How far has America really progressed?

[NeverSure]

Europe will fall over first then Australia and USA.

I'm not so sure about the last part. I won't live long enough to know. There is a huge difference in the mindset of Americans toward this, and 100 million Americans refuse to give up their guns. To the contrary Americans don't trust their government and demand to be personally armed and powerful against the government. Europeans and Australians have given up personal power to governments. That's a huge gulf to cross.

The OP is actually about America. My money is on the Americans when it comes to the homeland. The same "rednecks" who are laughed at by the PC crowd would be mowing any enemy down in the streets.

By far it wouldn't be the first bloodbath on American streets executed by the citizens.

Cheers.

[otherstuff1957]

Obama's grandfather was a Muslim. His father was an atheist. His stepfather was technically a Muslim, but was not considered to be a religious man. There is no evidence that Obama is a Muslim himself.

I rather suspect that deep down the POTUS is, like most Ivy League graduates, a secular Humanist. His public Christianity is probably no more than a political pose. There a plenty of grounds for criticism of the POTUS, but I don't see that religion is one of them.

I am no fan of Colon Powell, but he was spot on in this speech:

https://youtu.be/_Ns9xN1xlQw

[canuckamuck]

Seastallion:" The man is not asking a question. He is making a statement and the statement is factually false.

It has nothing to do with being PC.

A training camp is very, very different from a terrorist cell. "

Seastallion:"It's not semantics at all. A "training camp" is very different from a cell. You claim that there are tarining camps of Muslims. You also claim that they are ISIS....and now it appears you base that on pre-ISIS incidents, and you can NOT show any evidence that there are "Muslim training camps".

I don't want to get into a discussion about semantics, but mistaking a training camp for a cell is a little like mistaking a green light for a red light. They are both a color, but still very different. I think it is would be rather difficult to have a training camp in the US and have it go undiscovered. It's possible, but highly unlikely. There are probably plenty of cells and plenty of people being tracked.

If Trump wants to impress, then he should impress with knowledge.

So you guys have no problem with the fact there are cells, but dispute that there are camps.

You do realize that cells contain the graduates of camps. It is far worse that there are cells than there are camps. But you will try to win your semantic argument and disregard that the man was actually understating the problem.

[ABCer]

Now back to OP. Though it wasn't stated in the article title, I guess the progress of America is estimated in the sense of politics, political correctness, religious beliefs, religious differences or fear of imminent faith driven violence.

Some posters reduced it to Islamophobia. Some posters deny the existence of basis for such fear.

The fear is not baseless. Otherwise it is difficult to explain many events starting from 9/11, to Boston bombing, to mass shootings in schools and churches right across America.

The explanation reducing the issue to Islamophobia is more interesting. A phobia is a psychological or psychiatric condition. The science holds that it is not baseless. Usually it is based on some memories.

Could it be based on our genetic memories of fears from 7th to 12th Centuries? Could it have been reinforced by what we see happening today in Middle East? In Europe?

I cannot speak for many other people. From different countries, of different faiths, with different life experiences.

I can only speak for myself.

I am not Religious.

I do not fear Catholics. I do not fear Jews. I do not fear Protestants. I do not fear Buddhists.

I am afraid of Muslims. I do not want to convert. I do not want to be killed. I do not want to live as a Dhimmi or a slave.

I am an Islamophobe! And I have a good reason for it.

All the Politically Correct people disapproving this can go to... Hereford and Hartwood.

" A phobia is a psychological or psychiatric condition". "I am an Islamophobe!"

Well, I suppose we should congratulate you on admitting your mental affliction.

Does this mean people have to make allowances for you, quietly tut-tutting but excusing your bigotry?

Would you make the same allowances for Judeophobes, as JT calls them?

Dear Seastallion.

I think we've met before here on TV. And I think you have learned a lesson - never get personal with me. You are welcome to argue though.

Maybe I was wrong. Maybe you forgot. Time to remind you.

Your aggressive neighing and kicking hoofs do not impress me.

Your constant, relentless bringing in Jews into any discussion on any topic is a clinical case demonstrating your personal phobia.

Since I am not your psychiatrist you should confide in him. Maybe some not quite decent Jew deflowered your mother. Maybe a Jewish girl rejected you and sent you to Thai Love Link in search of your luck.

Or simply an unscrupulous Jew have pissed in your beer in a pub. But you do have a problem. Do you know your genealogy? I feel you could have some "Palestinian" blood in you. In any case this is no problem with me.

Now, trying to annoy me like you usually do with Jing Thing will not work. First, because I have seen so many 'phobes' - you do not impress me. Second, - I know and like horses and can handle them.

All people have some kind of 'likes', 'dislikes' or phobias. As shown above - you are not exempt. Do talk to your analyst or your mother and try to get over it.

They say that being paranoid does not exclude that someone is after you.

I do have an intense dislike of Muslims. You and people like you call it a phobia. No problem. Call it what you like, just do not propose your treatment. It may work for horses, maybe even for seahorses, but not for me.

And do not try making allowances on my account. As an Islamophobe I can tolerate Jewdophobes like you. Sleep well.

[Colabamumbai]

Unfortunately it has regressed.

[Emster23]

FBI has reported more terror attacks by white supremacists than Muslim terrorists since 9/11. You could look it up.

Internet has brought great things to most of us, but also provides a means for what used to be scattered band of nut cases to connect and form a community, be it TV, ISIS, Islamophobes. They they can reinforce their own version of reality.

I would also say abandonment of "fairness doctrine" in US media has allowed organizations like Fox News to report and slant stories any way they wish, brainwashing the gullible mostly white audience who are distressed by change. They want the "good old days" when white men ruled, women knew their place, minorities stayed in line, and God (Christian, of course) was king.

[Loptr]

At first I thought this might actually be an OpEd of how the US has either progressed or regressed as a society, on which I would have been interested, but instead it turns out to be yet another hit-piece on the front-running GOP candidate run by the Nation of all rags... Why am I not surprised... The question is, who wrote it as the author is not named? It was obviously not written by the staff at the Nation because the diction is correct... My guess is was spoon fed to the media by the likes of the AP, Reuter or perhaps even the DNC... TPTB must really be scared of people they cannot control...

[Loptr]

FBI has reported more terror attacks by white supremacists than Muslim terrorists since 9/11. You could look it up.

Internet has brought great things to most of us, but also provides a means for what used to be scattered band of nut cases to connect and form a community, be it TV, ISIS, Islamophobes. They they can reinforce their own version of reality.

I would also say abandonment of "fairness doctrine" in US media has allowed organizations like Fox News to report and slant stories any way they wish, brainwashing the gullible mostly white audience who are distressed by change. They want the "good old days" when white men ruled, women knew their place, minorities stayed in line, and God (Christian, of course) was king.

No, if you are going to make a hair-brained assertion, then you need to provide a reference... Like this one...

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/americanattacks.htm

Islamic Terror Attacks on American Soil

You might not know it from the grand pity party that vocal Muslims seem to have thrown forthemselves in the years since 9/11, but only one Muslim in America was killed in a vigilante "revenge" attack following the horrific slaughter of thousands in the name of Allah. That would be Waqar Hasan, a Muslim convenience storeowner who was gunned down by Mark Anthony Stroman in Texas. Hardly an average American, Stroman was a white supremacist with a felony criminal record who went on to shoot two more people in the following weeks. However, he did claim to be motivated by anger after having watched the twin towers fall.

For anyone keeping score

People killed by radical Muslims on 9/11: 2,996 Muslim-Americans killed "in revenge": 1

Edited September 20, 2015 by Loptr

[GeorgesAbitbol]

What Muslim country welcomes Christians ? I cant think of any. Muslims are the most intolerant hateful people on the planet. Virtually all terrosist attacks can be blamed on muslims.

There are hundreds of mosques in Europe. How many cathedrals are there in saudi Arabia, Iran or UAE?

How many ISIS terrorists and criminals have mingled in with the millions of economic refugees from Syria and other backwater places?

The Christian world is welcoming these rejects which explains why Christianity is in decline and many are converting to Buddhism and Hinduism or nothing at all.

Refugees are not legitimate migrants. Migrants have a documented medical history and many have financial means.. Refugees have neither.

The biggest threat to the west is all these mindless minority socialists and PC do-gooders who despise , loathe and publicly ridcule everyone that disagrees with their pathetic social engineering agenda..

Europe will fall over first then Australia and USA.

Well actually Assad is defending the Christian community, but US and Europe will not trumpet about this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Syria

And about the migrant, guess why they flee to europe?

Wo started to destabilize the countries they lived in? Which countries are responsibles for the problems in Irak, Syria, Lybia...

Many told the politicians that it would create an immigration flux never seen before...but greed was too strong...and now USA eur Europe pay the price of their actions...

Edited September 20, 2015 by GeorgesAbitbol

[Basil B]

Obama's grandfather was a Muslim. His father was an atheist. His stepfather was technically a Muslim, but was not considered to be a religious man. There is no evidence that Obama is a Muslim himself.

I rather suspect that deep down the POTUS is, like most Ivy League graduates, a secular Humanist. His public Christianity is probably no more than a political pose. There a plenty of grounds for criticism of the POTUS, but I don't see that religion is one of them.

I am no fan of Colon Powell, but he was spot on in this speech:

https://youtu.be/_Ns9xN1xlQw

Probably understands Muslims better than most Americans...

Not forgetting it was he who had the final say and authorised the "trespass" in to Pakistan to take out Bin Ladin, something he could have legitimately vetoed.

[Scott]

Please keep your comments on topic and civil. Address the issues of the thread and not other posters, please.

[Seastallion]

Now back to OP. Though it wasn't stated in the article title, I guess the progress of America is estimated in the sense of politics, political correctness, religious beliefs, religious differences or fear of imminent faith driven violence.

Some posters reduced it to Islamophobia. Some posters deny the existence of basis for such fear.

The fear is not baseless. Otherwise it is difficult to explain many events starting from 9/11, to Boston bombing, to mass shootings in schools and churches right across America.

The explanation reducing the issue to Islamophobia is more interesting. A phobia is a psychological or psychiatric condition. The science holds that it is not baseless. Usually it is based on some memories.

Could it be based on our genetic memories of fears from 7th to 12th Centuries? Could it have been reinforced by what we see happening today in Middle East? In Europe?

I cannot speak for many other people. From different countries, of different faiths, with different life experiences.

I can only speak for myself.

I am not Religious.

I do not fear Catholics. I do not fear Jews. I do not fear Protestants. I do not fear Buddhists.

I am afraid of Muslims. I do not want to convert. I do not want to be killed. I do not want to live as a Dhimmi or a slave.

I am an Islamophobe! And I have a good reason for it.

All the Politically Correct people disapproving this can go to... Hereford and Hartwood.

" A phobia is a psychological or psychiatric condition". "I am an Islamophobe!"

Well, I suppose we should congratulate you on admitting your mental affliction.

Does this mean people have to make allowances for you, quietly tut-tutting but excusing your bigotry?

Would you make the same allowances for Judeophobes, as JT calls them?

Dear Seastallion.

I think we've met before here on TV. And I think you have learned a lesson - never get personal with me. You are welcome to argue though.

Maybe I was wrong. Maybe you forgot. Time to remind you.

Your aggressive neighing and kicking hoofs do not impress me.

Your constant, relentless bringing in Jews into any discussion on any topic is a clinical case demonstrating your personal phobia.

Since I am not your psychiatrist you should confide in him. Maybe some not quite decent Jew deflowered your mother. Maybe a Jewish girl rejected you and sent you to Thai Love Link in search of your luck.

Or simply an unscrupulous Jew have pissed in your beer in a pub. But you do have a problem. Do you know your genealogy? I feel you could have some "Palestinian" blood in you. In any case this is no problem with me.

Now, trying to annoy me like you usually do with Jing Thing will not work. First, because I have seen so many 'phobes' - you do not impress me. Second, - I know and like horses and can handle them.

All people have some kind of 'likes', 'dislikes' or phobias. As shown above - you are not exempt. Do talk to your analyst or your mother and try to get over it.

They say that being paranoid does not exclude that someone is after you.

I do have an intense dislike of Muslims. You and people like you call it a phobia. No problem. Call it what you like, just do not propose your treatment. It may work for horses, maybe even for seahorses, but not for me.

And do not try making allowances on my account. As an Islamophobe I can tolerate Jewdophobes like you. Sleep well.

You have never taught me a lesson, except perhaps from observing your posts I may have learnt not to write silly nonsense.

Silly nonsense #1. What getting personal? What neighing and kicking? What aggressiveness? All silly and inaccurate comments by you.

I replied to your post WITH YOUR WORDS, your admission that you have a psychological or psychiatric disorder. You put it put out there, so you should expect someone to comment on it. I did, with with a pleasantry; "I suppose we should congratulate you...". Again, I pleasantly congratulate you on you going public. It does take some courage and insight to confess to a mental condition.

Following on from the pleasantry, I asked a reasonable question, Society (at least the society that I'm used to) usually makes allowances when a person is afflicted. We don't get offended, for example, when a Tourettes sufferer bursts out with something rude.

Silly nonsense #2. I do not bring "Jews into any discussion on any topic". This is a demonstrable lie on your part.

Silly nonsense#3. I have no phobia, of Jews or anything else. You are projecting now that your self-confessed phobia is out in the public domain. Please don't. It's silly and only highlights your own insecurity regarding your own phobia.

Silly nonsense #4. All those horrid suggestions about me are only a reflection of how your mind works. De-flowering my mother, rejection by a girl, and pissing in my beer show some deep-seated problems. It appears your advice to me to confide in a shrink is another projection of yours.

Silly nonsense #5. Bringing up my genealogy. Why???

Silly nonsense #6. Trying to annoy you? Projecting again. See #1.

Silly nonsense #7. I don't try to annoy JT. How could I possibly when he has me on ignore? Did he tell you I annoy him? He never told me.

Silly nonsense #8. Horses?

Silly nonsense # 9. Suggesting I talk to my mother or analyst...projecting again.

Silly nonsense # 10. "I do have an intense dislike of Muslims. You and people like you call it a phobia.". YOU called it a phobia and YOU called it a " psychological or psychiatric condition". Don't blame me for YOUR words, and don't project.

Silly nonsense #11. Your entire post in it's entirety .

Please note, I have not got personal with you, as you have done with me, except to comment pleasantly about your self-confessed mental condition.

Please don't get personal again, for your own good as it highlights some of your problems.

[Publicus]

What people outside of America don't get is that the majority of Americans don't think the same as that racist dude...or even Trump. I would imagine some non-Americans tuning in to that GOP debate think that the only people running for POTUS were on that stage. So damage is already being done internationally in terms of people's perception of the USA. But the GOP is not America and is becoming more irrelevant by the day. We should thank Trump for this, although the Huckabee's and Cruz's of that party are even more dangerous. This will all blow over in 2016 when the Dems win yet again...no matter who comes out from that party.

A couple of the television networks focused on the people seated behind Trump at that rally to show their negative reaction to the crackpot's question. Several people shown were grimacing or shaking their head no or turning to look at one another in mutual shock. The experience was an education for more than a few in the Trump crowd.

[sgtsabai]

The website referred to, "The Religion of Peace", is nothing but a hate spewing right wing site.

"If you visit JihadWatch, AtlasShrugs or any of the too numerous to count anti-Muslim hate sites and blogs, you are likely to find on the sidebar a hyperlinked image claiming that Islamic Terrorists have carried out more than _____ Deadly Terror Attacks Since 9/11. The image was created by the anti-Islam hate site, The Religion of Peace (TROP), associated with Islamophobe Daniel Greenfield, aka SultanKnish, who you will recall earns a pretty penny from the David Horowitz Freedom Center."

http://r.duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&uddg=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.loonwatch.com%2Ftag%2Fthe-religion-of-peace%2F

The original post on the question of terrorist attacks never mentioned terrorist attacks against muslims, just white terrorist attacks.

http://r.duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&uddg=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2015%2F06%2F25%2Fus%2Ftally-of-attacks-in-us-challenges-perceptions-of-top-terror-threat.html

http://r.duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&uddg=http%3A%2F%2Ffusion.net%2Fstory%2F155989%2Freport-more-americans-have-been-killed-by-white-supremacists-than-muslim-extremists-since-911%2F

http://r.duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&uddg=http%3A%2F%2Farchive.adl.org%2Fnr%2Fexeres%2Ffaf397e9-96e6-4a7a-89d4-1968e1a44a15%2Cdb7611a2-02cd-43af-8147-649e26813571%2Cframeless.html

[squarethecircle]

As far as the bigotry claim, at 0:47 Trump clearly states "most Muslims are wonderful people." Why is it that leftists think that anyone who does not conform to their narrow worldview is a bigot?

He's a bigot because he makes it out to be the entire religion. "There's a Muslim problem" is clear. He tries to mitigate it by saying "most Muslims are wonderful people", but that doesn't cut it. If he thinks it's just a few, then he should say "There's a problem with a few Muslims".

He chooses to encompass the entire group.

Well it's similar to saying "There is a Roman Catholic Church problem" in Spain in 1500 or modern times with the sex abuse scandal. Doesn't mean you're an anti-Catholic bigot, even if you don't add on the "I know it's only a minority of Catholics that are problematic". So why saying there is a "Muslim problem" mean you're a bigot?

[IAMHERE]

A Thai newspaper lecturing America on racism and internal politics. Got to love it.

[chumpy]

The incident at New Hampshire was not the only the bigotry Americans face. There are plenty of other examples and incidents. The challenge is what one is to do about it.

That is really rich coming from a news organization in a country where racism and bigotry are not the exception but the norm. How about "How far has Thailand really progressed?" Sweep around your own front door comes to mind.

"The nation" has just forced one of it's top journalists out because he had criticized the military government,aren't journalists supposed to be critical of things?to offer checks and balances?I will never buy a nation newspaper again,what a load of spineless sissies.Maybe the journalist was not Thai enough.

[Jingthing]

A Thai newspaper lecturing America on racism and internal politics. Got to love it.

Yeah, the USA had a SOUTHERN separatist war going but that ended in the 1860s.

Thailand maybe look in the mirror.

Of course, the USA is far from perfect.

Trump is just a clown show and not to be taken seriously.

But there are serious human rights issues that I often wish attracted more international pressure and attention.

For example, the shockingly high incarceration rates in the USA and their obvious links to race, poverty, and a legal "justice" system too eager to throw away young lives before they're really started.

That's something more associated with hard core totalitarian police states.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Jingthing

[elgordo38]

Is it insulting to Muslims to call Obama a Muslim, or is it insulting to Obama to be called a Muslim? I mean if the progressives are all hot about making Muslims as American as apple pie, surely calling the president one should not get the same reaction as if this man committed a hate crime.

As far as there being camps where Muslims are plotting the death of Americans, clearly this is true. ISIS and others have cells everywhere,

I don't know who, or even if either scenario is insulting. It is factually incorrect. That's all. Sadly, it is used to denigrate a person and to malalign a religion.

It is fear mongering at it's best. Terrorist cells are quite different from training camps.

Trump is getting to be more of a disappointment every day and every time he opens his mouth. There is very little substance.

True but his comrades in this dog and pony show look far worse. All I hear them say is death to women's rights (abortion and Planned Parenthood) build a wall across the US Canadian border, triple the number of border guards at the south end and throttle the rich(Bernie Sanders) not that I have any love for the rich as they are not paying their fair share of taxes. They hide their money with impunity off shore along with all the good American jobs that they have transferred there. The screws should be tightened on these scumbags somewhat but you cannot choke them to death as Sanders indicates.

[hakuho]

Trump's 'non-reaction' is to his credit...what was he supposed to say, "...you are wrong, I happen to know that Obama is not a Muslim" ? He doesn't know; but I think the question now should be-what brand of Muslim is Obama faithful to? Is he Shia or Sunni? Some would say Shia because of his embracing Iran...if anyone can seriously doubt that Islam has one of their own occupying the WH I suggest reading "American Jihad", a book by Steve Emerson, who has had stealth Muslims reporting from inside several American mosques for years...but I advise you to not read it if you are unwilling to wake the F*** up.

[sfokevin]

^^^ the vast majority of Americans think this kind of talk is nutty...

[ggt]

There is an apparent deep divide on what should be said and how questions like this should be answered...

The larger question looms over us...call them what you will...what is going to happen to the world if those folks who want to conquer the world...are allowed tot continue lopping off heads of so-called infidels? These folks (Muslims) must be dealt with...not down the road but now...with a coalition of countries and people willing to take a stand again raw, premeditated, inhumane, religious induced aggression...

We do not need a nice, politically correct, whinny, hand-wringer leading the charge... IMHO

Edited September 20, 2015 by ggt

[zzo]

Everyone has opinions. How many of you have lived in America? How many were around in the 60's? How many have traveled in Moslem countries? How many have been recently to observe the Muslem invasion in Europe? How many of you have experienced racism against you, and you are white. I have seen history rewritten hundreds Of times. You don't know what you are talking about unless you were or are there.

[maidee]

USA nr 1

but none of the good things

not in health, not in education, ...

in starting wars yes, in spending on military yes, in killings by guns yes

[NeverSure]

USA nr 1

but none of the good things

not in health, not in education, ...

in starting wars yes, in spending on military yes, in killings by guns yes

not in health, not in education, ...

The US is #1 in both. Education brought you the tech age including your computer and the internet you're using and the software you're using. Get used to it.

#1 in health in that the socialist systems are failing the people with long wait lists and effective rationing. In the US the system is private enterprise and they compete for your business. You can get awesome service - today.

In killings by guns yes.

Knock it off. The puzzies in Europe gave up their guns and trusted their governments to protect them and just look what's happening. The governments have turned against the people and the people have no power. The people gave up their guns not knowing that some day they would need personal power to defend themselves.

100 million Americans have known not to trust governments and have refused to give up their guns. America would be the last place to get overrun by Muslims and the people will see to it in the streets if necessary.

I'm going to live to see the day when traditional Europeans and Australians are begging for guns but can't get them. The cowards are afraid of their own shadows so they hide behind their government while the government is attacking their very way of life.

To survive what's happening you'd need to come to America where men are real men, and you could crouch down behind them while they take care of business.

Cheers.

Edited September 20, 2015 by NeverSure

[thaibeachlovers]

Is it insulting to Muslims to call Obama a Muslim, or is it insulting to Obama to be called a Muslim? I mean if the progressives are all hot about making Muslims as American as apple pie, surely calling the president one should not get the same reaction as if this man committed a hate crime.

As far as there being camps where Muslims are plotting the death of Americans, clearly this is true. ISIS and others have cells everywhere,

I don't know who, or even if either scenario is insulting. It is factually incorrect. That's all. Sadly, it is used to denigrate a person and to malalign a religion.

It is fear mongering at it's best. Terrorist cells are quite different from training camps.

Trump is getting to be more of a disappointment every day and every time he opens his mouth. There is very little substance.

Hollywood has been indoctrinating Americans for years that Muslims are bad people that want to kill them. Better start looking to change Hollywood if you want to change attitudes to Muslims. BTW, who controls Hollywood- think about it!

Trump will continue to become more popular, if he sticks to attacking professional politicians. They are the new hate figures, with good reason.

However, I doubt he will become President. Enough people want handouts from the state to elect a woman crook, rather than take a chance of an outsider that wants to try and change things.

[Pinot]

It's hard to argue with crazy.

The right wing is so far out there...

[razer]

Interesting ... Radical Islam attacked the WTC killing 3,000, and the Pentagon, then the Boston Marathon, and they attack in the UK, France and Spain screaming Allahu Akbar when they kill ... they are the SWORD of ISLAM as it is written in the Quran.

NOW Muslims are VICTIMS of animosity in the West. It's our frigg'n fault. We are the intolerant bad guys.

If there is animosity towards Muslims, it was earned by their jihadist brothers and sisters. They should turn their anger to those who kill non Muslims in the name of their religion. Their silence is the same as approval.

[zierf1]

He's playing the Putin card. This guy is slime.

[NeverSure]

Hollywood has been indoctrinating Americans for years that Muslims are bad people that want to kill them. Better start looking to change Hollywood if you want to change attitudes to Muslims. BTW, who controls Hollywood- think about it!

"Hollywood The Six O'clock News has been indoctrinating Americans for years that Muslims are bad people that want to kill them by showing actual acts of terrorism including huge and gruesome bombings and beheadings."

I was "indoctrinated" when I was called to the TV to watch planes fly into the twin towers. "9/11 - Never forget".

Don't worry. I won't forget.