Strange experience at a well known Chiang Mai hospital

[Konini]

If you think you're suffering a heart attack or stroke and it's at all convenient, the best place to go would be the emergency room at University Hospital on Suthep Rd -- known as Suan Dok Hospital or Maharaj Hospital. They have doctors in the E/R 24/7 -- at least resident doctors and they are very good at responding to life-threatening emergencies. They can get higher level doctors in quickly and they have the appropriate equipment at the ready.

Once you're stabilized, you can be admitted to Sripat Hospital, the private hospital that is part of the University Hospital complex or to Suan Dok hospital, the economically priced government hospital. The same emergency room serves both hospitals.

Other hospitals in the area may not have the appropriate equipment, personnel or drugs at hand to help you and minutes count when you're having a Heart Attack or Stroke.

Thank you for that information Nancy, I always had a plan in my mind that whilst very happy with the treatment received at Rajevej and now McCormack as we live closer, that in the case of chest pains we would head to Ram. Of course the university hospital will be better, I really should have thought of that.

Mr K is not good in the case of emergency, and I've been thinking of putting together a what to do if this or that happens while waiting for an ambulance. Does anyone know of a good link to get the information for all kinds of emergency or a collection of links that I can work off and then print off for him? I will be happy to share it with anyone who wants it once complete; I have a knack for writing easy to read, easy to follow instructions.

(I used to write instruction sheets for elderly people connecting to our internet service back in the days of Windows 3.1 when nothing was automated and users had to configure their browser, mail program, Windows and Trumpet, the TCP/IP program I deemed easiest for beginners to configure. Every single person managed to get online, although some complained that the instructions were too simplistic.)

[Oscar2]

said it once, will say it again....best thing to do is like the Thais do......put the patient in the back of a pick-up truck and head to the hospital of your choice - although i would go with the advice of NancyL as i have been at Maharaj to visit someone and seen the M.D.'s there in the middle of the night (some were young American kids - interns? i guess).

the whole thing with the 1669 guys and girls, as good as i think they are.....they seem to like to choose where they want to take you as i imagine there is some incentive for them to bring patients to certain hospitals.

i can think of another hospital that does not always have an M.D. there in the middle of the night - but is a phone call away; Ruam Phaet. lousy hospital but many backpackers stay in cheap hostels nearby so probably give business after bar fights, moto injuries, food poisoning from cheap food and so forth.

[Konini]

I have been told by a reliable source that the 'ambulances' if you can call them that (no equipment and not even basic first aid kit or skills in the one I was in, very effective lights and sirens though) that the are paid a commission by the hospital they take you to.

Last year Mr K was hit by a truck (which didn't even slow down) and broke his collarbone and 4 ribs, but a combination of alcohol and shock left him without pain and a member of the walking wounded, fortunately with no broken skin. An ambulance was passing and stopped, and was most insistent that he get in. He declined to and when it was evident that he was going home, he was rather aggressively asked for money. It was demanded really. He just got into a songtaew and that was that. Slept it off and I took him to McCormack the next morning (by which time he was feeling rather sorry for himself).

I really hesitate to call them ambulances, rather just delivery vans who head for the hospital they are contracted to or is paying the most. Please don't make the mistake of relying on them for anything more than transport, and if someone in your household or a neighbour is able to take you (depending on the emergency of course), save yourself the wait and go with them.

[Awk]

I have been told by a reliable source that the 'ambulances' if you can call them that (no equipment and not even basic first aid kit or skills in the one I was in, very effective lights and sirens though) that the are paid a commission by the hospital they take you to.

Last year Mr K was hit by a truck (which didn't even slow down) and broke his collarbone and 4 ribs, but a combination of alcohol and shock left him without pain and a member of the walking wounded, fortunately with no broken skin. An ambulance was passing and stopped, and was most insistent that he get in. He declined to and when it was evident that he was going home, he was rather aggressively asked for money. It was demanded really. He just got into a songtaew and that was that. Slept it off and I took him to McCormack the next morning (by which time he was feeling rather sorry for himself).

I really hesitate to call them ambulances, rather just delivery vans who head for the hospital they are contracted to or is paying the most. Please don't make the mistake of relying on them for anything more than transport, and if someone in your household or a neighbour is able to take you (depending on the emergency of course), save yourself the wait and go with them.

