Proof of income or money in the bank

[No1Farang]

I am British, aged 64, and have a Non Immigrant O/A multi entry visa. Admitted until 20 Oct 2015. I intend to apply for an extension of temporary stay. I receive a company pension in the UK which is more than the minimum required.

My understanding is I can get a Consular letter confirming my Pension income from the British Embassy in Bangkok. My question is will the British Embassy accept an internet print out of my bank's monthly statements as proof of income? If not what is the acceptable form of proof?

Also on the TM7 form for the Thai Immigration one question asks for "reason for extension". What do they like to read for an answer to this?

Thanks in advance for any help

[Beachman]

Check what is required here

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/423129/Pension_10_02_15__Master.pdf

[OJAS]

On the TM7 simply state RETIREMENT as the reason for extension (that's what I do).

But as regards income proof, I would strongly recommend that you provide the Embassy with your pension provider's latest statement with details of your current gross pension rates (again, as I do, with no problem) instead of bank statements. It is gross figures which are taken into account in reckoning compliance with the 65,000 THB minimum monthly income requirement. Bank statements, of course, only indicate net figures after the jolly old taxman at HMRC has taken his share.

[VIPinthailand]

I won't have any retirement pension as this is for the lucky baby boomers.

instead I have stocks and bonds but as it can become zero income in case of a economic crash or war , how can i prove I have some income?

[JB300]

I won't have any retirement pension as this is for the lucky baby boomers.

instead I have stocks and bonds but as it can become zero income in case of a economic crash or war , how can i prove I have some income?

I didn't think you could use income from stocks as, for the reason you've given, it isn't "Regular", so I think you need to go down the 800k in the bank route.

[JLCrab]

I won't have any retirement pension as this is for the lucky baby boomers.

instead I have stocks and bonds but as it can become zero income in case of a economic crash or war , how can i prove I have some income?

Your Embassy -- if you are indeed a citizen of any country -- can tell you what is required to meet their proof of income for purposes of extension.

[MYKTHEMIN]

British embassy has for the last 7 years accepted internet print outs of my uk bank statements as proof of income, I now do money in the bank as I hate Bangkok and the embassy fees are a rip off in my opinion.

[gk10002000]

I won't have any retirement pension as this is for the lucky baby boomers.

instead I have stocks and bonds but as it can become zero income in case of a economic crash or war , how can i prove I have some income?

I didn't think you could use income from stocks as, for the reason you've given, it isn't "Regular", so I think you need to go down the 800k in the bank route.

I am in a similar situation. I don't trade and expect to make capital gains. So I am not projecting any ups or downs or fantastic day trading. All my stocks and bonds and stock and bond funds pay dividends and interest and have done so for many, many years, and much of it is tax exempt. When I affirm my income at the US Embassy, I will bring my brokerage account statements, and brokerage 1099 forms for many years as proof if needed. Now, does that mean the income will continue? No, but I am sure my stocks such as ATT, GE, INTC, NYCB etc.. and my dozen different Municipal Bonds, and my several bond funds that have 100s of bonds in each of their holdings are not all going to stop paying out. I probably trust my income diversification more than I would than if from a single company's pension plan. A government pension is a bit more solid, but not if one had one from certain countries, Greece comes to mind!

[ubonjoe]

I am in a similar situation. I don't trade and expect to make capital gains. So I am not projecting any ups or downs or fantastic day trading. All my stocks and bonds and stock and bond funds pay dividends and interest and have done so for many, many years, and much of it is tax exempt. When I affirm my income at the US Embassy, I will bring my brokerage account statements, and brokerage 1099 forms for many years as proof if needed. Now, does that mean the income will continue? No, but I am sure my stocks such as ATT, GE, INTC, NYCB etc.. and my dozen different Municipal Bonds, and my several bond funds that have 100s of bonds in each of their holdings are not all going to stop paying out. I probably trust my income diversification more than I would than if from a single company's pension plan. A government pension is a bit more solid, but not if one had one from certain countries, Greece comes to mind!

You will not need any proof to do the income affidavit at the embassy.

But immigration can ask for back proof. The best back up proof would be a Thai bank book showing funds coming into the country on a regular basis.

[IMA_FARANG]

I won't have any retirement pension as this is for the lucky baby boomers.

instead I have stocks and bonds but as it can become zero income in case of a economic crash or war , how can i prove I have some income?

Your Embassy -- if you are indeed a citizen of any country -- can tell you what is required to meet their proof of income for purposes of extension.

------------------------------

I can tell you that the U.s. embassy will allow you to present a letter from a verified (legal) financial agent who will provide a document of your stock assets and the details of how that income is submitted to you monthly which will be adequate for the U.S. embassy..... but I'm not sure about the U.K. rules however.

[NancyL]

The U.S. Embassy doesn't ask anyone to present any proof of income and have no desire to look at the details of someone's brokerage, investment and retirement accounts. However, the local immigration office may ask an application to prove regular monthly income of 65,000 baht each and every month and they aren't going to be willing to pour over reams of print-outs from the internet about how (in theory) there could be 65,000 baht of income. The immigration officer is going to want to see a Thai bank book with regular deposits each and every month, ATM withdrawal slips or other easy-to-understand evidence that 65,000 baht is coming into Thailand each and every month.

[stoli]

Absolutely true.

The U.S. Embassy doesn't ask anyone to present any proof of income and have no desire to look at the details of someone's brokerage, investment and retirement accounts.

Anything can be forged today, and very quickly. They take your word for it when you tell them what you earn, and have you swear to it. Very easy.....

[jpinx]

By all accounts the UK embassy is not easy to deal with, so the 800k in a Thai bank might be the better option, also depend on where you live - how convenient it is to get to the embassy. Watch for the required maturity times on money in the Thai bank, different on initial and renewal.

[ubonjoe]

By all accounts the UK embassy is not easy to deal with, so the 800k in a Thai bank might be the better option, also depend on where you live - how convenient it is to get to the embassy. Watch for the required maturity times on money in the Thai bank, different on initial and renewal.

Getting the income letter from the UK embassy does not seem to be that difficult.

It is done by mail so there is not need to go to the embassy and it seems to they will only do them by mail. Click on the link in post number 2 for info..

[jpinx]

By all accounts the UK embassy is not easy to deal with, so the 800k in a Thai bank might be the better option, also depend on where you live - how convenient it is to get to the embassy. Watch for the required maturity times on money in the Thai bank, different on initial and renewal.

Getting the income letter from the UK embassy does not seem to be that difficult.

It is done by mail so there is not need to go to the embassy and it seems to they will only do them by mail. Click on the link in post number 2 for info..

Thank you They must have improved their service at last

[technologybytes]

The UK embassy is easy to deal with for verified income, its done by post.

You send them proof of income in the last year, a downloaded/printed bank statement is just fine.

They need to see 3 out of the last 6 months if the monthly amount is identical every month, if like me your monthly income fluctuates then send them the whole year.

You can obliterate any other information on the statement except income (need not be pension) and your name with a black marker for privacy reasons.

[Barin]

On the TM7 simply state RETIREMENT as the reason for extension (that's what I do).

But as regards income proof, I would strongly recommend that you provide the Embassy with your pension provider's latest statement with details of your current gross pension rates (again, as I do, with no problem) instead of bank statements. It is gross figures which are taken into account in reckoning compliance with the 65,000 THB minimum monthly income requirement. Bank statements, of course, only indicate net figures after the jolly old taxman at HMRC has taken his share.

I don't know about other Immigration Offices in Thailand but I've been officially advised by the Immigration Office in Nongkhai that from now on they will not accept any Letter from the Embassy as a proof of income for the so called "Retirement" non O-A visa extension any more.

Only a letter from Thai bank will be accepted in the future.

Did anyone have the same experience at Chaeng Wattana or Pattaya?

What about the Immigration Offices in Udon Thani and Khonkaen?

[ubonjoe]

On the TM7 simply state RETIREMENT as the reason for extension (that's what I do).

But as regards income proof, I would strongly recommend that you provide the Embassy with your pension provider's latest statement with details of your current gross pension rates (again, as I do, with no problem) instead of bank statements. It is gross figures which are taken into account in reckoning compliance with the 65,000 THB minimum monthly income requirement. Bank statements, of course, only indicate net figures after the jolly old taxman at HMRC has taken his share.

I don't know about other Immigration Offices in Thailand but I've been officially advised by the Immigration Office in Nongkhai that from now on they will not accept any Letter from the Embassy as a proof of income for the so called "Retirement" non O-A visa extension any more.

Only a letter from Thai bank will be accepted in the future.

Did anyone have the same experience at Chaeng Wattana or Pattaya?

What about the Immigration Offices in Udon Thani and Khonkaen?

I have seen reports of Nong Khai wanting a bank book showing the money coming in every month as a back up to the income letter.

Are you sure they said they would only accept 800k baht in the bank.

I have not seen any reports of any other office wanting it like that.

[Liquorice]

@No 1 farang.

It's quite straightforward and easy to get a Pension Income Letter from the British Embassy.

Just follow the instructions and download the form as given in Post#2.

Either a letter from your Insurance provider or bank statements will do.

Their letter will state both the monthly and annual income in sterling.

Immigration do the conversion to baht when you apply for your extension.

The British Embassy letter is valid for 6 months.

[Jeffkp]

I went to the US Consulate in Chiang Mai at the end of May of this year to get a "pension letter" from them to give to immigration. I went to some trouble to get the documents from my pension fund. I filled out a form and tried three times to show my "proof".

They never once looked at it. I just had to swear an oath and pay them $50.00.

God bless America!

[JB300]

I went to the US Consulate in Chiang Mai at the end of May of this year to get a "pension letter" from them to give to immigration. I went to some trouble to get the documents from my pension fund. I filled out a form and tried three times to show my "proof".

They never once looked at it. I just had to swear an oath and pay them $50.00.

God bless America!

I think there's a big difference between the UK & U.S. when it comes to "Evidence", but that's probably for another thread

Lol, joking aside, it seems the U.S. accepts the word of it's citizens to be good enough, whereas the UK wants to see "Evidence" as they don't trust those Limey/Pomme chancers...

[bTW, I'm a Brit (English) before anybody has a go at me for having a go at them/us]

[ubonjoe]

I went to the US Consulate in Chiang Mai at the end of May of this year to get a "pension letter" from them to give to immigration. I went to some trouble to get the documents from my pension fund. I filled out a form and tried three times to show my "proof".

They never once looked at it. I just had to swear an oath and pay them $50.00.

God bless America!

I think there's a big difference between the UK & U.S. when it comes to "Evidence", but that's probably for another thread

Lol, joking aside, it seems the U.S. accepts the word of it's citizens to be good enough, whereas the UK wants to see "Evidence" as they don't trust those Limey/Pomme chancers...

[bTW, I'm a Brit (English) before anybody has a go at me for having a go at them/us]

For the US it is not a matter of trust. It is a matter of the law that prohibits them from certifying a document or confirming it. It is also a criminal offense to make a false statement to a consular officer.

With the UK I guess it would be because they can.

[Jingthing]

For income method applications, there is absolutely no legal requirement to actually import that money into Thailand.

For example if you're claiming 80K per month and the income requirement is 65K, the required amount to IMPORT into Thailand monthly is ZERO baht.

Now if you're talking about enforcement tactics if immigration feels they need to verify income stated in embassy letters, they can demand whatever they want, but in reality there is absolutely no rule requiring IMPORT of stated income.

[etsllc]

I would not go too crazy here, just show your embassy what your current monthly income is or your yearly statement and let them do the math. Also always use the exchange rate of 32 Baht as this is a safe conversion rate and not the current rate which might be higher. I have been doing this for several years and do not have any issues. Also be advised that they look at the combined total that equals 800,000 Baht( Income and money in a Thai Bank ).

[smotherb]

For income method applications, there is absolutely no legal requirement to actually import that money into Thailand.

For example if you're claiming 80K per month and the income requirement is 65K, the required amount to IMPORT into Thailand monthly is ZERO baht.

Now if you're talking about enforcement tactics if immigration feels they need to verify income stated in embassy letters, they can demand whatever they want, but in reality there is absolutely no rule requiring IMPORT of stated income.

I am afriad that may be what the new immigration laws will state--that we have to bring the B65k/mo into Thailand.

[Jingthing]

For income method applications, there is absolutely no legal requirement to actually import that money into Thailand.

For example if you're claiming 80K per month and the income requirement is 65K, the required amount to IMPORT into Thailand monthly is ZERO baht.

Now if you're talking about enforcement tactics if immigration feels they need to verify income stated in embassy letters, they can demand whatever they want, but in reality there is absolutely no rule requiring IMPORT of stated income.

I am afriad that may be what the new immigration laws will state--that we have to bring the B65k/mo into Thailand.

You can be afraid of a lot of things, but I consider your post just scare mongering at this point.

There has been no such news of that so cross that bridge IF it comes.

I am just clarifying a detail that I've noticed a lot of people are confused about.

For the 800K bank method, the money does need to be in Thailand at time of application and the seasoning period.

But there is no requirement to IMPORT even one baht per year for the bank method.

But for the income method, again, the requirement is 65K monthly and there is no regulation whatsoever about how much needs to be imported.

Of course if an immigration officer wants additional evidence of the income claimed in an income letter they do have a right to demand whatever they like to prove it.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Jingthing

[Liquorice]

For income method applications, there is absolutely no legal requirement to actually import that money into Thailand.

For example if you're claiming 80K per month and the income requirement is 65K, the required amount to IMPORT into Thailand monthly is ZERO baht.

Now if you're talking about enforcement tactics if immigration feels they need to verify income stated in embassy letters, they can demand whatever they want, but in reality there is absolutely no rule requiring IMPORT of stated income.

I think it's the curiosity of the Police to ensure you have sufficient income to live on without illegally working.

I totally agree with your observations of the rules, but if your not bringing any income into Thailand then how are you living............and I suspect, they may suspect you of illegally working, without such proof.

As an example I use the money in the bank method (retirement). On my last extension application, I produced a letter from the bank and my passbook showing funds over 800,000 baht in a fixed deposit account. By rights that met the financial requirements.

The officer asked me how I was actually able to live in Thailand on the basis he could see that account hadn't been touched for months.

I fortunately had my passbook from my savings account, showing funds transferred and withdrawals.

He didn't want copies and it satisfied his interest.

It was pretty obvious he was just checking that I wasn't working to fund my stay in Thailand.

[Jingthing]

Yes, of course.

But that's a huge difference from people actually getting the impression that they are required under immigration law to IMPORT the full 800K baht annually (bank method) or the full 65K baht monthly (income method).

I do understand how people might get that false impression but I think it's important that this distinction is made.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Jingthing

[smotherb]

For income method applications, there is absolutely no legal requirement to actually import that money into Thailand.

For example if you're claiming 80K per month and the income requirement is 65K, the required amount to IMPORT into Thailand monthly is ZERO baht.

Now if you're talking about enforcement tactics if immigration feels they need to verify income stated in embassy letters, they can demand whatever they want, but in reality there is absolutely no rule requiring IMPORT of stated income.

I am afriad that may be what the new immigration laws will state--that we have to bring the B65k/mo into Thailand.

You can be afraid of a lot of things, but I consider your post just scare mongering at this point.

There has been no such news of that so cross that bridge IF it comes.

I am just clarifying a detail that I've noticed a lot of people are confused about.

For the 800K bank method, the money does need to be in Thailand at time of application and the seasoning period.

But there is no requirement to IMPORT even one baht per year for the bank method.

But for the income method, again, the requirement is 65K monthly and there is no regulation whatsoever about how much needs to be imported.

Of course if an immigration officer wants additional evidence of the income claimed in an income letter they do have a right to demand whatever they like to prove it.

Not trying any scare mongering, just concerned. In March I did my ninth retirement extension in Hatyai. There were new people in charge and for the first time they did not seem interested in the income letter; they wanted to see my Thai bank account. I showed them my Thai bank book, with maybe B5,000 in it. That satisfied them. However, they said I needed to show the bank book next time with the income. I questioned that by saying in essence what you say--no requirement to import baht. We went back and forth and they finally said they just wanted to see the bank book and I did not have to transfer the money. Now I hear more rumors. I will go down and talk to my old immigration buddy.

[Jingthing]

There is absolutely nothing I hear in your story that would lead me to believe that has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with an annual requirement to import "full" money.

It is NOTHING NEW at all for some immigration offices to want to see a bank book for those using the pure income method.

We've heard that off an on for many years as different offices. It's just an enforcement variance.

I really don't like rumors being started based on really NOTHING.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Jingthing