Nicola Sturgeon: David Cameron 'living on borrowed time'

[katana]

Sturgeon and Salmond are just two cheeks of the same backside.

[MAJIC]

Scotlands time will come latest when UK will leave EU but not Scotland. Scotland would be the better partner of EU than 10 Downing street

Well let's hope your right and the U.K. Does leave the undemocratic EU. And if Scotland were silly enough not to leave the EU would they be able to influence and take advantage of the EU beaurocrats as they now do with the U.K. Government.

In the meantime sawadee1947 do continue to spout your Irish anti British propergander.

"Well let's hope your right and the U.K. Does leave the undemocratic EU. And if Scotland were silly enough not to leave the EU would they be able to influence and take advantage of the EU beaurocrats as they now do with the U.K. Government."

Well for starters the Scottish people wouldn't receive individually £1500 per annum from Westminster,as opposed to £1000 per annum to English people! most EU money goes to support Economic Migrants,as can be witnessed right now! and building up Countries with giving gigantic loans to Countries that build up their run down countries,with no intentions of ever paying back their debts ! So Scotland are welcome to the EU!

Edited September 18, 2015 by MAJIC

[RuamRudy]

Scotlands time will come latest when UK will leave EU but not Scotland. Scotland would be the better partner of EU than 10 Downing street

Well let's hope your right and the U.K. Does leave the undemocratic EU. And if Scotland were silly enough not to leave the EU would they be able to influence and take advantage of the EU beaurocrats as they now do with the U.K. Government.

In the meantime sawadee1947 do continue to spout your Irish anti British propergander.

"Well let's hope your right and the U.K. Does leave the undemocratic EU. And if Scotland were silly enough not to leave the EU would they be able to influence and take advantage of the EU beaurocrats as they now do with the U.K. Government."

Well for starters the Scottish people wouldn't receive individually £1500 per annum from Westminster,as opposed to £1000 per annum to English people! most EU money goes to support Economic Migrants,as can be witnessed right now! and building up Countries with giving gigantic loans to Countries that build up their run down countries,with no intentions of ever paying back their debts ! So Scotland are welcome to the EU!

As I stated previously on this thread, Scotland already contributes more per head to the exchequer than any other of the home nations.

[sawadee1947]

Scotlands time will come latest when UK will leave EU but not Scotland. Scotland would be the better partner of EU than 10 Downing street

Well let's hope your right and the U.K. Does leave the undemocratic EU. And if Scotland were silly enough not to leave the EU would they be able to influence and take advantage of the EU beaurocrats as they now do with the U.K. Government.

In the meantime sawadee1947 do continue to spout your Irish anti British propergander.

I can't see any good coming from UK in concern of EU. Only cherry picking and complaints. Not any constructive issues ever. Those members are useless.

Scotland shall go it's own way as it was supporting EU in the past. I would welcome a new member in our community. God save the freedom.

[7by7]

Scotlands time will come latest when UK will leave EU but not Scotland. Scotland would be the better partner of EU than 10 Downing street

Well let's hope your right and the U.K. Does leave the undemocratic EU. And if Scotland were silly enough not to leave the EU would they be able to influence and take advantage of the EU beaurocrats as they now do with the U.K. Government.

In the meantime sawadee1947 do continue to spout your Irish anti British propergander.

"Well let's hope your right and the U.K. Does leave the undemocratic EU. And if Scotland were silly enough not to leave the EU would they be able to influence and take advantage of the EU beaurocrats as they now do with the U.K. Government."

Well for starters the Scottish people wouldn't receive individually £1500 per annum from Westminster,as opposed to £1000 per annum to English people! most EU money goes to support Economic Migrants,as can be witnessed right now! and building up Countries with giving gigantic loans to Countries that build up their run down countries,with no intentions of ever paying back their debts ! So Scotland are welcome to the EU!

As I stated previously on this thread, Scotland already contributes more per head to the exchequer than any other of the home nations.

The exchequer spends a bit more per head in Northern Ireland than in Scotland, a bit less in Wales and a lot less in England!

The Scottish 'contribution' to the exchequer wouldn't be missed, all that money and more goes back to Scotland!

Let Scotland keep all the taxes it raises; but scrap the Barnett formula as well.

