Donald Trump continues to lead Republican presidential race – CBS poll

[losworld]

So apparently you don't have to be crazy to support Trump. Good to know!

From a psychological perspective, though, the people backing Trump are perfectly normal. Interviews with psychologists and other experts suggest a simple explanation for the candidate's success -- and for the collective failure to anticipate it: The political elite hasn't confronted a few fundamental, universal and uncomfortable facts about the human mind.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/15/i-asked-psychologists-to-analyze-trump-supporters-this-is-what-i-learned/

What Trump represents really is a desire by Americans to regain control of their government. They believe the majority have lost control of the government and special interest groups have hijacked their agenda. They are basically correct. People are fed up and want change. Governments are more often defeated than elected and this is really about defeating what they see as a corrupt process.

Edited October 16, 2015 by losworld

[Berkshire]

Well maybe a branch of them, they do not understand conservatism due to inexperience or perhaps sheltered due to life in a gated community. That's my take but the Rolling Stone article is revealing.

More about the popularity of Trump: Ann Coulter implies Trump is proof that "God has not given up on America yet."

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIDjsKw1y8Q

You're quoting Ann Coulter? Man, that lady is the looniest of the looneys.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.676293

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/13/ann_coulters_nativist_bigotry_gets_ripped_to_shreds_in_debate_when_its_white_people_its_irrelevant_but_when_its_not_white_people_it_is_primitive/

This is why we have such a wide chasm in America right now. People that I think are complete nutbags (e.g., Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Carson, Cruz, et al) you probably think are legit. Even the word "conservatism" means different things to different people. Those on the right and left will never agree. All we can hope for is that our side outnumbers the other side.

"This is why we have such a wide chasm in America right now. "

...and...

" All we can hope for is that our side outnumbers the other side."

I thought you were British. Where does the word "WE" fit into the discussion from your viewpoint.

If some posters can quote Rolling Stone with a straight face, then Ann Coulter is also quotable. Live with it.

I'm an American. And like it or not, Rolling Stone is pretty mainstream...although admittedly more left leaning. Which is where most young people are anymore. As for Coulter, that's why I said we have a wide chasm. It's hard for me to fathom that some would find any of what she says legitimate, but some do. Again, I realize that the left and the right are never going to agree. So whoever is the majority, we/they get to decide how our country will be govern.

[thehelmsman]

Many posters here epitomize why the US is almost done for and why Americans are considered uneducated. While these liberals have gotten their fantasies to come true in the US they have seen fit to live akin to refugees in a country that still has many semblances of the third world about it instead of back home in the US where they should supposedly be in paradise. They have voted with their feet, if not their minds. From afar they call for yet more destruction of what is left of the once great USA, heeding the latest memes cast out to them by the lamestream liberal dominated bankster run kosher media. It's like watching a nation gleefully engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre.

One man comes along, and he may be a faker, but he at least talks some sense about at least slowing the destruction, and he is automatically vilified as if a satanic creature. Yet no REAL reasons are given for this... just a mindless list copied from the media clowns.

It's staggering that so many don't even SEE the real problems that are so OBVIOUS and instead are just living in a hypnotized state, fiddling as Rome burns...

Joe Reality for President...............

[Jingthing]

Many posters here epitomize why the US is almost done for and why Americans are considered uneducated. While these liberals have gotten their fantasies to come true in the US they have seen fit to live akin to refugees in a country that still has many semblances of the third world about it instead of back home in the US where they should supposedly be in paradise. They have voted with their feet, if not their minds. From afar they call for yet more destruction of what is left of the once great USA, heeding the latest memes cast out to them by the lamestream liberal dominated bankster run kosher media. It's like watching a nation gleefully engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre.

One man comes along, and he may be a faker, but he at least talks some sense about at least slowing the destruction, and he is automatically vilified as if a satanic creature. Yet no REAL reasons are given for this... just a mindless list copied from the media clowns.

It's staggering that so many don't even SEE the real problems that are so OBVIOUS and instead are just living in a hypnotized state, fiddling as Rome burns...

Joe Reality for President...............

Sure thing. Why not. There's still plenty of room on the republican clown car.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Jingthing

[squarethecircle]

Many posters here epitomize why the US is almost done for and why Americans are considered uneducated. While these liberals have gotten their fantasies to come true in the US they have seen fit to live akin to refugees in a country that still has many semblances of the third world about it instead of back home in the US where they should supposedly be in paradise. They have voted with their feet, if not their minds. From afar they call for yet more destruction of what is left of the once great USA, heeding the latest memes cast out to them by the lamestream liberal dominated bankster run kosher media. It's like watching a nation gleefully engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre.

One man comes along, and he may be a faker, but he at least talks some sense about at least slowing the destruction, and he is automatically vilified as if a satanic creature. Yet no REAL reasons are given for this... just a mindless list copied from the media clowns.

It's staggering that so many don't even SEE the real problems that are so OBVIOUS and instead are just living in a hypnotized state, fiddling as Rome burns...

Well did you ever check out Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals"? It explains the "demonize the opposition" strategy perfectly. Rule #4: Ridicule The Enemy, hence the "conservatives are racist bigots" misunderstanding (or perhaps conscious, outright lie). This intimidates most people but as Ann Coulter says, Trump cannot be defeated by this. Even if he doesn't win and is putting on, he is a good role model for how to deal with this. I hope he goes to the debates with The Clinton Foundation lady and shows us more. I think Ann Coulter is right - he is a gift to us from God!

[Chicog]

Many posters here epitomize why the US is almost done for and why Americans are considered uneducated. While these liberals have gotten their fantasies to come true in the US they have seen fit to live akin to refugees in a country that still has many semblances of the third world about it instead of back home in the US where they should supposedly be in paradise. They have voted with their feet, if not their minds. From afar they call for yet more destruction of what is left of the once great USA, heeding the latest memes cast out to them by the lamestream liberal dominated bankster run kosher media. It's like watching a nation gleefully engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre.

One man comes along, and he may be a faker, but he at least talks some sense about at least slowing the destruction, and he is automatically vilified as if a satanic creature. Yet no REAL reasons are given for this... just a mindless list copied from the media clowns.

It's staggering that so many don't even SEE the real problems that are so OBVIOUS and instead are just living in a hypnotized state, fiddling as Rome burns...

Well did you ever check out Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals"? It explains the "demonize the opposition" strategy perfectly. Rule #4: Ridicule The Enemy, hence the "conservatives are racist bigots" misunderstanding (or perhaps conscious, outright lie). This intimidates most people but as Ann Coulter says, Trump cannot be defeated by this. Even if he doesn't win and is putting on, he is a good role model for how to deal with this. I hope he goes to the debates with The Clinton Foundation lady and shows us more. I think Ann Coulter is right - he is a gift to us from God!

Then it probably wouldn't be appropriate to say "God help us all".

[Publicus]

So apparently you don't have to be crazy to support Trump. Good to know!

From a psychological perspective, though, the people backing Trump are perfectly normal. Interviews with psychologists and other experts suggest a simple explanation for the candidate's success -- and for the collective failure to anticipate it: The political elite hasn't confronted a few fundamental, universal and uncomfortable facts about the human mind.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/15/i-asked-psychologists-to-analyze-trump-supporters-this-is-what-i-learned/

What Trump represents really is a desire by Americans to regain control of their government. They believe the majority have lost control of the government and special interest groups have hijacked their agenda. They are basically correct. People are fed up and want change. Governments are more often defeated than elected and this is really about defeating what they see as a corrupt process.

People are fed up and want change

Change is occurring and happening all the time as everyone has seen during only this year alone. Lots more change coming too.

The quote speaks for the people of the far extreme right who conversely want reactionary change to restore the America they grew up in. It is sort of a basic human psychology for a certain number of people of a society to always want the neighborhood and even the country to always be the way it was when they grew up.

For almost all of America's history each temporary and evolving America has passed, gone with the wind too, which is inevitable and unavoidable. America was great back then; America is great now; America naturally maintains its post bellum greatness, generation to generation going forward.

Trump instead sounds like a frustrated one room little red schoolhouse master who's set out to put those unruly kids back in line. It is in fact the old rightwinger's playbook they've used since many score of years ago. More recently, post WW2, it's been civil rights, the pill, abortions, free love then equal love for all. The right are unalterably opposed to a society they have lost control over, can't direct or define in their terms only and exclusively.

It can be understandable but it is not acceptable that such attitudes should dominate or be determinant. They've always yielded and shall continue to yield to the new and dynamic (my the right hates that word, dynamic).

[squarethecircle]

Many posters here epitomize why the US is almost done for and why Americans are considered uneducated. While these liberals have gotten their fantasies to come true in the US they have seen fit to live akin to refugees in a country that still has many semblances of the third world about it instead of back home in the US where they should supposedly be in paradise. They have voted with their feet, if not their minds. From afar they call for yet more destruction of what is left of the once great USA, heeding the latest memes cast out to them by the lamestream liberal dominated bankster run kosher media. It's like watching a nation gleefully engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre.

One man comes along, and he may be a faker, but he at least talks some sense about at least slowing the destruction, and he is automatically vilified as if a satanic creature. Yet no REAL reasons are given for this... just a mindless list copied from the media clowns.

It's staggering that so many don't even SEE the real problems that are so OBVIOUS and instead are just living in a hypnotized state, fiddling as Rome burns...

Well did you ever check out Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals"? It explains the "demonize the opposition" strategy perfectly. Rule #4: Ridicule The Enemy, hence the "conservatives are racist bigots" misunderstanding (or perhaps conscious, outright lie). This intimidates most people but as Ann Coulter says, Trump cannot be defeated by this. Even if he doesn't win and is putting on, he is a good role model for how to deal with this. I hope he goes to the debates with The Clinton Foundation lady and shows us more. I think Ann Coulter is right - he is a gift to us from God!

Then it probably wouldn't be appropriate to say "God help us all".

Well perhaps most of his supporters know, even Trump can't save us - only Christ can do that.

[Jingthing]

I doubt he is really a believing Christian, not that it matters, but it's funny that religious Christians would assume that he is.

[thehelmsman]

Many posters here epitomize why the US is almost done for and why Americans are considered uneducated. While these liberals have gotten their fantasies to come true in the US they have seen fit to live akin to refugees in a country that still has many semblances of the third world about it instead of back home in the US where they should supposedly be in paradise. They have voted with their feet, if not their minds. From afar they call for yet more destruction of what is left of the once great USA, heeding the latest memes cast out to them by the lamestream liberal dominated bankster run kosher media. It's like watching a nation gleefully engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre.

One man comes along, and he may be a faker, but he at least talks some sense about at least slowing the destruction, and he is automatically vilified as if a satanic creature. Yet no REAL reasons are given for this... just a mindless list copied from the media clowns.

It's staggering that so many don't even SEE the real problems that are so OBVIOUS and instead are just living in a hypnotized state, fiddling as Rome burns...

Joe Reality for President...............

Sure thing. Why not. There's still plenty of room on the republican clown car.

bringinmoregopclowns.jpg

I'm still making a good salary and paying way too much in federal taxes. If the Demos have their way the USA will be nothing more than a socialist country with the lazy having been indoctrinated to believe the gov. will take care of them. As long as the poor can afford a flat screen TV they seem to be happy. Work for a living? No need, just stay at home and wait for their welfare to be sent to their account.

