Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[JLCrab]

I've been saying since late December that Brit authorities are complicit in the cover-up. Late December was when the Brit Coroner changed her mind and nixed her prior promise to release the Coroner's report on January 6. When she cancelled, she said, "maybe October, I don't know."

They judge who made the recent decision to deny info to the defense is right to feel uneasy (as he says). He should feel as bad as a person should feel who is contributing to the skewed trial which may lead to a death sentence for two young poor men who are likely innocent. Shame on him and all others who are too cowed to stand up for what's right.

That Headman sure has some reach, doesn't he?

[webfact]

Men accused of killing British tourists in Thailand refused access to Met report
Burmese pair lose high court attempt to view Scotland Yard report into Thai investigation of murders of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge
By Jamie Grierson

LONDON: -- Two Burmese men accused of the murder of two British tourists in Thailand in September 2014 have lost a high court challenge that sought access to a secret report by Scotland Yard on the Thai police investigation into their alleged crimes.

Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo – also known as Win Zaw Htun – are standing trial on the island of Koh Samui for the murder of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, and face the death penalty if convicted.

Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo brought a legal challenge at the high court in London after the Metropolitan police refused to hand over a report they had compiled on the Royal Thai police investigation on the understanding it would never be published.

High court judge Mr Justice Green rejected the men’s application on Tuesday after hearing arguments from Scotland Yard that breaking the confidentiality agreement with the Thai authorities would damage international cooperation. He said he had concluded that there was nothing of real value to the men in the report or of “material assistance” to their defence, but added he had felt unease when reaching his findings.

The judgment, which cannot be appealed against, will come as a severe blow to Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo – both restaurant workers – who have claimed they were tortured into confessing to the murders and who will open their defence case shortly.

Zoe Bedford, a lawyer at human rights charity Reprieve, which brought the case on behalf of the defendants, questioned the judge’s conclusion that there was nothing of value to the men in the Met report. “If justice is to be done, it is essential that the UK authorities do everything in their power to ensure that these men have a fair trial – including disclosing all material that could be of relevance to the case,” she said.

Full story: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/25/men-accused-killing-british-tourists-thailand-met-report-zaw-lin-wai-phyo-miller-witheridge

-- The Guardian 2015-08-26

[IslandLover]

And now the thread becomes derailed by a certain posters leading us off down fruitless paths about non-points. Lets terminate this nonsense about migrant wages and why they don't leave the island.

The irony is that quite a few from the Burmese community are reported to have fled the island after the murders due to the persecution by the RTP.

[IslandLover]

So you are saying that maybe he was really on a gambling junket to Macao that evening? He says he knows the kid on sight and did not see him that evening while he was there and did not notice any altercation while he was there.

He also says "DoDo" would have come and said hello, Implying that he is at least an acquaintance of "DoDo"s..... So I'll take his post with a pinch of salt.

So where were you that evening? If he didn't know the kid on sight, how would he be able to say that during the time he was there, he didn't see the kid?

If I wanted I could create another profile on here, and claim I was in the AC bar that night and I didn't see Dodo either. How would you know the difference?

The person also said in their post "on the rare occasions Dodo comes down from Bangkok .....". Something doesn't quite ring true there. Dodo is quite the party animal on Koh Tao by all accounts.

Edited August 25, 2015 by IslandLover

[smedly]

mmmm latest news from the UK

Thailand tourist murders: Accused men's bid to access Met report rejected

The men accused of the murder of two British tourists on the island of Koh Tao in Thailand have failed in a High Court bid in London to gain access to a confidential report prepared by the Metropolitan Police.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/thailand-tourist-murders-accused-mens-bid-access-met-124942675.html#CaNq2bP

The solicitors have been trying to get this for months. Shame on the British justice system thats complicit in fitting people up.

So now the British are in on the cover up? Come on. A British judge read it and decided it would not benefit the defendants' case.

"There is nothing in the report which is exculpatory or would be of material assistance to the claimants in the operation of their defence in the course of the trial."

