METV Visa - Vientiane, Laos. It's official.

[No Apologist]

I think they want 2 week Chinese tourists and westerners who have enough money for 6 months, then go home, anyone else, not wanted!

It's not really about 'enough money' though. There is that cry here daily, from angry guys who endlessly wish to be the only foreigners remaining in Thailand. But, if you don't have enough money in Thailand, there's no system to take advantage of. There's no welfare or unemployment of any kind - no free medical care, nothing. There's been no crisis of foreigners not having money in Thailand at all, actually. It's xenophobia, and this government not wanting examples of democracy around to inspire dissatisfaction. There's no vote in Thailand anymore. And when the local populace isn't happy about that, the new leadership blames (non-Chinese) foreigners.

@tribal, If so, they would have written the law this way - 6 mo max on TVs / year.

@NoApologist

Agree entirely about the angry "proper visa" posters (I have a proper visa, a Tourist Visa - and had many more prior).

But, I don't think "democracy or not" has much to do with it. In my country, we have long had "democracy" - yet our government has worked tirelessly, for the past 35 years, hand-in-hand with business-leaders, to make American citizens poorer every year - and enrich the Chinese, who they simulaneously assure us, are "the enemy." This ensures the military-contractors get a piece of the action, as well as those moving middle-class jobs abroad to save a nickel per unit in labor-costs.

I have far more faith in the Thai govt to do well for its people than my own. This new visa looks, to me, like the result of good 'ol-fashioned bureaucracy - multiple groups had different demands, and the chop-suey compromise that resulted is known as the "METV."

Not to stray far from topic, but as a fellow American, I couldn't agree with you more about the state of our (so called) democracy in the US.

Edited November 6, 2015 by No Apologist

[jspill]

Same challenge as always. When you apply for your METV declare your intensions of living in Thailand and working at your business.

Nothing needs resolving as the immigration act is clear about the activities allowed by the holder of any visa. And there is no definition of tourism that includes any type of "working".

I don't see how the requirements to be employed and resident in the country of application can make you think they are ok with that person living permanently in Thailand whilst working for a foreign entity.

This digital nomad from another thread declared his intentions, and was approved for a visa http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/749038-with-a-thai-elite-visa-can-a-person-work-legally-as-a-digital-nomad/page-7#entry8314920

There is a relatively large community of on line workers in Thailand and they're not difficult to find if it was illegal then the co-working spaces would surly attract attention there are at least 3 in BKK and a few in Chiangmai. When I got my last visa I was asked how I supported myself I told them I work on line and showed them statements confirming I was paid into my UK account, they were happy with this and gave me a visa. I've got no interest in being "under the radar" as far as I can see the only people who have an issue with the legality of on line work are other westerners posting on here and their opinions really don't matter.

Tourist visas prohibit 'employment' which most agree means with a Thai Employer. The Alien Labor act mentions Thai employers and Thai Baht wages a dozen times.

I see the requirements to be employed as an alternative to the bank statements required - I believe they'll be fine with seeing either one or the other (similar to retirement extensions requiring 800k or 40k per month), or in G7 countries fine with seeing neither.

I believe the list of requirements won't be enforced in its entirety in every consulate, just like the technical requirement to show 20k baht was rarely ever enforced for single entry tourist visas.

Edited November 6, 2015 by jspill

[No Apologist]

There is a relatively large community of on line workers in Thailand and they're not difficult to find if it was illegal then the co-working spaces would surly attract attention there are at least 3 in BKK and a few in Chiangmai. When I got my last visa I was asked how I supported myself I told them I work on line and showed them statements confirming I was paid into my UK account, they were happy with this and gave me a visa. I've got no interest in being "under the radar" as far as I can see the only people who have an issue with the legality of on line work are other westerners posting on here and their opinions really don't matter.

Tourist visas prohibit 'employment' which most agree means with a Thai Employer, as it stays a dozen times in the immigration act.

Sorry, but they are not in agreement about that. I can't recall how many threads here, and how many time myself I dealt with trying to explain to an authority that my job wasn't 'in' Thailand. They just refused to believe it, as if no such reality could exist.

[cumgranosalum]

looks like it's a typical Thai dictum - some top-down ideas conjured up in the toilet with little or no research to back it up.

My guess is that someone came up with a good idea and then his /her boss decided to take the credit by putting his own stamp on it....and this is the result.

[DanceAllNight]

Personally, I am on a SETV but I can get Non O (either single or multi) easily enough (Thai daughter by Ex GF). METV if required not too much of a problem.

As I have to return once a year to my country of Permanent residence (NOT my country of citizenship). I am under 50 living off a disability pension.

The Consulate in my nearest city back home has assured me I will qualify for METV if I show proof of my pension (since I cant work!). If necessary and required, I will enjoy lovely extended border runs for few weeks at a time every 3-5 months to lovely place or lovely places nearby and thank the MFA and General for the change of and tightening of rules that has inspired me to see new horizons and enjoy other nearby by countries and cultures. If required to do so I'll switch between SETV, non o, METV,perhaps even ED sandwich VE's inbetween as to have back to back tourist visas.

I do sincerely hope others can do similar.