My family left a socialist Euro country because my father wanted to be rewarded for being a hard worker, not the same rations as the guy sitting on his ass. It;s hard to see the USA turn out the way it is.

[GinBoy2]

Sometimes I think it helps to read some of the more reasoned conservative commentators in the country, rather than only tune into the hype and nonsense punted by the Coulters as if they are the only true voice of the right.

David Brooks of the NYT has always been a favorite commentator of mine, even if a little right wing for my taste. But he's one of the few sane voices I hear coming from the right these days. I thought his column this week was pretty enlightening.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/opinion/the-republicans-incompetence-caucus.html?_r=1

[squarethecircle]

Sometimes I think it helps to read some of the more reasoned conservative commentators in the country, rather than only tune into the hype and nonsense punted by the Coulters as if they are the only true voice of the right.

David Brooks of the NYT has always been a favorite commentator of mine, even if a little right wing for my taste. But he's one of the few sane voices I hear coming from the right these days. I thought his column this week was pretty enlightening.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/opinion/the-republicans-incompetence-caucus.html?_r=1

Well Ann Coulter is a very smart individual, she easily could have been a university government or law professor but felt she'd be more effective in the popular arena. And the article is interesting but the response I'd have to his claim that the right has become a crisis-oriented insurgency is that it is a response to socialism seeping into the left: their current tactics come right out of Saul Alinsky who taught the way for disenfranchised people to advance is by destroying those who are successful.

Case in point: Alinsky's Rule #4: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon," hence the "racist bigot" line, Trump and Carson are both "right-wing wackos" and so on. Not sure how Brooks expects the right to counter that without mounting a response like we're seeing.

[Publicus]

Sometimes I think it helps to read some of the more reasoned conservative commentators in the country, rather than only tune into the hype and nonsense punted by the Coulters as if they are the only true voice of the right.

David Brooks of the NYT has always been a favorite commentator of mine, even if a little right wing for my taste. But he's one of the few sane voices I hear coming from the right these days. I thought his column this week was pretty enlightening.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/opinion/the-republicans-incompetence-caucus.html?_r=1

Well Ann Coulter is a very smart individual, she easily could have been a university government or law professor but felt she'd be more effective in the popular arena. And the article is interesting but the response I'd have to his claim that the right has become a crisis-oriented insurgency is that it is a response to socialism seeping into the left: their current tactics come right out of Saul Alinsky who taught the way for disenfranchised people to advance is by destroying those who are successful.

Case in point: Alinsky's Rule #4: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon," hence the "racist bigot" line, Trump and Carson are both "right-wing wackos" and so on. Not sure how Brooks expects the right to counter that without mounting a response like we're seeing.

Saul Alinsky and Alinsky's Rules are the obsession of dour rightwingers and other socio-cultural and super sensitive sour political reactionaries.

Ridicule goes back to Socrates and is used in logic, mathematics, philosophy among other fields or disciplines.

Will Rogers, with his down-home way, made ridiculing political leaders an art form. And that art form has been embraced by America’s humorists ever since.—Bob Hope, 1996.

Some Rogers humor;

I don't belong to any organised political party. I'm a Democrat.

Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.

I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/hope-for-america/the-fine-art-of-ridicule.html

It becomes easy as pie to see how and why Wisconsin Gov Scott Walker in his abysmal

campaign debacle for the Republican party nomination to be POTUS failed amidst a great ridicule.

This is not to dismiss the serious concerns of the serious poster in all of his seriousity about Saul Alinsky. Ridicule is a serious matter, as is pointed out,

According to Canadian television and newspaper critic John Doyle, "there are specific periods when satire is necessary. We've entered one of those times"

http://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1065&context=srhonorsprog

"Laughter is food for thought, so humor must be taken very seriously.” — International Journal of Applied Philosophy

http://www.sunypress.edu/p-5779-humor-and-the-good-life-in-mode.aspx

Clicking the link provides an illustration of the point:

#9972291

Edited October 16, 2015 by Publicus

[bendejo]

Meanwhile, the sitting President goes on national TV to denigrate Mr. Trump to the public in an attempt to use his position to sway public opinion and influence the voters...to his Democratic Party...

Just another feather in the cap of the most self-aggrandizing President in US history...

DT has been on Obama since the start, he's a major force behind the birther thing, and still will not say that yes, Obama is the legit president. The president doesn't owe him any favors. And now that DT is officially a partisan politician he's fair game. No sympathy for that clown.

As a former prez said: if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.

[squarethecircle]

Sometimes I think it helps to read some of the more reasoned conservative commentators in the country, rather than only tune into the hype and nonsense punted by the Coulters as if they are the only true voice of the right.

David Brooks of the NYT has always been a favorite commentator of mine, even if a little right wing for my taste. But he's one of the few sane voices I hear coming from the right these days. I thought his column this week was pretty enlightening.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/opinion/the-republicans-incompetence-caucus.html?_r=1

Well Ann Coulter is a very smart individual, she easily could have been a university government or law professor but felt she'd be more effective in the popular arena. And the article is interesting but the response I'd have to his claim that the right has become a crisis-oriented insurgency is that it is a response to socialism seeping into the left: their current tactics come right out of Saul Alinsky who taught the way for disenfranchised people to advance is by destroying those who are successful.

Case in point: Alinsky's Rule #4: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon," hence the "racist bigot" line, Trump and Carson are both "right-wing wackos" and so on. Not sure how Brooks expects the right to counter that without mounting a response like we're seeing.