I once saw a farang laying on the road, and some Thais around, apparently trying to help. I didn't feel I had anything to add medical wise, but since Mrs. Awk was with me, I stopped in case we could help him with some translation between English and Thai, if nothing else. A few minutes later one of these "ambulances" showed up, and I'd have to say they at the very least did have basic skills.

The injured man had a lot of pain in his ankle, which I guess was broken (a hit and run if I remember correctly, with some Thais having written down the license plate number of the hit and run driver). I tried to help him as he asked for, to the extent I was comfortable in doing without accidently making things worse, not having even basic skills.

The ambulance guys however seemed to quite quickly understand the problem and attached some support to his leg/foot. This seemed to alleviate most of the pain/pressure he was complaining about. What hospital they took him to I don't know, but they did indeed have some basic skills (and perhaps more, I'm not qualified to judge) and some basic equipment.

Another time I saw from a window a similar ambulance arriving after an accident, and they lifted the injured up in the "ambulance" on a stretcher, so they also seemed to have some basic equipment, and skills presumably.

Whether they are paid commision I don't have any idea of. It seems unlikely to me anyone would give of his own time to freely drive around and help strangers in need, presumably paying for the gas himself, and perhaps even the car. Certainly not something I would do (though I know for certain there are people who are much kinder and more generous to strangers than I), so I guess there must be something in it for them, other than just good karma.

[northernjohn]

I have been told by a reliable source that the 'ambulances' if you can call them that (no equipment and not even basic first aid kit or skills in the one I was in, very effective lights and sirens though) that the are paid a commission by the hospital they take you to.

Last year Mr K was hit by a truck (which didn't even slow down) and broke his collarbone and 4 ribs, but a combination of alcohol and shock left him without pain and a member of the walking wounded, fortunately with no broken skin. An ambulance was passing and stopped, and was most insistent that he get in. He declined to and when it was evident that he was going home, he was rather aggressively asked for money. It was demanded really. He just got into a songtaew and that was that. Slept it off and I took him to McCormack the next morning (by which time he was feeling rather sorry for himself).

I really hesitate to call them ambulances, rather just delivery vans who head for the hospital they are contracted to or is paying the most. Please don't make the mistake of relying on them for anything more than transport, and if someone in your household or a neighbour is able to take you (depending on the emergency of course), save yourself the wait and go with them.

I once saw a farang laying on the road, and some Thais around, apparently trying to help. I didn't feel I had anything to add medical wise, but since Mrs. Awk was with me, I stopped in case we could help him with some translation between English and Thai, if nothing else. A few minutes later one of these "ambulances" showed up, and I'd have to say they at the very least did have basic skills.

The injured man had a lot of pain in his ankle, which I guess was broken (a hit and run if I remember correctly, with some Thais having written down the license plate number of the hit and run driver). I tried to help him as he asked for, to the extent I was comfortable in doing without accidently making things worse, not having even basic skills.

The ambulance guys however seemed to quite quickly understand the problem and attached some support to his leg/foot. This seemed to alleviate most of the pain/pressure he was complaining about. What hospital they took him to I don't know, but they did indeed have some basic skills (and perhaps more, I'm not qualified to judge) and some basic equipment.

Another time I saw from a window a similar ambulance arriving after an accident, and they lifted the injured up in the "ambulance" on a stretcher, so they also seemed to have some basic equipment, and skills presumably.

Whether they are paid commision I don't have any idea of. It seems unlikely to me anyone would give of his own time to freely drive around and help strangers in need, presumably paying for the gas himself, and perhaps even the car. Certainly not something I would do (though I know for certain there are people who are much kinder and more generous to strangers than I), so I guess there must be something in it for them, other than just good karma.

A little off topic but NewsAsia had a special on them in KL it is indeed a business where they receive money from the hospitals. Yes some of them do have some basic skills.

[Oscar2]

A little off topic but NewsAsia had a special on them in KL it is indeed a business where they receive money from the hospitals. Yes some of them do have some basic skills.

some of them are VERY well trained; particularly in Bangkok. it's an all volunteer organization, done to earn Buddhist merit. some of them invest as much as one million Bath into their own vehicles and have cardio equipment and life saving gear in there. i saw them respond to a call where a man had been on the floor alone for one week with only a little water; unable to get up to answer his phone as out of town relatives were endlessly calling as they were worried. the 1669 guys broke into the house, found him, and tested the man's blood, monitored his heart, etc. they gave numerous injections, gave IV's - and saved the mans life. his blood sugar was 8 mg/dL as i recall. he was within minutes from dying.

[Konini]

That's good to know - the one I was in came from the hospital itself and it was known before phoning for it that I wouldn't need any equipment or expertise (I had a one-off and still unexplained seizure and it was a doctor who phoned for it).

They may have different vehicles for picking people up that are like patient transports perhaps???

[fang37]

The only things of importance to me when I am an in-patient - quality & size of poo potty & a quality finish at the top of the pee-potty important too. Scraping my "thingy"on it hurts.

I am a demanding patient!

[Jeffkp]

Suffered chest pains about 5 weeks ago. I went to CM RAM emergency room. Got me in quickly and called a cardiologist. Tests proved inconclusive for a heart attack. He wanted to admit me and do an angiogram (SP?) the next day.

Was taken in to do the procedure and the equipment software would not boot up. Tried for an hour, called tech support, etc. Doctor told me they would have to send a technician from Bangkok.It would take up to three days. He offered to move me to another hospital and do it or reschedule. I chose to reschedule. Took 6 days to get the call. Was scheduled to do the procedure on a Sunday. Saturday evening I couldn't breath. I know it was heart failure and went back to the emergency room. Saturday is my doctor's day off. The ER people called him and he prescribed an diuretic and oxygen.

He came in early Sunday and did the procedure. I had one block and he inserted a stent.

I have no problems with the care I've received.

However... I have excellent insurance. I knew the cardiac procedure wold be expensive. The hospital told me if they received a "guarantee letter" from the insurance company they would bill them directly. I called my insurance and they gave me a detail list of what info they would require. I wrote it down and took it to the hospital with me.

The day I was released billing told me they had not yet received the letter. The bill was for 400,000 Bhat. I could leave my passport while they waited. I did and called my insurance when I got home. The info the hospital submitted made no sense. My admission date was three weeks earlier, etc.

I went back the next day and paid the bill. I've submitted the claim for reimbursement.

A week latter I went back to the hospital with a friend who had an appointment. While I was waiting, the lady who I had dealt with regarding my insurance dropped by. During our conversation, she let drop that the insurance companies wait 30 days before paying a claim and they don't like that. I think they deliberately screwed up to force me to pay cash up front!

Anyone else had this happen?

[alfieconn]

Any info on the Emergency Service available at the Bangkok hospital in Chiang Mai.

[uptheos]

Any info on the Emergency Service available at the Bangkok hospital in Chiang Mai.

http://www.bangkokhospital-chiangmai.com/en/centers-and-clinics/trauma-and-emergency-services/

[CMfoodie]

One of the realities you must face when moving to Chiang Mai is health care, among many other issues.

You want a CHEAP way of life but expect expert internationally trained physicians to be at your beck and call. It isn’t going to happen.

[jonwilly]

Got out of RAM this morning following my Operation.

Dr B and the Nursing staff did their normal good job, I have praise for all especially the young Nurse Assistants who where on call through the night as and when I needed them.

Dr B wielded his Scalpel or perhaps his Scimitar, Big job and now I am no longer a Cavalier but a Roundhead.

Slight discomfort for first hour of two, in the recovery room and after that no pain or even soreness, apart from the first three times I passed water when a quick instant pain was felt as 'Dried Blood" was flushed out.

Heavy swelling of the Testicle/Scrotum area and it looked like a chipolata surrounded by two big dark red elongated orbs on first night.

Now swelling is slowly subsiding but I do need to take care when sitting or lying down.

Cost was B91K for three nights in RAM and Surgery, medical and drugs plus a free taxi home.

I have an appointment with Dr B who is regarded by all I know as CM's best Urologist in mid November by when things should be back to normal down south.

john

Little John

Edited September 29, 2015 by jonwilly

[Saan]

As they say, it's the doctor not the hospital that's important.

I am sure you are right.

I went to Suan Dok casualty on a Sunday with fibrillation and the treatment was very good.

I was subsequently referred to their cardio clinic which is in the Sriphat building.

There a young cardiologist brought me as close to death as I have ever been. She prescribed some medication and ordered some more of the blood pressure medication I had been using.