[7by7]

Scots were told it was a once in a generation chance to vote for independence. The yes camp lost and now one year down the line Sturgeon and her nats are pushing for another referendum. For so called educated people they are certainly exhibiting a poor grasp of a simple word in the English language, that word being NO...... I can only assume the generation the nats originally referred to was that of field mice.

Recent opinion polls show that a majority of Scots now want independence - unfortunately late, I will concede, but nonetheless the will of the people is moving further and further from the Union...........

Opinion polls before the referendum showed that the 'Yes' vote would win; it didn't!

Opinion polls before the General Election, and exit polls on voting day, showed a Labour landslide; the Tories won!

To misquote Psalm 146:3 Put not your trust in opinion polls!

[GinBoy2]

I am but a bemused observer in this internecine conflict, but...I've travelled a lot in the UK, worked in England & Scotland and apart from the fact that the accents differ very little is distinct between the two nations to an outsider.

That being said, would anyone notice or care if Scotland became independent? If they want independence let them go.

I looked up the populations of the UK home nations, would hardly make a blip on the map. Finland is a proud and independent nation...does anyone give it a second thought?

[RuamRudy]

Scots were told it was a once in a generation chance to vote for independence. The yes camp lost and now one year down the line Sturgeon and her nats are pushing for another referendum. For so called educated people they are certainly exhibiting a poor grasp of a simple word in the English language, that word being NO...... I can only assume the generation the nats originally referred to was that of field mice.

Recent opinion polls show that a majority of Scots now want independence - unfortunately late, I will concede, but nonetheless the will of the people is moving further and further from the Union...........

Opinion polls before the referendum showed that the 'Yes' vote would win; it didn't!

Opinion polls before the General Election, and exit polls on voting day, showed a Labour landslide; the Tories won!

To misquote Psalm 146:3 Put not your trust in opinion polls!

I can remember one pre-referendum poll which suggested we may just about scrape by, but there were none that I can recall that showed a clear majority in favour of independence. But the 53% for independence is not enough, I feel, to push for a rerun of the referendum. It would simply end up with the same bitterness on both sides of the argument.

The BBC article I linked to suggest that another SNP landslide could occur at the Holyrood elections next year; maybe that plus another year or two of continually rising polls will see something more dramatic.

[Basil B]

We want another referendum, and if we do not win that we will have another, and another until we win...

She is a bit Kranky, aint she???

That woman has had her 15 minutes of fame, time she crawled back in her box...

[RuamRudy]

We want another referendum, and if we do not win that we will have another, and another until we win...

She is a bit Kranky, aint she???

krankies.jpg

That woman has had her 15 minutes of fame, time she crawled back in her box...

She is the elected leader of the party that wiped the floor with every other party in the country at the general election, and is forecast to do the same at the Holyrood election next year. She has every right to be heard.

As for the Kranky joke (originality is clearly not your strongest suit), I see that you are an adherent of the Donald Trump school of debating.

[Sam Jones]

David Cameron - the Neville Chamberlain of our time, a traitor to his own country ...

Edited September 19, 2015 by Sam Jones

[uksomchai]

Scotlands time will come latest when UK will leave EU but not Scotland. Scotland would be the better partner of EU than 10 Downing street

Well let's hope your right and the U.K. Does leave the undemocratic EU. And if Scotland were silly enough not to leave the EU would they be able to influence and take advantage of the EU beaurocrats as they now do with the U.K. Government.

In the meantime sawadee1947 do continue to spout your Irish anti British propergander.

"Well let's hope your right and the U.K. Does leave the undemocratic EU. And if Scotland were silly enough not to leave the EU would they be able to influence and take advantage of the EU beaurocrats as they now do with the U.K. Government."

Well for starters the Scottish people wouldn't receive individually £1500 per annum from Westminster,as opposed to £1000 per annum to English people! most EU money goes to support Economic Migrants,as can be witnessed right now! and building up Countries with giving gigantic loans to Countries that build up their run down countries,with no intentions of ever paying back their debts ! So Scotland are welcome to the EU!

As I stated previously on this thread, Scotland already contributes more per head to the exchequer than any other of the home nations.

Can you provide us all with a link to this BS ?

Why does England have to keep giving more per capita to those in Scotland then ?

The Barnet formula ?

[RuamRudy]

Well let's hope your right and the U.K. Does leave the undemocratic EU. And if Scotland were silly enough not to leave the EU would they be able to influence and take advantage of the EU beaurocrats as they now do with the U.K. Government.

In the meantime sawadee1947 do continue to spout your Irish anti British propergander.

"Well let's hope your right and the U.K. Does leave the undemocratic EU. And if Scotland were silly enough not to leave the EU would they be able to influence and take advantage of the EU beaurocrats as they now do with the U.K. Government."

Well for starters the Scottish people wouldn't receive individually £1500 per annum from Westminster,as opposed to £1000 per annum to English people! most EU money goes to support Economic Migrants,as can be witnessed right now! and building up Countries with giving gigantic loans to Countries that build up their run down countries,with no intentions of ever paying back their debts ! So Scotland are welcome to the EU!

As I stated previously on this thread, Scotland already contributes more per head to the exchequer than any other of the home nations.

Can you provide us all with a link to this BS ?

Why does England have to keep giving more per capita to those in Scotland then ?

The Barnet formula ?

Do you understand the difference between England and the United Kingdom? They are not one and the same, despite what you may think.

The clue to finding the link is in my opening line 'As I stated previously...' but just for you, I will repost it. Have a read then confirm whether you understand it, or whether you still claim it to be 'BS'.

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

The clue to finding the link is in my opening line 'As I stated previously...' but just for you, I will repost it. Have a read then confirm whether you understand it, or whether you still claim it to be 'BS'.

All that article in your link indicates is that Scots are paid more than the English and therefore pay more tax.

The question you have to ask yourself is: "Why are they paid so much more?"

[RuamRudy]

<snip>

The clue to finding the link is in my opening line 'As I stated previously...' but just for you, I will repost it. Have a read then confirm whether you understand it, or whether you still claim it to be 'BS'.

All that article in your link indicates is that Scots are paid more than the English and therefore pay more tax.

The question you have to ask yourself is: "Why are they paid so much more?"

Taxation is levied at the same rate nationwide - if we generate more, we pay more.

There is actually a logical reason for the higher funding to Scotland (and it applies to Wales and Northern Ireland too). Basically the UK aspires to provide parity in services to its residents, but in areas where those residents are more spread out and infrastructure less developed, the cost of supplying those services rises, hence the increase in funding.

EDIT: an important factor to also consider is that 'national infrastructure projects' such as HSII, which do not benefit Scotland one iota, are exempt from the funding equation, so while we contribute to the cost of them, we do not see a corresponding rise in our funding.

Edited September 19, 2015 by RuamRudy

[nontabury]

Scotlands time will come latest when UK will leave EU but not Scotland. Scotland would be the better partner of EU than 10 Downing street

Well let's hope your right and the U.K. Does leave the undemocratic EU. And if Scotland were silly enough not to leave the EU would they be able to influence and take advantage of the EU beaurocrats as they now do with the U.K. Government.

In the meantime sawadee1947 do continue to spout your Irish anti British propergander.

"Well let's hope your right and the U.K. Does leave the undemocratic EU. And if Scotland were silly enough not to leave the EU would they be able to influence and take advantage of the EU beaurocrats as they now do with the U.K. Government."

Well for starters the Scottish people wouldn't receive individually £1500 per annum from Westminster,as opposed to £1000 per annum to English people! most EU money goes to support Economic Migrants,as can be witnessed right now! and building up Countries with giving gigantic loans to Countries that build up their run down countries,with no intentions of ever paying back their debts ! So Scotland are welcome to the EU!

As I stated previously on this thread, Scotland already contributes more per head to the exchequer than any other of the home nations.

It's debatable if that was the case 18months ago, however we now have far less money coming into the exchequer from oil,and that is especially so,from the Scottish area.

It's a pity that the Scottish electorate voted against separation last year.

If they had voted yes,and then were to became a separate country next year,how would they be able to finance all of the the SNP socialist policies.

Far better to stay in the union and get the rest of the U.K. to continue to make the payments.

[nontabury]

Scotlands time will come latest when UK will leave EU but not Scotland. Scotland would be the better partner of EU than 10 Downing street

Well let's hope your right and the U.K. Does leave the undemocratic EU. And if Scotland were silly enough not to leave the EU would they be able to influence and take advantage of the EU beaurocrats as they now do with the U.K. Government.

In the meantime sawadee1947 do continue to spout your Irish anti British propergander.

I can't see any good coming from UK in concern of EU. Only cherry picking and complaints. Not any constructive issues ever. Those members are useless.

Scotland shall go it's own way as it was supporting EU in the past. I would welcome a new member in our community. God save the freedom.

Did the UK (including Scotland)cherry pick when it decided to become one of the major contributors to the bankrupt Irish republic a few years back?

[Basil B]

We want another referendum, and if we do not win that we will have another, and another until we win...

She is a bit Kranky, aint she???

krankies.jpg

That woman has had her 15 minutes of fame, time she crawled back in her box...

She is the elected leader of the party that wiped the floor with every other party in the country at the general election, and is forecast to do the same at the Holyrood election next year. She has every right to be heard.

As for the Kranky joke (originality is clearly not your strongest suit), I see that you are an adherent of the Donald Trump school of debating.

"She is the elected leader of the party that wiped the floor with every other party in the country Scotland at the general election"

Maybe a few defectors from Labour and she call the SNP a National Party.

Kranky it not just her looks and accent... Maybe she should take up pole dancing...

Edited September 19, 2015 by Basil B

[7by7]

<snip>

EDIT: an important factor to also consider is that 'national infrastructure projects' such as HSII, which do not benefit Scotland one iota, are exempt from the funding equation, so while we contribute to the cost of them, we do not see a corresponding rise in our funding.

Do not benefit Scotland on iota? The Scottish government do not agree with you on that!

Infrastructure Investment Plan 2011 - Updated Programme Pipeline (January 2015); Transport.

Programme

High Speed Rail (HSR)

1. Scotland's inclusion in a UK HSR network. Scheme currently proposed includes London, Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester.

2. Develop Scottish section of HSR comprising a new HSR line between Edinburgh and Glasgow, with provision to link to proposed UK network (or existing West Coast Main Line in interim period).

Benefits to Scotland

Economic and environmental benefits to Scotland, strong Benefit Cost Ratio for construction of Scottish section.

Economic and environmental benefits to Scotland. Provide first part of HSR in Scotland, with additional capacity release benefits across the existing network.

[nontabury]

We want another referendum, and if we do not win that we will have another, and another until we win...

She is a bit Kranky, aint she???

krankies.jpg

That woman has had her 15 minutes of fame, time she crawled back in her box...

She is the elected leader of the party that wiped the floor with every other party in the country at the general election, and is forecast to do the same at the Holyrood election next year. She has every right to be heard.

As for the Kranky joke (originality is clearly not your strongest suit), I see that you are an adherent of the Donald Trump school of debating.

"She is the elected leader of the party that wiped the floor with every other party in the country Scotland at the general election"

Maybe a few defectors from Labour and she call the SNP a National Party.

Kranky it not just her looks and accent... Maybe she should take up pole dancing...

sturgeon sexist.jpg

Sorry! But I don't think politicians should be made fun of like this. I think it's best, just to point out the weaknesses in the policies of this lady and the Nationalist party that she leads.

[RuamRudy]

<snip>

EDIT: an important factor to also consider is that 'national infrastructure projects' such as HSII, which do not benefit Scotland one iota, are exempt from the funding equation, so while we contribute to the cost of them, we do not see a corresponding rise in our funding.

Do not benefit Scotland on iota? The Scottish government do not agree with you on that!

Infrastructure Investment Plan 2011 - Updated Programme Pipeline (January 2015); Transport.

Programme

High Speed Rail (HSR)

1. Scotland's inclusion in a UK HSR network. Scheme currently proposed includes London, Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester.

2. Develop Scottish section of HSR comprising a new HSR line between Edinburgh and Glasgow, with provision to link to proposed UK network (or existing West Coast Main Line in interim period).

Benefits to Scotland

Economic and environmental benefits to Scotland, strong Benefit Cost Ratio for construction of Scottish section.

Economic and environmental benefits to Scotland. Provide first part of HSR in Scotland, with additional capacity release benefits across the existing network.

You omitted the part that said that the Scottish contribution would be £8-9 billion (over and above the contribution we are paying to the London to Leeds section) and that it is expected in 2033!

[Basil B]

We want another referendum, and if we do not win that we will have another, and another until we win...

She is a bit Kranky, aint she???

krankies.jpg

That woman has had her 15 minutes of fame, time she crawled back in her box...

She is the elected leader of the party that wiped the floor with every other party in the country at the general election, and is forecast to do the same at the Holyrood election next year. She has every right to be heard.

As for the Kranky joke (originality is clearly not your strongest suit), I see that you are an adherent of the Donald Trump school of debating.

"She is the elected leader of the party that wiped the floor with every other party in the country Scotland at the general election"

Maybe a few defectors from Labour and she call the SNP a National Party.

Kranky it not just her looks and accent... Maybe she should take up pole dancing...

sturgeon sexist.jpg

Sorry! But I don't think politicians should be made fun of like this. I think it's best, just to point out the weaknesses in the policies of this lady and the Nationalist party that she leads.

Calling her a politician is an insult to many decent politicians...

[billd766]

What a nasty piece of work Nicola Sturgeon is.

Do you think Cameron is any better?

Not in the slightest.

[7by7]

<snip>

EDIT: an important factor to also consider is that 'national infrastructure projects' such as HSII, which do not benefit Scotland one iota, are exempt from the funding equation, so while we contribute to the cost of them, we do not see a corresponding rise in our funding.

Do not benefit Scotland on iota? The Scottish government do not agree with you on that!

Infrastructure Investment Plan 2011 - Updated Programme Pipeline (January 2015); Transport.

Programme

High Speed Rail (HSR)

1. Scotland's inclusion in a UK HSR network. Scheme currently proposed includes London, Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester.

2. Develop Scottish section of HSR comprising a new HSR line between Edinburgh and Glasgow, with provision to link to proposed UK network (or existing West Coast Main Line in interim period).

Benefits to Scotland

Economic and environmental benefits to Scotland, strong Benefit Cost Ratio for construction of Scottish section.

Economic and environmental benefits to Scotland. Provide first part of HSR in Scotland, with additional capacity release benefits across the existing network.

You omitted the part that said that the Scottish contribution would be £8-9 billion (over and above the contribution we are paying to the London to Leeds section) and that it is expected in 2033!

I did not quote the whole document, true; including the many other infrastructure investments in Scotland being partly, mainly or wholly funded by Westminster.

This was for space reasons and to comply with the forum rules; with which I'm sure you are familiar.

But you seem to have managed to read rest of the document ; or at least some of it.

Despite this, you have manage to ignore an important part of the bit I did quote; the part, in fact, which was the reason for my quoting it in the first place.

Read it again.

[RuamRudy]

Do not benefit Scotland on iota? The Scottish government do not agree with you on that!

Infrastructure Investment Plan 2011 - Updated Programme Pipeline (January 2015); Transport.

Programme

High Speed Rail (HSR)

1. Scotland's inclusion in a UK HSR network. Scheme currently proposed includes London, Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester.

2. Develop Scottish section of HSR comprising a new HSR line between Edinburgh and Glasgow, with provision to link to proposed UK network (or existing West Coast Main Line in interim period).

Benefits to Scotland

Economic and environmental benefits to Scotland, strong Benefit Cost Ratio for construction of Scottish section.

Economic and environmental benefits to Scotland. Provide first part of HSR in Scotland, with additional capacity release benefits across the existing network.

You omitted the part that said that the Scottish contribution would be £8-9 billion (over and above the contribution we are paying to the London to Leeds section) and that it is expected in 2033!

I did not quote the whole document, true; including the many other infrastructure investments in Scotland being partly, mainly or wholly funded by Westminster.

This was for space reasons and to comply with the forum rules; with which I'm sure you are familiar.

But you seem to have managed to read rest of the document ; or at least some of it.

Despite this, you have manage to ignore an important part of the bit I did quote; the part, in fact, which was the reason for my quoting it in the first place.

Read it again.

All expenditure is funded by Westminster so that is a bogus statement.

HS2 is classed as a National Infrastructure Project so its expenditure is not taken into account in the Barnett formula - i.e. Scots pay for it, but the investment in England is not reflected in the Scottish government's funding.

