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US is now averaging more than one mass shooting per day in 2015


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Posted

14 pages of uncensored US bashing....if this was a ladyboy attack in Pattaya the powers to be would have closed it down by now. smile.png

Nobody is US bashing mate (hence why the thread has not been closed)

the second amendment is just a very poor law, that affects many people, and many people obviously feel strongly about it.

the wikipedia link above shows that the US has the highest homicide rate per 100,000 people in all of the developed world.

surely americans must worry about this, and want change?!

Posted

Sorry but you don't know how to use the quote function (or can't). I write and you quote and respond (normal Thai Visa forum procedure). Your style is too confusing for me to follow and I don't want to. Change your posts to be legible and in order listing who wrote what and I'll be happy to respond.wai2.gif

Nice cop out.

T

Posted

In the American gun debate, the NRA is at the fulcrum. So I thought it might help to understand a little of the history of this organisation.

From its earliest days in 1871, up until the mid 1970s, the NRA, was all in favour of gun controls. In fact they helped draft much of the gun control legislation of the day. State gun control laws were not controversialthey were the norm. Within a generation of the countrys founding, many states passed laws banning any citizen from carrying a concealed gun. The cowboy towns that Hollywood lionized as the Wild West actually required all guns be turned in to sheriffs while people were within local city limits. Over the years, ever more and stricter gun laws were added with the support of the NRA and, in some cases, even proposed by the NRA.

As late as 1967 (and beyond), the Right's darling, Ronald Reagan, was a gun control advocate: In May 1967, two dozen Black Panther Party members walked into the California Statehouse carrying rifles to protest a gun-control bill, prompting then-Gov. Ronald Reagan to comment, Theres no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons.

The constitutional argument that gun advocates and the NRA use today actually originated with Malcolm X and The Black Panthers.

After the mid 1970s, a coup within the NRA changed everything. It was led by a former fired executive, Harlon Carter who, in his youth, had confronted and shot a Mexican teenager whom he accused of stealing his car. Carter's subsequent conviction and prison sentence was later overturned on self defense grounds. There is some mystery surrounding this and some say it was related to his father's position in the Texas Border Guards. Years later, Carter led a massive crackdown on Mexican immigrant laborers called "Operation Wetback" in which he scammed them out of all their earnings before deporting them.

Carter had actively hidden this past until it was revealed in an article that appeared after his reelection as NRA chief in 1981. The revelation didn't harm his prospects and may even have endeared him to the new radical NRA top tier.

After the boardroom coup of the mid 1970s, Carter became NRA CEO and changed the organizations motto on its DC headquarters, selectively editing the Second Amendment to reflect a non-compromising militancy, The Right Of The People To Keep And Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed. Also, the NRA ramped up donations to congressional campaigns. And in 1977, new articles on the Second Amendment appeared in American Rifleman, rewriting American history to legitimize the armed citizen unregulated except by his own ability to buy a gun at whatever price he could afford.

So the origins of today's NRA begin with a racist, scheming, murdering, thieving liar. That explains a lot.

The NRAs fabricated but escalating view of the Second Amendment was ridiculed by former U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren Burgera conservative appointed by President Richard Nixonin a PBS Newshour interview in 1991, where he called it one of the greatest pieces of fraudI repeat the word fraudon the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.

Burger would not have imagined that the U.S. Supreme Court in 200813 years after he diedled by libertarian activist Justice Antonin Scaliawould enshrine that fraud into the highest echelon of American law by decreeing that the Second Amendment included the right to own a gun for self-protection in ones home.

The above info was variously gleaned from several articles, but especially

www.salon.com/2013/01/14/the_nra_once_supported_gun_control/

And

http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2013/01/black_panthers_and_gun_control_the_nras_flip_flop.html

And

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/13457-from-operation-wetback-to-newtown-tracing-the-hick-fascism-of-the-nra

T

Posted

14 pages of uncensored US bashing....if this was a ladyboy attack in Pattaya the powers to be would have closed it down by now. smile.png

Nobody is US bashing mate (hence why the thread has not been closed)

the second amendment is just a very poor law, that affects many people, and many people obviously feel strongly about it.

the wikipedia link above shows that the US has the highest homicide rate per 100,000 people in all of the developed world.

surely americans must worry about this, and want change?!

