No wonder people like to shop at Lazada.

[Lite Beer]

Most reformers 'don't like charter'
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- NRC MEMBERS FROM ISAAN WILL VOTE AGAINST IT, KHON KAEN REP SAYS

SOME 95 per cent of National Reform Council members from the provinces - especially those from the Northeast - plan to vote against the draft tomorrow, according to one reformer.

Ekarat Changlao, who represents the northeast province of Khon Kaen, claimed that 80 per cent of all 247 NRC members disapproved of the draft because of controversial clauses relating to the National Strategic Reform and Reconciliation Committee, the "outsider" prime minister and the appointed senators.

The charter draft requires the support of at least 124 NRC members to be passed.

The decision to vote "no" was made after a thorough study of the draft charter, Ekarat said, adding that no one from the National Council for Peace and Order had attempted to influence them on how to vote.

Tiwa Karnkrasang, an NRC member representing Buri Ram in the lower Northeast, revealed that to his knowledge the members who do not approved of the charter totalled 140.

However, about 20 of them could also swing back to a "yes" vote, he added. If that was the case, he said, the "yes" camp would have slightly more votes.

Tiwa said most provincial NRC members who plan to "no" want members from academia and social circles to join them.

The NRC member from Chiang Mai, Jurairat Junjakkawat, said she would vote against the charter draft due to its many flaws. She said the decision was based on her own judgement - she had not been lobbied.

Political observers agree that NCPO leaders, including Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha and Deputy Premier Prawit Wongsuwan, sent positive signals in favour of the final draft by the Constitution Drafting Committee.

However, many people have campaigned for the NRC to vote down the draft, mainly elements within the council and the National Legislative Assembly. They want a new constitution written.

If the NRC rejects the draft tomorrow, a new committee of 21 drafters would be set up - most of which would come from the NLA.

Democrat Party politician Watchara Petchthong yesterday compared the draft charter to the excrement of CDC chairman Borwornsak Uwanno.

"I'd like to designate a nickname for this draft constitution as the excrement of Borwornsak Uwanno. This is because this draft is not going to benefit the country or the people," Watchara said.

He added that an election being held should be based on the NRC approving the draft charter. "This draft constitution is full of problems. Therefore, we should vote down the draft so as to start the drafting process anew," the politician said.

Watchara claimed the draft went against the will of King Prajadhipok, who granted his absolute power to the Thai people. He cited the late monarch's message that he did not want power to fall into the hands of a small group of people.

Watchara also placed great emphasis on his belief that the draft was contrary to Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha's previous remark about laws and regulations not being used as tools to create conflict.

He said the draft had received negative feedback from many prominent figures, including Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda, Democrat leader and ex-PM Abhisit Vejjajiva and National Anti-Corruption Commission member Wicha Mahakhun.

CDC spokesman and NRC member Kamnoon Sidhisamarn said he did not know anything about the reported lobbying of fellow members to vote down the draft.

"I don't know because no one has lobbied me and I haven't tried to persuade anyone. I believe the NRC will use their experience, knowledge, capacity and discretion to consider the draft constitution," he said.

Kamnoon said the NRC would not consider other issues.

In related news, politician Chuwit Kamolvisit played a fiddle at Parliament yesterday in a symbolic rebuke of the draft. He warned that if the charter was voted down at a referendum, a huge responsibility would hit the unelected government.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Most-reformers-dont-like-charter-30268187.html

-- The Nation 2015-09-05

[BSJ]

""I'd like to designate a nickname for this draft constitution as the excrement of Borwornsak Uwanno. This is because this draft is not going to benefit the country or the people," Watchara said." Whoa!

[greenchair]

Who will be the first brave one, to stand up and say "no"??

Why waste billions on a referendum, have a nida poll and be done with it. 95 percent will agree with it.

[tbthailand]

Democrat Party politician Watchara Petchthong yesterday compared the draft charter to the excrement of CDC chairman Borwornsak Uwanno.

They rolled a turd...

Surprise...

That a Dem called them out on it, ...

[englishoak]

Democrat Party politician Watchara Petchthong yesterday compared the draft charter to the excrement of CDC chairman Borwornsak Uwanno.

Dosnt sound like all that polishing fooled him anyway

[smutcakes]

They don't need to rewrite the charter, they simply have to remove the ridiculous number of unelected 'bodies', remove the unelected PM role, make the Senate 100% elected and get rid of the super board, it would then be accepted.

In the meantime the Junta should get on with actually carrying out the promised reforms. I dare say that in the last 18 months or so if they had actually carried out some reforms, then people would be far more inclined to look favourably on the short comings in the draft and accept it.

[aussieinthailand]

They can polish this thing as much as they like it's still a turd, apparently.

So fell's eat a s__t sandwich and go back and get it right before trying to force feed the voters.

So it seems there's a sway of 20-30 people that may swing either way, The opportunity for corruption is kicking down the door.

[Praematura]

Lol what's the symbolic value of playing the fiddle?

[h90]

They don't need to rewrite the charter, they simply have to remove the ridiculous number of unelected 'bodies', remove the unelected PM role, make the Senate 100% elected and get rid of the super board, it would then be accepted.

In the meantime the Junta should get on with actually carrying out the promised reforms. I dare say that in the last 18 months or so if they had actually carried out some reforms, then people would be far more inclined to look favourably on the short comings in the draft and accept it.

If you make an elected Senate you would better remove the Senate because it would be anyway just the wife and gardener of the MPs....The Senate should be a balance and correcting instrument. If you have the same people buy their way in, it won't do its job.

[h90]

It seems someone worries for their income.....

[pedro01]

Who will be the first brave one, to stand up and say "no"??

Why waste billions on a referendum, have a nida poll and be done with it. 95 percent will agree with it.

The NRC get to vote on it first. If they kick it out, it's back to the drafting board.

[chainarong]

Not many do like those charter amendments, including many here at TV , that Khun Watchara mentions , the best course of action will be to think very carefully before casting a vote, either way you could end up on the no show list at this coming new years party / honours list.

[Srikcir]

It appears that the Democratic Party might be splintering between Suthep and Abhisit. Suthep has clearly aligned his political future with the military political agenda.

If Suthep goes "independent" with his own PDRC-style party in the next election, the PTP or its successor will either sweep the election or at worse have a coalition government. Democrats will become a marginalized party and the military will go into political overdrive.

[Jon Wetherall]

Who will be the first brave one, to stand up and say "no"??

Why waste billions on a referendum, have a nida poll and be done with it. 95 percent will agree with it.

The NRC get to vote on it first. If they kick it out, it's back to the drafting board.

True. And a very useful warning shot across Prayuth's bows. Not that he'll be allowed to pay any attention.

[Jon Wetherall]

It appears that the Democratic Party might be splintering between Suthep and Abhisit. Suthep has clearly aligned his political future with the military political agenda.

If Suthep goes "independent" with his own PDRC-style party in the next election, the PTP or its successor will either sweep the election or at worse have a coalition government. Democrats will become a marginalized party and the military will go into political overdrive.

I firmly believe that if the mad monk wants to go solo and create his own political party then he should do so with the blessings of all Thais.

Be a useful way to split the yellow vote and ensure the Democrat party sinks without trace, along with their sponsors, benefactors and guardians.

[smutcakes]

They don't need to rewrite the charter, they simply have to remove the ridiculous number of unelected 'bodies', remove the unelected PM role, make the Senate 100% elected and get rid of the super board, it would then be accepted.

In the meantime the Junta should get on with actually carrying out the promised reforms. I dare say that in the last 18 months or so if they had actually carried out some reforms, then people would be far more inclined to look favourably on the short comings in the draft and accept it.

If you make an elected Senate you would better remove the Senate because it would be anyway just the wife and gardener of the MPs....The Senate should be a balance and correcting instrument. If you have the same people buy their way in, it won't do its job.

That may be so, but i would prefer to have the elected crooks stealing from me, than the crooks no one elected stealing from me.

With elections, theoretically, any Thai national has the opportunity to be elected, where everyone on paper is equal, why should unelected persons, who are no better, or should have no additional rights than any other Thai, be in a position to 'select' who represents all Thais.

Until you have a number of people in Thailand who have the ability to be politically neutral, then whether they are elected or selected, the Senate will never be a trustworthy correcting instrument, but at least give the Thai people the opportunity to elect who should be on the Senate.

[Reigntax]

They don't need to rewrite the charter, they simply have to remove the ridiculous number of unelected 'bodies', remove the unelected PM role, make the Senate 100% elected and get rid of the super board, it would then be accepted.

In the meantime the Junta should get on with actually carrying out the promised reforms. I dare say that in the last 18 months or so if they had actually carried out some reforms, then people would be far more inclined to look favourably on the short comings in the draft and accept it.

If you make an elected Senate you would better remove the Senate because it would be anyway just the wife and gardener of the MPs....The Senate should be a balance and correcting instrument. If you have the same people buy their way in, it won't do its job.

That may be so, but i would prefer to have the elected crooks stealing from me, than the crooks no one elected stealing from me.

With elections, theoretically, any Thai national has the opportunity to be elected, where everyone on paper is equal, why should unelected persons, who are no better, or should have no additional rights than any other Thai, be in a position to 'select' who represents all Thais.

Until you have a number of people in Thailand who have the ability to be politically neutral, then whether they are elected or selected, the Senate will never be a trustworthy correcting instrument, but at least give the Thai people the opportunity to elect who should be on the Senate.

Exactly. The worst performing elected government is still better than the best performance of a non elected government and you can vote them out of office if you so choose.

Unfortunately the junta is worse because it is a poor performing non elected government and wants to stay and doesnt realise just how incompetent they really are.

[MZurf]

It appears that the Democratic Party might be splintering between Suthep and Abhisit. Suthep has clearly aligned his political future with the military political agenda.

If Suthep goes "independent" with his own PDRC-style party in the next election, the PTP or its successor will either sweep the election or at worse have a coalition government. Democrats will become a marginalized party and the military will go into political overdrive.

I firmly believe that if the mad monk wants to go solo and create his own political party then he should do so with the blessings of all Thais.

Be a useful way to split the yellow vote and ensure the Democrat party sinks without trace, along with their sponsors, benefactors and guardians.

I agree that it could be beneficial for the political landscape if Suthep created his own party. But in my dream this will rid the dems of their extremists and allow them to evolve into a political party that is truly national, as opposed to a party mainly that mainly represent the haves.

I know, I know - not very likely.

[Jon Wetherall]

They don't need to rewrite the charter, they simply have to remove the ridiculous number of unelected 'bodies', remove the unelected PM role, make the Senate 100% elected and get rid of the super board, it would then be accepted.

In the meantime the Junta should get on with actually carrying out the promised reforms. I dare say that in the last 18 months or so if they had actually carried out some reforms, then people would be far more inclined to look favourably on the short comings in the draft and accept it.

If you make an elected Senate you would better remove the Senate because it would be anyway just the wife and gardener of the MPs....The Senate should be a balance and correcting instrument. If you have the same people buy their way in, it won't do its job.

That may be so, but i would prefer to have the elected crooks stealing from me, than the crooks no one elected stealing from me.

With elections, theoretically, any Thai national has the opportunity to be elected, where everyone on paper is equal, why should unelected persons, who are no better, or should have no additional rights than any other Thai, be in a position to 'select' who represents all Thais.

Until you have a number of people in Thailand who have the ability to be politically neutral, then whether they are elected or selected, the Senate will never be a trustworthy correcting instrument, but at least give the Thai people the opportunity to elect who should be on the Senate.

Quite right. In any case, if the people want to elect an MP's wife as a senator and it isn't against the law then they are free to do so. Unelected rich and powerful people (who probably became rich and powerful through stealing and corruption) are not entitled to say the people voted wrongly and tip their choice of government out by force. Not in the grown-up world anyway. As Mr Prayuth has been finding out and will likely continue to find out. It must be very upsetting to be told you're wonderful all your life for being a loyal drone, and then find out that leaders in the real world outside the Magic Kingdom don't even want to stand near you.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Jon Wetherall

[Jon Wetherall]

It appears that the Democratic Party might be splintering between Suthep and Abhisit. Suthep has clearly aligned his political future with the military political agenda.

If Suthep goes "independent" with his own PDRC-style party in the next election, the PTP or its successor will either sweep the election or at worse have a coalition government. Democrats will become a marginalized party and the military will go into political overdrive.

I firmly believe that if the mad monk wants to go solo and create his own political party then he should do so with the blessings of all Thais.

Be a useful way to split the yellow vote and ensure the Democrat party sinks without trace, along with their sponsors, benefactors and guardians.

I agree that it could be beneficial for the political landscape if Suthep created his own party. But in my dream this will rid the dems of their extremists and allow them to evolve into a political party that is truly national, as opposed to a party mainly that mainly represent the haves.

I know, I know - not very likely.

No. Not very likely in my opinion too. And impossible unless they dump Marky Mark, the ratbag connoisseur's choice of ratbag - reputed to be dating someone interesting as I recall from the rumour mill..

Edited September 5, 2015 by Jon Wetherall

[Jon Wetherall]

They don't need to rewrite the charter, they simply have to remove the ridiculous number of unelected 'bodies', remove the unelected PM role, make the Senate 100% elected and get rid of the super board, it would then be accepted.

In the meantime the Junta should get on with actually carrying out the promised reforms. I dare say that in the last 18 months or so if they had actually carried out some reforms, then people would be far more inclined to look favourably on the short comings in the draft and accept it.

If you make an elected Senate you would better remove the Senate because it would be anyway just the wife and gardener of the MPs....The Senate should be a balance and correcting instrument. If you have the same people buy their way in, it won't do its job.

That may be so, but i would prefer to have the elected crooks stealing from me, than the crooks no one elected stealing from me.

With elections, theoretically, any Thai national has the opportunity to be elected, where everyone on paper is equal, why should unelected persons, who are no better, or should have no additional rights than any other Thai, be in a position to 'select' who represents all Thais.

Until you have a number of people in Thailand who have the ability to be politically neutral, then whether they are elected or selected, the Senate will never be a trustworthy correcting instrument, but at least give the Thai people the opportunity to elect who should be on the Senate.

Exactly. The worst performing elected government is still better than the best performance of a non elected government and you can vote them out of office if you so choose.

Unfortunately the junta is worse because it is a poor performing non elected government and wants to stay and doesnt realise just how incompetent they really are.

Right. And for an unelected usurper government specialising in propaganda and lies not to know how incompetent it really is, preferring instead some fantasy about being all-conquering, is almost unbelievable in this day and age.

Mind you... Cameron. Blair, Thatcher, Netenyahu, Abbott, Obama. Damn, the edit button just disappeared... too late.

[billd766]

It appears that the Democratic Party might be splintering between Suthep and Abhisit. Suthep has clearly aligned his political future with the military political agenda.

If Suthep goes "independent" with his own PDRC-style party in the next election, the PTP or its successor will either sweep the election or at worse have a coalition government. Democrats will become a marginalized party and the military will go into political overdrive.

I firmly believe that if the mad monk wants to go solo and create his own political party then he should do so with the blessings of all Thais.

Be a useful way to split the yellow vote and ensure the Democrat party sinks without trace, along with their sponsors, benefactors and guardians.

I firmly believe that the UDD should become a political party on its own and not be a part of the TRT/PPP/PTP or the next reincarnation of it..

Of course they would need a lot of money but I am sure that Nattawut and Jatuporn would throw in a few baht. They would also need transparency, accountability and morality as well but that may be a problem. They could stand as the alternative PTP.

[Eric Loh]

It appears that the Democratic Party might be splintering between Suthep and Abhisit. Suthep has clearly aligned his political future with the military political agenda.

If Suthep goes "independent" with his own PDRC-style party in the next election, the PTP or its successor will either sweep the election or at worse have a coalition government. Democrats will become a marginalized party and the military will go into political overdrive.

Agreed but then again Suthep is a political chameleon and you can never trust him to stick to one ideology or group. Similarly the Dem Party will sell their principle to gain political advantage. They did welcome Suthep back in their fold and made him the party deputy president even after causing the collapse of the Chuan's government. The party also did sell their principle to the army just to form the government. Moreover Suthep is a major party financer and use that to muscle in demands from the party. Come election, I expect Suthep and the Dem Party will find an excuse to be back together.

[billd766]

They don't need to rewrite the charter, they simply have to remove the ridiculous number of unelected 'bodies', remove the unelected PM role, make the Senate 100% elected and get rid of the super board, it would then be accepted.

In the meantime the Junta should get on with actually carrying out the promised reforms. I dare say that in the last 18 months or so if they had actually carried out some reforms, then people would be far more inclined to look favourably on the short comings in the draft and accept it.

If you make an elected Senate you would better remove the Senate because it would be anyway just the wife and gardener of the MPs....The Senate should be a balance and correcting instrument. If you have the same people buy their way in, it won't do its job.

That may be so, but i would prefer to have the elected crooks stealing from me, than the crooks no one elected stealing from me.

With elections, theoretically, any Thai national has the opportunity to be elected, where everyone on paper is equal, why should unelected persons, who are no better, or should have no additional rights than any other Thai, be in a position to 'select' who represents all Thais.

Until you have a number of people in Thailand who have the ability to be politically neutral, then whether they are elected or selected, the Senate will never be a trustworthy correcting instrument, but at least give the Thai people the opportunity to elect who should be on the Senate.

Personally I would rather have NO crooks stealing from me, elected or not.

I would also like the people who run and have run, the country over the past 20 odd years to spend their time and energy to make things better for ALL the Thai people rather than for their family, cronies and hangers on.

Well that is two dreams that won't happen in my lifetime anyway.

[smutcakes]

They don't need to rewrite the charter, they simply have to remove the ridiculous number of unelected 'bodies', remove the unelected PM role, make the Senate 100% elected and get rid of the super board, it would then be accepted.

In the meantime the Junta should get on with actually carrying out the promised reforms. I dare say that in the last 18 months or so if they had actually carried out some reforms, then people would be far more inclined to look favourably on the short comings in the draft and accept it.

If you make an elected Senate you would better remove the Senate because it would be anyway just the wife and gardener of the MPs....The Senate should be a balance and correcting instrument. If you have the same people buy their way in, it won't do its job.

That may be so, but i would prefer to have the elected crooks stealing from me, than the crooks no one elected stealing from me.

With elections, theoretically, any Thai national has the opportunity to be elected, where everyone on paper is equal, why should unelected persons, who are no better, or should have no additional rights than any other Thai, be in a position to 'select' who represents all Thais.

Until you have a number of people in Thailand who have the ability to be politically neutral, then whether they are elected or selected, the Senate will never be a trustworthy correcting instrument, but at least give the Thai people the opportunity to elect who should be on the Senate.

Personally I would rather have NO crooks stealing from me, elected or not.

I would also like the people who run and have run, the country over the past 20 odd years to spend their time and energy to make things better for ALL the Thai people rather than for their family, cronies and hangers on.

Well that is two dreams that won't happen in my lifetime anyway.

Well i think everyone would agree, however there is little or no chance of this happening, so it may as well be the elected crooks running the show, at least then you can get rid of them.

The current Junta have had 18 months to start affecting change, but nothing has happened.

[phoenixdoglover]

The addition of the National Strategic Reform and Reconciliation Committee to the Charter was a "poison pill" and a beautiful power play.

Start with larger context for the power struggle today. It is firmly rooted in "the event that can't be named".

With the ouster of the Yingluck government, the Coup, and the establishment of a lengthy "Roadmap" by the Junta, it was believed that a window was now open for the "good" people to remain in control.

Divine providence has not intervened. More time is needed, but the semblance of progress toward restoration of an elected government must be maintained, otherwise the hollowness of the charade will be revealed.

Enter the poison pill. A new clause in the Charter that boldly proclaims, "You elected fools will be running the country, until we say you aren't."

If the charter is voted in, the pill is swallowed and the Junta will remain in the top position for at least 5 years. (Surely enough time for "things" to happen). If the charter is voted out, the Roadmap will be "unfortunately" rescheduled, and another year is gained.

Meh. Vote it down. People are getting restive.

[Jon Wetherall]

It appears that the Democratic Party might be splintering between Suthep and Abhisit. Suthep has clearly aligned his political future with the military political agenda.

If Suthep goes "independent" with his own PDRC-style party in the next election, the PTP or its successor will either sweep the election or at worse have a coalition government. Democrats will become a marginalized party and the military will go into political overdrive.

I firmly believe that if the mad monk wants to go solo and create his own political party then he should do so with the blessings of all Thais.

Be a useful way to split the yellow vote and ensure the Democrat party sinks without trace, along with their sponsors, benefactors and guardians.

I firmly believe that the UDD should become a political party on its own and not be a part of the TRT/PPP/PTP or the next reincarnation of it..

Of course they would need a lot of money but I am sure that Nattawut and Jatuporn would throw in a few baht. They would also need transparency, accountability and morality as well but that may be a problem. They could stand as the alternative PTP.

Inclined to agree.

[Jon Wetherall]

It appears that the Democratic Party might be splintering between Suthep and Abhisit. Suthep has clearly aligned his political future with the military political agenda.

If Suthep goes "independent" with his own PDRC-style party in the next election, the PTP or its successor will either sweep the election or at worse have a coalition government. Democrats will become a marginalized party and the military will go into political overdrive.

Agreed but then again Suthep is a political chameleon and you can never trust him to stick to one ideology or group. Similarly the Dem Party will sell their principle to gain political advantage. They did welcome Suthep back in their fold and made him the party deputy president even after causing the collapse of the Chuan's government. The party also did sell their principle to the army just to form the government. Moreover Suthep is a major party financer and use that to muscle in demands from the party. Come election, I expect Suthep and the Dem Party will find an excuse to be back together.

Always assuming they ever clambered out of the same bed to start with. Personally I think they didn't and that Mark (dishonest but not a complete nimrod) knew perfectly well what was happening and why.

But then reality don't count, only appearances of reality count.

Beats me why they hold on to Abhisit though. Oh yes. The person he's alleged to be dating got some clout in those circles.

[Baerboxer]

It appears that the Democratic Party might be splintering between Suthep and Abhisit. Suthep has clearly aligned his political future with the military political agenda.

If Suthep goes "independent" with his own PDRC-style party in the next election, the PTP or its successor will either sweep the election or at worse have a coalition government. Democrats will become a marginalized party and the military will go into political overdrive.

I firmly believe that if the mad monk wants to go solo and create his own political party then he should do so with the blessings of all Thais.

Be a useful way to split the yellow vote and ensure the Democrat party sinks without trace, along with their sponsors, benefactors and guardians.

I agree that it could be beneficial for the political landscape if Suthep created his own party. But in my dream this will rid the dems of their extremists and allow them to evolve into a political party that is truly national, as opposed to a party mainly that mainly represent the haves.

I know, I know - not very likely.

There needs to be real political parties, that follow the law, govern in the interests of all, and not totally corrupt self serving lackeys of one gang or another.

The elite hiso Chinese aren't going to give up their immensely wealthy and privileged life style, nor are the regional power barons; and most certainly not the new gang on the block. All have discovered just how vast the wealth is that can be plundered and all want to secure these benefits for future generations of their families.

Nothing that has happened in the last 10 years has changed that.

That people think anyone could really stand for parliament, in any area, shows just how naive some are in the how things really work here.

The losers have always been, and will always be, the Thai people unless there are some very fundamental changes and massive shifts in paradigms.

[Baerboxer]

It appears that the Democratic Party might be splintering between Suthep and Abhisit. Suthep has clearly aligned his political future with the military political agenda.

If Suthep goes "independent" with his own PDRC-style party in the next election, the PTP or its successor will either sweep the election or at worse have a coalition government. Democrats will become a marginalized party and the military will go into political overdrive.

I firmly believe that if the mad monk wants to go solo and create his own political party then he should do so with the blessings of all Thais.

Be a useful way to split the yellow vote and ensure the Democrat party sinks without trace, along with their sponsors, benefactors and guardians.

I firmly believe that the UDD should become a political party on its own and not be a part of the TRT/PPP/PTP or the next reincarnation of it..

Of course they would need a lot of money but I am sure that Nattawut and Jatuporn would throw in a few baht. They would also need transparency, accountability and morality as well but that may be a problem. They could stand as the alternative PTP.

It would be nice to have some new alternatives, especially parties that would truly represent the masses and not some corrupt family scam machine.

But, remember who appointed Nat and Jat to their roles in the UDD and who instructs and controls them.

Hopefully there are some people within the UDD/Red Shirt movements who are clever enough to see how they've been manipulated and abused by certain others for their own ends. Maybe some leadership could emerge from within the students or younger membership rather than the old leadership who were rewarded with PTP MP and cabinet positions.