As HS2 Ltd has decided that it is not economically viable to link HS2 with Scotland, the extension north will not be a NIP. The £8-9 billion will, therefore, come from Scotland's allocation from the Barnett formula.

[7by7]

As you seem to have missed it, both in my quote and the document itself, I repeat what the SCOTTISH government itself says about the benefits of the project for SCOTLAND.

"Economic and environmental benefits to Scotland, strong Benefit Cost Ratio for construction of Scottish section.
Economic and environmental benefits to Scotland. Provide first part of HSR in Scotland, with additional capacity release benefits across the existing network."

As for your Independent article; again you are quoting an anonymous source from that article whilst ignoring the rest of it.

Just as Drew Hendry has based his tantrum in that article on that anonymous source while, like you, he has ignored what those who speak for the board officially have said.

Sir David Higgins, HS2 Ltd’s chairman, has previously hinted that an earlier report into the idea had found that enhancing existing lines was “more realistic”, but that no definitive conclusion had been reached......

......HS2 Ltd’s board minutes from December show “a further update” on a Scotland link would be handed to the board in six to 12 months. The minutes stated that there had been a presentation on Scotland that had discussed the “development of high speed rail and the enhancement of the existing route, including associated sustainability and environmental issues and topographical and geographical challenges”.

An HS2 Ltd spokesman said: “Work on improving the links to Scotland is ongoing.”

[MAJIC]

reply @ nontabury Post # 46

Too many blocks of Posts!

Well yes that must be where Sturgeon imagines where the money comes from on her war on Austerity,and the accompanying act as performed via her almost daily rants,I don't hear Scotland being mentioned as the Benefactor though. One wonders who will be the Payee should Scotland gain Independance,I guess the Scots being shrewd intelligent people have already worked out Sturgeon's massive non argument!

The more I see Sturgeon performing for the media,the more I see she has been handed the poison chalice by Alex Salmond! Just like Gordon Brown was by Tony Blair!

[nontabury]

reply @ nontabury Post # 46

Too many blocks of Posts!

Well yes that must be where Sturgeon imagines where the money comes from on her war on Austerity,and the accompanying act as performed via her almost daily rants,I don't hear Scotland being mentioned as the Benefactor though. One wonders who will be the Payee should Scotland gain Independance,I guess the Scots being shrewd intelligent people have already worked out Sturgeon's massive non argument!

The more I see Sturgeon performing for the media,the more I see she has been handed the poison chalice by Alex Salmond! Just like Gordon Brown was by Tony Blair!

Well what do you expect, all four of those people you mention,have another thing in common,they are all Scottish.

[RuamRudy]

As you seem to have missed it, both in my quote and the document itself, I repeat what the SCOTTISH government itself says about the benefits of the project for SCOTLAND.

"Economic and environmental benefits to Scotland, strong Benefit Cost Ratio for construction of Scottish section.

Economic and environmental benefits to Scotland. Provide first part of HSR in Scotland, with additional capacity release benefits across the existing network."

As for your Independent article; again you are quoting an anonymous source from that article whilst ignoring the rest of it.

Just as Drew Hendry has based his tantrum in that article on that anonymous source while, like you, he has ignored what those who speak for the board officially have said.

Sir David Higgins, HS2 Ltd’s chairman, has previously hinted that an earlier report into the idea had found that enhancing existing lines was “more realistic”, but that no definitive conclusion had been reached......

......HS2 Ltd’s board minutes from December show “a further update” on a Scotland link would be handed to the board in six to 12 months. The minutes stated that there had been a presentation on Scotland that had discussed the “development of high speed rail and the enhancement of the existing route, including associated sustainability and environmental issues and topographical and geographical challenges”.

An HS2 Ltd spokesman said: “Work on improving the links to Scotland is ongoing.”

Of course linking up to a national HS rail network would have economic benefits for Scotland - I never disputed that. My point is that the Scottish taxpayer is required to contributes 10% of the cost of the English section, but has to shoulder 100% of the cost of the Scottish section from allocated funding.

[7by7]

What's the point; like your beloved Sturgeon and your blessed Salmond before her, any facts you don't like are ignored or disparaged.

The basic fact is that Scotland gets more public money back per capita than it contributes.

BTW, is there a reason why SNP leaders are named after fish?