Eating less MUCH more important than exercise for weight control

[Jingthing]

I exercise a lot and eat as much as I want.

Works for me.

No will power to stop eating.

Have you ever been obese in your life?

Have you ever lost a significant amount of weight eating as much of whatever you like as you want?

If so, you'd be VERY RARE.

I lost 17Kg, eating as much as I want, down from 90Kg to 73Kg.

OK. Thanks for that. Congratulations and an interesting anecdotal case for you but it hardly proves something general for the greater human population. Which is what the OP is about.

[h90]

I exercise a lot and eat as much as I want.

Works for me.

No will power to stop eating.

Have you ever been obese in your life?

Have you ever lost a significant amount of weight eating as much of whatever you like as you want?

If so, you'd be VERY RARE.

I lost 17Kg, eating as much as I want, down from 90Kg to 73Kg.

OK. Thanks for that. Congratulations and an interesting anecdotal case for you but it hardly proves something general for the greater human population. Which is what the OP is about.

If you exercise a lot, say 1500 kcal per day you'll get into shape automatic....no matter what you eat. Considering, you won't eat while on the bike. you won't each much the 1.5 hours before. And you'll tend or your body will demand food that is good to be able to do the same on the next day. Some wrong food won't matter if you burn 3500-4500 kcal per day.

That will work for everyone. Just most people have neither the willpower nor the time (need to work, need to take care their kids, etc) to do that. But it is no question at all that it works.

I knew actually 2 people who were obese and started with sport after divorce.....one got obsessed with the bicycle the other with running. One was lean the other who was running was just bone and skin last time I saw him.

[mommysboy]

If food is around most people eat more of it, and keep on eating it. That's human nature. We all want to repeat something which is enjoyable. The only way to stop people eating is to take away the food or prevent them in some way, which would provoke howls of derision.

Diets often don't work because people have to repeatably do something which they really don't want to do.

So exercise is the only plausible option. It may not result in people losing weight, but people will become fitter and healthier, and that is most important.

[h90]

If food is around most people eat more of it, and keep on eating it. That's human nature. We all want to repeat something which is enjoyable. The only way to stop people eating is to take away the food or prevent them in some way, which would provoke howls of derision.

Diets often don't work because people have to repeatably do something which they really don't want to do.

So exercise is the only plausible option. It may not result in people losing weight, but people will become fitter and healthier, and that is most important.

No.....Diets often don't work because people don't want to follow them. We aren't animals who follow instincts and must push everything in our mouth that smells good.

You can even train a dog to accept the food from its owner only and leave everything else alone. If the dog has enough willpower to resist so have people.

Of course everyone has some weak moments....have a good time at the barbecue and eat too much....having that often enough you maybe have 5-10 kg too much. But look what the really fat one eat. It is not easy to get 150 kg.

Having some discipline is the solution.....

[mommysboy]

You see people don't follow diets because it goes against their enjoyment of life. Willpower is only really useful for short duration. Sooner or later many fall by the wayside. It isn't laziness or lack of discipline. Everywhere you turn there is food these days.

[Jingthing]

It's way too simplistic to think that weight control is purely a morality "will power" question. There are many complex factors at play, including social, food environment, and biological ones. I do agree will power is PART of it, but in no way is it the ENTIRE story.

[MaeJoMTB]

It's way too simplistic to think that weight control is purely a morality "will power" question. There are many complex factors at play, including social, food environment, and biological ones. I do agree will power is PART of it, but in no way is it the ENTIRE story.

How much do you weigh?

How much weight have you lost using 'faddy' diets?

You want facts from us, but supply little about yourself (sorry if I missed them somewhere).

[Jingthing]

As I've posted about extensively before, in recent years I have lost a large amount of weight and managed to maintain that loss for well over a year.

That means I am in the rare category of weight loss success ... scientists know the percentage of people who accomplish that is very low. Anyone can easily find the statistics about that ... for all the morality preaching, that is the reality out there.