Saul Alinsky and Alinsky's Rules are the obsession of dour rightwingers and other socio-cultural and super sensitive sour political reactionaries.

Ridicule goes back to Socrates and is used in logic, mathematics, philosophy among other fields or disciplines.

Will Rogers, with his down-home way, made ridiculing political leaders an art form. And that art form has been embraced by America’s humorists ever since.—Bob Hope, 1996.

Some Rogers humor;

I don't belong to any organised political party. I'm a Democrat.

Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.

I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/hope-for-america/the-fine-art-of-ridicule.html

It becomes easy as pie to see how and why Wisconsin Gov Scott Walker in his abysmal

campaign debacle for the Republican party nomination to be POTUS failed amidst a great ridicule.

This is not to dismiss the serious concerns of the serious poster in all of his seriousity about Saul Alinsky. Ridicule is a serious matter, as is pointed out,

According to Canadian television and newspaper critic John Doyle, "there are specific periods when satire is necessary. We've entered one of those times"

http://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1065&context=srhonorsprog

"Laughter is food for thought, so humor must be taken very seriously.” — International Journal of Applied Philosophy

http://www.sunypress.edu/p-5779-humor-and-the-good-life-in-mode.aspx

Clicking the link provides an illustration of the point:

#9972291

Well there could be a place for it - like Ann Coulter's query, "What lives in a gated community, but thinks a wall is not a legitimate way of defending a country?" Or "what travels with a detache of armed bodyguards but thinks guns are not a legitimate way to defend yourself." That's to the point and accurate ridicule, same with Socrates.

A point of ridicule on the right would be who makes millions of campaign dollars from tobacco and alcohol companies, but wants to throw you in jail for a joint? Or the quip about how you can tell a preacher's vices by his Sunday sermons. If he talks about adultery every week, he has a mistress. If he talks about sobriety, he's a heavy drinker.

But the "right-wingers are nutjob bigots" isn't either, it's straight-out character assassination. "Shut up, he explained." A kind of left-wing totalitarianism - exactly like they do in Red China.

Edited October 16, 2015 by squarethecircle

[Publicus]

Sometimes I think it helps to read some of the more reasoned conservative commentators in the country, rather than only tune into the hype and nonsense punted by the Coulters as if they are the only true voice of the right.

David Brooks of the NYT has always been a favorite commentator of mine, even if a little right wing for my taste. But he's one of the few sane voices I hear coming from the right these days. I thought his column this week was pretty enlightening.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/opinion/the-republicans-incompetence-caucus.html?_r=1

Well Ann Coulter is a very smart individual, she easily could have been a university government or law professor but felt she'd be more effective in the popular arena. And the article is interesting but the response I'd have to his claim that the right has become a crisis-oriented insurgency is that it is a response to socialism seeping into the left: their current tactics come right out of Saul Alinsky who taught the way for disenfranchised people to advance is by destroying those who are successful.

Case in point: Alinsky's Rule #4: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon," hence the "racist bigot" line, Trump and Carson are both "right-wing wackos" and so on. Not sure how Brooks expects the right to counter that without mounting a response like we're seeing.

Saul Alinsky and Alinsky's Rules are the obsession of dour rightwingers and other socio-cultural and super sensitive sour political reactionaries.

Ridicule goes back to Socrates and is used in logic, mathematics, philosophy among other fields or disciplines.

Will Rogers, with his down-home way, made ridiculing political leaders an art form. And that art form has been embraced by America’s humorists ever since.—Bob Hope, 1996.

Some Rogers humor;

I don't belong to any organised political party. I'm a Democrat.

Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.

I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/hope-for-america/the-fine-art-of-ridicule.html

It becomes easy as pie to see how and why Wisconsin Gov Scott Walker in his abysmal

campaign debacle for the Republican party nomination to be POTUS failed amidst a great ridicule.

This is not to dismiss the serious concerns of the serious poster in all of his seriousity about Saul Alinsky. Ridicule is a serious matter, as is pointed out,

According to Canadian television and newspaper critic John Doyle, "there are specific periods when satire is necessary. We've entered one of those times"

http://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1065&context=srhonorsprog

"Laughter is food for thought, so humor must be taken very seriously.” — International Journal of Applied Philosophy

http://www.sunypress.edu/p-5779-humor-and-the-good-life-in-mode.aspx

Clicking the link provides an illustration of the point:

#9972291

Well there could be a place for it - like Ann Coulter's query, "What lives in a gated community, but thinks a wall is not a legitimate way of defending a country?" Or "what travels with a detache of armed bodyguards but thinks guns are not a legitimate way to defend yourself." That's to the point and accurate ridicule, same with Socrates.

A point of ridicule on the right would be who makes millions of campaign dollars from tobacco and alcohol companies, but wants to throw you in jail for a joint? Or the quip about how you can tell a preacher's vices by his Sunday sermons. If he talks about adultery every week, he has a mistress. If he talks about sobriety, he's a heavy drinker.

But the "right-wingers are nutjob bigots" isn't either, it's straight-out character assassination. "Shut up, he explained." A kind of left-wing totalitarianism - exactly like they do in Red China.

The right continues to confuse itself and to reinforce the confusion.

The final paragraph of the post for instance is not ridicule, it is contempt. A statement of contempt needs to be dealt with as itself, i.e., contempt. Contempt and ridicule are two different things.

Although contempt can be involved in ridicule, each is separate and distinct. Each stands on its own. So to say "right wingers are nutjob bigots," is contempt, not ridicule. Btw, this poster has never posted that nor has he used the language in the final graf.

