocratic that is and that the army want to control the police.....

Maybe they aren't successful in Phuket yet, and the phuket taxi mafia is surely not Thailands biggest problem. In many other places they have success. And what do you mean by "taking Thailand back 50 years". In what regards?

They exchanged hundreds of corrupt policemen. Who? Where's the list, does it include the policeman on Koh Tao who quickly identified the murderers of the British couple? And whilst you're at it, what was the outcome of the soldiers captured by the police for kidnapping a Russian man and forcing his wife to take them to an ATM, no wait, opposite the police station I could tell you but I'd get a 'holiday'. This wasn't an isolated case by the way, the BP had, and I stress 'had' been reporting on similar cases occurring in Bangkok.

Your remark 'not successful in Phuket yet (again), and taxi mafia 'not Thailand's biggest problem' goes straight to my point that this junta are unwilling/unable to control them. An entire bloody army! Just clear off the beach beds as it's the most visible way to pretend something's being done on Phuket. It isn't and it won't be.

The embarrassing 'happiness' fair portraying smiling peasants with their OTOP wares and General P's custom made 'throne' together with leaflets handed out to the kiddies as to how it was constructed and by whom should tell you where he intends to take Thailand and it ain't the modern, innovative, access to equal opportunity for all country it should be. Never mind, today's BP reports an unexpected surge in sales of luxury cars. Wonder who's buying them?

The posters on here supporting lack of transparency and freedom of speech to the civilians of this country should really ask themselves if they would be quite so supportive of the army storming in and overturning your home country democracies. And no, I am NOT a 'red supporter' but AM capable of critical thinking which does not include binary choices. Try it some time.

TOP TOP POST, AND CORRECT

[Anon999]

I can't say I am against the junta staying on longer. I finally see them going after stuff like corruption (at least more as the previous government). Doing something about encroachment, the taxi's, the beaches and many other things. No violence on the street no judges being threatened. Finally the law can get a bit of hold in Thailand. Those connected before are slowly but surely being checked for corruption and action taken. I have never before seen so many high level cases going to court. Totally different then when PTP was in power.

For us foreigners nothing much has changed, (except that the 90 days is now doable on-line, under Thaksins government was the 90 days checks were reinstated so this is clearly better). But this not about foreigners.. we play a small role.. if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep.

Quite smart of them to do it this way and the longer the reds are deprived of funds (no longer in power no longer able to rape the Thai treasury) the less likely it is that they come back unless someone is going to risk a whole lot of money.

Also this whole process should not be rushed.. a good charter should emerge.. not a hastily assembled one.

All this does not mean I agree with all the junta does.. certainly not but I see it as the least bad solution.

You simply don't get it, do you ??

You think that cleaning a few beaches, fixing the taxi ranks (sort of fixed) and the all important lottery pricing are the way forward?

Those are low hanging fruits, easy to pick and parade for the sheep!!

For good measure throw in a purge against political opponents, and if nothing else works, charge them with LM !!

>> if any so i go for stability if the red wants to riot let them riot outside of BKK. Wonder if the red members like it if they cause trouble at their doorstep<<

So your hatred for the PTP, all comes down to, that the pesky demonstrators inconvenienced Khun Robbie on his way to work??

Don't you think that the majority of Thai voters are "inconvenienced" by over and over again see their

constitutionally cast votes voided by the army and/or the judiciary??

Yes Thailand needs reforms, but not at gunpoint!!

Let the voters decide, who they want to steal from them...............

I guess you don't get it but that is clear.

You call it low hanging fruits.. i call it progress.. the previous government did not even go for low hanging fruit, instead all they did was to cheat the Thai taxpayer out of money.. and even more important get Thaksin back and and clear 26.000 !!! corruption cases with the amnesty. That is walking backwards.. compared to that low hanging fruits is a major step.

Yes the protesters did inconvenience me, but that was not really a problem. The deaths and violence were especially as the previous government seemed to use this to force the protesters to go home. (unleashing their red war dogs on them with one hand) while telling the protesters to go home as they were unsafe. No red-shirt was caught.. until the army stepped in. Makes the smart people think (not you your brain washed).

At least we agree that Thailand needs reforms.

Actually unlike you I don't think the voters should whitewash criminals, i feel that the law should always be upheld. Winning an election does not mean you don't have to uphold the law and play by the rules. Had the PTP known that there would not be a coup. I would have supported even the PTP if they had uphold the law (no black rice budgets and so on.. no 2 trillion loan to cover up the losses of a rice program), no crazy amnesty for one man, no convicted criminal leading a country by proxy. Just things that would not be ok in a real democracy.

The moment there is a real democracy id defend it against the army, fake democracies are on par with an junta and if I have to choose ill go for the one that is least bad. For instance one that brings a country forward.. even if only low hanging fruits.. and not lets a country walk backwards.. with dropping 26.000 corruption cases and bringing a corrupt criminal back.

What would you suggest we do if the army stay in power and the corruption still goes on unabated? as previous experience shows it will.

Corruption is being tackled at many levels, that is a fact. However, to bring the thieves to justice takes time as gathering the evidence and presenting a case for prosecution is not simple. We should see the fruits of the endeavours by the anti-corruption offices starting to come to fruition in the next year and thereafter.

[Reigntax]

The developed world has been moving forward for 800 years now with basically the same constitution. Thailand has been moving backwards and forwards for the last 70 with no ultimate progress.

As Albert stated stupidly is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result but we could add to that by saying those who support doing the same over and over are not only stupid but also ignorant.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Reigntax