It's offensive of you to think I believe in fad diets. Not sure where you got that silly idea. I don't believe in diets at all. It's about changing your relationship with food FOR LIFE.

Anyway, my personal anecdotal experience is that the food intake part IS much more important than the exercise part which does happen to gel with the consensus of mainstream science these days.

My personal experience doesn't prove anything for all of humanity any more than any other persons. That's why we have science ... to attempt to draw more general conclusions that might be useful to the MAJORITY of people.

There are always exceptions.

[MaeJoMTB]

As I've posted about extensively before, in recent years I have lost a large amount of weight and managed to maintain that loss for well over a year.

So a bit 'light' on the details then?

[Jingthing]

As I've posted about extensively before, in recent years I have lost a large amount of weight and managed to maintain that loss for well over a year.

So a bit 'light' on the details then?

Stop baiting me.

I have never given my exact height and weight here and I never intend to.

I'm not going to post my photo or phone number either here.

That is my choice.

I have posted about BMI and more details than I think you can possibly stomach on my GARCINIA CAMBOGIA thread.

If you post one more baiting personal dig, you're on my ignore list. I have no tolerance for hostile posters on this weight control forum.

I never asked you for detailed weight or BMI info either. I asked a general question because I am very skeptical of people who claim they have lost a lot of weight and kept it off mostly by exercise because that is both not my personal experience and also mainstream science now indicates the FOOD part is by far the more important part (and YES I believe it).

The fact that some individuals here have PERSONAL EXPERIENCES contrary to this mainstream science means nothing to me as far as the general situation for most of humanity.

[MaeJoMTB]

As I've posted about extensively before, in recent years I have lost a large amount of weight and managed to maintain that loss for well over a year.

So a bit 'light' on the details then?

Stop baiting me.

I have never given my exact height and weight here and I never intend to.

I'm not going to post my photo or phone number either here.

That is my choice.

I have posted about BMI and more details than I think you can possibly stomach on my GARCINIA CAMBOGIA thread.

If you post one more baiting personal dig, you're on my ignore list. I have no tolerance for hostile posters on this weight control forum.

You need to stop throwing your weight around and lighten up a bit.

[Jingthing]

Throw my weight around?

OK, that's it. Goodbye.

[mmh8]

no, its still an eenrgy balance. if you eat less but still don't do shit you still stay fat and get fatter. you only influence the rate. you need to find a way to burn the energy off.

for married fatties having an affair would help, getting caught and running away will help even more.

but sex with the same partner is not the optimum, sex with a new partner will raise your metabolism higher every time

[h90]

You see people don't follow diets because it goes against their enjoyment of life. Willpower is only really useful for short duration. Sooner or later many fall by the wayside. It isn't laziness or lack of discipline. Everywhere you turn there is food these days.

Many things goes against our enjoyment of life.....

We wake up in the morning and go to work instead of enjoy our life.

We don't get total drunk every night

Many stopped smoking.

Willpower or better call it discipline is it for a short duration but later you get used to it. If you don't eat any junk food because you know it isn't good for you, it needs less an less discipline. If you never eat a breakfast you get used to it. If you never eat any sweet things, the normal sweet things taste too sweet you wouldn't like it much.

You see all the fatties eating and shopping and you actually need willpower to eat something.

Or to word it other....willpower comes first, than discipline and with time it gets automatic and normal.

[h90]

no, its still an eenrgy balance. if you eat less but still don't do shit you still stay fat and get fatter. you only influence the rate. you need to find a way to burn the energy off. for married fatties having an affair would help, getting caught and running away will help even more. but sex with the same partner is not the optimum, sex with a new partner will raise your metabolism higher every time

wrong.....if you eat less, less than you burn you get slim. Even if you don't move at all your body needs energy. Eat less than the body need and you get slim without any exercises. It isn't good because you also loose muscles but it still works.

[singa-traz]

It's way too simplistic to think that weight control is purely a morality "will power" question. There are many complex factors at play, including social, food environment, and biological ones. I do agree will power is PART of it, but in no way is it the ENTIRE story.

And it's so easy to give up our responsabilities, and put the blame on external factors. So, convenient.

Which part we don't have control over?

• What we eat?
• How much we eat?
• How much we drink?
• How much we exercice?

Want to stop drinking Soda? Stop buying them at the shop. Nobody will automatically resupply your fridge at night.

Want to improve your food quality? Learn how to cook.

What's the next excuse not to take control? (the right question is, why are you afraid to take control?)

It's the same with many thing. People want something, but don't want to commit to it. Convenience.

And yes, giving up too easily is a moral flaw. The good news is this can be fixed.,

This is where an exercice program is actually important, as it will really help build up your "will power".

Two years ago, my weight was getting close to 100KG.

Now, I'm slowly getting into the low 80KG range, and running marathons.

Many people will tell that they have/had this dream to run a marathon one day, but ...

• They don't have the discipline
• They don't have the time
• They have pain here and there
• They don't have proper shoes
• ...

Same. All excuses. No real commitment.

I'm a pretty lazy guy, so if I can commit to train 3-4 times a week for 4 months to properly run 42KM, anyone can do it.

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

Nobody else but you can take this commitment decision.

[mommysboy]

It's way too simplistic to think that weight control is purely a morality "will power" question. There are many complex factors at play, including social, food environment, and biological ones. I do agree will power is PART of it, but in no way is it the ENTIRE story.

And it's so easy to give up our responsabilities, and put the blame on external factors. So, convenient.

Which part we don't have control over?

• What we eat?
• How much we eat?
• How much we drink?
• How much we exercice?

Want to stop drinking Soda? Stop buying them at the shop. Nobody will automatically resupply your fridge at night.

Want to improve your food quality? Learn how to cook.

What's the next excuse not to take control? (the right question is, why are you afraid to take control?)

It's the same with many thing. People want something, but don't want to commit to it. Convenience.

And yes, giving up too easily is a moral flaw. The good news is this can be fixed.,

This is where an exercice program is actually important, as it will really help build up your "will power".

Two years ago, my weight was getting close to 100KG.

Now, I'm slowly getting into the low 80KG range, and running marathons.

Many people will tell that they have/had this dream to run a marathon one day, but ...

• They don't have the discipline
• They don't have the time
• They have pain here and there
• They don't have proper shoes
• ...

Same. All excuses. No real commitment.

I'm a pretty lazy guy, so if I can commit to train 3-4 times a week for 4 months to properly run 42KM, anyone can do it.

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

Nobody else but you can take this commitment decision.

I guess my own point is a little more humble, what is the point of doing something like a marathon when it is unenjoyable, even detrimental to our well being. Isn't it better just to try and enjoy life. Does life have to be such a struggle.?

I maintain no diet/fitness regime will succeed unless enjoyment is built in to it.

[singa-traz]

It's way too simplistic to think that weight control is purely a morality "will power" question. There are many complex factors at play, including social, food environment, and biological ones. I do agree will power is PART of it, but in no way is it the ENTIRE story.

And it's so easy to give up our responsabilities, and put the blame on external factors. So, convenient.

Which part we don't have control over?

• What we eat?
• How much we eat?
• How much we drink?
• How much we exercice?

Want to stop drinking Soda? Stop buying them at the shop. Nobody will automatically resupply your fridge at night.

Want to improve your food quality? Learn how to cook.

What's the next excuse not to take control? (the right question is, why are you afraid to take control?)

...

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

Nobody else but you can take this commitment decision.

I guess my own point is a little more humble, what is the point of doing something like a marathon when it is unenjoyable, even detrimental to our well being. Isn't it better just to try and enjoy life. Does life have to be such a struggle.?

I maintain no diet/fitness regime will succeed unless enjoyment is built in to it.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that to lose weight you have to become a long distance runner.

It's more an example of what people can do with commitment.

And if I share my experience about long distance running, it's not to brag about myself (under an anonymous id?), but to show that everyone has this potential.

I agree with you that for long term success (weight control), you better enjoy what you are doing, whether for your diet and/or exercise program.

But, I don't agree with your first statement about "struggle".

• If done properly, running long distance such as Marathon is not detrimental to your health.
• "Unenjoyable"? Never heard of the exercice induced endorphin rush? You should try.
• And Don't confuse pain and suffering. Somebody famous said "In life, pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional."

So, what could force people to accept pain (to a certain level)? What's wrong with them?

As I mentioned in previous posts, I did not even like running when I started ... so, keep your mind open, was another learning point.

But I have to admit, I have the same feeling about people lifting weight, I just don't see the point.

Maybe one day, I will crack this one;.

[h90]

It's way too simplistic to think that weight control is purely a morality "will power" question. There are many complex factors at play, including social, food environment, and biological ones. I do agree will power is PART of it, but in no way is it the ENTIRE story.

And it's so easy to give up our responsabilities, and put the blame on external factors. So, convenient.

Which part we don't have control over?

• What we eat?
• How much we eat?
• How much we drink?
• How much we exercice?

Want to stop drinking Soda? Stop buying them at the shop. Nobody will automatically resupply your fridge at night.

Want to improve your food quality? Learn how to cook.

What's the next excuse not to take control? (the right question is, why are you afraid to take control?)

It's the same with many thing. People want something, but don't want to commit to it. Convenience.

And yes, giving up too easily is a moral flaw. The good news is this can be fixed.,

This is where an exercice program is actually important, as it will really help build up your "will power".

Two years ago, my weight was getting close to 100KG.

Now, I'm slowly getting into the low 80KG range, and running marathons.

Many people will tell that they have/had this dream to run a marathon one day, but ...

• They don't have the discipline
• They don't have the time
• They have pain here and there
• They don't have proper shoes
• ...

Same. All excuses. No real commitment.

I'm a pretty lazy guy, so if I can commit to train 3-4 times a week for 4 months to properly run 42KM, anyone can do it.

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

Nobody else but you can take this commitment decision.

I guess my own point is a little more humble, what is the point of doing something like a marathon when it is unenjoyable, even detrimental to our well being. Isn't it better just to try and enjoy life. Does life have to be such a struggle.?

I maintain no diet/fitness regime will succeed unless enjoyment is built in to it.

If you run regularly you'll start to love it....Don't know why.....

[h90]

It's way too simplistic to think that weight control is purely a morality "will power" question. There are many complex factors at play, including social, food environment, and biological ones. I do agree will power is PART of it, but in no way is it the ENTIRE story.

And it's so easy to give up our responsabilities, and put the blame on external factors. So, convenient.

Which part we don't have control over?

• What we eat?
• How much we eat?
• How much we drink?
• How much we exercice?

Want to stop drinking Soda? Stop buying them at the shop. Nobody will automatically resupply your fridge at night.

Want to improve your food quality? Learn how to cook.

What's the next excuse not to take control? (the right question is, why are you afraid to take control?)

...

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

Nobody else but you can take this commitment decision.

I guess my own point is a little more humble, what is the point of doing something like a marathon when it is unenjoyable, even detrimental to our well being. Isn't it better just to try and enjoy life. Does life have to be such a struggle.?

I maintain no diet/fitness regime will succeed unless enjoyment is built in to it.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that to lose weight you have to become a long distance runner.

It's more an example of what people can do with commitment.

And if I share my experience about long distance running, it's not to brag about myself (under an anonymous id?), but to show that everyone has this potential.

I agree with you that for long term success (weight control), you better enjoy what you are doing, whether for your diet and/or exercise program.

But, I don't agree with your first statement about "struggle".

• If done properly, running long distance such as Marathon is not detrimental to your health.
• "Unenjoyable"? Never heard of the exercice induced endorphin rush? You should try.
• And Don't confuse pain and suffering. Somebody famous said "In life, pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional."

So, what could force people to accept pain (to a certain level)? What's wrong with them?

As I mentioned in previous posts, I did not even like running when I started ... so, keep your mind open, was another learning point.

But I have to admit, I have the same feeling about people lifting weight, I just don't see the point.

Maybe one day, I will crack this one;.

with lifting weights it is the same as with running. Once you do it regularly you love it. I started it when I diet, because I didn't want to loose muscle but keep most of the fat and after a short while I really love it.

[mmh8]

 

no, its still an eenrgy balance. if you eat less but still don't do shit you still stay fat and get fatter. you only influence the rate. you need to find a way to burn the energy off. for married fatties having an affair would help, getting caught and running away will help even more. but sex with the same partner is not the optimum, sex with a new partner will raise your metabolism higher every time

wrong.....if you eat less, less than you burn you get slim. Even if you don't move at all your body needs energy. Eat less than the body need and you get slim without any exercises. It isn't good because you also loose muscles but it still works.

 

if you eat less you get less fat. the metabolism slows down and gets used to the safety reserve of fat it builds up. if you remain inactive your body gets better at holding onto the energy store. thus it is rate, on its own diet will not help weight control unless it is a famine diet - there are people who do this, one case a cook some ridiculous weight of flab not muscle, trianed to be a zen type monk. no food for 3 months or so with nothing but water, tea and the water used to cook rice to survive on. he lost all the weight down to 60 kg or so, his stomach collapsed , and various other medical problems replaced his obesity.

you need both in conjunction but,

if you eat the same amount and burn off all that energy and the stores by excerise you will do better. 1. the exercise will teach your body to run at higher metabolic rate, respiration and all that. thus you can achieve the weight control through exercise, wheresa the other way may be possible but at risk to your health.

As for being MUCh more important I say NOT, how could it be,

[h90]

 

no, its still an eenrgy balance. if you eat less but still don't do shit you still stay fat and get fatter. you only influence the rate. you need to find a way to burn the energy off. for married fatties having an affair would help, getting caught and running away will help even more. but sex with the same partner is not the optimum, sex with a new partner will raise your metabolism higher every time

wrong.....if you eat less, less than you burn you get slim. Even if you don't move at all your body needs energy. Eat less than the body need and you get slim without any exercises. It isn't good because you also loose muscles but it still works.

 

if you eat less you get less fat. the metabolism slows down and gets used to the safety reserve of fat it builds up. if you remain inactive your body gets better at holding onto the energy store. thus it is rate, on its own diet will not help weight control unless it is a famine diet - there are people who do this, one case a cook some ridiculous weight of flab not muscle, trianed to be a zen type monk. no food for 3 months or so with nothing but water, tea and the water used to cook rice to survive on. he lost all the weight down to 60 kg or so, his stomach collapsed , and various other medical problems replaced his obesity.

you need both in conjunction but,

if you eat the same amount and burn off all that energy and the stores by excerise you will do better. 1. the exercise will teach your body to run at higher metabolic rate, respiration and all that. thus you can achieve the weight control through exercise, wheresa the other way may be possible but at risk to your health.

As for being MUCh more important I say NOT, how could it be,

your metabolism slightly slows down, maybe from a 3000 kcal to a 2500 or maybe 2000. Eat just 1500 and you will still loose fat. The zen type monk was an idiot. It is well known that the body needs Vitamins, essential Fat acids and a certain amount of protein including essential Amino Acids. Beside that it is well known that extreme diets, zero food should be done only for a short time under supervision of a doc and with supply of at least vitamins and minerals.

1000s of anecdotal cases from house wifes who diet themself into good shape when their husband had a girlfriend, non of them did extra sports.

[mommysboy]

When we were young, most of us would have had our diet controlled by our parents, or perhaps grew up post war when there was not a lot of opportunity to get fat at all, indeed just surviving was the only game in town.

Likewise we exercised a lot, it didn't feel like it because we played.

Now, it seems that exercise has become divorced from play. I guess my biggest gripe is I can't play football any more.

I'm really not in to the idea of pounding the roads or treadmill. It's not real enjoyment. Also chasing a euphoric high is not real fun. When I exercise too much be it on the treadmill, or on the weights, or indeed in my youth when I played a lot of football, then the result is/was always the same, burn out, pain, and some form of injury/illness.