Their lawyer, while disappointed, said "But they are reassured that at least a British judge has now looked at the information held by the Metropolitan Police, applying anxious scrutiny, and determined that it would not assist them in their ongoing proceedings in Thailand."

The conclusion from the judge is completely in line with has been known for almost a year based on statements from the family regarding the strength of the case against the men on trial.

I wonder if this was the big break the defense was expecting from the UK.

you really are a piece of work - the judges conclusion would have been based solely on what he saw in the report, the victims family would have had absolutely zero impact or influence on his decision

and unless the victims family are all legal experts they would have had no basis to make such an assertion, I wonder what their thoughts are now

[JLCrab]

I have also read that The Kid is quite the rock star on Koh Tao but others on here say that it is quite possible that he was there that evening and nobody noticed him which is why no one has ever come forward to say they saw him that evening which doesn't much ring true either when they assume at least for that evening he musta been some kind of wall flower.

[IslandLover]

mmmm latest news from the UK

Thailand tourist murders: Accused men's bid to access Met report rejected

The men accused of the murder of two British tourists on the island of Koh Tao in Thailand have failed in a High Court bid in London to gain access to a confidential report prepared by the Metropolitan Police.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/thailand-tourist-murders-accused-mens-bid-access-met-124942675.html#CaNq2bP

From the above report:

The report was prepared to reassure the victims' families about the investigation conducted by the Thai authorities into the deaths.

So in other words, the Met just relayed to the victims' families what had been fed to them by the RTP.

The judge appears to confirm this when he says:

"There is nothing in the report which is exculpatory or would be of material assistance to the claimants in the operation of their defence in the course of the trial."

Edited August 25, 2015 by IslandLover

[IslandLover]

My question is

What international cooperation between police forces is he talking about. There was no international cooperation, the RTP let them look at a selective minority of evidence.

My guess at this is that the UK police would get embarrassed if the report was made public.

They made a public statement when they returned to the UK on BBC radio 2 and said that the evidence they saw was confusing and contradictory and questioned whether the B2 were guilty. Aside from the confusing select evidence presented to them the report may well say this in harsher terms with no mincing of words.

Like

[StealthEnergiser]

mmmm latest news from the UK

Thailand tourist murders: Accused men's bid to access Met report rejected

The men accused of the murder of two British tourists on the island of Koh Tao in Thailand have failed in a High Court bid in London to gain access to a confidential report prepared by the Metropolitan Police.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/thailand-tourist-murders-accused-mens-bid-access-met-124942675.html#CaNq2bP

From the above report:

The report was prepared to reassure the victims' families about the investigation conducted by the Thai authorities into the deaths.

So in other words, the Met just relayed to the victims' families what had been fed to them by the RTP.

The judge appears to confirm this when he says:

"There is nothing in the report which is exculpatory or would be of material assistance to the claimants in the operation of their defence in the course of the trial."

Not good holding things back like this but I don't think the defence need it to prove shoddy police work that's been done all ready .

Maybe it is an embarresment to the MET and they did agree with RTP saying the investigation was perfect, but if feel if it was a straight forward report it would have been released.

If they were holding DNA or autopsy reports and the b2 were sentenced that would be real disgrace and laws should be in place for that so it never happens.

[Briggsy]

UK police rely regularly on Thai police to carry out arrest of UK fugitives living in Thailand. UK provide all info and have liaison officers here but arrests must be carried out by Thai police.

[Charlie Croker]

For justice to be done, justice must also seen to be done.

Btw whoever on TV decided to stream every Single story in this case into a single thread should try finding details amongst all the detritus.

This is the biggest criminal case of the year with daily updates, how could you be so naive?

[spidermike007]

Because they need the work and they do jobs that are "beneath" Thais..... Why? Does the presence of Burmese in Thailand bother you, Tony? Why might that be....

Could you maybe share with is why you're prejudiced against Burmese folks? You're basically saying it's more likely the B2 commited the crime strictly because they're Burmese. Sounds Thai to me.

Now, why do you think there is so much controversie surrounding this case.... Could it be the "Mafia"

Element, maybe the fact that DoDo (lol) and Mon were the very first suspects until police got wind of what was happening and switched the commander mid investigation while the whole world was watching?

Panya Mamen would NOT accuse them on zero evidence, From that very point on its been quite obvious the case and investigation are a complete cock up.

You are sticking up for just 2 Burmese people or 4 if you include the parents, I am sticking up for all the 4000 Burmese on Koh Tao by saying that they would want to leave the island if NS did it.

If everyone wanted the case covered up why send Panya down to find the Truth ? why not just send another corrupt policemen and say go find me some Burmese scapegoats ?

Jobs that are beneath thais ? its obvious you don't think much of Thai People. what do you think all Thai people are doing working high well paid jobs ?

I have Thai family members, actually I have a Thai child so no I dont look down on Thais.

You've demonstrated how clueless you are on several points and it's obvious now you post to derail the thread. NS wouldn't aknowldge a Burmese much less rape one... So why would the Burmese flee Tao? They stay there because they can make more money there than back home, same as Mexicans where I'm from who work in the states and send back home. You're trying really hard to find an angle to keep the headmans people out of the discussion.... Not surprising. So, Tony why did the police accuse Mon and Nomsod?

Mon and Nomsod are guilty as the day is long. The police know it. The army knows it. Nearly everyone on Dark Tao knows it. Nearly everyone overseas knows it. It is only the police and the court that will not acknowledge it. As I have said many times in the past, his family is well above the law. Nobody will touch him. Not even Little P. The real question is, how many times has Nomsod done it before, and gotten away with it? This would never happen on Samui, as the families there maintain alot of discipline within the ranks. But, Dark Tao is a lawless land unto itself. Best we can all do is to never set foot on that cesspool island again, and therefore deny those five heinous families a livelihood, as best we can.

[Crash999]

The parents of the victims have seen the reports yet haven't come out in support of the defendants.

[brewsterbudgen]

For justice to be done, justice must also seen to be done.

Btw whoever on TV decided to stream every Single story in this case into a single thread should try finding details amongst all the detritus.

This is the biggest criminal case of the year with daily updates, how could you be so naive?

That's a bit of stretch, unless you're referring to the foreign media. In any case the recent massacre of 20 people in central Bangkok is a bigger story.

Edited August 26, 2015 by metisdead
2. Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording. Such posts will be deleted and the user warned.

[Linky]

The parents of the victims have seen the reports yet haven't come out in support of the defendants.

Could you please provide a link yo indicate they have seen the actual report?

If that is true it is against the interests of justice they have been provided information and defence have been denied. I have heard of such a thing, in the real world.

[boomerangutang]

Gwieloman

Thanks for the link, ,hadnt read that. Just one query regarding this, what about the statement from the French girls who heard screams coming from the beach ? If this crime were committed in the guesthouse and the bodies transferred to the beach there would be no screams heard. Let me know your thoughts on this. Would love to get to the bottom of this crime, but sadly seems impossible.

That "account" is a complete fabrication, you don't need to look further than the fact that both victims were sharing rooms with friends to have it debunked.

It's interesting/telling that any potential leads which may wind up implicating anyone connected to the H's family are discounted 100% by you. When you started posting on this topic, nearly a year ago, you kept shooting other posters down saying 'that's not a fact. You must only enter facts on this forum.' Of course that not valid, as the forum is set up to allow opinions and suppositions. Now you, AleG, are shooting down a theory for some nebulous reason ('...both victims were sharing rooms with friends...' ?). Perhaps the theory of the French girls is off base. On the other hand it may provide useful clues. It's the job of professional investigators to pursue all leads which could shed light on what really happened at the crime, and who are the perps. AleG, you'd fit right in with RTP investigators. Similar to how they didn't even look at potentially crucial CCTV footage of small boats leaving the island right after the crime ("we didn't think it was important") - you'all could disregard any leads and evidence which didn't dovetail with framing Burmese migrants - while continuing to shield anyone connected to the Headman.

[razer]

Something is terribly wrong with any justice when the prosecution is allowed to hide or suppress evidence.

[AleG]

So now the British are in on the cover up? Come on. A British judge read it and decided it would not benefit the defendants' case.

"There is nothing in the report which is exculpatory or would be of material assistance to the claimants in the operation of their defence in the course of the trial."

Their lawyer, while disappointed, said "But they are reassured that at least a British judge has now looked at the information held by the Metropolitan Police, applying anxious scrutiny, and determined that it would not assist them in their ongoing proceedings in Thailand."

The conclusion from the judge is completely in line with has been known for almost a year based on statements from the family regarding the strength of the case against the men on trial.

I wonder if this was the big break the defense was expecting from the UK.

Nope it was not the break as they hadn't had it had they!!!..

This has been in the system since last year and in the end the solicitor took it to the high court as the Met wouldn't hand it over.

Its a side show and of no importance other than to clarify what they told the family. The police has already issued a statement to say the evidence is weak and it was broadcast on the link about posted by another TVF member.

May I remind you that if a case was in trial in the UK and anyone published such a statement then they would be hauled into court and jailed for contempt. This is the argument why publish this statement when its in trial. its Bad ethics.

You, and the people you are working with, seem to have spent a lot of effort and time on that sideshow.

Now it's not important, doesn't matter, right.

Incidentally, I wonder what would happen to someone in the UK if they accused a judge of being complicit in the cover-up of a murder?

Besides that, you are misrepresenting the contents of a 20 second statement from the police, they never said the evidence against the men on trial is weak, they said, and I quote "The Metropolitan Police says there's confusion and inconsistencies in the investigation in Thailand into the murder of two British tourists on the island of Koh Tao; Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were killed in September. Scotland Yard, which is observing the Thai enquiry, says there are questions about the strength of the case against the two men from Burma charged with murder."

That there are questions about the strength of the case doesn't mean that the answer to those questions is that the evidence is weak; it means that there's people, like you, that question it.

[Linky]

So now the British are in on the cover up? Come on. A British judge read it and decided it would not benefit the defendants' case.

"There is nothing in the report which is exculpatory or would be of material assistance to the claimants in the operation of their defence in the course of the trial."

Their lawyer, while disappointed, said "But they are reassured that at least a British judge has now looked at the information held by the Metropolitan Police, applying anxious scrutiny, and determined that it would not assist them in their ongoing proceedings in Thailand."

The conclusion from the judge is completely in line with has been known for almost a year based on statements from the family regarding the strength of the case against the men on trial.

I wonder if this was the big break the defense was expecting from the UK.

Nope it was not the break as they hadn't had it had they!!!..

This has been in the system since last year and in the end the solicitor took it to the high court as the Met wouldn't hand it over.

Its a side show and of no importance other than to clarify what they told the family. The police has already issued a statement to say the evidence is weak and it was broadcast on the link about posted by another TVF member.

May I remind you that if a case was in trial in the UK and anyone published such a statement then they would be hauled into court and jailed for contempt. This is the argument why publish this statement when its in trial. its Bad ethics.

You, and the people you are working with, seem to have spent a lot of effort and time on that sideshow.

Now it's not important, doesn't matter, right.

Incidentally, I wonder what would happen to someone in the UK if they accused a judge of being complicit in the cover-up of a murder?

Besides that, you are misrepresenting the contents of a 20 second statement from the police, they never said the evidence against the men on trial is weak, they said, and I quote "The Metropolitan Police says there's confusion and inconsistencies in the investigation in Thailand into the murder of two British tourists on the island of Koh Tao; Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were killed in September. Scotland Yard, which is observing the Thai enquiry, says there are questions about the strength of the case against the two men from Burma charged with murder."

That there are questions about the strength of the case doesn't mean that the answer to those questions is that the evidence is weak; it means that there's people, like you, that question it.

No, it means that the evidence provided to the court is weak. That is a proven fact.

[AleG]

Gwieloman

Thanks for the link, ,hadnt read that. Just one query regarding this, what about the statement from the French girls who heard screams coming from the beach ? If this crime were committed in the guesthouse and the bodies transferred to the beach there would be no screams heard. Let me know your thoughts on this. Would love to get to the bottom of this crime, but sadly seems impossible.

