Formal nuclear deal has been reached with Iran

[samran]

As much as I wish it were true, I'm quite certain this agreement will be another blunder by the USA.

Iran will do whatever they can to appear to be following the agreement when in reality they don't care one bit about it. Meanwhile they will rake in aid and whatever else they can while it suits them.

Then when the UN finally realise and start to do something about it, Iran just throw the agreement in the bin and carry on as before.

Then the USA get them to the negotiating table and agree to give them a load more stuff if they promise to stop.

You simply cannot trust these people.

When it means that they help fight ISIS and brings down oil prices, the west can hold its nose for a lot of things.

Though I have my doubts, give me a semi-democratic Iranian ally anyday over the crazy Saudi's.

[JingerBen]

Thanks Obama/Kerry for making the world an even more dangerous place.

Unlike the wonderful world of sunshine and lollipops left to us from the Bush/Chaney presidency??? Think before you write.

The damage caused by Bush when he destabilized the Middle East by running his "illegal war for oil money based on lies" will haunt the entire world for generations to come.

I guess you think it would be best to just go in and start bombing Iran to hell rather than negotiating a civilized solution?

Bomb first...think and pay for your mistakes later????

9-11 demonstrated you cannot defend against terrorist attacks once they are hiding in your country. So they went after them in their training camps and also after governments who support them.

If it brought down a few SERIOUSLY evil dictators then that was a nice side effect.

The miscalculation was that the people of these countries were basically honest and would embrace democracy like people in the West. This was the big miscalculation : They aren't and they didn't. They are products of the same society as the dictator. Same reason Thailand will remain as corrupt as it is now for decades to come no matter what the Junta do.

I wonder what the world would be like if you got to make the big decisions. A lot more dead Americans for sure. Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing for an armchair critic. I bet that if you got into a debate with the people who made the decisions, they would make you look like an ignorant child.

"Never argue with an idiot."

Excellent advice... I'll take it.

[Jingthing]

It's gonna be interesting to see Obama sell this as a good thing when a long time enemy which still chants Death To America dances in the streets.

[connda]

Is this actually a treaty or is it some other type of agreement between the involved gov'ts and Iran?

It's probably the P5+1 talks, but I thought those included the West dropping sanctions. Time to go do some researching. I'm curious too.

[RuamRudy]

Thanks Obama/Kerry for making the world an even more dangerous place.

Unlike the wonderful world of sunshine and lollipops left to us from the Bush/Chaney presidency??? Think before you write.

The damage caused by Bush when he destabilized the Middle East by running his "illegal war for oil money based on lies" will haunt the entire world for generations to come.

I guess you think it would be best to just go in and start bombing Iran to hell rather than negotiating a civilized solution?

Bomb first...think and pay for your mistakes later????

9-11 demonstrated you cannot defend against terrorist attacks once they are hiding in your country. So they went after them in their training camps and also after governments who support them.

If it brought down a few SERIOUSLY evil dictators then that was a nice side effect.

The miscalculation was that the people of these countries were basically honest and would embrace democracy like people in the West. This was the big miscalculation : They aren't and they didn't. They are products of the same society as the dictator. Same reason Thailand will remain as corrupt as it is now for decades to come no matter what the Junta do.

I wonder what the world would be like if you got to make the big decisions. A lot more dead Americans for sure. Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing for an armchair critic. I bet that if you got into a debate with the people who made the decisions, they would make you look like an ignorant child.

What utter bilge! After 9-11, the West ignored the fact that most of the attackers were Saudis and attacked Iraq, a country that everyone agreed had absolutely nothing to do with 9-11 and, at that time, had no terrorism problems. If you want to talk about miscalculations, start there! But why bring 9-11 into it? Iran was vociferous in its condemnation of 9-11.

[samran]

It's gonna be interesting to see Obama sell this as a good thing when a long time enemy which still chants Death To America dances in the streets.

Successive US administrations have sold the Saudi relationship just fine even after 7 of their nationals flew three planes into the WTC and the pentagon.

And here you are fussing over a few dances in the streets of Tehran.

[brewsterbudgen]

It's gonna be interesting to see Obama sell this as a good thing when a long time enemy which still chants Death To America dances in the streets.

There are plenty of idiots in America saying just as stupid things about "muslims".

[pegman]

Can the U.S. congress effectively block this deal, or not? I know they won't like it but do they have the power to block it?

The GOP will force enough of their members to vote for this so as to have it pass both chambers. Why? To prevent Iranian blackmail on this, the Rotten Ronnie legacy!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Surprise_conspiracy_theory

[Jingthing]

It's gonna be interesting to see Obama sell this as a good thing when a long time enemy which still chants Death To America dances in the streets.

There are plenty of idiots in America saying just as stupid things about "muslims".

No equivalence dude. In Iran they are doing such chants at official regime rallies.

[connda]

Is this actually a treaty or is it some other type of agreement between the involved gov'ts and Iran?

It's probably the P5+1 talks, but I thought those included the West dropping sanctions. Time to go do some researching. I'm curious too.

The negotiators reached an agreement, but it has to be ratified by the countries negotiating the agreement. So this is far from a done deal. And the wild-card in the equation is Netanyahu. So, plenty of fun and games to be had over the next two months or so, especially as the US congress postures, US allies squirm, and Israel practices bombing runs using either conventional or low-yield nuke 'bunker busters'.

/Parody on

Bibi: "Treaties? We ain't got no Treaties? We don't need no Treaties. I don't have to show you any stinking Treaties!"

-- and a tip 'o the hat to John Huston's 1948 film adaptation of The Treasure of the Sierra Madre

/Parody off

Edited July 14, 2015 by connda

[pegman]

It's gonna be interesting to see Obama sell this as a good thing when a long time enemy which still chants Death To America dances in the streets.

There are plenty of idiots in America saying just as stupid things about "muslims".

I meet an Iranian on a baht bus today. Very nice guy. On the whole a much higher % of Iranians you run across are reasonable, rational human beings than you find amoung Americans. Especially within the expat groups here.

[pegman]

It's gonna be interesting to see Obama sell this as a good thing when a long time enemy which still chants Death To America dances in the streets.

There are plenty of idiots in America saying just as stupid things about "muslims".

No equivalence dude. In Iran they are doing such chants at official regime rallies.

Try checking out the official GOP news channel Fox to see the racial nonsense being spread.

[Credo]

If North Korea could develop nuclear weapons, there is no reason to believe that Iran will not eventually do the same. At least there will be some delays and oversight in the situation. But make no mistake, eventually they will get them.

This was negotiated by a group of countries; not just the US.

The Iranian regime feeds itself on hate for the US and Israel. They will need to keep their eyes on the ball, and that ball is ISIS -- neither the US or Israel.

There are a number of countries out there that are free to go ahead and try and take their program out.

[pegman]

Can the U.S. congress effectively block this deal, or not? I know they won't like it but do they have the power to block it?

The GOP will force enough of their members to vote for this so as to have it pass both chambers. Why? To prevent Iranian blackmail on this, the Rotten Ronnie legacy!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Surprise_conspiracy_theory

If that isn't enough the ayatollah can pull out the records on this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IranContra_affair

[Chicog]

110 billion dollars will be released to Iran.

Expect more Iranians in Pattaya!

And a ton more Iranian drug smugglers in Bang Kwang.

[BKKBobby]

Can the U.S. congress effectively block this deal, or not? I know they won't like it but do they have the power to block it?

I dont know US law but Obama just said he will use his veto if needed.

[Seastallion]

1 step closer to Nuclear War cos those crazy muslims WILL fire the rocket when they have one.

Hmmm...Pakistan has had nukes for quite a while....when did they fire one "when they had one"?

[arjunadawn]

Thanks Obama/Kerry for making the world an even more dangerous place.

Even an historic treaty making the world a safer place is dumped on. The hate for Obama knows no bounds.

Obama legacy grows. When you consider all that he's accomplished despite a Republican congress that's sole purpose was to stop him from doing anything, Obama has triumphed. His ratings grow by the day while the ridiculous Republican clowns continue their hateful, racist dialog.

He will be remembered as one of the nation's greatest President while we watch the demise of the GOP.

Well, one of the central premises of those who do not support this treaty, though not really discussed, is the very real notion that the absurdity will begin to unravel immediately with more dire consequences within a reasonable amount of time- if one could refer to anything regarding the breathless pursuit of a theocracy chasing a nuclear weapon reasonable with regard to time.

So, you adore Obama and yes, people like me despise him as a wolf in sheep's clothing; ok (though to Obama's credit the real fools are Americans as Obama has pretty much said he would do many of the things he has done). So, with regard to the narrow issue of this treaty not treaty executive arrangement/not- executive arrangement we should be able to openly address me as "fool" within... oh, say 18 months, if I am not correct. Give me that, 18 months!

But this deal will fall apart because there is no deal. However, I will not call you and others fools, only the collective sheep in America are the real fools as a bloc. They are fools and their foolishness (thru Obama) empowers Jihad, solidifies a caliphate, intensifies a bipolar arms race in the middle east that will necessarily no long be mid rather high intensity conflict, and increases the likelihood of global economic injury. These are solely among the regional insults to world stability, globally it is a borderline tinderbox everywhere because of recent policies (Bush included).

He may be remembered with great accolades, as you suggest, but it will not be Americans remembering him as such, it will be our enemies.

[Seastallion]

If North Korea could develop nuclear weapons, there is no reason to believe that Iran will not eventually do the same. At least there will be some delays and oversight in the situation. But make no mistake, eventually they will get them.

This was negotiated by a group of countries; not just the US.

The Iranian regime feeds itself on hate for the US and Israel. They will need to keep their eyes on the ball, and that ball is ISIS -- neither the US or Israel.

There are a number of countries out there that are free to go ahead and try and take their program out.

Please ask yourself, exactly why is that hate there? And in answering, do consider the oil deals/machinations since the 1920's.

Answer honestly, and consider if the tables were turned and your country had been screwed over by another, would you have some seething resentment?

[Pinot]

Thanks Obama/Kerry for making the world an even more dangerous place.

Even an historic treaty making the world a safer place is dumped on. The hate for Obama knows no bounds.

Obama legacy grows. When you consider all that he's accomplished despite a Republican congress that's sole purpose was to stop him from doing anything, Obama has triumphed. His ratings grow by the day while the ridiculous Republican clowns continue their hateful, racist dialog.

He will be remembered as one of the nation's greatest President while we watch the demise of the GOP.

Well, one of the central premises of those who do not support this treaty, though not really discussed, is the very real notion that the absurdity will begin to unravel immediately with more dire consequences within a reasonable amount of time- if one could refer to anything regarding the breathless pursuit of a theocracy chasing a nuclear weapon reasonable with regard to time.

So, you adore Obama and yes, people like me despise him as a wolf in sheep's clothing; ok (though to Obama's credit the real fools are Americans as Obama has pretty much said he would do many of the things he has done). So, with regard to the narrow issue of this treaty not treaty executive arrangement/not- executive arrangement we should be able to openly address me as "fool" within... oh, say 18 months, if I am not correct. Give me that, 18 months!

But this deal will fall apart because there is no deal. However, I will not call you and others fools, only the collective sheep in America are the real fools as a bloc. They are fools and their foolishness (thru Obama) empowers Jihad, solidifies a caliphate, intensifies a bipolar arms race in the middle east that will necessarily no long be mid rather high intensity conflict, and increases the likelihood of global economic injury. These are solely among the regional insults to world stability, globally it is a borderline tinderbox everywhere because of recent policies (Bush included).

He may be remembered with great accolades, as you suggest, but it will not be Americans remembering him as such, it will be our enemies.

Sigh...

[connda]

1 step closer to Nuclear War cos those crazy muslims WILL fire the rocket when they have one.

Hmmm...Pakistan has had nukes for quite a while....when did they fire one "when they had one"?

And next-door neighbor and adversary, India, has had nukes for quite a while, and both India and Pakistan seem to be able to keep them siloed.

My personal guess is that when the nuclear genie is let out of the bottle again, it probably won't be from a Muslim sovereign nation. Only one country has rubbed that genie out of the bottle - twice! Don't you get three bottle rubs with every genie? Lol.

Who knows? I expect to see nukes used in my life-time, and Thais call me Daa or Luang now. So, not too far off. Just my humble opinion as I look at World Events. Unfortunately, it seems the lunatics are now running the asylum - pretty much globally. Psychopath with a White Hat; Psychopath with a Black Hat; both are still Psychopaths.

[Credo]

If North Korea could develop nuclear weapons, there is no reason to believe that Iran will not eventually do the same. At least there will be some delays and oversight in the situation. But make no mistake, eventually they will get them.

This was negotiated by a group of countries; not just the US.

The Iranian regime feeds itself on hate for the US and Israel. They will need to keep their eyes on the ball, and that ball is ISIS -- neither the US or Israel.

There are a number of countries out there that are free to go ahead and try and take their program out.

Please ask yourself, exactly why is that hate there? And in answering, do consider the oil deals/machinations since the 1920's.

Answer honestly, and consider if the tables were turned and your country had been screwed over by another, would you have some seething resentment?

I am not sure what your talking about. I don't know what Israel has done to deserve they have gotten from day 1.

I don't think its a good idea for haters to have nuclear weapons, but that's just me.

Your justification is bogus. Nearly every country has been screwed over by others. You don't even have to go very far back in history to find it. That does not justify hate and hate and nuclear weapons don't go well together.

[Chicog]

Israel has relied on its nukes to basically cock a snook at the global community for years.

If its ar$e is ever against a wall, I'd imagine all the good work they've done developing Makkah will be out of the window in a trice.

[Wat dee]

Thanks Obama/Kerry for making the world an even more dangerous place.

Even an historic treaty making the world a safer place is dumped on. The hate for Obama knows no bounds.

Obama legacy grows. When you consider all that he's accomplished despite a Republican congress that's sole purpose was to stop him from doing anything, Obama has triumphed. His ratings grow by the day while the ridiculous Republican clowns continue their hateful, racist dialog.

He will be remembered as one of the nation's greatest President while we watch the demise of the GOP.

Maybe Jeb will dance with AIPAC,hope not. For some money isn't enough, they want blood too.

[BKKBobby]

If North Korea could develop nuclear weapons, there is no reason to believe that Iran will not eventually do the same. At least there will be some delays and oversight in the situation. But make no mistake, eventually they will get them.

This was negotiated by a group of countries; not just the US.

The Iranian regime feeds itself on hate for the US and Israel. They will need to keep their eyes on the ball, and that ball is ISIS -- neither the US or Israel.

There are a number of countries out there that are free to go ahead and try and take their program out.

Please ask yourself, exactly why is that hate there? And in answering, do consider the oil deals/machinations since the 1920's.

Answer honestly, and consider if the tables were turned and your country had been screwed over by another, would you have some seething resentment?

I am not sure what your talking about. I don't know what Israel has done to deserve they have gotten from day 1.

I don't think its a good idea for haters to have nuclear weapons, but that's just me.

Your justification is bogus. Nearly every country has been screwed over by others. You don't even have to go very far back in history to find it. That does not justify hate and hate and nuclear weapons don't go well together.

Resentment and strong suspicion against the US and UK by Iran is warranted. Its a normal human reaction. How that hate manifests itself is something else.

The US and Iran aint going to be best of buddies, but ISIS is a big threat to the region and a game changer in the mideast, plenty of US allies are working against the will of their patron by giving them free passage, funding and arming them.

The Iranian regimes focused hate towards Israel is not justified. I agree.

Edited July 14, 2015 by BKKBobby

[chuckd]

This is not going to be a formal treaty. It is what is termed an Executive Agreement, executed between the President and a foreign power.

An Executive Agreement does not require Congressional approval.

However, after an agreement is signed, Congress has a 60 day window to read the agreement and enact any laws they see fit prior to the final signature. Should the President agree to the added legislation he signs the bill and inserts it into the agreement.

Should he disagree with the legislation he will veto it and return it to the Congress with his veto.

Congress can override his veto with a 2/3rds majority. If they do, the legislation then becomes law and is part of the agreement.

Obama just said on television he will veto any legislative attempt to change the agreement so there will be no changes, as it is highly unlikely Congress can come up with the required votes to override his veto.

An Executive Agreement is valid beyond the President's term, which expires at high noon on 20 January 2017, however the elephant in the room is whichever President succeeds Obama can void the agreement with the stroke of a pen.

It isn't exactly written in stone and could be cancelled by the next President upon his inauguration in 2017.

I hope this helps all you Aussies and Euros wade through the machinations of US politics.

Edited July 14, 2015 by chuckd

[Scott]

Thanks for the explanation, there are probably plenty of US citizens who needed a little refresher on it as well.

[chuckd]

Perhaps. Hope it helps them as well.

[Usernames]

This is not going to be a formal treaty. It is what is termed an Executive Agreement, executed between the President and a foreign power.

An Executive Agreement does not require Congressional approval.

However, after an agreement is signed, Congress has a 60 day window to read the agreement and enact any laws they see fit prior to the final signature. Should the President agree to the added legislation he signs the bill and inserts it into the agreement.

Should he disagree with the legislation he will veto it and return it to the Congress with his veto.

Congress can override his veto with a 2/3rds majority. If they do, the legislation then becomes law and is part of the agreement.

Obama just said on television he will veto any legislative attempt to change the agreement so there will be no changes, as it is highly unlikely Congress can come up with the required votes to override his veto.

An Executive Agreement is valid beyond the President's term, which expires at high noon on 20 January 2017, however the elephant in the room is whichever President succeeds Obama can void the agreement with the stroke of a pen.

It isn't exactly written in stone and could be cancelled by the next President upon his inauguration in 2017.

I hope this helps all you Aussies and Euros wade through the machinations of US politics.

If it passes, it's a fait accompli. Doesn't matter what the next president signs, the sanctions will be gone, the frozen assets will be gone. The Iranians will have gotten every thing they wanted and can go their merry way.

[Seastallion]

This is not going to be a formal treaty. It is what is termed an Executive Agreement, executed between the President and a foreign power.

An Executive Agreement does not require Congressional approval.

However, after an agreement is signed, Congress has a 60 day window to read the agreement and enact any laws they see fit prior to the final signature. Should the President agree to the added legislation he signs the bill and inserts it into the agreement.

Should he disagree with the legislation he will veto it and return it to the Congress with his veto.

Congress can override his veto with a 2/3rds majority. If they do, the legislation then becomes law and is part of the agreement.

Obama just said on television he will veto any legislative attempt to change the agreement so there will be no changes, as it is highly unlikely Congress can come up with the required votes to override his veto.

An Executive Agreement is valid beyond the President's term, which expires at high noon on 20 January 2017, however the elephant in the room is whichever President succeeds Obama can void the agreement with the stroke of a pen.

It isn't exactly written in stone and could be cancelled by the next President upon his inauguration in 2017.

I hope this helps all you Aussies and Euros wade through the machinations of US politics.

Thanks chuck...but how does anything the next president of the US do affect an agreement with Iran between the 5+1?