This poster speaks/posts of the rightwing as the far out lunar extreme fringe marginal lunatic howling at the moon crackpots from Alpha Centauri who post ideological and political spam. Sometimes this poster uses the word "racial" but hardly ever uses "racist." The word "redneck" does suffice in this poster's lexicon.

So ridicule is for the user whomever the user may be. In other words, use ridicule or do not, it's up to the individual person.

Ann Coulter is btw a guttersnipe who couldn't get a legit job in legitimate academia if her miserable reputation rested on it. If a thread on her ever comes along, ridicule would be appropriate, however, contempt is the order of any encounter with such a rightwingnut nutjob as Ann Coulter is. She talks trash and nothing but trash. Ann Coulter is a rightwing sniper and nothing more. Trying to build up Ann Coutler outside of the precincts of the lunar right is a hopeless and thankless task.

[lostboy]

Sometimes I think it helps to read some of the more reasoned conservative commentators in the country, rather than only tune into the hype and nonsense punted by the Coulters as if they are the only true voice of the right.

David Brooks of the NYT has always been a favorite commentator of mine, even if a little right wing for my taste. But he's one of the few sane voices I hear coming from the right these days. I thought his column this week was pretty enlightening.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/opinion/the-republicans-incompetence-caucus.html?_r=1

Well Ann Coulter is a very smart individual, she easily could have been a university government or law professor but felt she'd be more effective in the popular arena. And the article is interesting but the response I'd have to his claim that the right has become a crisis-oriented insurgency is that it is a response to socialism seeping into the left: their current tactics come right out of Saul Alinsky who taught the way for disenfranchised people to advance is by destroying those who are successful.

Case in point: Alinsky's Rule #4: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon," hence the "racist bigot" line, Trump and Carson are both "right-wing wackos" and so on. Not sure how Brooks expects the right to counter that without mounting a response like we're seeing.

Saul Alinsky and Alinsky's Rules are the obsession of dour rightwingers and other socio-cultural and super sensitive sour political reactionaries.

Ridicule goes back to Socrates and is used in logic, mathematics, philosophy among other fields or disciplines.

Will Rogers, with his down-home way, made ridiculing political leaders an art form. And that art form has been embraced by America’s humorists ever since.—Bob Hope, 1996.

Some Rogers humor;

I don't belong to any organised political party. I'm a Democrat.

Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.

I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/hope-for-america/the-fine-art-of-ridicule.html

It becomes easy as pie to see how and why Wisconsin Gov Scott Walker in his abysmal

campaign debacle for the Republican party nomination to be POTUS failed amidst a great ridicule.

This is not to dismiss the serious concerns of the serious poster in all of his seriousity about Saul Alinsky. Ridicule is a serious matter, as is pointed out,

According to Canadian television and newspaper critic John Doyle, "there are specific periods when satire is necessary. We've entered one of those times"

http://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1065&context=srhonorsprog

"Laughter is food for thought, so humor must be taken very seriously.” — International Journal of Applied Philosophy

http://www.sunypress.edu/p-5779-humor-and-the-good-life-in-mode.aspx

Clicking the link provides an illustration of the point:

#9972291

Well there could be a place for it - like Ann Coulter's query, "What lives in a gated community, but thinks a wall is not a legitimate way of defending a country?" Or "what travels with a detache of armed bodyguards but thinks guns are not a legitimate way to defend yourself." That's to the point and accurate ridicule, same with Socrates.

A point of ridicule on the right would be who makes millions of campaign dollars from tobacco and alcohol companies, but wants to throw you in jail for a joint? Or the quip about how you can tell a preacher's vices by his Sunday sermons. If he talks about adultery every week, he has a mistress. If he talks about sobriety, he's a heavy drinker.

But the "right-wingers are nutjob bigots" isn't either, it's straight-out character assassination. "Shut up, he explained." A kind of left-wing totalitarianism - exactly like they do in Red China.

Coulter 'quips' and 'queries' where Alinsky 'destroys'. No doubt you call yourself an independent or undecided voter. Yet your partisanship is blatant. 'Liberals are driven by Satan' http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2007-06-28.html is a quip? Where is your outrage at this character assassination by Coulter? Unless you subscribe to this absurdity of course.

You align yourself with bigots and homophobes. Own it. Revel in it. Accept that you are marginalised and your time has passed. Otherwise your only option is to get more ridiculous and hyperbolic. Red China indeed! What is that when it is at home? Some relic of the 50's?

Edited October 17, 2015 by lostboy

[stevenl]

Sometimes I think it helps to read some of the more reasoned conservative commentators in the country, rather than only tune into the hype and nonsense punted by the Coulters as if they are the only true voice of the right.

David Brooks of the NYT has always been a favorite commentator of mine, even if a little right wing for my taste. But he's one of the few sane voices I hear coming from the right these days. I thought his column this week was pretty enlightening.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/opinion/the-republicans-incompetence-caucus.html?_r=1

Thanks, very good column.

[Publicus]

David Brooks of NYT makes a lot of sense a lot of the time. He and Mark Shields on the other short side of center are a great combo on PBS and have been for a long time.

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.

[sirineou]

30 % of the republicans support support Trump at this time in a very crowded field, the remaining 70% do not, what remains to be seen is , when the field settles to two or three candidates as it will inevitable do, how many of the 70% will gravitate to Tramp and how many to his opponent/ opponents

Given his behavior so far, I am willing to say that his outrageous behavior attract the outrageous fringe wing of the republican party who max out at 30% , and the remaining 70% will support others,

if the field settles to two, I predict Trump will loose by a large margin.

In the end the only effect Trump will have in this election is to cause the eventual republican nominee to drift too far to the right, to his/hers detriment in the general election.

[pedro01]

Obama promised change and people were hungry for it.

Sadly, that was just electioneering and they got more of the same revolving-door, lobbyist driven billsh1t.

Trump again offers change but this time it appears he is not a sell out like Obama.

If Trump gets in, politics will change forever in the US. No longer will we see hour long interviews with politicians avoiding answering a single question. The politicians will be forced to take a stand.

Hillary has no experience. I run a software company but my wife couldnt. Hillaries' claim to fame is that she was married to a president.

It amazes me that people worry about a billionaire businessman becoming president but think being an ex-presidents housewife is qualification enough.

[pedro01]

30 % of the republicans support support Trump at this time in a very crowded field, the remaining 70% do not, what remains to be seen is , when the field settles to two or three candidates as it will inevitable do, how many of the 70% will gravitate to Tramp and how many to his opponent/ opponents

Given his behavior so far, I am willing to say that his outrageous behavior attract the outrageous fringe wing of the republican party who max out at 30% , and the remaining 70% will support others,

if the field settles to two, I predict Trump will loose by a large margin.

In the end the only effect Trump will have in this election is to cause the eventual republican nominee to drift too far to the right, to his/hers detriment in the general election.

By 'outrageous behavior' I presume you mean actually answering questions?

[Publicus]

30 % of the republicans support support Trump at this time in a very crowded field, the remaining 70% do not, what remains to be seen is , when the field settles to two or three candidates as it will inevitable do, how many of the 70% will gravitate to Tramp and how many to his opponent/ opponents

Given his behavior so far, I am willing to say that his outrageous behavior attract the outrageous fringe wing of the republican party who max out at 30% , and the remaining 70% will support others,

if the field settles to two, I predict Trump will loose by a large margin.

In the end the only effect Trump will have in this election is to cause the eventual republican nominee to drift too far to the right, to his/hers detriment in the general election.

Analysis of the Republican base supporter dynamics among the candidates needs to be expanded.

The NBC News poll yesterday is consistent with other reliable surveys in that it shows Trump with 28%, Carson at 23% and Fiorina at 6%. Well yes, forget Fiorina but then again none of the three have ever held elected public office, so they are a sort of political menage 'a trois.

A lot of people make a big point of this and they are right, i.e., at least half the Republican party base of voters want a nominee from the convention next year who is not a current office holder cum politician. So forget anyone who's from a political family, dynasty, bloodline --- Jeb!. Hasta Lavista dude.

Carson said openly he won't critisise Trump but the reality to Carson is he wants the Trump voters when his time comes, at least as Carson sees it. Trump had already pronounced that he will not attack Carson, certainly for the same reason of self-interest as Carson has in not attacking him, Trump. Carson has said nothing about Fiorina while Trump had to go out of his way last month to be politically kissyface with her on stage at the debate no less.

Trump's current reality and going forward is to outdo Carson in the primaries and caucuses then get his voters. This means Trump has to negotiate a simple inheritance rather than charge into a mugging. Mugging is what he did to the anyway vulnerable Rand Paul, the numbnuts Scott Walker and which he's been doing to Jeb! as he yesterday and today pursues the coup de grace to decapitate Jeb from the campaign once and for all.

Vice-versa for Carson going forward wanting to get the Trump voters over to his side after presumably knocking off Trump but only by accomplishing this in a soft and gentle Ben way. Ted Cruz is the Cheshire cat of the Republican field piling up money while setting up to get both groups of voters after the primary voting has begun and after Trump and Carson take turns getting beat up in this primary but not that one, then in another primary again but not in still another one etc.

National politics is quite the dog eat dog fight with an added factor of pretend table manners while the vultures circle.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Publicus

[sirineou]

Obama promised change and people were hungry for it.

Sadly, that was just electioneering and they got more of the same revolving-door, lobbyist driven billsh1t.

Trump again offers change but this time it appears he is not a sell out like Obama.

If Trump gets in, politics will change forever in the US. No longer will we see hour long interviews with politicians avoiding answering a single question. The politicians will be forced to take a stand.

Hillary has no experience. I run a software company but my wife couldnt. Hillaries' claim to fame is that she was married to a president.

It amazes me that people worry about a billionaire businessman becoming president but think being an ex-presidents housewife is qualification enough.

I agree with you , in the unlikely event Trump gets elected politics will change for ever

watch what you wish for, change is not always good.

30 % of the republicans support support Trump at this time in a very crowded field, the remaining 70% do not, what remains to be seen is , when the field settles to two or three candidates as it will inevitable do, how many of the 70% will gravitate to Tramp and how many to his opponent/ opponents

Given his behavior so far, I am willing to say that his outrageous behavior attract the outrageous fringe wing of the republican party who max out at 30% , and the remaining 70% will support others,

if the field settles to two, I predict Trump will loose by a large margin.

In the end the only effect Trump will have in this election is to cause the eventual republican nominee to drift too far to the right, to his/hers detriment in the general election.

By 'outrageous behavior' I presume you mean actually answering questions?

No , by courageous behavior I mean the nature of his statements and demeanor.

as far as answering questions, he is actually answering NOTHING, when asked how he will acomplish these things he says he will, his only answer is

, by the force of his incredible personality .Ohh wait, and he is smart

in an interview on CNN yesterday one of his minions when asked how will Trump acomplish the things he said he do, he said he will release these facts as needed, it is not necessary for him to release complicated strategies now that the american people will not even understand.

In his opinion the American people are too stupid also,

I agree, at least the 30% of republicans who support them are.

Remember for him to be elected President he will need the remaining 70% of republicans many independents and some democrats

Good luck that happening

Ohh and on lowering taxes, while rebuilding the infrastructure, and increasing benefits, he said he will do it by trimming the fat in the federal budget.