That "account" is a complete fabrication, you don't need to look further than the fact that both victims were sharing rooms with friends to have it debunked.

It's interesting/telling that any potential leads which may wind up implicating anyone connected to the H's family are discounted 100% by you. When you started posting on this topic, nearly a year ago, you kept shooting other posters down saying 'that's not a fact. You must only enter facts on this forum.' Of course that not valid, as the forum is set up to allow opinions and suppositions. Now you, AleG, are shooting down a theory for some nebulous reason ('...both victims were sharing rooms with friends...' ?). Perhaps the theory of the French girls is off base. On the other hand it may provide useful clues. It's the job of professional investigators to pursue all leads which could shed light on what really happened at the crime, and who are the perps. AleG, you'd fit right in with RTP investigators. Similar to how they didn't even look at potentially crucial CCTV footage of small boats leaving the island right after the crime ("we didn't think it was important") - you'all could disregard any leads and evidence which didn't dovetail with framing Burmese migrants - while continuing to shield anyone connected to the Headman.

The "theory" that the brutal murder and rape happened after they went back to their lodgings, which they shared with friends who failed to notice any commotion is so absurd that it would only be considered by people that have abandoned any pretense of intellectual honesty.

[allan michaud]

Disgusting but to be expected as this is not the first time my compatriots have refused for the same flimsy excuse.

[MockingJay]

Court proceedings in Thailand are nothing short of scenes from a Monty Python movie...

[AleG]

You, and the people you are working with, seem to have spent a lot of effort and time on that sideshow.

Now it's not important, doesn't matter, right.

Incidentally, I wonder what would happen to someone in the UK if they accused a judge of being complicit in the cover-up of a murder?

Besides that, you are misrepresenting the contents of a 20 second statement from the police, they never said the evidence against the men on trial is weak, they said, and I quote "The Metropolitan Police says there's confusion and inconsistencies in the investigation in Thailand into the murder of two British tourists on the island of Koh Tao; Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were killed in September. Scotland Yard, which is observing the Thai enquiry, says there are questions about the strength of the case against the two men from Burma charged with murder."

That there are questions about the strength of the case doesn't mean that the answer to those questions is that the evidence is weak; it means that there's people, like you, that question it.

No, it means that the evidence provided to the court is weak. That is a proven fact.

They released that statement over six months before the beginning of the trial, the prosecution hasn't even finished presenting the evidence to the court as of now; so how could they had made a statement against something that haven't happened yet?

Geez...

[boomerangutang]

Gwieloman

Thanks for the link, ,hadnt read that. Just one query regarding this, what about the statement from the French girls who heard screams coming from the beach ? If this crime were committed in the guesthouse and the bodies transferred to the beach there would be no screams heard. Let me know your thoughts on this. Would love to get to the bottom of this crime, but sadly seems impossible.

That "account" is a complete fabrication, you don't need to look further than the fact that both victims were sharing rooms with friends to have it debunked.

It's interesting/telling that any potential leads which may wind up implicating anyone connected to the H's family are discounted 100% by you. When you started posting on this topic, nearly a year ago, you kept shooting other posters down saying 'that's not a fact. You must only enter facts on this forum.' Of course that not valid, as the forum is set up to allow opinions and suppositions. Now you, AleG, are shooting down a theory for some nebulous reason ('...both victims were sharing rooms with friends...' ?). Perhaps the theory of the French girls is off base. On the other hand it may provide useful clues. It's the job of professional investigators to pursue all leads which could shed light on what really happened at the crime, and who are the perps. AleG, you'd fit right in with RTP investigators. Similar to how they didn't even look at potentially crucial CCTV footage of small boats leaving the island right after the crime ("we didn't think it was important") - you'all could disregard any leads and evidence which didn't dovetail with framing Burmese migrants - while continuing to shield anyone connected to the Headman.

The "theory" that the brutal murder and rape happened after they went back to their lodgings, which they shared with friends who failed to notice any commotion is so absurd that it would only be considered by people that have abandoned any pretense of intellectual honesty.