For those that are interested it is possible to do a 3 month ED visa for 11,000 THB in Chiang Mai. Not a bad idea for some, 3 months SETV (60 days + 30 Day extension) do a VE + 30 day exemption 5 months total then go some where lovely and travel for a few weeks say 1 month..documents in hand for 3 month ED visa (no test a immigration as no extension required or given!) do another VE + Extension of VE total 5 months. At this point you are 11 months in Thailand (+ one month traveling around) go for another extended break out of the country for 1 month..by this time is one year since you last applied for a SETV and 7/8 since the last one expired..and you've only had 60 days in that past year on Visa Exempt (VE) entries..so rinse and repeat and stick two fingers up to the rule makers (that's one finger each hand!).

Or find another way of legitimately playing around with existing rules such as a stint volunteering somewhere nice.

i just got a double-entry tourist visa, but after that, i'd like to stay here. I am also interested in learning Thai....for real, not just for a visa. Where is the school for 11,000? Do they provide all docs needed for the visa? And if i have several visas, will that be held against me?

[jspill]

Sorry, but they are not in agreement about that. I can't recall how many threads here, and how many time myself I dealt with trying to explain to an authority that my job wasn't 'in' Thailand. They just refused to believe it, as if no such reality could exist.

It's a grey area currently, sure, but 'employment prohibited' is stamped on the visa, then the Alien Labor act starts with one vague reference in the beginning to 'working is working'.

http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0366.pdf

Then it talks about employers sending in repatriation funds from the employee's wages, limiting the number of craftsmen and laborers in the country, and so on. Seems like 'employment' means work with a physical presence here.

It's definitely not explicitly illegal to work online as some posters claim.

Edited November 6, 2015 by jspill

[elviajero]

Same challenge as always. When you apply for your METV declare your intensions of living in Thailand and working at your business.

Nothing needs resolving as the immigration act is clear about the activities allowed by the holder of any visa. And there is no definition of tourism that includes any type of "working".

I don't see how the requirements to be employed and resident in the country of application can make you think they are ok with that person living permanently in Thailand whilst working for a foreign entity.

Tourist visas prohibit 'employment' which most agree means with a Thai Employer. The Alien Labor act mentions Thai employers and Thai Baht wages a dozen times.

I see the requirements to be employed as an alternative to the bank statements required - I believe they'll be fine with seeing either one or the other (similar to retirement extensions requiring 800k or 40k per month), or in G7 countries fine with seeing neither.

I believe the list of requirements won't be enforced in its entirety in every consulate, just like the technical requirement to show 20k baht was rarely ever enforced for single entry tourist visas.

All visas prohibit employment and restrict activities to those listed in the immigration act. The labour act is irrelevant as it concerns Thai companies employing foreigners.

I am sure embassies will have slightly different requirements, but any that ask for employment and proof of funds will want both because they serve a different purpose.

[seancbk]

2. Valid Lao stary permit card, or Lao work permit, or Lao house registration and ID Card for other nationalities.

4. Prove of employment letter from the employer in Lao PDR.

6. Copy of hotel reservation confirmation in Thailand.

Requirement 2 & 4 cannot be met by any tourists so these rules are clearly posted in the Thai Embassy in Vientiane for local Lao, or people living and working in Lao. They can't possibly be aimed tourists from overseas using Vientiane as a place to get a visa for Thailand.

Requirement 6 if applied to a lot of tourists is tricky as backpackers often arrive with no set booking and simply find somewhere when they arrive. It also makes it tricky for those of us who rent condos or own our own houses and condos.

Finally the money in the bank will make it difficult for many people.

If you are a family with 2 kids how do the kids get their visas? Does each person need a bank account with 200K in? Does one person in a family of 4 need 800,000 in their bank.....

[SS1]

As posted before, visa runs are finished. If you are wanting to stay in Thailand for an extended period then get the correct visa for which your purpose of stay correlates to.
Apply for a tourist visa from your home Thailand consulate. The visa run days of back to back are history. Get the correct visa.

So what about when you really are just a long term tourist in Thailand? I mean it's been discussed to death, but there is no "correct visa" available for a young person who receives an income from abroad or online and wishes to stay in Thailand.

Lets take my situation for example, what would be the "correct visa"?
-I live in Thailand, because I like staying here and traveling around
-I study for a UK distance learning course so I'm location independent (can't get ED visa for this)
-I receive a steady income from abroad, however I'm not working in Thailand
-I don't want to get married and don't have time to study Thai either..

[alocacoc]

Requirement 6 if applied to a lot of tourists is tricky as backpackers often arrive with no set booking and simply find somewhere when they arrive. It also makes it tricky for those of us who rent condos or own our own houses and condos.

I would bet that they accept a rental agreement.

[elviajero]

As posted before, visa runs are finished. If you are wanting to stay in Thailand for an extended period then get the correct visa for which your purpose of stay correlates to.

Apply for a tourist visa from your home Thailand consulate. The visa run days of back to back are history. Get the correct visa.

So what about when you really are just a long term tourist in Thailand? I mean it's been discussed to death, but there is no "correct visa" available for a young person who receives an income from abroad or online and wishes to stay in Thailand.

Lets take my situation for example, what would be the "correct visa"?

-I live in Thailand, because I like staying here and traveling around

-I study for a UK distance learning course so I'm location independent (can't get ED visa for this)

-I receive a steady income from abroad, however I'm not working in Thailand

-I don't want to get married and don't have time to study Thai either..

If there isn't a visa/extension of stay to fit your situation it means you are not expected to be staying here. There isn't a visa for everyone, probably for a reason.

[elviajero]

2. Valid Lao stary permit card, or Lao work permit, or Lao house registration and ID Card for other nationalities.

4. Prove of employment letter from the employer in Lao PDR.

6. Copy of hotel reservation confirmation in Thailand.

Requirement 2 & 4 cannot be met by any tourists so these rules are clearly posted in the Thai Embassy in Vientiane for local Lao, or people living and working in Lao. They can't possibly be aimed tourists from overseas using Vientiane as a place to get a visa for Thailand.

Requirement 6 if applied to a lot of tourists is tricky as backpackers often arrive with no set booking and simply find somewhere when they arrive. It also makes it tricky for those of us who rent condos or own our own houses and condos.

Finally the money in the bank will make it difficult for many people.

If you are a family with 2 kids how do the kids get their visas? Does each person need a bank account with 200K in? Does one person in a family of 4 need 800,000 in their bank.....

Why would backpackers or families need to stay more than 3 months? The SETV would cover most of the visitors in both groups. And the minority that do want longer can get SETV's locally if they want to extend their stay.

[jspill]

If there isn't a visa/extension of stay to fit your situation it means you are not expected to be staying here. There isn't a visa for everyone, probably for a reason.

That's your opinion.

Thailand officials have said that we're 'acceptable' however.

'when asked about specialists offering advice for overseas clients in overseas markets, he felt that so long as they did not offer that advice to Thais or foreigners in Thailand that would be acceptable.'

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/473613-working-legally-in-thailand-immigration-and-labour-departments-speaks-out/

[crazydrummerpauly]

Personally don't care what anyone does to stay here long term. Why moan about fairly lax conditions. Just overstay for ten years.

Overstaying for any length of time - certainly double figures ! - requires a highly restricted life-style doesn't it ? Don't you have to virtually live like a hermit ? With no car, no licence, no apartment with contract, no trips with proper hotel administration etc etc.

[swampdonkey]

As posted before, visa runs are finished. If you are wanting to stay in Thailand for an extended period then get the correct visa for which your purpose of stay correlates to.

Apply for a tourist visa from your home Thailand consulate. The visa run days of back to back are history. Get the correct visa.

And your position in Thai Immigration office is?

Steven is correct, if you have a genuine reason for long stay get the appropriate visa

They are easy to apply for if you qualify.

These changes have been caused because the system has been abused for years.

If all else fails there is always the elite option

[elviajero]

If there isn't a visa/extension of stay to fit your situation it means you are not expected to be staying here. There isn't a visa for everyone, probably for a reason.

That's your opinion.

Thailand officials have said that we're 'acceptable' however.

'when asked about specialists offering advice for overseas clients in overseas markets, he felt that so long as they did not offer that advice to Thais or foreigners in Thailand that would be acceptable.'

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/473613-working-legally-in-thailand-immigration-and-labour-departments-speaks-out/

No they haven't. One person made a comment that in no way covers the gamut of remote workers.

[Derek JM]

Personally, I am on a SETV but I can get Non O (either single or multi) easily enough (Thai daughter by Ex GF). METV if required not too much of a problem.

As I have to return once a year to my country of Permanent residence (NOT my country of citizenship). I am under 50 living off a disability pension.

The Consulate in my nearest city back home has assured me I will qualify for METV if I show proof of my pension (since I cant work!). If necessary and required, I will enjoy lovely extended border runs for few weeks at a time every 3-5 months to lovely place or lovely places nearby and thank the MFA and General for the change of and tightening of rules that has inspired me to see new horizons and enjoy other nearby by countries and cultures. If required to do so I'll switch between SETV, non o, METV,perhaps even ED sandwich VE's inbetween as to have back to back tourist visas.

I do sincerely hope others can do similar.

For those that are interested it is possible to do a 3 month ED visa for 11,000 THB in Chiang Mai. Not a bad idea for some, 3 months SETV (60 days + 30 Day extension) do a VE + 30 day exemption 5 months total then go some where lovely and travel for a few weeks say 1 month..documents in hand for 3 month ED visa (no test a immigration as no extension required or given!) do another VE + Extension of VE total 5 months. At this point you are 11 months in Thailand (+ one month traveling around) go for another extended break out of the country for 1 month..by this time is one year since you last applied for a SETV and 7/8 since the last one expired..and you've only had 60 days in that past year on Visa Exempt (VE) entries..so rinse and repeat and stick two fingers up to the rule makers (that's one finger each hand!).

Or find another way of legitimately playing around with existing rules such as a stint volunteering somewhere nice.

i just got a double-entry tourist visa, but after that, i'd like to stay here. I am also interested in learning Thai....for real, not just for a visa. