Superstition/Witchcraft In LOS - Credible?

[micmichd]

Does anyone believe the money shifted around by banks does really exist?

[Docno]

You haven't been in Thailand very long have you? Despite the fact that Thailand claims to be mainly Buddhist the dominant set of beliefs here is animism. It pervadres everything from birth to death.

True. And I would have said the same thing about my European Catholic grandmother...

[klauskunkel]

it's credible if you believe in it, if you don't it's not credible. Up to you.

[Docno]

There is a very good reason to why there is a distinction between "modern/western medicine" and "everything else".

People can believe what they want but believing things like "avoiding certain people" will do you any good or bad is just plain ignorant. And i use ignorant lightly as stronger words aren't allowed on this forum.

See, that's what I was talking about.

Just because you have a pretty good idea that something is likely to be true, and that it's counterintuitive to think otherwise....in FACT there is no proof that avoiding certain people is useful OR useless.

Yes, and there's no proof that unicorns don't exist either...

We have a pretty good idea at this point about how the body works and how 'everyday physics' works, and there's nothing in that extensive knowledgebase that would explain how avoiding certain people would help with healing (unless, of course they are infectious).

[Docno]

Though I am not a big believer and there are quite a few frauds out there, check out placebo effects in Western medicine too… our own minds have healing powers and if you have belief, can be tapped into… that said, most of what I have seen here is pretty fraudulent.

A Hawaiian shaman I once met told me that black magic, curses are nothing more than words - they gain power when people believe they have power…

I have seen many different sorts of "ceremonies" here bringing my father in law all over the place. I did get a good laugh like when an old man fussed over a glass of water for 15 minutes then took a giant gulp and spit it all over my father in law… surprised him too - but he wanted to go back a few days later and this time the old man was at the hospital the irony of which I did not hesitate to pass along.

Very good point re placebo effect. It can be very powerful ... and it's probably how some superstitions are sustained over time.

[dotpoom]

You haven't been in Thailand very long have you? Despite the fact that Thailand claims to be mainly Buddhist the dominant set of beliefs here is animism. It pervadres everything from birth to death.

What's the length of time he's here got to do with anything?

We in the West have our fair share of "taboos" too. Many people will not put No. 13 on their doors, some wouldn't dream of walking under a ladder (and not just for the obvious reasons). Many have lucky, colors, articles of clothing, numbers, etc., etc., etc., ...the list goes on.

Edited July 21, 2015 by dotpoom

[kannot]

Goblins Elves Witches Thor Zeus God Black Magic Voodoo........ Take your pick, all equally stupid at least science can reproduce its results rather than some mumbo jumbo

[smotherb]

I think it would be unscientific to discard all superstitions, medicines and poultices just out-of-hand.

Not only unscientific, but unrealistic to discard all we do not understand. I used to suffer migraines. In the '70's in the PI, I suffered the worst migraine attack I'd ever had. My gf brought in a Kepwing--a witch doctor. He built a fire and burned some foul smelling material, prepared a paste of various plants and roots, and brewed a tea, of sorts. I inhaled the smoke, drank the tea and he chanted while he rubbed my hands and temples with the paste, placed shark's teeth between the webs of my fingers, and wrapped my head and hands in leaf fiber. I passed-out. When I awoke the next morning, my headache was gone. Knock on wood, I have not had a recurrence of migraine since then, almost 40 years. Did he cure me? Was it coincidence? I do not know, but I will certainly not discount what I do not know. I think there is an element of the unknown with all medicines and all doctors; that is why they call it "practicing medicine."

[micmichd]

Lol.

There's severe superstition in some European countries, some call it church, some call it psychiatry.

I know a lady who officially never existed (according to Farang 'experts') Yet she travelled by aircraft lot, people in Germany said she 'bewitched' Farangs. So, that's witchcraft, isn't it?

[kannot]

I think it would be unscientific to discard all superstitions, medicines and poultices just out-of-hand.

Not only unscientific, but unrealistic to discard all we do not understand. I used to suffer migraines. In the '70's in the PI, I suffered the worst migraine attack I'd ever had. My gf brought in a Kepwing--a witch doctor. He built a fire and burned some foul smelling material, prepared a paste of various plants and roots, and brewed a tea, of sorts. I inhaled the smoke, drank the tea and he chanted while he rubbed my hands and temples with the paste, placed shark's teeth between the webs of my fingers, and wrapped my head and hands in leaf fiber. I passed-out. When I awoke the next morning, my headache was gone. Knock on wood, I have not had a recurrence of migraine since then, almost 40 years. Did he cure me? Was it coincidence? I do not know, but I will certainly not discount what I do not know. I think there is an element of the unknown with all medicines and all doctors; that is why they call it "practicing medicine."

Its one thing to disregard something but another to accept it as "blind faith" with zero supporting evidence

[northernphil]

My Thai wife had a red spot inside her ear, was driving her mad , tried potions from the hospital then more from a Chinese pharmacy. The last thing she tried was an idea from a local Burmese lady . She got a tube of what looked like cinamon there was a dried leaf inside this tube. The Burmese lady lit it and blew the smoke in TW's ear. She said I hope it works I said the smoke is coming out the other ear , nothing in the way to stop it. Anyway she said it worked, but like other weird crap, a lot of it is the body can heal a lot of things on its own.

[micmichd]

My Thai wife had a red spot inside her ear, was driving her mad , tried potions from the hospital then more from a Chinese pharmacy. The last thing she tried was an idea from a local Burmese lady . She got a tube of what looked like cinamon there was a dried leaf inside this tube. The Burmese lady lit it and blew the smoke in TW's ear. She said I hope it works I said the smoke is coming out the other ear , nothing in the way to stop it. Anyway she said it worked, but like other weird crap, a lot of it is the body can heal a lot of things on its own.

Yes, it's true. Too many pharmas and scalpels in Western medicine. I would be a cripple by now if I would have followed their advices.

Edited July 21, 2015 by micmichd

[dcpo]

My Thai wife had a red spot inside her ear, was driving her mad , tried potions from the hospital then more from a Chinese pharmacy. The last thing she tried was an idea from a local Burmese lady . She got a tube of what looked like cinamon there was a dried leaf inside this tube. The Burmese lady lit it and blew the smoke in TW's ear. She said I hope it works I said the smoke is coming out the other ear , nothing in the way to stop it. Anyway she said it worked, but like other weird crap, a lot of it is the body can heal a lot of things on its own.

Most minor things clear up on their own or through unrelated changes of circumstances. If you happen to be trying a cure at the same time the thing clears up then it will appear to you that the cure worked. Once you have the idea that it works then you'll be much more receptive to evidence that confirms this belief (confirmation bias). Scientists use rigorous testing procedures for a reason, and even then the results are far from perfect. A lot of people believe that science is prone to incorrectly rejecting alternative hypothesis, but actually the reverse is more often true in many fields. It's actually a documented problem in the medical literature. The way publication works means that the scientific literature is more likely to give an unrealistically high appraisal of the efficacy of a treatment than to underplay it.

[Thakkar]

I am wary of superstition. I avoid it as I believe it brings bad luck.

T

[micmichd]

Then there's something wrong with medical science.

Maybe too much medical research is sponsored by pharma industry.

Where are the (longitudinal) studies on those who explicitly refused a suggested medical treatment? Never seen any.

[dcpo]

Then there's something wrong with medical science.

Maybe too much medical research is sponsored by pharma industry.

Where are the (longitudinal) studies on those who explicitly refused a suggested medical treatment? Never seen any.

One root of the issue isn't necessarily overt corruption but that negative results are less likely to be considered interesting enough to be published, and so there is a bias towards positive results in the published literature. Corruption plays a roll when negative results aren't sent to journals, and yes, medical research sponsored by the pharmaceutical industry can be guilty of this.

As for the second point, there is a huge amount of research on people who do not receive treatment. Every worthwhile study will have a control of some sort.

[chrisinth]

Just because something hasn't happened to me, or I haven't witnessed it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

I treat superstition like I treat advice, I will willingly listen to it all and then decide what to retain and what to discard.

Works for me, and generally you don't upset too many people by calling them stupid...........................

[chrisinth]

There is a very good reason to why there is a distinction between "modern/western medicine" and "everything else".

People can believe what they want but believing things like "avoiding certain people" will do you any good or bad is just plain ignorant. And i use ignorant lightly as stronger words aren't allowed on this forum.

Unless they are lepers.

If you're not feeling too good, the last thing you need is a lot of lepers running about. Not that you would get infected, but not nice.

Sometimes the country cures have some things going for them..................................

Yes and then it's very soon called "modern/western medicine".

But just ask 100 random thai people questions about basic knowledge about sickness, fever etc and you'll get atleast 98 superstitious answers such as "oh you get sick if you stand in the rain" or outright stupid and dangerous (in the long run) answers such as "go to the doctor/pharmacy and get antibiotics against that fever".

Yep, see where you are coming from.

[Thakkar]

There's a lot of talk on this thread about having an open mind. I pride myself in having one. That is why I have never stopped learning and am happy to discard previously held beliefs, if warranted.

I think people misunderstand what it means to "have an open mind"

It means being open to new logic and new evidence and a willingness to change one's stance *in light of* any new evidence or more compelling logic.

It doesn't mean to be accepting of all kinds of unproven nonsense.

T

[Thakkar]

Herbal medicine has been around for thousands of years, and indeed it has. Scientists tested a lot of it, and the stuff that worked became "medicine." :

T

[micmichd]

Then there's something wrong with medical science.

Maybe too much medical research is sponsored by pharma industry.

Where are the (longitudinal) studies on those who explicitly refused a suggested medical treatment? Never seen any.

One root of the issue isn't necessarily overt corruption but that negative results are less likely to be considered interesting enough to be published, and so there is a bias towards positive results in the published literature. Corruption plays a roll when negative results aren't sent to journals, and yes, medical research sponsored by the pharmaceutical industry can be guilty of this.

As for the second point, there is a huge amount of research on people who do not receive treatment. Every worthwhile study will have a control of some sort.

OK, any studies about self-healing of

1. severe fire injuries without skin transplantation,

2. severe gonarthrosis without an "artificial knee joint",

3. some "mental issues" where even the diagnosis had to be "readjusted (without any psychotherapy whatsoever)?

The latter being probably a case of PTSD induced by hospital.

As far as I know, the phenomenon of "salutogenesis" was studied first on survivors from concentration camps in Germany.

Edited July 21, 2015 by micmichd

[sawadee1947]

You haven't been in Thailand very long have you? Despite the fact that Thailand claims to be mainly Buddhist the dominant set of beliefs here is animism. It pervadres everything from birth to death.

I think you are mixing up animism and superstition.

Thai Buddhism is a mixture of Hinduism, Animism and Fetishism, and Budddhism

also it's mixed with superstition and sometimes a kind of voodoo in some areas. Strange for us

[SOTIRIOS]

..the term is 'black magic'....

...and many Thais 'consult it'...supposedly even some very big names...you guess.....

...basically.....'sell your soul for whatever it is you want'......

...you can always apologize if caught in the wrong....and do it over again in the next life.....

...simplistic..opportunistic....

...people hide behind calling it a religion....

...that makes it all okay....

[micmichd]

Not so strange if you consider some Western habits, like the sacred communion where they drink their god's blood and eat His flesh.

Many years ago, when I was in Benares (India), had to pee. Looking for a discrete place, I found a tree to pee at. A man came running out from a house and shouted at me "You're not going to pee on my father, are you?"

Then later I was told that his father was buried under the tree.

Honestly: You wouldn't like anyone to pee on your father's grave, would you?

I could list all kinds of Farang superstitions, starting with the black cat crossing, to no. 13, etc etc.

Then, witchcraft is probably the way of transportation or communication for the outcasts, isn't it?

And who are the outcasts for Farang societies?

[slipperylobster]

errrrrrr. anyone got a lucky lotto number from a dead relative in their dream last night?

Hoping to pick the right tree to pee on....it might rinse the bark off and I could possible find a hidden number.

Edited July 21, 2015 by slipperylobster

[Mudcrab]

I often use the ancient Aboriginal practice of "pointing the bone". Gets great results around Nana and Soi Cowboy and relieves tension rapidly.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Mudcrab

[MW72]

Credible? I find it incredible you need to ask.

If any of these alternative therapies work then scientists test them, prove them, make medicines out of them and make money out of them. They are then known as medicines. Until they have been tested and scientifically proven to work then who knows. The ones that have been scientifically tested and proven not to work are superstitious nonsense, old wives tales, mumbo jumbo etc.

[micmichd]

Credible? I find it incredible you need to ask.

If any of these alternative therapies work then scientists test them, prove them, make medicines out of them and make money out of them. They are then known as medicines. Until they have been tested and scientifically proven to work then who knows. The ones that have been scientifically tested and proven not to work are superstitious nonsense, old wives tales, mumbo jumbo etc.

There's a big gap: The medicines / therapies on which they can't get a patent. These are simply not even considered worth testing. Edited July 21, 2015 by micmichd

[Berkshire]

Not so strange if you consider some Western habits, like the sacred communion where they drink their god's blood and eat His flesh.

Many years ago, when I was in Benares (India), had to pee. Looking for a discrete place, I found a tree to pee at. A man came running out from a house and shouted at me "You're not going to pee on my father, are you?"

Then later I was told that his father was buried under the tree.

Honestly: You wouldn't like anyone to pee on your father's grave, would you?

I could list all kinds of Farang superstitions, starting with the black cat crossing, to no. 13, etc etc.

Then, witchcraft is probably the way of transportation or communication for the outcasts, isn't it?

And who are the outcasts for Farang societies?

Agree. What the OP calls superstition/witchcraft is no different than western religion. Does the OP consider Christianity superstition/witchcraft? Well why not? Then there's Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. And the broken mirror. And the walking under a ladder. Etc., etc. Every culture has their own silliness. I'm a science guy myself, so it's all the same to me.

[SoiBiker]

There is a very good reason to why there is a distinction between "modern/western medicine" and "everything else".

People can believe what they want but believing things like "avoiding certain people" will do you any good or bad is just plain ignorant. And i use ignorant lightly as stronger words aren't allowed on this forum.

Open your mind dude.

People like you

used to laugh hen others suggested the world was round.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth