Swift tranfer warning

[jacky54]

I don't think I can name the Bank in Bkk but it has orange and black in the logo. I recently transferred some money from nationwide UK to this bank in Bkk. NW deducted as usual the 20 pounds transfer fee. One month later the bank here debited me 25 pounds claiming that was the transfer fee. The fee was 25 once but NW reduced it long ago.

Nationwide say they debited for the fee and the orange bank fee must have been something else, orange bank say no they took the transfer fee as it was owed to them. So I paid twice for the transfer and it cost 46.86 pounds in all. The orange bank cannot explain why the charge was 25 pounds when the fee is actually 20, or how they managed to make this up to 26.86. Obviously no chance of a logical explanation from the orange bank. I have written to them and will close the account, not the first problem with them either. Their slogan is the doing Bank, more like the doing you Bank!

[Naam]

how they managed to make this up to 26.86

typical charge of a correspondence bank.

[jacky54]

what is a correspondence Bank? never heard of the term

[Jiu-Jitsu]

what is a correspondence Bank? never heard of the term

Correspondent Bank

[steven100]

corresponding bank will take a fee ...... nothing is free !!!! I send thousands every couple of weeks ... live with it or don't send ...

[Jiu-Jitsu]

corresponding bank will take a fee ...... nothing is free !!!! I send thousands every couple of weeks ... live with it or don't send ...

Not every institution would need a Correspondent Bank. You shouldn't be giving advice if this is the best that you can offer.

[Pib]

You probably shouldn't be blaming your orange and black logo Thai bank.

It's probably either a correspondent bank fee...that is, a correspondent bank NW had to use to get the money to the Thai bank and that correspondent bank took their fee....Or, you sent the money for all transfer fees to be paid by the sender (ie., you) and when the money arrived the Thai bank with that coding they had to send their receiving fee charge back to NW for payment. If a Thai bank has to send back the charge for their fee it's usually higher due to more admin work involved versus just automatically paying their receiving fee of approx Bt200 to Bt500.

Your orange and black logo Thai bank is probably innocent.

[Suradit69]

Did your UK bank send pounds or baht?

Why not open a Bangkok Bank account here and then have your UK bank transfer deposits to the UK branch of Bangkok Bank using the account number you got in Thailand.

It will be a domestic transfer as far as your UK bank is concerned.

When I do the similar procedure into the New York Bangkok Bank branch they charge me $10 in New York and Baht 200 to 300 locally, depending on the amount transferred. Never had a glitch now in over 15 years.

[howzat]

I transfer from hsbc and pay only one fee to hsbc.

There are several option buttons to press regarding the charges. My charge is Gbp15 and no charges by Thai bank.

[steven100]

corresponding bank will take a fee ...... nothing is free !!!! I send thousands every couple of weeks ... live with it or don't send ...

Not every institution would need a Correspondent Bank. You shouldn't be giving advice if this is the best that you can offer.

wrong, the corresponding bank will always take a fee out for being the receiver.

Bangkok bank takes 300 baht for anthing from New York or Australia, UK to Bangkok Citibank take a fee.

[chiang mai]

corresponding bank will take a fee ...... nothing is free !!!! I send thousands every couple of weeks ... live with it or don't send ...

Not every institution would need a Correspondent Bank. You shouldn't be giving advice if this is the best that you can offer.

wrong, the corresponding bank will always take a fee out for being the receiver.

Bangkok bank takes 300 baht for anthing from New York or Australia, UK to Bangkok Citibank take a fee.

You appear to be confusing the words "correspondent bank" and the word "corresponding". A correspondent bank is one who acts on behalf of another bank, typically when the first bank doesn't have overseas transfer capabilities and this is nearly always associated with the "send" part of the transaction.

The term "corresponding bank" is sometimes used to refer to the receiving bank.

[steven100]

corresponding bank will take a fee ...... nothing is free !!!! I send thousands every couple of weeks ... live with it or don't send ...

Not every institution would need a Correspondent Bank. You shouldn't be giving advice if this is the best that you can offer.

wrong, the corresponding bank will always take a fee out for being the receiver.

Bangkok bank takes 300 baht for anthing from New York or Australia, UK to Bangkok Citibank take a fee.

You appear to be confusing the words "correspondent bank" and the word "corresponding". A correspondent bank is one who acts on behalf of another bank, typically when the first bank doesn't have overseas transfer capabilities and this is nearly always associated with the "send" part of the transaction.

The term "corresponding bank" is sometimes used to refer to the receiving bank.

When sending funds abroad the initiating bank will either have an affiliated or on this case ' corresponding ' or correspondent ' bank at the receiving end. Some cases the bank does not have an affiliated or correspondent bank and therefor will forward the funds through one of that countries larger banks such as in Australia they will use ANZ and in the UK it may be Barclays or similar.

There is always a charge for receiving funds at the beneficiary end.

The term corresponding & correspondent bank, in my case was referring to the bank at the receiving end.

