jacksam Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) The elite visa which costs 500,000 thb for 5 years. You shouldn't have a problem getting another tourist visa from your home country or another country neighbouring Thailand. You won't be refused entry if holding a TR. Set up a company so you can have a non 'B' visa and WP. There are companies that will, for a fee, employ you and organise a work permit. (sorry I don't know much about them other than they are expensive) Unfortunately Thailand doesn't want people your age living and working here illegally.</p>Sound advice as always. One reason they don't want people your age living here is presumably you need to work. OP works on internet. Technically illegal to do that in Thailand. No work permit. Anyway the common problem is most of possible suggestions, like the elite card are EXPENSIVE. OP mentioned he is 27. Can't generalize but most (not all) people at 27 are not flush with spare cash.Only cheap option would be to get married. Well cheap initially. However you can stay for quite some time on tourist visas especially if you can demonstrate funds etc upon reenter. Edited October 13, 2015 by jacksam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxtingtong Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I'm in yours same boat mate, big headache, Thailand don't want this people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christie Paul Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 If you are an ambitious young entrepreneur with skills and can make a contribution to the economy - this is not the place for you. From top to bottom, the system will work against you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petchabun Man Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 The question should be: Why ? Not that many of the elders here are high quality expats but the young ones lack a serious lack of wisdom and forethought. The women even more so. Watch the show Sun ,Sex, and Suspicious Parents for fine examples of the living brain dead in Thailand. Most could not get themselves out of a paper bag. Truly SCARY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parafareno Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 same here, 40 yo living off the net exclusively for 10 years Dont panic!!! Get 3 entry visa, so that is like 6 months than off to Laos to get additional 2 entries and you can stay up to one year When you come home tell your gov that you lost passport and they will make you a new one....so the Thais will not see previous stamps.... Just listen to the master.....me I am going back to Thailand now, to stay one year again.....should not be a problem, have a new passport and everything.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jspill Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 One reason they don't want people your age living here is presumably you need to work. OP works on internet. Technically illegal to do that in Thailand. That's just an assumption based on the Alien Labor act defining working as 'working' in a circular reference. Then it goes on to mention having a Thai employer and Thai Baht salary about 17 times. There's nothing explicit or even slighty implied in there about work done on the internet being illegal. Anyway that's been discussed in many threads - there's no clear answer. More likely the reason they don't want lots of young people living here cheaply is the social impact, they worry about their culture being diluted by westerners. Older people are less of a threat in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Another Option, which is not mention yet is: - Investement Visa (10 Million baht investement which, as far i understand could be property (condo) or bank assets. Unfortunatelly there aren't many information on this kind of visa.. Someone said just yesterday that a condo isn't classed as an "investment" so you would need to sink 10 million into something else as well as buy a condo to qualify... Seems a bit expensive just to get a visa... I'm pretty sure that condo's qualify.IMO it's not a good idea to do it just to get the visa, but if someone has decided to live and buy here they can get a visa/extension of stay off the back of it. Ownership of property alone doesn't equal permission to live in it I don't know anyone who ever got a visa for owning a condo, do you? A colleague of mine lives here on an investment visa/extension for a condo purchase. She bought the condo in around 2005 for about 7 million baht, and then was 'grandfathered' in after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I moved here around 10 years ago in my mid twenties, like yourself, and derive income from outside of Thailand. These are your options in terms of long term visa: 1 - Thai Elite 2 - Get married (probably best to have someone you actually want to get married to) - Non O 3 - Use one of the umbrella companies, like iglu.in.th - Non B 4 - Set up a Thai business, you don't need to run everything through it, just 50k or so - Non B 5 - Take up a course and actually attend - Non Imm ED 6 - Use one of the new multiple tourist visas (probably not going to work long term though) Thai Elite is probably the simplest of all, and imo would work out the cheapest over 5 years, when you factor in the time cost of dealing with the bureaucracy for all of the others. All except 3 or 4 would leave open the possibility of being construed by the relevant authorities to be 'working in Thailand' without a permit, though as jspil points out, you would be the first person to be prosecuted for doing so that I am aware of, either in Thailand or abroad. There is also an investment visa option, but I can't offer you info on that, I stick to the rule 'only bring in to Thailand what you need in Thailand'. Dont you need 4 employees for a WP therefore costing more than 50k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyj Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) I always find it amazing the number of "digital nomads" who are working online, want to live it up somewhere... but don't want to do so legally. the fact is if you can't afford the 500,000 baht for a elite card, you probably aren't contributing significantly to the economy anyway. at current exchange rates that is around $250 usd a month - which isn't really that much if you are making a good living and want to settle down somewhere like Thailand. The reality though, is a lot of these folks are making just enough to sustain themselves - which is fine; so I suggest they go to countries with easier visa's (say cambodia or malaysia, or many places in africa) at which they want to be somewhere cheap, but also with reliable infrastructure... infrastructure they don't contribute to the upkeep of with their taxes (sure they pay taxes on purchases etc. but its not really the same) Edited October 13, 2015 by johnnyj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlQaholic Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) I do not know how the Thai authorities judge if working on-line is "working in Thailand" or not. But I think it could be compared with someone say for example working out something in his mind whilst being in Thailand, for example a formula or equation or invention, would that then be considered "working in Thailand"? I think not. Or is it just the simple fact that generating an income while in Thailand and not paying taxes for that income that is the definition? which makes a lot of sense in which case the online work is formally "working in Thailand". Edited October 13, 2015 by AlQaholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jspill Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I always find it amazing the number of "digital nomads" who are working online, want to live it up somewhere... but don't want to do so legally. the fact is if you can't afford the 500,000 baht for a elite card, you probably aren't contributing significantly to the economy anyway. at current exchange rates that is around $250 usd a month - which isn't really that much if you are making a good living and want to settle down somewhere like Thailand. Again it's not explicitly illegal to have a monetized blog about cats and withdraw some Adsense revenue to a Skrill debit card, and spend that on a pad Thai, while on Thai soil on a tourist visa. Also don't Thailand elite T&Cs also state 'employment prohibited'? If you think that means also means online work for tourists, the same applies to Thai Elite members. Can't have it both ways. With Thailand Elite you're paying for not having to do border runs, and airport limos / golf membership perks, not for the explicit right to work online 'legally'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwdrwdrwd Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I moved here around 10 years ago in my mid twenties, like yourself, and derive income from outside of Thailand. These are your options in terms of long term visa: 1 - Thai Elite 2 - Get married (probably best to have someone you actually want to get married to) - Non O 3 - Use one of the umbrella companies, like iglu.in.th - Non B 4 - Set up a Thai business, you don't need to run everything through it, just 50k or so - Non B 5 - Take up a course and actually attend - Non Imm ED 6 - Use one of the new multiple tourist visas (probably not going to work long term though) Thai Elite is probably the simplest of all, and imo would work out the cheapest over 5 years, when you factor in the time cost of dealing with the bureaucracy for all of the others. All except 3 or 4 would leave open the possibility of being construed by the relevant authorities to be 'working in Thailand' without a permit, though as jspil points out, you would be the first person to be prosecuted for doing so that I am aware of, either in Thailand or abroad. There is also an investment visa option, but I can't offer you info on that, I stick to the rule 'only bring in to Thailand what you need in Thailand'. Dont you need 4 employees for a WP therefore costing more than 50k? Yeah that's why i said 'or so' - though I believe many people operating Thai companies don't actually use employees services, but simply cover the tax as if they were - not sure of the legality of this. Also need to factor in accounting fees and personal income tax - still don't see it going above 60k a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwdrwdrwd Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I do not know how the Thai authorities judge if working on-line is "working in Thailand" or not. But I think it could be compared with someone say for example working out something in his mind whilst being in Thailand, for example a formula or equation or invention, would that then be considered "working in Thailand"? I think not. Or is it just the simple fact that generating an income while in Thailand and not paying taxes for that income that is the definition? which makes a lot of sense in which case the online work is formally "working in Thailand". The Thai definition of working is 'working is working' - make of that what you will. Regardless of whether or not earning income online would be construed as within that definition, tax is not related to it - under Thai tax law, foreign income is only taxable if it is remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned, and the individual in question is tax resident for that year (> 180 days in Thailand in that year). Anybody, Thai or not, can earn billions of dollars outside of Thailand and bring it in tax free, so long as they can wait until the next tax year to do so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Another Option, which is not mention yet is: - Investement Visa (10 Million baht investement which, as far i understand could be property (condo) or bank assets. Unfortunatelly there aren't many information on this kind of visa.. Someone said just yesterday that a condo isn't classed as an "investment" so you would need to sink 10 million into something else as well as buy a condo to qualify... Seems a bit expensive just to get a visa... I'm pretty sure that condo's qualify.IMO it's not a good idea to do it just to get the visa, but if someone has decided to live and buy here they can get a visa/extension of stay off the back of it. Ownership of property alone doesn't equal permission to live in it I don't know anyone who ever got a visa for owning a condo, do you? A colleague of mine lives here on an investment visa/extension for a condo purchase. She bought the condo in around 2005 for about 7 million baht, and then was 'grandfathered' in after that. Its a lifetime visa? I've never met anyone else who qualified for one like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli42 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I know this does not answer your question but why live in Thailand at your age? Sure, there are many good things about living here but it's a backwater. For 99% of people it's a place to retire not a place to build a career. Few companies will value the work you do here believing (not incorrectly) the standard and skill set are low. You will be trashing any chance you have and for a career and getting paid poorly for it. Stay in your home country or move to the USA (if you are in IT) and build your career, skills and income. You can always visit Thailand and plan for an early retirement. Don't waste your golden earning years in Thailand ... you will regret it later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post robblok Posted October 13, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted October 13, 2015 The elite visa which costs 500,000 thb for 5 years. You shouldn't have a problem getting another tourist visa from your home country or another country neighbouring Thailand. You won't be refused entry if holding a TR. Set up a company so you can have a non 'B' visa and WP. There are companies that will, for a fee, employ you and organise a work permit. (sorry I don't know much about them other than they are expensive) Unfortunately Thailand doesn't want people your age living and working here illegally. You misunderstand! The "digital nomads" live in 5* hotels , use the "gratis" Wi FI and pay tax on their huge incomes! They also contribute to the economy of the local mobile noodle stall ! Actually there are quite some digital nomads that make far more as the old guys, there are also many old guys that live of a meager pension contributing almost nothing to the country. But as with all groups there are those who make only a bit of money and those that are successful. The older guys don't like the younger crowd as they don't have to pay for the girls. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaielite Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Visit www.thai-elite.com, simplified site for anyone keen to understand and apply for the program. At the moment the lower entry will be Thailand Easy Access (TEA). Thailand Easy Access Package (2014)- 5 Years- THB 500,000 (included VAT)- Non-transferable- No annual fee- Age not less than 20 years- Airport Fast Track Service- Limousine (24 times/yr)- Special Discount - Government Concierges- 24 hrs Call Center- Upgrade THB 1.5 Mil (ex.Vat) - 5 Yrs Multiple Entry Privilege Visa (Stay Extension report once a year done by Elite office) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gk10002000 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 same here, 40 yo living off the net exclusively for 10 years Dont panic!!! Get 3 entry visa, so that is like 6 months than off to Laos to get additional 2 entries and you can stay up to one year When you come home tell your gov that you lost passport and they will make you a new one....so the Thais will not see previous stamps.... Just listen to the master.....me I am going back to Thailand now, to stay one year again.....should not be a problem, have a new passport and everything.... The Thais won't see the stamps, but most are recorded in their database(s) so it is very likely they will sort things out. Deliberately lying and saying you lost your passport is fraud, and illegal. I am surprised the moderators let that post slip by. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonw8uk Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Another Option, which is not mention yet is: - Investement Visa (10 Million baht investement which, as far i understand could be property (condo) or bank assets. Unfortunatelly there aren't many information on this kind of visa.. Someone said just yesterday that a condo isn't classed as an "investment" so you would need to sink 10 million into something else as well as buy a condo to qualify... Seems a bit expensive just to get a visa... I'm pretty sure that condo's qualify.IMO it's not a good idea to do it just to get the visa, but if someone has decided to live and buy here they can get a visa/extension of stay off the back of it. Ownership of property alone doesn't equal permission to live in it I don't know anyone who ever got a visa for owning a condo, do you? Yes, you can get a visa based on investing no less than 10 million baht, and a NEW condo purchase is included. The investment can be a mixture of a condo, and approved bonds. There is however more rules and regs to it, and you must show the money came from overseas, exchange done in Thailand so on and so forth. Legal advice should be sought if considering this, but the answer remains: Yes, an investment visa is possible based on buying a condo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonw8uk Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Visit www.thai-elite.com, simplified site for anyone keen to understand and apply for the program. At the moment the lower entry will be Thailand Easy Access (TEA). Thailand Easy Access Package (2014) - 5 Years - THB 500,000 (included VAT) - Non-transferable - No annual fee - Age not less than 20 years - Airport Fast Track Service - Limousine (24 times/yr) - Special Discount - Government Concierges - 24 hrs Call Center - Upgrade THB 1.5 Mil (ex.Vat) - 5 Yrs Multiple Entry Privilege Visa (Stay Extension report once a year done by Elite office) 90 day reports still required too right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksam Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 The elite visa which costs 500,000 thb for 5 years. You shouldn't have a problem getting another tourist visa from your home country or another country neighbouring Thailand. You won't be refused entry if holding a TR. Set up a company so you can have a non 'B' visa and WP. There are companies that will, for a fee, employ you and organise a work permit. (sorry I don't know much about them other than they are expensive) Unfortunately Thailand doesn't want people your age living and working here illegally. You misunderstand! The "digital nomads" live in 5* hotels , use the "gratis" Wi FI and pay tax on their huge incomes! They also contribute to the economy of the local mobile noodle stall ! Actually there are quite some digital nomads that make far more as the old guys, there are also many old guys that live of a meager pension contributing almost nothing to the country. But as with all groups there are those who make only a bit of money and those that are successful. The older guys don't like the younger crowd as they don't have to pay for the girls. As usual complete tripe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigt3116 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Certain members of staff in Thai consulates are unfriendly, certain countries especially (e.g. Singapore). Laos is usually the friendliest, I'm surprised you were told that there. Or was it at the border on the way back in? Anyway I'd just chalk it up to that member of staff having a bad day, there's no official limit yet to back to back tourist visas one can obtain from Laos. Here's all the Thaivisa moderators confirming that - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/788273-is-there-any-limit-on-back-to-back-tourist-visas/ After 4 or so in a row they ask for proof of funds to show you're not working in the country at some cash in hand job, if you just show proof of funds coming in from abroad you're fine. Full details on that - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/715011-red-stamp-in-vientiane-advice-needed/ Or you can 'break the chain' of back to back visas by going to Savannakhet, in your position I'd do that. Get a visa from the Thai consulate in your home country first though, you should have zero issues. Renewing your passport for a fresh one also helps, all those one page tourist visa stickers fill it up fast anyway. You get a number of months of 'time left' added on if it's not expired yet, e.g. 9 months for UK passports. Anyway yeah I'd ignore that one off hand comment from one member of staff, get a triple entry visa in my home country, fly in, then go for double entries in Savannakhet after that point. If there was a defined 'abuse' point for tourist visas it hasn't been written into law yet, I don't feel guilty about staying here on tourist visas out of some imagined notion of 'abuse' - it that existed why isn't it clearly stated on every consulate website. Some have stayed for over a decade on tourist visas. There's also the Thailand Elite program which has stood the test of time and is a good option if you're sure you'll be here 5 years, you'll recoup most of the costs by not needing to do border runs. With regards to working you can work online, nothing in the Alien Labor act says it's illegal to freelance remotely online, have a blog, or anything like that. It's not taking jobs away from Thais. That's what I do, I'm also in my 20s and have been here 6 years, I know many other digital nomads in their 20-30s who live here long term too. There's never been an arrest for working online in Thailand, or anywhere in the world, the above scaremongering about being arrested leaves out the fact it was work with a physical presence (tour guide, bartender etc.) Just don't do that and it's fine. How incorrect can you be ? YOU are in Thailand and YOU are working, be it remotely or not - that is illegal without the correct visa and work permit. Tell the online teachers that were arrested and deported from Chaing Mai that there have never been any arrests ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jspill Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 How incorrect can you be ? YOU are in Thailand and YOU are working, be it remotely or not - that is illegal without the correct visa and work permit. Tell the online teachers that were arrested and deported from Chaing Mai that there have never been any arrests ! If I'm incorrect can you show me where in the Alien Labor act it references work done online for offshore entities? I'll show you 10 times where it refers to Thai employers and Thai Baht wages. You mean the teachers that were working in an office for a Thai company, were paid in Baht, and the company had tax issues which is why it drew the attention of the authorities? That's about as far away from the definition of offshore remote work as it gets, so an irrelevant example. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) There is nothing in the Alien Working Act that exempts online work from requiring a WP. Those working online that continue to encourage others to do the same should try the following. On your next visa application write the reason for visa as 'Live in Thailand and work online'. Go to your local Department of Labour, inform them that you work online, and ask for a WP. If successful at obtaining both, or are told a WP isn't needed, please report back. The only reason online workers get away with it is because they do not disclose their activities, are an insignificant number and are probably way down on the authorities hit list. The time and cost of perusing these people is prohibitive alone. Edited October 13, 2015 by elviajero 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 How incorrect can you be ? YOU are in Thailand and YOU are working, be it remotely or not - that is illegal without the correct visa and work permit. Tell the online teachers that were arrested and deported from Chaing Mai that there have never been any arrests ! If I'm incorrect can you show me where in the Alien Labor act it references work done online for offshore entities? I'll show you 10 times where it refers to Thai employers and Thai Baht wages. You mean the teachers that were working in an office for a Thai company, were paid in Baht, and the company had tax issues which is why it drew the attention of the authorities? That's about as far away from the definition of offshore remote work as it gets, so an irrelevant example. He's confused. The Chiang Mai teachers were teaching online in Chiang Mai, the job was done in some Thai company that paid them and did not provide visa. Of course all the foreigners got arrested/deported and the owner was let free. The OP's case is different, he works for foreign companies, he just happened to have relocated his desk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 There is nothing in the Alien Working Act that exempts online work from requiring a WP. Those working online that continue to encourage others to do the same should try the following. On your next visa application write the reason for visa as 'Live in Thailand and work online'. Go to your local Department of Labour, inform them that you work online, and and ask for a WP. If successful at obtaining both, or are told a WP isn't needed, please report back. The only reason online workers get away with it is because they do not disclose their activities, are an insignificant number and are probably way down on the authorities hit list. The time and cost of perusing these people is prohibitive alone. So effectively the government does not care about them. Remember the case of the digital nomads that were arrested and let go without charging once it was clear the money came from ouside of the country ? Anyway just means its not legal but no enforcement after it. On the other hand it does mean there is no visa for it. So don't moan about the visa they can't get and be happy you can work without the government going after you actively. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigt3116 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 WORKING OF ALIEN ACT, B.E. 2551 (2008) Part2 Work Permit Section 9. No alien shall engage in any work other than the works under section 7 and the permit shall be granted by the registrar, except for the alien who enters into the Kingdom temporarily under the law on immigration so as to engage in necessary and urgent work for a period of not exceeding fifteen days and that alien may engage in that work after giving written notification to the registrar. In the issuance of the permit, the registrar may impose any conditions to be complied with by the alien. The permit, the application for and the issuance of the permit and the giving of notification under paragraph one shall be in accordance with the form and procedure as prescribed by the Ministerial Regulation. The Director-General may lay down the guideline for prescribing of the conditions under paragraph two to be complied with by the registrar Section 11. Whoever desires to engage an alien living abroad to work for his business in the Kingdom may apply for the permit and pay fee on behalf of that alien. The application for the permit on behalf of the alien under paragraph one shall be in accordance with the procedure as prescribed by the Ministerial Regulation. CHAPTER VI Penalties Section 51. An alien who engages in work without having the permit shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of not exceeding five years or to a fine from two thousand Baht to one hundred thousand Baht or to both. In the case where the accused under paragraph one wilfully departs the Kingdom within the period specified by the inquiry official, but not more than thirty days, the inquiry official may settle the case and causes that alien to depart the Kingdom Do you have a work permit for your digital nomading ? The term “work” covers both physical and mental activities, and is defined as “working by exerting one’s physical energy or employing one’s knowledge, whether or not for wages or other benefits”. Working without a valid work permit even for a day is a criminal offense. Employers who violate the law face fines of up to 60,000 Baht and/or jail terms of up to three years. Foreign employees found in breach of the law can be jailed for up to three months and/or fined up to 5,000 baht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jspill Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) There is nothing in the Alien Working Act that exempts online work from requiring a WP. Those working online that continue to encourage others to do the same should try the following. On your next visa application write the reason for visa as 'Live in Thailand and work online'. Go to your local Department of Labour, inform them that you work online, and ask for a WP. If successful at obtaining both, or are told a WP isn't needed, please report back. The only reason online workers get away with it is because they do not disclose their activities, are an insignificant number and are probably way down on the authorities hit list. The time and cost of perusing these people is prohibitive alone. Forgive me if I put the burden of proof on the people telling me I'm a criminal instead, and don't go out of my way to prove a negative. You realise online income is usually passive, right? So it's slowly entering people's bank accounts without them doing anything. Income isn't linearly related to hours put in anymore, like in the ancestral realm of chisels, overalls and spades. Does anyone with a residual online income become a criminal when they set foot in Thailand? Edited October 13, 2015 by jspill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigt3116 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 All that matters is the location of the WORKER not the location of the parent company or where any salary gets paid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 How can he have a Thai work permit for a company not located in Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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