We have never heard this before

[sirineou]

30 % of the republicans support support Trump at this time in a very crowded field, the remaining 70% do not, what remains to be seen is , when the field settles to two or three candidates as it will inevitable do, how many of the 70% will gravitate to Tramp and how many to his opponent/ opponents

Given his behavior so far, I am willing to say that his outrageous behavior attract the outrageous fringe wing of the republican party who max out at 30% , and the remaining 70% will support others,

if the field settles to two, I predict Trump will loose by a large margin.

In the end the only effect Trump will have in this election is to cause the eventual republican nominee to drift too far to the right, to his/hers detriment in the general election.

Analysis of the Republican base supporter dynamics among the candidates needs to be expanded.

The NBC News poll yesterday is consistent with other reliable surveys in that it shows Trump with 28%, Carson at 23% and Fiorina at 6%. Well yes, forget Fiorina but then again none of the three have ever held elected public office, so they are a sort of political menage 'a trois.

A lot of people make a big point of this and they are right, i.e., at least half the Republican party base of voters want a nominee from the convention next year who is not a current office holder cum politician. So forget anyone who's from a political family, dynasty, bloodline --- Jeb!. Hasta Lavista dude.

Carson said openly he won't critisise Trump but the reality to Carson is he wants the Trump voters when his time comes, at least as Carson sees it. Trump had already pronounced that he will not attack Carson, certainly for the same reason of self-interest as Carson has in not attacking him, Trump. Carson has said nothing about Fiorina while Trump had to go out of his way last month to be politically kissyface with her on stage at the debate no less.

Trump's current reality and going forward is to outdo Carson in the primaries and caucuses then get his voters. This means Trump has to negotiate a simple inheritance rather than charge into a mugging. Mugging is what he did to the anyway vulnerable Rand Paul, the numbnuts Scott Walker and which he's been doing to Jeb! as he yesterday and today pursues the coup de grace to decapitate Jeb from the campaign once and for all.

Vice-versa for Carson going forward wanting to get the Trump voters over to his side after presumably knocking off Trump but only by accomplishing this in a soft and gentle Ben way. Ted Cruz is the Cheshire cat of the Republican field piling up money while setting up to get both groups of voters after the primary voting has begun and after Trump and Carson take turns getting beat up in this primary but not that one, then in another primary again but not in still another one etc.

National politics is quite the dog eat dog fight with an added factor of pretend table manners while the vultures circle.

an other thing to note is that not all the candidates in the republican and democratic primary are running for president, for some it is vanity, and increased status with in the party, others are running for VP while hopping for an outside chance at POTUS. I am not sure what Trump's game is yet, I know his narcissistic personality will not allow for a VIP I also know he is not stupid, so I cant believe he thinks his current strategy will get him to the white house.

Perhaps he is doing this to elect his friend Hilary, perhaps he is using this to get him in the door in the primaries as it has done, and then he hopes to pivot to a more reasonable position. and remember trump is a self promoter, he is a brand, so perhaps this is just Brand enhancement.

I am open to any thought.

[thaibeachlovers]

Same could be said about Rolling Stone, but it caters to the lefty looney crowd.

Fair enough. Another name for these folks is "millennials."

Well maybe a branch of them, they do not understand conservatism due to inexperience or perhaps sheltered due to life in a gated community. That's my take but the Rolling Stone article is revealing.

More about the popularity of Trump: Ann Coulter implies Trump is proof that "God has not given up on America yet."

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIDjsKw1y8Q

You're quoting Ann Coulter? Man, that lady is the looniest of the looneys.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.676293

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/13/ann_coulters_nativist_bigotry_gets_ripped_to_shreds_in_debate_when_its_white_people_its_irrelevant_but_when_its_not_white_people_it_is_primitive/

This is why we have such a wide chasm in America right now. People that I think are complete nutbags (e.g., Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Carson, Cruz, et al) you probably think are legit. Even the word "conservatism" means different things to different people. Those on the right and left will never agree. All we can hope for is that our side outnumbers the other side.

You could put all those people together and the sum total of "nutbaginess" would be way short of Pelosi. She is the nuttiest person I have ever seen, and that she was Dems leader in the house says it all about the Dems, LOL.

No one can seriously say the past years of the Dems in charge have been good for America. Just because the GOP aren't any better is not to say the Dems are good. The US political system is broken, and bad for the whole world.

[thaibeachlovers]

Obama promised change and people were hungry for it.

Sadly, that was just electioneering and they got more of the same revolving-door, lobbyist driven billsh1t.

Trump again offers change but this time it appears he is not a sell out like Obama.

If Trump gets in, politics will change forever in the US. No longer will we see hour long interviews with politicians avoiding answering a single question. The politicians will be forced to take a stand.

Hillary has no experience. I run a software company but my wife couldnt. Hillaries' claim to fame is that she was married to a president.

It amazes me that people worry about a billionaire businessman becoming president but think being an ex-presidents housewife is qualification enough.

I agree with you , in the unlikely event Trump gets elected politics will change for ever

watch what you wish for, change is not always good.

30 % of the republicans support support Trump at this time in a very crowded field, the remaining 70% do not, what remains to be seen is , when the field settles to two or three candidates as it will inevitable do, how many of the 70% will gravitate to Tramp and how many to his opponent/ opponents

Given his behavior so far, I am willing to say that his outrageous behavior attract the outrageous fringe wing of the republican party who max out at 30% , and the remaining 70% will support others,

if the field settles to two, I predict Trump will loose by a large margin.