[chiang mai]

Not every institution would need a Correspondent Bank. You shouldn't be giving advice if this is the best that you can offer.

wrong, the corresponding bank will always take a fee out for being the receiver.

Bangkok bank takes 300 baht for anthing from New York or Australia, UK to Bangkok Citibank take a fee.

You appear to be confusing the words "correspondent bank" and the word "corresponding". A correspondent bank is one who acts on behalf of another bank, typically when the first bank doesn't have overseas transfer capabilities and this is nearly always associated with the "send" part of the transaction.

The term "corresponding bank" is sometimes used to refer to the receiving bank.

When sending funds abroad the initiating bank will either have an affiliated or on this case ' corresponding ' or correspondent ' bank at the receiving end. Some cases the bank does not have an affiliated or correspondent bank and therefor will forward the funds through one of that countries larger banks such as in Australia they will use ANZ and in the UK it may be Barclays or similar.

There is always a charge for receiving funds at the beneficiary end.

The term corresponding & correspondent bank, in my case was referring to the bank at the receiving end.

But a correspondent bank is not the receiving bank, it is an intermediary that is used by the sending bank and is totally separate from the receiving bank.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/correspondent-bank.asp

[Naam]

When sending funds abroad the initiating bank will either have an affiliated or on this case ' corresponding ' or correspondent ' bank at the receiving end. Some cases the bank does not have an affiliated or correspondent bank and therefor will forward the funds through one of that countries larger banks such as in Australia they will use ANZ and in the UK it may be Barclays or similar.

There is always a charge for receiving funds at the beneficiary end.

The term corresponding & correspondent bank, in my case was referring to the bank at the receiving end.

international procedure is no charge at the receiving end if the sender's instructions are "net without any charges" then applicable fees of the correspondent bank are debited (usually a few days later) to the sender's account.

Thai banks of course will take their fees anyway.

[jacky54]

I understand Banks taking fees, what I don't get is NW saying they debited the swift fee and that the orange banks debits were extra fees and then the orange bank saying no their debit was not for extra fees but the NW transfer fee., which they then get wrong anyway. Deciding who to believe and trust is not really difficult. Also why has it not happened with the past 12 transfers? all I get from the orange bank is nonsense, much like when Big C overprices something- customers fault not theirs.

[The Fat Controller]

You probably, as I did by mistake once, ticked the wrong box on the Nationwide form regarding who pays the extra fees, receiving bank or your own account.

Go back and look at the SWIFT form and check !

As for "no fees" at the Thai bank, there will always be a receiving fee, usually of 0.25% (minimum 200 baht\maximum 500 baht) though this is not obvious as it is not shown, you just get credited with the net amount.

My cock-up transfer amount credited was £ x TT Rate exactly, with a fee sent back to Nationwide of around £20 which was charged about 2 weeks later.

All other SWIFT amounts credited were (£ x TT Rate) - 500 baht with just the net amount shown as a foreign transfer in the bank book.

Edited June 16, 2015 by The Fat Controller

[IMA_FARANG]

Not all banks have Swift transfer capability to overseas banks.

Those that don't will often use a Correspondent bank who can do such a transfer.

The Correspondent bank will take a fee for that "service" and you as the sender will usually have to pay that fee.

If they were completely Transparent with their service fees they should tell you that.... but many won't.

I don't believe they are required to tell you that by law.

[Pib]

Here's a TV post from Sep 14 talking about a Nationwide transfer to a Thai bank....how extra fees were applied....it turned out to be a correspondent bank fee, HSBC, that Nationwide had to use. Link.

And as mentioned earlier if by accident a person clicked the wrong fee box requiring all fees to be paid by the sender versus letting the Thai receiving bank apply its fee when the fund initially arrive, they their is a fee that flows back to the Sending bank for payment. Quite a few posts on TV admitting to that whoops.

[jacky54]

I have now had a letter from the Nationwide and an explanation from Tanachart. NW say as expected the 'extra fees' from Tanachart have nothing to do with them or the transfer fee of 20 pounds already debited by them. Tanachart say their debit was not extra fees but NW fee of 25 pounds that they are entitled too. So just going round in a circle and will have to forget it. On a brighter note I could not use my credit card for a day and NW gave me 50 quid compensation, would you get that from any Thai Bank?, that's if you could get a credit card out of them of course.

Edited June 18, 2015 by jacky54

[Pib]

As mentioned in other posts and based on this 2012 thread where the same thing happened to another poster it appears to be because of how you selected to send the money from NW/who will pay the charges.

That is, you probably selected a method which says the Sender (i.e., you) will pay all transfer fees on the sending, correspondent, and receiving. This coding forces Thanachart to flow the receiving fee charge back to NW/you for payment....and since more work is involved in flowing the charge back it's higher than the typical Bt200-Bt500 Thai bank receiving fee. You should have selected Shared.

See this 2012 thread started by sms747 and what he found out.

