AA 12 steps: Finding God

[corkman]

All,

So I have been going along to AA. Something I have a bit of trouble with is the whole spirituality thing. Good news is that deep down I do believe in God. I have my doubts, but in times of need I often find myself praying. So I've got two questions:

1. I haven't been to church for a long time, but I would like to give it a go to start attending again. I live on Sukhumvit. I am Catholic. Where and when (if any) could I find an expat friendly mass in English language?

2. I get it that the 12 steps program requires a lot of soul searching. I sort of feel that before I can truly "find God" I first need to find myself. For that I feel like I need a bit of alone time. Disconnect from the world - no smart phone, no internet, no TV, no Facebook, no work or books or other distractions. Just be alone with myself to contemplate my life and reflect. I don't think I'm ready for a full on "meditation" retreat - in fact I don't think that is for me. But it has been a long time since I relaxed and took pause to reflect on life. Can anyone relate to this, and if so what would recommend? I'm thinking a remote resort somewhere, far from the madding crowd, leisurely nature walks alone etc. etc. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Many thanks in advance.

[JOC]

Mate, you are making it way too complicated!!

To run away to a deserted island is not the solution.........

The real challenge is to live sober in your every day environment. Not easy, because many times you will feel isolated with all your drinking-buddies gone.

But slowly, slowly you will make new not-drinking friends, and more importantly you will start to respect yourself, which IMO is the most important reward, you will get by living sober.

As for the God part: If you are not at peace with yourself, no superpower will be able to help you.

It is all within you.

Not easy, but the bumpy road to sobriety is well worth travelling...........

Good luck

9 good years now!!

[Deli]

Being alone and isolated isn't necessarily the best, it all depends on the individual. What ever you do, it has to be the best for you. There's no universal silver bullet. Get out of the way what makes you drinking, you can do this also among many other people, if this is good for you. Be selfish and think of your personal wellbeing without booze.

You don't need to become a believer, if you never have been really into it. For some it might help, others don't need it.

[impulse]

Don't sweat it. Fake it until you make it. Worked for me.

I just keep asking myself "What would an honest, spiritual, loving person do in this situation?". If I keep doing that, the God part seems to come naturally.

The other one I live by is, "I can't think my way into correct actions, I have to act my way into correct thinking." The best thing for me is to find someone that could use my help, and offer it up. Works just about every time.

[Docno]

I'm no expert on this, but I would only say that I wouldn't see books as 'distractions'. One or more carefully chosen books could actually provide some support and inspiration for getting your mind in the right place. I haven't experienced what you are going through, but perhaps others here have come across a book that changed how they see things. And I can also see value in spending time with non-drinkers so that you can build socialising habits not focused on the drinking of alcohol. But, as I've said, not an expert.... Best of luck to you.

[ezzra]

I took the resolution not to drink any more, but not to drink any less either...

[Docno]

This is a recent article in the Atlantic critical of AA. You don't have to buy into its premise--it's just one opinion--but it does cover some additional options / alternatives to AA.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/03/the-irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/

[dotpoom]

First off Corkman (a handicap straight away, just kidding 555) I want to wish you a long and happy sober life....the best is yet to come and it gets better and better every day from then on.

To answer your first question (I forget if you mentioned what Sukhumvit) There is a Catholic church in Pattaya on Sukhumvit Rd, near Pattaya Klang on the same side, St. Nicholes, the English mass is at 8 AM or 8.30. not sure, just Google it. It is recommended in the AA Big Book that one should go back to the religious practices of worship that a person was brought up with ...that is not to say that the AA programme has anything to do with religion...it doesn't. I did this myself but unfortunately it didn't work out personally for me...too much reading from books and standing up then sitting down etc....I felt God was saying ..."for My sake, will you please throw away the books and sit still and just talk to me from your hearts....not through words that other people wrote for you". I guess I learned that from all the AA meetings that I have been fortunate enough to have attended....where we talk from the heart and not from the head.

On your next point (and here I may have a different point of view from JOC but thank God we all perceive life differently). When you talked about peace and quite I did not detect that you meant you wanted to "run away" but simply felt some quite might make it easier to reflect on life and your purpose in it....I have to agree that I need to be alone to contemplate, and would you believe, I have had my best awakenings, realizations and bouts of enlightenment (some only lasted a few seconds) when I simply went for a walk on my own. I would empty my mind of all the things going on in my life at the present time, the materialistic things, the money things the resentments etc., and the relationship I was presently in....and just let my mind do it's own wandering. I would take a real note of the things about me,,,(living in the present moment) ,the flowers on the side of the road, the birds singing, the actions of the people around me (BUT NOT IN A JUDGING WAY) like me, they were trying to find happiness as best they could with what they got. This walk can take place anywhere, I had my best one ever walking up Theprasit Rd, now there's one for ye...one of the busiest roads around here....I think what happens when you do this is.....if you can block out the events going on in your life at that time....you are actually opening up a channel for your HP to start communicating with you....you have removed the clutter that was blocking Him up to then.

Again Corkman...God Bless you on the wonderful and exciting life that lies ahead of you.

Edited June 15, 2015 by dotpoom

[Jessi]

There is a book called "Living Sober" you should be able to buy it or order it at your AA meeting.

This book has helped me many times when I have come to a cross road in sobriety, the answer is in there somewhere.

In my early days of sobriety I would SEARCH for what ever!!!

Then one day my old sponsor told me if I keep searching I might just find a DRINK.

His advice to me was to just let the program of AA to wash over me like the water coming in on the beach. This for me was the best advice any one could give me.

The one thing that I strive for is MY "Peace of mind"

I hope this is of help to you and you remain sober for the rest of your life, a life full of freedom from Alcohol.

[ausbeat999]

Yes quite right IMPULSE , to help others is the best thing, offer your help. I can remember that I always tried to do a good deed for today, like walking an elderly person across the street or opening doors for people weather it be male or female and to be polite at all times, I am not a drinker and I am so fortunate for this. but being alone is not the best, and god,well if you have the internet there are plenty of things on youtube to watch and articles to read. For my last 3 years I have been extensively searching for the origins of man it became a bit of a quest. and it grew might heart closer to god than ever. but my question is who is god, look up like the book of enoch ,the story of babel , Sumarian,Gilgamesh,and find out what its all about and also the similarities between buddha and christianity, it will surprise you, and keep you occupied.

good luck

[quandow]

I took the resolution not to drink any more, but not to drink any less either...

That's a f4cked up response. This OP's asking a desperate question from the heart, glib is shitty.

[quandow]

Corkman, there are four triggers that CAN make you thinking of taking a drink, acronym HALT. Hungry, angry, lonely, tired. You didn't say what city you live in, Sukhumvit is a big road, but there are plenty of groups to get involved in. SOME alone time is always a good thing for introspection, but volunteer work can do wonders for getting your mind off your problems. If you are in Pattaya, the Father Ray Foundation always has something for you to dig in and lend a hand. Best of luck to you!

[maybefitz]

Looking for God - one instinctively refers to the teachings of our youth, namely - a Christian God. I have spent 3/4 of my adult life, as an AA member, and a secular Humanist. It didn't take me long to discount the myths, fables, superstitions and downright lies of Christianity. I offer you 3 alternative interpretations of "God" - or as AA's prefer to say, Higher Power.

1. Take the word "God" and just put an extra 'o' in it. This creates a huge canvas of spiritual understanding.

2. "Group of Drunks". The accumulated experience, wisdom and knowledge of AA members is certainly a power greater than myself.Most of what I now believe in came from other AA members. Listen.

3. "Good Orderly Direction". Just doing the next right thing, one pace at a time, will bring long term benefits. Your own experience doing things right is actually a spiritual uplifting.

You don't have to believe in the 'puppet master in the sky' concept of God, who is going to interact in your life if you ask nicely (pray). Look at some of the basic Buddhist teaching for spirituality within yourself, and relate behaviour to the Good Orderly Direction mode. If you can manage some of this without picking up the first drink - something is working. Good Luck.

[kkup]

The Power of Now is a good book to read for living in the moment. Best of luck to you, I've done the isolation thing before, it's ok for a short time if you are changing some pretty big bad habits. But have a plan moving forward to try and mingle with new crowds that don't drink, buy a gym membership, tennis racket, golf clubs, getting active helps allot too. Getting a sponsor to have someone to talk to when you need it helps as well (Sponsors don't have to be in Thailand, can chat to anyone via skype), or there are groups online, alternatively you can get cheap phone counselling in the initial stages.

Stay strong, all the best..

[fang37]

Many suggestions in this thread. But, which path will you pursue?