So when I consider say a 55 year old, plodding the roads regularly, in a climate like Thailand of all places, i can only see a problem developing. In the absence of a football pitch, golf course, or swimming pool, or tennis court, then a good alternative would be an unrushed visit to the gym for a bit of everything, hopefully with a like minded friend. And as for maximum benefit, well in 1 short but exhausting minute, it is possible to push yourself healthily and derive most benefit.

I must admit I could be wrong, and this could reflect that I am just average at sport, and also I am particularly poor at looking after my body too, do not eat healthily, and frequently don't rest enough. It might well be very different for a super athlete type, who is good at looking after himself. They aren't ten a penny though, and at 50 plus the game changes for everyone.

[h90]

When we were young, most of us would have had our diet controlled by our parents, or perhaps grew up post war when there was not a lot of opportunity to get fat at all, indeed just surviving was the only game in town.

Likewise we exercised a lot, it didn't feel like it because we played.

Now, it seems that exercise has become divorced from play. I guess my biggest gripe is I can't play football any more.

I'm really not in to the idea of pounding the roads or treadmill. It's not real enjoyment. Also chasing a euphoric high is not real fun. When I exercise too much be it on the treadmill, or on the weights, or indeed in my youth when I played a lot of football, then the result is/was always the same, burn out, pain, and some form of injury/illness.

So when I consider say a 55 year old, plodding the roads regularly, in a climate like Thailand of all places, i can only see a problem developing. In the absence of a football pitch, golf course, or swimming pool, or tennis court, then a good alternative would be an unrushed visit to the gym for a bit of everything, hopefully with a like minded friend. And as for maximum benefit, well in 1 short but exhausting minute, it is possible to push yourself healthily and derive most benefit.

I must admit I could be wrong, and this could reflect that I am just average at sport, and also I am particularly poor at looking after my body too, do not eat healthily, and frequently don't rest enough. It might well be very different for a super athlete type, who is good at looking after himself. They aren't ten a penny though, and at 50 plus the game changes for everyone.

Well when I was young I went every night drinking and on the day I studied. I cut the money for the food so I have more for the fun....kept me slim....

My parents had a way of exercise....They had a few favorite restaurants (bar? pub? whatever is the right word) which are pretty far away (easily 2-3 hours for both ways).

So the went there with the bicycle or walked there. Drank 1 beer and walked back and drink a glass of wine at home. They kind of loved it. As the target was the beer.

They would never walked around (or bike) without purpose. But that one beer was purpose enough....

End of course they still enjoy the company of each other..

[impulse]

Hopped on a treadmill the other day at the hospital. 45 minutes and 4.5 km later (8 degree incline), I had burned off the calories from the french fries that came with my hamburger. Not the hamburger, mind you...just the french fries.

Look at the calories in the food. Look at the calories burned doing various exercises. The math is scary.

But on a more conspiratorial (is that a word?) note, more and more evidence is piling up that the chemicals added to our food are affecting appetite. Pesticides, preservatives, flavor enhancers- they all affect whether we ever get satiated, no matter how much we eat.

So it's not just about willpower. But willpower is all we have control over- unless we want to grow, harvest and cook our own food. Sadly, I work for a living and that's not in the cards for at least a few years...

[h90]

Hopped on a treadmill the other day at the hospital. 45 minutes and 4.5 km later (8 degree incline), I had burned off the calories from the french fries that came with my hamburger. Not the hamburger, mind you...just the french fries.

Look at the calories in the food. Look at the calories burned doing various exercises. The math is scary.

But on a more conspiratorial (is that a word?) note, more and more evidence is piling up that the chemicals added to our food are affecting appetite. Pesticides, preservatives, flavor enhancers- they all affect whether we ever get satiated, no matter how much we eat.

So it's not just about willpower. But willpower is all we have control over- unless we want to grow, harvest and cook our own food. Sadly, I work for a living and that's not in the cards for at least a few years...