Also take a look at below SWIFT definition of sending methods and who pays the fees and compared that to the options offered by NW for the fee payment....and look at the processed transaction to see which one your selected. Now below was not taken from the NW site....NW probably uses slightly different wording in how they describe their sending options fee-wise.

[jacky54]

So if you click the wrong button you get charged twice and bank here even charges at a former, higher rate? well that seems fair

[Dmaxdan]

I understand Banks taking fees, what I don't get is NW saying they debited the swift fee and that the orange banks debits were extra fees and then the orange bank saying no their debit was not for extra fees but the NW transfer fee., which they then get wrong anyway. Deciding who to believe and trust is not really difficult. Also why has it not happened with the past 12 transfers? all I get from the orange bank is nonsense, much like when Big C overprices something- customers fault not theirs.

I also bank with NW in the UK, and earlier this year I experienced the exact same problem as you. I have been doing SWIFT transfers twice a year for the past six years, and have only ever paid the £20 NW fee. I spoke to my bank here (the purple one) and NW to try an understand what had changed, but never really reached a satisfactory conclusion. My feeling is that NW have changed the way they process SWIFT transfers, and are now using a third party bank which is where the additional fees have come from. But this is a pure guess.........

[Pib]

So if you click the wrong button you get charged twice and bank here even charges at a former, higher rate? well that seems fair

So, have you went online to your NW account and reviewed the processed transaction.

What selection did you choose for paying the transfer fees?

[NeverSure]

One way to understand correspondent bank relationships is that it is a relationship where each is the other's customer and they have accounts with each other and agreements. A bank which doesn't have coverage somewhere or which doesn't provide a certain service such as foreign exchange will use a correspondent who can do it.

In layman's terms the one bank can transfer money into its account at the correspondent bank and ask that they handle it. The sending bank is a customer of the receiving bank. The receiving bank processes it and forwards it on.

That's oversimplified, but that's the nuts and bolts about how it works.

Edited June 18, 2015 by NeverSure

[jacky54]

Amazingly tanachart have debited me another 750 baht for the transfer made on May first, from the UK this time for 'extra fees' so to transfer a small amount ended up costing 60 Uk pounds, two thirds of that going to the receiving bank, rather difficult to be happy about never mind understand.

[Chivas]

No idea why the OP wont name the Bank concerned but I'm bemused by him saying he pays £20 from Nationwide.

Halifax is £9.50 and I know they are at the higher end of the Scale. My last two transfers have seen 500 Baht taken at Thai end either by or prior to receipt by SCB so around £19 all up

I believe HSBC only charge £4 online ??

Edited June 20, 2015 by Chivas

[Pib]

No idea why the OP wont name the Bank concerned but I'm bemused by him saying he pays £20 from Nationwide.

Halifax is £9.50 and I know they are at the higher end of the Scale. My last two transfers have seen 500 Baht taken at Thai end either by or prior to receipt by SCB so around £19 all up

I believe HSBC only charge £4 online ??

He did identify Thai bank in the post before yours. He also identified it in his post #19...the Thai bank is Thanachart.

[Chivas]

No idea why the OP wont name the Bank concerned but I'm bemused by him saying he pays £20 from Nationwide.

Halifax is £9.50 and I know they are at the higher end of the Scale. My last two transfers have seen 500 Baht taken at Thai end either by or prior to receipt by SCB so around £19 all up

I believe HSBC only charge £4 online ??

He did identify Thai bank in the post before yours. He also identified it in his post #19...the Thai bank is Thanachart.

Yes I did subsequently notice. Why he couldn't name it in OP I have no idea. Some people are afraid of their shadow

[jacky54]

No idea why the OP wont name the Bank concerned but I'm bemused by him saying he pays £20 from Nationwide.

Halifax is £9.50 and I know they are at the higher end of the Scale. My last two transfers have seen 500 Baht taken at Thai end either by or prior to receipt by SCB so around £19 all up

I believe HSBC only charge £4 online ??

He did identify Thai bank in the post before yours. He also identified it in his post #19...the Thai bank is Thanachart.

Yes I did subsequently notice. Why he couldn't name it in OP I have no idea. Some people are afraid of their shadow

I thought 'naming and shaming' was not allowed on the forum that's all. So far the transfer has cost 61.86 pounds, is this a record?

[jacky54]

No idea why the OP wont name the Bank concerned but I'm bemused by him saying he pays £20 from Nationwide.

Halifax is £9.50 and I know they are at the higher end of the Scale. My last two transfers have seen 500 Baht taken at Thai end either by or prior to receipt by SCB so around £19 all up

I believe HSBC only charge £4 online ??

He did identify Thai bank in the post before yours. He also identified it in his post #19...the Thai bank is Thanachart.

Yes I did subsequently notice. Why he couldn't name it in OP I have no idea. Some people are afraid of their shadow

I thought 'naming and shaming' was not allowed on the forum that's all. So far the transfer has cost 61.86 pounds, is this a record?