In the end the only effect Trump will have in this election is to cause the eventual republican nominee to drift too far to the right, to his/hers detriment in the general election.

By 'outrageous behavior' I presume you mean actually answering questions?

No , by courageous behavior I mean the nature of his statements and demeanor.

as far as answering questions, he is actually answering NOTHING, when asked how he will acomplish these things he says he will, his only answer is

, by the force of his incredible personality .Ohh wait, and he is smart

in an interview on CNN yesterday one of his minions when asked how will Trump acomplish the things he said he do, he said he will release these facts as needed, it is not necessary for him to release complicated strategies now that the american people will not even understand.

In his opinion the American people are too stupid also,

I agree, at least the 30% of republicans who support them are.

Remember for him to be elected President he will need the remaining 70% of republicans many independents and some democrats

Good luck that happening

Ohh and on lowering taxes, while rebuilding the infrastructure, and increasing benefits, he said he will do it by trimming the fat in the federal budget.

We have never heard this before

he will do it by trimming the fat in the federal budget.

ie the pork that politicians give themselves. Entirely corrupt.

Yes, it's been heard before, but that because it's always lying politicians saying it. Trump is not a scumbag politician that is trying to keep his snout in the trough, so he is in a good position to veto any bills with pork attached, unlike Clinton who is as corrupt as any politician, if not more so.

[thaibeachlovers]

Obama promised change and people were hungry for it.

Sadly, that was just electioneering and they got more of the same revolving-door, lobbyist driven billsh1t.

Trump again offers change but this time it appears he is not a sell out like Obama.

If Trump gets in, politics will change forever in the US. No longer will we see hour long interviews with politicians avoiding answering a single question. The politicians will be forced to take a stand.

Hillary has no experience. I run a software company but my wife couldnt. Hillaries' claim to fame is that she was married to a president.

It amazes me that people worry about a billionaire businessman becoming president but think being an ex-presidents housewife is qualification enough.

I agree with you , in the unlikely event Trump gets elected politics will change for ever

watch what you wish for, change is not always good.

30 % of the republicans support support Trump at this time in a very crowded field, the remaining 70% do not, what remains to be seen is , when the field settles to two or three candidates as it will inevitable do, how many of the 70% will gravitate to Tramp and how many to his opponent/ opponents

Given his behavior so far, I am willing to say that his outrageous behavior attract the outrageous fringe wing of the republican party who max out at 30% , and the remaining 70% will support others,

if the field settles to two, I predict Trump will loose by a large margin.

In the end the only effect Trump will have in this election is to cause the eventual republican nominee to drift too far to the right, to his/hers detriment in the general election.

By 'outrageous behavior' I presume you mean actually answering questions?

No , by courageous behavior I mean the nature of his statements and demeanor.

as far as answering questions, he is actually answering NOTHING, when asked how he will acomplish these things he says he will, his only answer is

, by the force of his incredible personality .Ohh wait, and he is smart

in an interview on CNN yesterday one of his minions when asked how will Trump acomplish the things he said he do, he said he will release these facts as needed, it is not necessary for him to release complicated strategies now that the american people will not even understand.

In his opinion the American people are too stupid also,

I agree, at least the 30% of republicans who support them are.

Remember for him to be elected President he will need the remaining 70% of republicans many independents and some democrats

Good luck that happening

Ohh and on lowering taxes, while rebuilding the infrastructure, and increasing benefits, he said he will do it by trimming the fat in the federal budget.

We have never heard this before

watch what you wish for, change is not always good.

And no change means more of the same garbage that has been the past 2 presidents. Do you really want more of that?

[Publicus]

Fair enough. Another name for these folks is "millennials."

Well maybe a branch of them, they do not understand conservatism due to inexperience or perhaps sheltered due to life in a gated community. That's my take but the Rolling Stone article is revealing.

More about the popularity of Trump: Ann Coulter implies Trump is proof that "God has not given up on America yet."

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIDjsKw1y8Q

You're quoting Ann Coulter? Man, that lady is the looniest of the looneys.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.676293

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/13/ann_coulters_nativist_bigotry_gets_ripped_to_shreds_in_debate_when_its_white_people_its_irrelevant_but_when_its_not_white_people_it_is_primitive/

This is why we have such a wide chasm in America right now. People that I think are complete nutbags (e.g., Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Carson, Cruz, et al) you probably think are legit. Even the word "conservatism" means different things to different people. Those on the right and left will never agree. All we can hope for is that our side outnumbers the other side.

You could put all those people together and the sum total of "nutbaginess" would be way short of Pelosi. She is the nuttiest person I have ever seen, and that she was Dems leader in the house says it all about the Dems, LOL.

No one can seriously say the past years of the Dems in charge have been good for America. Just because the GOP aren't any better is not to say the Dems are good. The US political system is broken, and bad for the whole world.

The US political system is broken, and bad for the whole world.

It will self-correct, as it always does.

Frankly for the time being the world might well be benefiting from some restraint by Washington supported by the vast majority of Americans. Americans know from the 20th century especially we can't withdraw, self-isolate or ignore, so this won't be absolute nor would it last forever by any means.

And it's benefiting life expectancy in the USA by keeping the armed forces and Americans in general from foreign adventures of the Bush-Cheney kind, which are the worst kind imaginable by the United States, worse than the Vietnam debacle. Good for the economy too.

The basic lesson in the two calamities of Vietnam and Iraq is no more land wars involving large units of ground forces. Hence the new Pentagon Air-Sea Battle Doctrine adopted in 2010 and now being fully implemented. Next time will be blasting 'em furiously with accurate high powered barrages from sea and air. See how much they out there have a stomach for that.

Trump and most Americans and even fewer foreigners have any notion of it.