Firstly, YOU ARE NOT GOD!

Secondly, it is quite acceptable to change your concept both now & in the future.

I chatted with fellow members, clergy, read literature until I had a little comfortability.

The AA group can be your Higher Power in the first instance.

Have a plan.

Attend regular meetings.

Listen with an open mind.

In time, comfortability will come.

It took me 10 years coming to terms with a HP.

I have read & attended meetings with Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Hari Khrisna etc. WHY NOT?

Good luck; work hard; go to meetings & don't pick up that 1st drink. IT WILL GET BETTER.

[Linzz]

There are 3 or 4 Catholic churches in Bangkok: The Holy Redeemer I visited on my first visit to Thailand. I'm not catholic but I found it moving to see a graphic Crucifix that depicted the Christian concept of God after seeing by contrast so many huge golden Buddhas sitting so self satisfied! But hey that's just me and how I saw it.

Catholic Mission of Bangkokplus.google.com
2 Google reviews

Bang Rak
จังหวัด กรุงเทพมหานคร Thailand

Holy Redeemer Churchwww.catholic.or.th

4.5

22 Google reviews

124/19 ซอย ร่วมฤดี 5
เพลินจิต Lumphini, Pathum Wan, Krung Thep Maha Nakhon, Thailand
+66 2 256 6422

Holy Rosary Churchrosary.catholic.or.th
Google+ page

1318, Soi Wanit 2, Yotha Road, Talat Noi, Khet Samphanthawong, Bangkok, 10100
Thailand
+66 2 236 27

• Our Lady Fatima Catholic church - Bangkok, Thailand ...

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  Our Lady Fatima Catholic church, Bangkok, Thailand. 118 likes · 26 talking about this · 3547 were here. Local Business.

Also Anglican

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  Christ Church Bangkok ... Welcome to Christ Church. Whether ... Christ Church is a parish in the Anglican Church in Thailand and we also have a Thai-language ...

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  11, Convent Road, Silom, Khet Bang Rak, Bangkok, 10500, 10500, Thailand
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  ‎Find or Contact Us - ‎Service Times - ‎About Us

• Can you recommend an English speaking church in Bangkok?

  www.dahlfred.com/.../280-can-you-recommend-an-english-speaking-ch...

  Nov 18, 2009 - Christ Church Bangkok (http://www.christchurchbangkok.org) is anAnglican church in downtown Bangkok, in a large building that looks like it ...

[oldwhitecap]

some good posts here

my advice similar to fang 7

step 1 and step 2 you may be on one a good place to start. step two covers your question . the steps are ment to be taken with a sponsor that would help you.

perhaps you should do them in order , read the book ,go to meetings, get a sponsor and complete the 12 steps.

this is a method to recover from alcoholism that has been proven to work for millions of people.

it is not the only way, it is not easy , but it worked for me and i recommend it.

all the best

[Kurt Kubik]

I have been in Aa for 24 years, now i live in Phuket and go to meeting there... Just go to meeting, dont drink between meetings...One day at the time.. take it easy..

AA 12 step program is a simple program for complicaded people...It says a power greater than yourself... Call it what you want.. if God, just know you are not God.

If a church helps you, go to a church... there are no dues or fees for Aa membership...Get some AA phone numbers..,, And remember 1 day at the time..

best wish and good luck.... And there is a reason it starts with step one...

[Kurt Kubik]

search for AA in Thailand on google...

[saroq]

http://www.smartrecovery.org/

[Kurt Kubik]

Can only say.. Nobody is too stupid to Join AA, but many are too smart ;o)

[gchurch259]

Holy Redemer Church

Sukhumvit, Soi Rruam Rudee

Bangkok

662 2566157

The street is between Wireless Road and the Railroad Tracks, before Nana Area Soi2.

[Mangkhut]

The first period of time after I stopped drinking I had a whole lot of thoughts coming to my head. Way to many and difficult to deal with. Actually the approx first two years were like that. It was not easy to deal with. Even to this day - 5,5 years after the last drink I have periods of "internal brainstorm"

I also felt like wanting to retreat to somewhere remote and live as isolated and alone as possible. But luckily I didnt do that. I drowned myself in work and worked almost twice as much as an average emplyee although that probably wasnt the best solution either.