I have a trainer for the bicycle and it has sound transparent mathematics which is only slightly optimistic. To burn a 350 kcal in one hour is a good number. Some mobile phone apps give me the double kcal for the same exercise.

With 350 kcal per hour you don't make much....Well trained you may increase it to 450 and you can do it 2 hours is 900 kcal.

1 Big Mac without french fries and coke is 550 kcal.

There are several things in food that act like estrogen, that makes males fat. MSG tells the body that it is a must have food...you overeat on MSG and you overeat on sweets. Alcohol as well.

When I was at university they told us that McDonalds is doing the flavor tests not with the question if it taste good, they do it on the question if you would order more food. Everything is optimized on you eat more.

Yes we can't grow, harvest and cook ourself. But cooking (breakfast and dinner) can be done in 5 min each......OK it will be a bit boring food, but it doesn't need to be every day. Lunch you can bring something from at home. You can buy organic food now in some supermarkets.

OK it is difficult and not perfect, but it is easy to go from Big Mac to 80% healthy, which is good enough.

[robblok]

They should just put the appetite killing parts of yabaa in a pill and things would be a lot easier for everyone. Everyone knows that when people are high on that they dont eat (opposed to weed that they use to give cancer patients appetite). There are things that really kill appetite.. too bad they are not safe.

[h90]

They should just put the appetite killing parts of yabaa in a pill and things would be a lot easier for everyone. Everyone knows that when people are high on that they dont eat (opposed to weed that they use to give cancer patients appetite). There are things that really kill appetite.. too bad they are not safe.

There are (were?) several products developed from Amphetamines with exactly that idea. Problem is that you can't fully separate it. Even more if people eat way more of it than intended.

As well the product should be in a way that it can't modified back.

So we are back at discipline.....No pill yet that replaces discipline.... Anyway it is the wrong way to fix flaws in character with pills.

[mommysboy]

They should just put the appetite killing parts of yabaa in a pill and things would be a lot easier for everyone. Everyone knows that when people are high on that they dont eat (opposed to weed that they use to give cancer patients appetite). There are things that really kill appetite.. too bad they are not safe.

There are (were?) several products developed from Amphetamines with exactly that idea. Problem is that you can't fully separate it. Even more if people eat way more of it than intended.

As well the product should be in a way that it can't modified back.

So we are back at discipline.....No pill yet that replaces discipline.... Anyway it is the wrong way to fix flaws in character with pills.

Yes, but eating is so central to our enjoyment of life. Many people manage to give up the booze,and the cigs. That's relatively simple, they are not natural and not necessary, and just require a big effort in self control for a week or two, but giving up favourite food is ongoing. So I think discipline is not suitable in this instance, bound to fail or have a miserable existence imo.

Nicotine is an appetite suppressor, and vaping appears nearly safe.

[h90]

They should just put the appetite killing parts of yabaa in a pill and things would be a lot easier for everyone. Everyone knows that when people are high on that they dont eat (opposed to weed that they use to give cancer patients appetite). There are things that really kill appetite.. too bad they are not safe.

There are (were?) several products developed from Amphetamines with exactly that idea. Problem is that you can't fully separate it. Even more if people eat way more of it than intended.

As well the product should be in a way that it can't modified back.

So we are back at discipline.....No pill yet that replaces discipline.... Anyway it is the wrong way to fix flaws in character with pills.

Yes, but eating is so central to our enjoyment of life. Many people manage to give up the booze,and the cigs. That's relatively simple, they are not natural and not necessary, and just require a big effort in self control for a week or two, but giving up favourite food is ongoing. So I think discipline is not suitable in this instance, bound to fail or have a miserable existence imo.

Nicotine is an appetite suppressor, and vaping appears nearly safe.

by just cooking yourself and don't eat the junk from Pizza Company, McDonalds, KFC, and no sweets from the supermarket etc you are already half good.

Make a healthy pizza yourself, you don't need to give it up. And after a while the factory made food will taste artificial to you. So you don't need as much discipline as it seems....just pass the McDonalds.....