A cross between Dr. Phil and Piers Morgan.

Posted

If you compare only white populations. The USA has about the same murder rate as Belgium. It is gangs and gang violence that give America such a bad rap and criminals don't care about gun laws.

Nice deflection lets take out part of our population to make the stats look nicer. Don't forget in Belgium they have a lot of foreigners too if you take them out of the equation you get again different figures.

Unbelievable that Americans can't acknowledge this huge egg on their face. What is so hard to say we are not perfect we have a problem. Nothing wrong with it but probably can't because of twisted patriotic love. I would not defend my country for its faults I accept them.

Posted

If you compare only white populations. The USA has about the same murder rate as Belgium. It is gangs and gang violence that give America such a bad rap and criminals don't care about gun laws.

Nice deflection lets take out part of our population to make the stats look nicer. Don't forget in Belgium they have a lot of foreigners too if you take them out of the equation you get again different figures.

Unbelievable that Americans can't acknowledge this huge egg on their face. What is so hard to say we are not perfect we have a problem. Nothing wrong with it but probably can't because of twisted patriotic love. I would not defend my country for its faults I accept them.

I would rather have egg on my face than be a uppity <deleted> like you.

Posted

14 pages of uncensored US bashing....if this was a ladyboy attack in Pattaya the powers to be would have closed it down by now. smile.png

Nobody is US bashing mate (hence why the thread has not been closed)

the second amendment is just a very poor law, that affects many people, and many people obviously feel strongly about it.

the wikipedia link above shows that the US has the highest homicide rate per 100,000 people in all of the developed world.

surely americans must worry about this, and want change?!

A cross between Dr. Phil and Piers Morgan.

Its not bashing at all its pointing out a problem based on facts. People don't like it one bit when their country looks bad. They twist and turn call it bashing. Its not hard to admit there is a problem. Can still remember Fox complaining about the drugs laws in the Netherlands now they make weed legal in the US. How the times have changed.

Posted

If you compare only white populations. The USA has about the same murder rate as Belgium. It is gangs and gang violence that give America such a bad rap and criminals don't care about gun laws.

Nice deflection lets take out part of our population to make the stats look nicer. Don't forget in Belgium they have a lot of foreigners too if you take them out of the equation you get again different figures.

Unbelievable that Americans can't acknowledge this huge egg on their face. What is so hard to say we are not perfect we have a problem. Nothing wrong with it but probably can't because of twisted patriotic love. I would not defend my country for its faults I accept them.

I would rather have egg on my face than be a uppity <deleted> like you.

Funny attack the poster not the facts good tactic.

Posted

14 pages of uncensored US bashing....if this was a ladyboy attack in Pattaya the powers to be would have closed it down by now. smile.png

Nobody is US bashing mate (hence why the thread has not been closed)

the second amendment is just a very poor law, that affects many people, and many people obviously feel strongly about it.

the wikipedia link above shows that the US has the highest homicide rate per 100,000 people in all of the developed world.

surely americans must worry about this, and want change?!

The law was written to keep the British out of America. I wold say except for a brief period during the 1960's and that unfortunate thing with Piers Morgan it's worked pretty well.

Posted (edited)

Nobody is US bashing mate (hence why the thread has not been closed)

the second amendment is just a very poor law, that affects many people, and many people obviously feel strongly about it.

the wikipedia link above shows that the US has the highest homicide rate per 100,000 people in all of the developed world.

surely americans must worry about this, and want change?!

A cross between Dr. Phil and Piers Morgan.

Its not bashing at all its pointing out a problem based on facts. People don't like it one bit when their country looks bad. They twist and turn call it bashing. Its not hard to admit there is a problem. Can still remember Fox complaining about the drugs laws in the Netherlands now they make weed legal in the US. How the times have changed.

It's a big problem. Americans are stupid, (profanity removed by Moderator)

Who says Americans are stupid, not me just say they have a problem and are not perfect just like the rest of us. You on the other hand have a problem, cant even post without cursing. Do you have anger issues ?

Edited by Sheryl
profanity
Posted

14 pages of uncensored US bashing....if this was a ladyboy attack in Pattaya the powers to be would have closed it down by now. smile.png

Nobody is US bashing mate (hence why the thread has not been closed)

the second amendment is just a very poor law, that affects many people, and many people obviously feel strongly about it.

the wikipedia link above shows that the US has the highest homicide rate per 100,000 people in all of the developed world.

surely americans must worry about this, and want change?!

A cross between Dr. Phil and Piers Morgan.

Its not bashing at all its pointing out a problem based on facts. People don't like it one bit when their country looks bad. They twist and turn call it bashing. Its not hard to admit there is a problem. Can still remember Fox complaining about the drugs laws in the Netherlands now they make weed legal in the US. How the times have changed.

Bashing is criticizing. It may be true or may be false; criticizing may still be properly be called bashing.

Posted

Nobody is US bashing mate (hence why the thread has not been closed)

the second amendment is just a very poor law, that affects many people, and many people obviously feel strongly about it.

the wikipedia link above shows that the US has the highest homicide rate per 100,000 people in all of the developed world.

surely americans must worry about this, and want change?!

A cross between Dr. Phil and Piers Morgan.

Its not bashing at all its pointing out a problem based on facts. People don't like it one bit when their country looks bad. They twist and turn call it bashing. Its not hard to admit there is a problem. Can still remember Fox complaining about the drugs laws in the Netherlands now they make weed legal in the US. How the times have changed.

Bashing is criticizing. It may be true or may be false; criticizing may still be properly be called bashing.

My mistake, never knew that one I always thought it was bashing when it was not based on something as bashing is so negative.

I see this as just a debate on the internet nothing more, bashing would be fabricating fact lying and doing whatever to discredit something.

But learn something new everyday.

Posted

A cross between Dr. Phil and Piers Morgan.

Its not bashing at all its pointing out a problem based on facts. People don't like it one bit when their country looks bad. They twist and turn call it bashing. Its not hard to admit there is a problem. Can still remember Fox complaining about the drugs laws in the Netherlands now they make weed legal in the US. How the times have changed.

It's a big problem. Americans are stupid, (profanity removed by Moderator)

Who says Americans are stupid, not me just say they have a problem and are not perfect just like the rest of us. You on the other hand have a problem, cant even post without cursing. Do you have anger issues ?

No.

Do have obsessive compulsive issues?

Posted

A cross between Dr. Phil and Piers Morgan.

Its not bashing at all its pointing out a problem based on facts. People don't like it one bit when their country looks bad. They twist and turn call it bashing. Its not hard to admit there is a problem. Can still remember Fox complaining about the drugs laws in the Netherlands now they make weed legal in the US. How the times have changed.

Bashing is criticizing. It may be true or may be false; criticizing may still be properly be called bashing.

My mistake, never knew that one I always thought it was bashing when it was not based on something as bashing is so negative.

I see this as just a debate on the internet nothing more, bashing would be fabricating fact lying and doing whatever to discredit something.

But learn something new everyday.

Americans want the bad guys disarmed and to stop gun crime in the USA. Crime is the operative word. No one that I know would mind discussing that.

The posters in this thread for the most part want to confiscate the guns from law abiding citizens and let them be killed by gangbangers and crooks and illegal migrants.

Posted (edited)

It's a big problem. Americans are stupid, (profanity removed by Moderator)

Who says Americans are stupid, not me just say they have a problem and are not perfect just like the rest of us. You on the other hand have a problem, cant even post without cursing. Do you have anger issues ?

No.

Do have obsessive compulsive issues?

No, but I have learned to write a few lines without cursing something I did not see you do in this topic. Though you seem nice enough in other topics. Guess its a sensitive point for you.

I never stated American's were dumb, and at the beginning of the topic I made a statement about a failed state that was to extreme and is not true. But if you just look in topics about Thailand people always start posting about a failed state this and that. Just used it as a mirror guess people took it serious.

I just can't understand the American's that keep denying there is a problem, I have no problems understanding those who do see the problem. The only thing I got a problem with are nationalistic people no matter where they come from who fail to see that there is no perfect country and their shit just smells like the rest of us. So in topics like this where it is clear that a country has a problem I post. Just to counter all the nationalistic shit you see all over the forum.

Edited by Sheryl
profanity in quote removed
Posted

Its not bashing at all its pointing out a problem based on facts. People don't like it one bit when their country looks bad. They twist and turn call it bashing. Its not hard to admit there is a problem. Can still remember Fox complaining about the drugs laws in the Netherlands now they make weed legal in the US. How the times have changed.

Bashing is criticizing. It may be true or may be false; criticizing may still be properly be called bashing.

My mistake, never knew that one I always thought it was bashing when it was not based on something as bashing is so negative.

I see this as just a debate on the internet nothing more, bashing would be fabricating fact lying and doing whatever to discredit something.

But learn something new everyday.

Americans want the bad guys disarmed and to stop gun crime in the USA. Crime is the operative word. No one that I know would mind discussing that.

The posters in this thread for the most part want to confiscate the guns from law abiding citizens and let them be killed by gangbangers and crooks and illegal migrants.

The problem is by having so many legal guns on the street they go to people who do bad things too. On a personal level I would love guns but I am actually quite happy that we have tough gun laws and people are not getting guns easy. (though US is different with hunting not much hunting where I come from too small a country). I would just not feel safe knowing that my neighbor could get drunk and angry and get at his legal gun and shoot me.

Fact remains that when guns are easy to obtain even good people commit crimes.

Now I don't see how people can take away the guns in the US as there are just too many. Its a problem that tough laws really won't solve the problem as the guns are there already. I don't really think it can be solved.

Posted (edited)

To put a little different light on the subject.

The following survey results came out today. It would seem not many Americans care what a host of Europeans and Aussies think about the gun issue..

------------------------------------------------------------------

Poll: 60% say gun control won't stop violence, 54% blame social media
By PAUL BEDARD • 8/31/15 1:08 PM
Despite a rash of recent violent gun slayings, the public is not inclined to back more gun control and believes that new restrictions wouldn't have stopped the shooting deaths, according to a new poll.
Rasmussen Reports, polling on last week's shooting of two Virginia TV journalists on live TV, found that just 29 percent of likely voters believe stricter gun control laws would have prevented the slayings. Twice as many, 60 percent, said it wouldn't have helped.
Those numbers are virtually identical to the public's view of gun control in early 2011 following the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the killing of six others in Arizona.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Insuring the medical profession is reporting those individuals to the proper authorities who they suspect of potential violence would be a massive first step towards reducing the FBI recognized mass shootings.
You will always have the gang banger, drug dealer killings. Stiff prison sentences for anybody caught with an illegal weapon would be a sure fire way to get some of the criminals and illegal immigrants off the streets. Lock 'em up.
Now you may bash away...and that's what you are doing. At least be honest about that.
Edited by chuckd
Posted

Not suprising when firearms can be bought as easy as a coca cola from seven eleven.... A Ban on firearms is long overdue - sure the cowboys will cry its against their freedom and right to protect themselves. But the rest of the World is doing just fine... grow some balls america stop hiding behind firearms, the country is ruled by fear!

Perhaps you should look at the firearms laws in the USA they vary by state as it is the United States of America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state

Why are you afraid of Americans having guns? How does it affect you?

You wrote, "The rest of the World is doing just fine... grow some balls america stop hiding behind firearms, the country is ruled by fear!"

Among the best countries for gun owners are Finland, Sweden, Canada, Norway and Switzerland.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/network-topics/culture-politics-network/best-countries-gun-owners/

Of all of the points you try to make none of them are correct. Even in the old West gun control laws were on the whole rather strict.

a very petty response - you obviously don't understand figures of speech.

the fact is that it is TOO EASY to buy firearms in the US - especially high-power military style weapons.......and the laws need to be federal and much more restrictive.

Because of the ridiculously slack laws the US is awash with old and illegal guns too this in itself presents an enormous problem....on top of any new regulation..

Posted

If you compare only white populations. The USA has about the same murder rate as Belgium. It is gangs and gang violence that give America such a bad rap and criminals don't care about gun laws.

You can say that Criminals don't care about ANY laws. That's what makes them criminals. But actually that's only partly so. The fact that criminals exist is the very reason for criminal laws. Laws, penalties and sanctions do affect criminal behaviour and are a rein on criminals behaviour. Otherwise, why have any laws at all?

Even if you count only white gun related deaths, the U.S. still has the highest gun deaths per 100k population among developed countries. (http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/4/9/e005628.full.pdf).

You can parse the numbers any way you want--the facts on the ground remain the same. And the facts don't look good for gun advocates. This is why the NRA lobbied hard (and successfully) for Congress to defund CDC studies on gun deaths.(http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/12/gun_violence_research_nra_and_congress_blocked_gun_control_studies_at_cdc.html)

And crime-related gun deaths is less than half the story. Over 60% of gun deaths are suicides. Suicide gun deaths are in fact five times higher among whites than blacks. And, yes, having a gun in the house is a major contributor (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506 and confirmed by other studies http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/09/13/2617131/largest-gun-study-guns-murder/)

It's also no use pointing to blacks with guns as a cause of white gun deaths. Most violence is perpetrated within races. That is, blacks mostly kill other blacks and whites mostly kill other whites (and, sadly, themselves).

Yes, violence is a complicated phenomenon. But it is made far more lethal by the easy availability and killing power of firearms.

Every deflection by gun advocates can be argued back to the basic inescapable facts:

Easy access to guns--> more guns in more hands.

More guns-->more gun deaths

A study of 27 developed countries shows that the U.S. Has the highest per capita gun ownership (88.8 per 100) and also the highest gun related deaths (10.2/100k) while Japan has the lowest (0.6/100; 0.06/100k). The study's authors concluded that, "more guns do not make people safer." (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2013/09/19/u-s-has-more-guns-and-gun-deaths-than-any-other-country-study-finds/)

Now, correlation is not *necessarily* causation. But when study after study done by various organisations in various countries at various points in time over the past 30 years point to the same thing, then it is pretty clear that, in fact, more guns=more gun deaths.

For those who say that the U.S. is somehow exceptional and cannot be compared to other countries, studies conducted exclusively within the U.S. show the same thing: http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2013.301409?journalCode=ajph&

T

Posted

If you compare only white populations. The USA has about the same murder rate as Belgium. It is gangs and gang violence that give America such a bad rap and criminals don't care about gun laws.

You can say that Criminals don't care about ANY laws. That's what makes them criminals. But actually that's only partly so. The fact that criminals exist is the very reason for criminal laws. Laws, penalties and sanctions do affect criminal behaviour and are a rein on criminals behaviour. Otherwise, why have any laws at all?

Even if you count only white gun related deaths, the U.S. still has the highest gun deaths per 100k population among developed countries. (http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/4/9/e005628.full.pdf).

You can parse the numbers any way you want--the facts on the ground remain the same. And the facts don't look good for gun advocates. This is why the NRA lobbied hard (and successfully) for Congress to defund CDC studies on gun deaths.(http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/12/gun_violence_research_nra_and_congress_blocked_gun_control_studies_at_cdc.html)

And crime-related gun deaths is less than half the story. Over 60% of gun deaths are suicides. Suicide gun deaths are in fact five times higher among whites than blacks. And, yes, having a gun in the house is a major contributor (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506 and confirmed by other studies http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/09/13/2617131/largest-gun-study-guns-murder/)

It's also no use pointing to blacks with guns as a cause of white gun deaths. Most violence is perpetrated within races. That is, blacks mostly kill other blacks and whites mostly kill other whites (and, sadly, themselves).

Yes, violence is a complicated phenomenon. But it is made far more lethal by the easy availability and killing power of firearms.

Every deflection by gun advocates can be argued back to the basic inescapable facts:

Easy access to guns--> more guns in more hands.

More guns-->more gun deaths

A study of 27 developed countries shows that the U.S. Has the highest per capita gun ownership (88.8 per 100) and also the highest gun related deaths (10.2/100k) while Japan has the lowest (0.6/100; 0.06/100k). The study's authors concluded that, "more guns do not make people safer." (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2013/09/19/u-s-has-more-guns-and-gun-deaths-than-any-other-country-study-finds/)

Now, correlation is not *necessarily* causation. But when study after study done by various organisations in various countries at various points in time over the past 30 years point to the same thing, then it is pretty clear that, in fact, more guns=more gun deaths.

For those who say that the U.S. is somehow exceptional and cannot be compared to other countries, studies conducted exclusively within the U.S. show the same thing: http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2013.301409?journalCode=ajph&

T

Very erudite!

Posted

Not suprising when firearms can be bought as easy as a coca cola from seven eleven.... A Ban on firearms is long overdue - sure the cowboys will cry its against their freedom and right to protect themselves. But the rest of the World is doing just fine... grow some balls america stop hiding behind firearms, the country is ruled by fear!

Perhaps you should look at the firearms laws in the USA they vary by state as it is the United States of America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state

Why are you afraid of Americans having guns? How does it affect you?

You wrote, "The rest of the World is doing just fine... grow some balls america stop hiding behind firearms, the country is ruled by fear!"

Among the best countries for gun owners are Finland, Sweden, Canada, Norway and Switzerland.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/network-topics/culture-politics-network/best-countries-gun-owners/

Of all of the points you try to make none of them are correct. Even in the old West gun control laws were on the whole rather strict.

a very petty response - you obviously don't understand figures of speech.

the fact is that it is TOO EASY to buy firearms in the US - especially high-power military style weapons.......and the laws need to be federal and much more restrictive.

Because of the ridiculously slack laws the US is awash with old and illegal guns too this in itself presents an enormous problem....on top of any new regulation..

What is a high powered military style weapon?

Posted

Not suprising when firearms can be bought as easy as a coca cola from seven eleven.... A Ban on firearms is long overdue - sure the cowboys will cry its against their freedom and right to protect themselves. But the rest of the World is doing just fine... grow some balls america stop hiding behind firearms, the country is ruled by fear!

Perhaps you should look at the firearms laws in the USA they vary by state as it is the United States of America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state

Why are you afraid of Americans having guns? How does it affect you?

You wrote, "The rest of the World is doing just fine... grow some balls america stop hiding behind firearms, the country is ruled by fear!"

Among the best countries for gun owners are Finland, Sweden, Canada, Norway and Switzerland.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/network-topics/culture-politics-network/best-countries-gun-owners/

Of all of the points you try to make none of them are correct. Even in the old West gun control laws were on the whole rather strict.

a very petty response - you obviously don't understand figures of speech.

the fact is that it is TOO EASY to buy firearms in the US - especially high-power military style weapons.......and the laws need to be federal and much more restrictive.

Because of the ridiculously slack laws the US is awash with old and illegal guns too this in itself presents an enormous problem....on top of any new regulation..

What is a high powered military style weapon?

it's a big gun that kills with ease

Posted (edited)

<snip>

the fact is that it is TOO EASY to buy firearms in the US - especially high-power military style weapons.......and the laws need to be federal and much more restrictive.

Because of the ridiculously slack laws the US is awash with old and illegal guns too this in itself presents an enormous problem....on top of any new regulation..

What is a high powered military style weapon?

it's a big gun that kills with ease

"it's a big gun that kills with ease"

Your vast weapons expertise knows no limits.

Edited by chuckd
Posted

<snip>

the fact is that it is TOO EASY to buy firearms in the US - especially high-power military style weapons.......and the laws need to be federal and much more restrictive.

Because of the ridiculously slack laws the US is awash with old and illegal guns too this in itself presents an enormous problem....on top of any new regulation..

What is a high powered military style weapon?

it's a big gun that kills with ease

"it's a big gun that kills with ease"

Your vast weapons expertise knows no limits.

It doesn't take an expert on guns to know that big or small they are a problem in the US that needs addressing and arguing about the specifics of a firearm is just a typical attempt to obfuscate by those who have no real argument.

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