As others said above in this thread - its about getting this "not drinking concept" into your daily life and handle this on a daily basis that is most important. Not that you shouldnt go to church or to AA or whatever that you can find that can help you, give you support and understanding. But most days are weekdays and life gas to go on.

The most problematic can be to find something useful to do. All the time you spent drinking, sleeping off drunkeness, dealing with hangover or "repairing" - is now avsilable time. So its worth doing some thoughts about that and maybe take up an old or a new hobby or whatever feels right. Cherity work, physical exercise or whatever.

The most important step is step 1. If you have admitted and understood step 1 - you are a long way already.

Think about all the good and sober times that lies ahead - wow man - thats something!

[Langsuan Man]

There is a reason that AA does not use the term "God" but use the term "a higher power" which appeals to those who don't want to buy into the omnipresent being idea or concept

The whole I idea is to surrender yourself to something, no matter what you want to call it, that is greater than you, since if you are an alcoholic, it is pretty obvious that your stinking thinking isn't working

Don't get hung up on terminology just go to meetings and listen and share and eventually it will come to you, one day at a time

[Smokin Joe]

For those that don't believe in the afterlife:

I set my microwave to 6:66 and my popcorn burned like hell. Coincidence? I don't think so.

[Acharn]

So I have been going along to AA. Something I have a bit of trouble with is the whole spirituality thing.

Welcome to the club. I've been in AA for 39 years now and have never gotten the "god" thing. As long as you really want to quit drinking and keep working on it it'll be OK.

If you're looking for a church I'm surprised that nobody in your AA group knows of one. Do you know Wittayu Road, where the U.S. embassy is? Coming from Sukhumvit Road past the embassy to the next red light, that's Soi Ruamrudee on your left. Turn left. Straight ahead you will see a tall one-story white building. This is Wat Maha Tai. It's a Roman Catholic church. To one side, across a small soi, is the building where the priests live. On the first floor (ground floor) are offices, a reception desk, and a conference room where AA meetings are held, or used to be. I've lived up country for several years now and don't know if the group still meets there or not. I think the priests say mass in English sometimes, but I'm not Catholic so never really paid attention.

As for the "god" thing, I believe that it is not possible to decide through reason whether there is a god or not. Didn't matter in my recovery. In one of the essays in the collection, The Twelve and Twelve, Bill's essays on the twelve steps and the twelve traditions, he said at one point (I think it was the essay on the Third Step) to just drop out of the debating society. Give it a try. Don't reject it out of hand. See if it works. I was told often in the early days that if I wasn't satisfied they'd give me a complete refund of my misery. I tried it. It worked for me. I even tried praying regularly. Why not? It doesn't cost me anything except a little time. I was skeptical because some of it can sound very cult-like if you treat it too seriously. I found my life was a lot better without alcohol. I also found that when I listened to the people in the rooms talking about their problems I learned how to solve some of my own problems. I found a better attitude than I had grown up with. My life got better again.

If somebody tells you you're doing it wrong, listen politely, remember what he said, and talk it over with your friends. I never succeeded in completing a Fourth Step of any of the Steps that depend on it. I used to try doing a Tenth Step, reviewing my day, whenever I remembered. I did manage to maintain a habit of thanking a Higher Power, which may or may not be a real Thing, for good things that happened to be every day.

Some of us are sicker trhan others. Keep coming back.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Acharn

[gerryBScot]

Hey Corkman glad you're still going to meetings. I'm also a recovering Catholic but I would honestly advise some caution about the church here in Thailand. The Bot Yai Holy Redeemer church on Ruam Rudee is one of the great Catholic catholic experiences - there are people there from every part of the world, Thais, Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, Europeans, Africans, Americans and it really has a truly international feel - or rather had. It is run by Redemptorist priests and the priests used to embody that internationalism- there were a couple of African priests there too who have sadly moved on and I loved their approach to their faith and their interpretation of it. I could have listened to these guys all day. But now it seems as if it is mainly Thai priests and priests from neighbouring countries and I am sorry to say they just don't hit my buttons in quite the same way. Interestingly AA used to hold its meetings in the church hall there, until the last couple of years in fact and historically its origins in BKK and other parts of S E Asia lie the Philippines are emigre missionary priests who brought this with them too. I don't know what happened but AA is no longer there and I rather fancy it might be because of this seemingly more conservative approach among the clergy. So be careful as you might be disappointed with what you find.

When I got sober at the beginning in London and found myself considering the higher power issue, I'd heard people in the rooms say things like: if you have a legal problem go see a lawyer, a medical problem go see a doctor, and I applied the same approach to the higher power issue. Over a period of a couple of months I traipsed around various churches and sat in and listened to what they were saying and tried to relate it to where I was at in my own recovery. Funnily enough the most helpful stuff was coming from priests in the church nearest my home. I arranged to go and see one of them for a 'chat' and it was one of the most productive chats I had. I levelled with this guy and he welcomed me back with open arms and was actually a great source of personal support over the next couple of years - and it was very useful to have support like this from a non-AA source.

You might not be so fortunate out here but whatever good luck and glad you are exploring your options.

[elynhk]

All,

So I have been going along to AA. Something I have a bit of trouble with is the whole spirituality thing. Good news is that deep down I do believe in God. I have my doubts, but in times of need I often find myself praying. So I've got two questions:

1. I haven't been to church for a long time, but I would like to give it a go to start attending again. I live on Sukhumvit. I am Catholic. Where and when (if any) could I find an expat friendly mass in English language?

2. I get it that the 12 steps program requires a lot of soul searching. I sort of feel that before I can truly "find God" I first need to find myself. For that I feel like I need a bit of alone time. Disconnect from the world - no smart phone, no internet, no TV, no Facebook, no work or books or other distractions. Just be alone with myself to contemplate my life and reflect. I don't think I'm ready for a full on "meditation" retreat - in fact I don't think that is for me. But it has been a long time since I relaxed and took pause to reflect on life. Can anyone relate to this, and if so what would recommend? I'm thinking a remote resort somewhere, far from the madding crowd, leisurely nature walks alone etc. etc. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Many thanks in advance.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Nice day to you!

Which sukhumvit are you? Sukhumvit in Bkk or in sukhumvit Pattaya?

Only if you meant Sukhumvit Pattaya:...There is a church called Encounter Church in Pattaya.It is a non-denominational church,Located in 15/floor Royal Twins Palace hotel 2nd Road Pattaya.Its a big and still growing and continually growing numbers of people.

People are very friendly and majority people speaks english,the service is always in english.There is only 1 service offer every sunday @ 10:00- 11;30 am. It is an international church, you'll find people there from different nations.

English,australian,American,Canadians,Thais,Filipinos,Koreans,Japanese,etc.

Going to church doesn't mean that everybody in there we can trust. That could meant that almost everybody in there needing or seeking some answers.But in this church try to mingle with people specially after church try and go to the front and say hello and speak just like normal.You can talk about work,home,work home and all the normal stuffs in life. And make friends and just stay normal.

God bless

[elynhk]

Just an additional inspirational thought. short video

[Neeranam]

Looking for God - one instinctively refers to the teachings of our youth, namely - a Christian God. I have spent 3/4 of my adult life, as an AA member, and a secular Humanist. It didn't take me long to discount the myths, fables, superstitions and downright lies of Christianity. I offer you 3 alternative interpretations of "God" - or as AA's prefer to say, Higher Power.

1. Take the word "God" and just put an extra 'o' in it. This creates a huge canvas of spiritual understanding.

2. "Group of Drunks". The accumulated experience, wisdom and knowledge of AA members is certainly a power greater than myself.Most of what I now believe in came from other AA members. Listen.

3. "Good Orderly Direction". Just doing the next right thing, one pace at a time, will bring long term benefits. Your own experience doing things right is actually a spiritual uplifting.

You don't have to believe in the 'puppet master in the sky' concept of God, who is going to interact in your life if you ask nicely (pray). Look at some of the basic Buddhist teaching for spirituality within yourself, and relate behaviour to the Good Orderly Direction mode. If you can manage some of this without picking up the first drink - something is working. Good Luck.

He says he believes in God - why the need to try to convert him?

Someone mentioned "The Power of Now" - great book but it took me 10 years sober to understand it. i love a quote from it -

The word God has become empty of meaning through thousands of years of misuse. I use it sometimes, but I do so sparingly. By misuse, I mean that people who have never even glimpsed the realm of the sacred, the infinite vastness behind that word, use it with great conviction, as if they knew what they are talking about. Or they argue against it, as if they knew what it is that they are denying. This misuse gives rise to absurd beliefs, assertions, and egoic delusions, such as "My or our God is the only true God, and your God is false," or Nietzsche's famous statement "God is dead."