It certainly worked, as early in the morning my blood pressure dropped to 70/40, my pulse rate to 40 and I went into fibrillation.

Talk about a candle in the wind.

I went to a private doctor who told me that that cardiologist had doubled the dosage of blood pressure medication and that I had been very lucky.

There are some very good doctors in CM, I was just unlucky because I didn't get to choose and do due diligence.

[chiang mai]

I was instructed to have a sailogram done at Suan Dok, this is where they insert a catheter into the salivary gland inside you cheek and then xray before and after eating a lemon to watch the fluids flow path. Poor woman doctor at SD had never performed a sailogram in her life but wasn't about to loose face by not trying. After twenty minutes of poking around my mouth with the catheter she gave up and walked away without explanation. A nurse then approached me and said the doctor had instructed I be given an ultra sound exam instead, an exam which doesn't even begin to compare to the sailogram. It was almost a funny experience and when I recited it later to a well known head and neck surgeon he laughed and shook his head.

[alfieconn]

Any info on the Emergency Service available at the Bangkok hospital in Chiang Mai.

http://www.bangkokhospital-chiangmai.com/en/centers-and-clinics/trauma-and-emergency-services/

Up's, i was more thinking if anyone had first hand experience of their Emergency medical Services.

[Asiantravel]

This would not be a situation of name and shame, but could be a life threatening instance. I think you should mention the name of the hospital. It just may save someones life. If your facts are all as stated, then name the hospital. i wouldn't want to go to an emergency room that was not staffed.

" . If your facts are all as stated, then name the hospital. "

you are clearly unfamiliar with the anomalies of the Thai law relating to defamation? Even if the facts are as stated it still doesn't prevent you from being sued for defamation. I certainly wouldn't be posting their names in a public forum.

[uptheos]

Any info on the Emergency Service available at the Bangkok hospital in Chiang Mai.

http://www.bangkokhospital-chiangmai.com/en/centers-and-clinics/trauma-and-emergency-services/

Up's, i was more thinking if anyone had first hand experience of their Emergency medical Services.

Don't think anyone goes there, it's a bit of a white elephant.

[alfieconn]

Any info on the Emergency Service available at the Bangkok hospital in Chiang Mai.

http://www.bangkokhospital-chiangmai.com/en/centers-and-clinics/trauma-and-emergency-services/

Up's, i was more thinking if anyone had first hand experience of their Emergency medical Services.

Don't think anyone goes there, it's a bit of a white elephant.

The only reason i was asking that it is a lot closer for many people than either Ram or Suan Doc and in case of an emergency minutes could be vital.

[uptheos]

Don't think anyone goes there, it's a bit of a white elephant.

The only reason i was asking that it is a lot closer for many people than either Ram or Suan Doc and in case of an emergency minutes could be vital.

Well just to let you know, if you require urgent neurosurgery the only listed neurosurgeon at BH trained in acupuncture for military doctors in the Thai army and worked at some flight surgeon course in the Thai Air Force!

As they say Up2U but looking at their staff I think they're a bit thin on the ground and yes minutes do count especially if you need to be moved again if the only specialist listed is unable to do what's needed. It would be off to Suan Dok and a fairly large bill accompanying you for services rendered no doubt.

http://www.bangkokhospital-chiangmai.com/en/centers-and-clinics/neurosurgery-clinic/index.php

Edited September 30, 2015 by uptheos

[chiang mai]

This is one of those rare occasions where I will suggest that the hospital is more important than the doctor, in an emergency, out of hours, Suan Doc/Mahraj is the only game in town.

[NancyL]

This is one of those rare occasions where I will suggest that the hospital is more important than the doctor, in an emergency, out of hours, Suan Doc/Mahraj is the only game in town.

And scoop up the person in need of care by whatever means possible and get them there as quickly as possible. There is no loss of dignity with someone arriving on the floor of a tuk-tuk. Often they are the best vehicle for maneuvering in Chiang Mai traffic.

Edited September 30, 2015 by NancyL

[jphantom]

There's typically only a single doctor on duty overnight at RAM and that for the emergency dept AND the in patients, specialists are however on call although typically the Provincial Hospital (right around the corner) is the first escalation point - it's likely that the ER doctor that night was called elsewhere in the hospital. I don't know of any hospital in Chiang Mai that has a cardiologist on duty, 24 hours a day.

[jphantom]

Medical skills range widely at Ram. Experience in dermatology, opthamology, plastic surgery (leg) and cancerous tumor surgical removal. My ER experience and diagnosis of leg infection was disastrous. Mis-diagnosis of my leg cost me major surgery and 4 months in hospital following complicated skin graft (plastic surgery). Good doctor - inept doctor - Russian roulette … beware.

[flyDelight]

I found RAM excellent in case of an emergency. An operation was performed that night - midnight?

Not cheap - DAMN EXPENSIVE. But necessary.

The orthopedic surgeon was employed at a government hospital during the day.

No more RAM for me! When I had a serious pain in my bottom the did an X-ray, they said 'this is an old hip fracture that hurts' W TF?? 'I never had a hip fracture!' 'Yes sir I can see this is old hip fracture, look here' and 'we give you medicines for pain'. 'Keep them', I said.

Paying $4 for the X-ray I left, I was really worried and decided to fly to Europe the next day. I had a serious abcess and needed immediate surgery, stayed 5 weeks, my life had been in serious danger if that abcess would break open.

A friend had a stroke and needed immediate care but could not afford it that week. RAM demanded his passport as deposit making him miss his visarun and got in bigger problems.

With help of the tourist police he got his passport back and manage his overstay.

RAM is NOT allowed to keep your passport as a deposit.

Also the way they let a nurse accompany you to the ATM to avoid you running away with a debt is rediculous, bunch if crooks.

The only people I respect there are the lovely cleaning ladies, the rest is mentally preoccupied with their status and ego.

Edited January 5, 2016 by flyDelight

[Sheryl]

As NancyL said, the best place to go is the University Hosp ER.

In a true emergency, government hospitals are usually advisable and definitely if it is after hours.

Not only do they have house staff present 24/7 (not true in private hospitals, though some may arrange to hire 1-2 to be available for the ER) but their ER staff have by far the most experience in dealing with emergencies of all types.

[elektrified]

I found RAM excellent in case of an emergency. An operation was performed that night - midnight?

Not cheap - DAMN EXPENSIVE. But necessary.

The orthopedic surgeon was employed at a government hospital during the day.

No more RAM for me! When I had a serious pain in my bottom the did an X-ray, they said 'this is an old hip fracture that hurts' W TF?? 'I never had a hip fracture!' 'Yes sir I can see this is old hip fracture, look here' and 'we give you medicines for pain'. 'Keep them', I said.

Paying $4 for the X-ray I left, I was really worried and decided to fly to Europe the next day. I had a serious abcess and needed immediate surgery, stayed 5 weeks, my life had been in serious danger if that abcess would break open.

A friend had a stroke and needed immediate care but could not afford it that week. RAM demanded his passport as deposit making him miss his visarun and got in bigger problems.

With help of the tourist police he got his passport back and manage his overstay.

RAM is NOT allowed to keep your passport as a deposit.

Also the way they let a nurse accompany you to the ATM to avoid you running away with a debt is rediculous, bunch if crooks.

The only people I respect there are the lovely cleaning ladies, the rest is mentally preoccupied with their status and ego.

Hospitals in Thailand absolutely can (and will) keep your passport if you are unable to pay your bill. Hospital staff accompanying patients whether Thai, other Asians, or farangs to ATM's is common practice in Thailand. How are they crooks? Get real. They are also known to drive a non-paying patient home in a luxury mini-van and camp out in front of the person's home for as long as it takes for the person to come up with the money to pay their hospital bill. 2 guys sat out in front of my friend's home in Bangkok for 4 or 5 days following his discharge for treatment of a major heart attack, including several days in the CCU, when he was unable to pay the bill.

[flyDelight]

It's illegal holding someones passport and the management knows it, they just brainwash staff with their own rules. The usual crap.

[elektrified]

It's illegal holding someones passport and the management knows it, they just brainwash staff with their own rules. The usual crap.

It's not illegal. It's insurance that you won't skip out of the country without paying your bill. Go ahead and call the police and see how much help you will get getting your passport back if you haven't paid your bill.

[chiang mai]

It's illegal holding someones passport and the management knows it, they just brainwash staff with their own rules. The usual crap.

Only in Kansas is it illegal and this aint! Your passport will/would be held here, count on it.