I'm sorry, I don't know what you're referring to. I made a reference to the possibility that two French girls may have heard some disturbing sounds - which might be useful as evidence in solving the crime. I was also concerned, in a general sense, how RTP consistently and bull-headedly DON"T follow leads - if those leads might implicate any of the H's people.

[FangFerang]

If I ever had a shred of doubt that the case was a frame job, it is now entirely gone.

"but added he had felt unease when reaching his findings"

This is a moral and legal outrage.

I protest.

VEHEMENTLY.

[boomerangutang]

Court proceedings in Thailand are nothing short of scenes from a Monty Python movie...

It's been odd when chief investigators take the stand, and repeatedly say "I don't know." Similar to the US, where defendants "invoke the 5th" which is a reference to US's 5th Amendment which protects a person from 'self-incrimination'. In other words, a person (or that person's spouse) cannot be compelled to say anything in court which could incriminate himself/herself.

Maybe RTP have been watching too many movies, but obfuscating evidence is not what prosecution witnesses are supposed to do. They're supposed to present evidence and ascertain its validity. RTP detectives were acting like defendants with much to hide, by repeatedly saying 'I don't know.'

[smedly]

You, and the people you are working with, seem to have spent a lot of effort and time on that sideshow.

Now it's not important, doesn't matter, right.

Incidentally, I wonder what would happen to someone in the UK if they accused a judge of being complicit in the cover-up of a murder?

Besides that, you are misrepresenting the contents of a 20 second statement from the police, they never said the evidence against the men on trial is weak, they said, and I quote "The Metropolitan Police says there's confusion and inconsistencies in the investigation in Thailand into the murder of two British tourists on the island of Koh Tao; Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were killed in September. Scotland Yard, which is observing the Thai enquiry, says there are questions about the strength of the case against the two men from Burma charged with murder."

That there are questions about the strength of the case doesn't mean that the answer to those questions is that the evidence is weak; it means that there's people, like you, that question it.

No, it means that the evidence provided to the court is weak. That is a proven fact.

They released that statement over six months before the beginning of the trial, the prosecution hasn't even finished presenting the evidence to the court as of now; so how could they had made a statement against something that haven't happened yet?

Geez...

because professional police observed how the Thai police were throwing together what we have now mostly seen and called it into question, there was little they could say in reality but if you are smart enough you can join up the dots, like I have said continually - there is nothing the Thai police have presented so far that would have made it past the front gate of a western court, it really is as simple as that, in fact it is so very obviously bad that smart people here on this forum can't figure out why you don't see it and keep defending this very obvious farce, you are either cognitively challenged - a troll - have divisive motives or a mix of all three

[Transporter]

Kunmatt: You are a lowlife as far as I can see.

Thankyou for trying to understand my opinion about this tragc case. I will never call you lowlife. You are much better than me.

Have a nice evening Khun Matt and sweet dreams.

Balo and Matt, You are both obviously very passionate about this case and rightly so but rather than waste your time bickering with each other, why don't you get together and start your own private investigation company and solve this crime and many others?

[Borzandy]

the brilliant non justice in LOS.

[smedly]

Court proceedings in Thailand are nothing short of scenes from a Monty Python movie...

It's been odd when chief investigators take the stand, and repeatedly say "I don't know." Similar to the US, where defendants "invoke the 5th" which is a reference to US's 5th Amendment which protects a person from 'self-incrimination'. In other words, a person (or that person's spouse) cannot be compelled to say anything in court which could incriminate himself/herself.

Maybe RTP have been watching too many movies, but obfuscating evidence is not what prosecution witnesses are supposed to do. They're supposed to present evidence and ascertain its validity. RTP detectives were acting like defendants with much to hide, by repeatedly saying 'I don't know.'

correct, prosecution does not build a case to convict someone by saying "I don't know" to questions they should very obviously be able to answer, if I had been one of the Judges I'd have completely lost it and told them to come back when they had the answers or the trial would be dismissed without any chance of appeal