Cost of living in Chiang Mai: how much $$ is needed per year?

[Ilario]

What is everyone's opinion on how much yearly income does a family of three ( with a child in an International School ) need to live quite comfortably and well in Chiang Mai? Not including housing costs, but everything else? cars, insurance, food, etc. I have been told as little as 35 to 40K USD, to as much as 60K which seems quite high. Any opinions? Point of view?

Ilario

[FolkGuitar]

This question should generate a huge spread of answers, as everyone has a very different idea of what constitutes a 'quality lifestyle.'

My wife and I live very comfortably, eating in restaurants 10-15 times a week, taking 4-5 day motorcycle trips around Thailand a few times a year, 2-3 day dive vacations down in the Gulf islands, and live in a nice security condo with swimming pool, restaurants, and covered parking, and do it for half of what some single men say is their minimum bare existence!

Your spread of 35 to 40K USD, to as much as 60K sounds about right. You can probably do it for less and you can certainly do it for more.

Do you drink expensive wine several times a week? Eat a lot of cheese? Wish to fly back to the States several times a year? Be a two-car family? Eat American/European foods more often than Thai foods? All of these will see you spending towards the high side. If not, then the lower side. Food alone can make or break the equation. Imported US brands cost 5x more than the same product made in Thailand. Some couples who only shop in Rimping (lots of imports) spend 3,000-5,000 baht per week on groceries while other couples shopping in a local market might spend 1,000 per week.

There are so many variables in the answer to your question that you really need to address before anyone can give you a more narrow margin.

Edited June 16, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[Ilario]

"quality life" is a subjective judgement -- regardless, your reply was very helpful. Thank you. We wouldn't eat out much, maybe have 2 cars and travel in country or region once or twice. Probably grow a lot of our food or buy it at local markets. Kindle books are a vice -- as is wine -- that might be a problem... regardless, 40K to 50K seems to be the range, with the lower end possible if we don't travel much. We just don't want to feel like we are pinching pennies to get by .. we would like to live comfortably, simply and well. Seems like we can...

thanks again,

Ilario

[masuk]

I use a Kindle extensively, as English languages books, new or very old, are far from cheap.

My local library in Australia has ebooks and I download these when my collection starts running low.

Local markets are a huge saving, and wholesalers such as MAKRO can save a lot also. The high-end stores such as Rimping and TOPS and kitchen items in Central are often more than 3x the price I pay in Australia.

I won't even mention wine, as the tax here protects the Thai "wine industry"

Don't forget that power here is 220 - 240 volt, 50Hz. Plenty of appliances here, but they don't seem to last more than 2 or 3 years.

[MESmith]

Take international school out the equation, you can live very cheaply here.

[amexpat]

" Plenty of appliances here, but they don't seem to last more than 2 or 3 years."

Maybe a string of bad luck there. My fridge, microwave, clothes washer, tv, and several fans have lasted 6+ years without a hiccup.

[Dante99]

A child in International School can take as much as USD 10-20k/yr, the high end being high school at Prem.

The rest is a shot in the dark because "live quite comfortably and well" has vastly different meanings for different people. You want two cars, Benz and BMW, eat high quality western food, wine, liquor .... USD 60k/yr will not be enough. I bet 35 is too low.

[Lowriesuzanne]

It's expensive to be me. I have a personal trainer 2x every day... yoga stretching after swim and strength training in the afternoon. I download books. I read one every day. I don't care about cheese and wine but I eat out one meal per day. I get a massage almost every day. My puppy has her groomer once a week. I have a maid and a gardener 2x per week. If you add HOA and lawyer fees I spend $5,000 US every month.I am not counting rent. I scuba dive so that costs money to get a dog sitter, fly to Phuket and take a boat. If this is your life style, you save on food and trainers but spend on air fare.

[MaeJoMTB]

We live on $17k a year, 3 adults, 2 children. (That includes my wife's home loan repayments)

Same quality of life as I lived in the UK, but with better weather and a younger wife.

@Lowries

Not much scuba diving in Chiang Mai.

@Masuk

I thought ebooks were free!

Edited June 16, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[bangmai]

7 THB per Km to operate a car, when all is said and done...so if you put 20K Km on each per year, (12K miles), which really isn't many...that alone would be 23K per month. Another 7K per month for health insurance..now your at 30K, before you had your first 200 thb hamburger. LIST is a moderately priced international school, and 12-15K, per month.

[masuk]

" Plenty of appliances here, but they don't seem to last more than 2 or 3 years."

Maybe a string of bad luck there. My fridge, microwave, clothes washer, tv, and several fans have lasted 6+ years without a hiccup.

yup, I should have said 'minor appliances' e.g. toaster, electric jug and so on.

buy cheap, get cheap.

My condo SONY TV didn't last 2 years, and the landlord had to get a new screen for it.

[anonymouse]

Utility bills, food, rental properties [if you do your research] are all dirt cheap compared to Western Countries.

Insurance, International School fees, running a car and Imported goods such as wine and cheese will certainly add to the costs to a large degree.

Looking at your expectations; running 2 cars, International School, imported wine and your initial set up in CM I'd say budget for nearer 60k PA

[masuk]

We live on $17k a year, 3 adults, 2 children. (That includes my wife's home loan repayments)

Same quality of life as I lived in the UK, but with better weather and a younger wife.

@Lowries

Not much scuba diving in Chiang Mai.

@Masuk

I thought ebooks were free!

they are indeed, tho not all are free unless you belong to a a library.. I was responding to a comment made on an earlier posting.

[gamini]

This is a really silly question. How can any body possibly advise you what you need to live in chaingmai. It entirely depends on your background, your way of life. You can live like a Thai as many foreigners do. You can live like a king with lots of servants. You might even own a private plane or have lots of racehorses.
It depends what kind of friends you have. There are a lot of very rich foreigners living in chaingmai. There are also a lot of very poor foreigners trying to live in chaingmai on a pittance

[MESmith]

Running a car expensive? The only ones who think that are the ones without 4 wheels

[thrilled]

A million baht is about right for all over Thailand.Can also do some traveling besides.

[slipperylobster]

Consider online, alternative education..perhaps with some tutoring in home.

I don't see any particular advantages for a family here in Thailand. Renting a home might be cheaper, but buying vehicles, condos, homes (if you can)...are just as expensive. Utilities are cheaper, but gas for your car is high. I would not want to raise children here.

Thailand is great for my long term partner and I. We rent a large home, eat out, go dancing, travel, bicycle, go to a gym/pool, do a lot of gardening (5 kilometers north of CM)...and spend quite a bit of time on the computers (air con room) at home. Also have a nice new car, scooter, motorbike, along with the bicycles. Putting 3 kids through school would not be affordable for me. We do out lifestyle on 50,000 baht a month...and save about 25,000 per month. (Long term plan is purchase a travel trailer and truck in the USA...for vacations back home).

We are 70 percent enjoying it here....good lifestyle for our money....but I do miss the states (gone 20 years).

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[zeichen]

I am unclear if the school fees come out of that budget. You said housing doesn't. If school fees come out, then that is literally half your 30k USD. I think the average upper middle class family could live well enough on 100-150k baht a month 3-5k USD amonth. So yes, you are in the range of 40kUSD+

Lifestyles can vary so drastically though. There are people that earn 50k baht a month and save half, then there are those that earn 100k and spend all. You never know who is living in debt, who is living beyond their means and who is really comfortable.

One thing most people don't calculate when they think of this stuff, is the start up costs. Moving your crap over, getting the house the way you want it. Clothes, cooking stuff, fixing or replacing things that break. Having an emergency fund of half your yearly salary is always a good thing.

Most families will spend 5-10x their monthly budget the first few months getting adjusted. You will do a lot of things and explore stuff spending a lot more than you will after you get settled and learn the cost of life. What things are worth the splurge and what things to give up. I know people that spend 1k baht a month just on blueberries and cherries. With all the great local fruit, I don't see why they cannot give up those for most of the year. Some people need to buy imported things because they don't want to find local brands that might be as good.

If you are spending more here than you would in your home country, you are definitely doing something wrong. But things aren't cheap here either so learning to adjust is important. If you want to live exactly as you do in your home country, then I really don't see the point of leaving.

[zeichen]

"Your post did not say two cars. Unless noted people will just think that is one car and double the figure for two."

Not that I like defending bangmai but he actuall did by stating 20k on each per year. On each infers more than one.

"7 THB per Km to operate a car, when all is said and done...so if you put 20K Km on each per year,"

[Tywais]

Inflammatory posts removed due to someone misreading a post.

[bangmai]

Median household income in the province is under 30K thb per month....don't really see much suffering....but if you want to pay 3X for western stuff, and use 7 air-conditioners....costs can mount up quickly. BTW, 40K THB per month puts your household in the top 20%, in BKK.

[Oscar2]

Median household income in the province is under 30K thb per month....don't really see much suffering....but if you want to pay 3X for western stuff, and use 7 air-conditioners....costs can mount up quickly. BTW, 40K THB per month puts your household in the top 20%, in BKK.

that coming from a guy who lives in a one room apartment, can only afford travel insurance, and runs a FB group - "eating out in C.M. for under 50 Baht". quality...

[bangmai]

Median household income in the province is under 30K thb per month....don't really see much suffering....but if you want to pay 3X for western stuff, and use 7 air-conditioners....costs can mount up quickly. BTW, 40K THB per month puts your household in the top 20%, in BKK.

that coming from a guy who lives in a one room apartment, can only afford travel insurance, and runs a FB group - "eating out in C.M. for under 50 Baht". quality...

It eliminates the constant pizza/burger/english breakie threads you get here. 32 square meters is actually larger than most of the new studios...and it's paid for.

[zeichen]

"

Median household income in the province is under 30K thb per month....don't really see much suffering....but if you want to pay 3X for western stuff, and use 7 air-conditioners....costs can mount up quickly. BTW, 40K THB per month puts your household in the top 20%, in BKK."

Why did I bother defending you when you then go and post absolute rubbish. 40k thb a month doesn't put you in the top 20% in BKK. To be in the top 20% it would be more like 100k+. The top 5% are absolutely rich.

40k ThB is middle class not even upper middle.

"Median household income in the province is under 30K thb per month." That is true, it is a lot less than 30k. The problem is that there are a lot of extremely poor people and subsistence farmers that ruin the number. But Middle class families are on a lot more than 30k a month.

100k a month puts people in Upper middle class but not even close to the barrier for Wealthy.

[bangmai]

Who said anything about wealthy? Per capita GDP per capita is about 3500 USD or about 1/13th what it is in the US. Average household with two people.....and median is going to be less than average, due to the few, who are actually wealthy. We had a similar discussion about a year ago, about the Game's prices and the demographics of HD. Lots of talk about the wealthy Thais etc...Now look at their FB page: "Low Prices." Plenty of college grads would be thrilled to make 20K per month. Minimum wage law will be up to the individual provinces next year.

[Beetlejuice]

"quality life" is a subjective judgement -- regardless, your reply was very helpful. Thank you. We wouldn't eat out much, maybe have 2 cars and travel in country or region once or twice. Probably grow a lot of our food or buy it at local markets. Kindle books are a vice -- as is wine -- that might be a problem... regardless, 40K to 50K seems to be the range, with the lower end possible if we don't travel much. We just don't want to feel like we are pinching pennies to get by .. we would like to live comfortably, simply and well. Seems like we can...

thanks again,

Ilario

I have lived in Thailand for 31 years and know how much it costs a family to live here.

Regarding the details you have mentioned above, you are looking at 50000 baht per month, perhaps less is you are prepared to put up with some basic necessities and not do social or travel much. Then add on to that any accommodation rents and aprox 16000 baht per month International School fees. So being realistic, you can estimate your total annual expenditure being almost 800000 baht per year.($26000 US).

In my case, Mrs Beetlejuice and I live in our own home no rents to pay. We do not use air con, because I hate it, prefer fans and each of us have motorbikes and no cars. We have dogs and cats and mostly shop at the local markets. Our children are adult now, so no more school fees, they don`t live at home but are always on the ear hole for money. My total monthly living expenditure, 30000 baht on average. We are not having champagne breakfasts on that, plus we don`t go out much and mostly eat at home, but what I consider as living comfortably.

If you and Mrs Llario enjoy regular vacations, eating out at Western style restaurants on a regular basis, eating mostly farangy foods, expect to have air con and all modern conveniences in the home, including pay cable or satellite TV and fast Internet, having to use your vehicles every day, than obviously this is going to increase your living expenditure considerably. Also, if you are the type who enjoys some wine, women and song on occasions than that will whack up your costs.

So the answer to your question is; depends. If you are prepared to live my kind of lifestyle then with International School fees, you could do it on 46000 baht per month. As regarding wanting a better lifestyle than that, then it`s like asking; how long is a piece of string? It all depends on your expectations of a life style here.

[ThaiPauly]

It is also prudent to factor in medical care. How much is a personal thing depending on how healthy you are but for someone in their 60's for example Sheryl on the Health Forum has said that you should have 2m in the bank to allow for medical emergencies. A heart attack and subsequent care can eat this amount up very quickly unless you have adequate medical insurance

[zeichen]

"Regarding the details you have mentioned above, you are looking at 50000 baht per month, perhaps less is you are prepared to put up with some basic necessities and not do social or travel much. Then add on to that any accommodation rents and aprox 16000 baht per month International School fees. So being realistic, you can estimate your total annual expenditure being almost 800000 baht per year.($26000 US)."

What? Tuition alone will be more than 400k baht. So you think his family that are used to living a certain way will spend less than 30k baht a month?

Why not read the OP and look at what kind of lifestyle he wants to live with his family. yes, I bet you can support your family on 40k baht a month but that wouldn't even pay for his kids school. Unless you want his child to go to a 3rd rate school like Lana.

[kerrysum]

This is a really silly question. How can any body possibly advise you what you need to live in chaingmai. It entirely depends on your background, your way of life. You can live like a Thai as many foreigners do. You can live like a king with lots of servants. You might even own a private plane or have lots of racehorses.

It depends what kind of friends you have. There are a lot of very rich foreigners living in chaingmai. There are also a lot of very poor foreigners trying to live in chaingmai on a pittance

Ding!!!!!!!!!

I reward you with the quote of the day! And yes it is quite a silly question!

[technologybytes]

Family of three, comfortable with international school. I'd say no less than 75,000 baht per month, I wouldn't like to do it myself on less than 100,000 if you are paying rent.

If you are single you can live on a shoestring here, but with a family it's a different ball game.

Edited June 17, 2015 by technologybytes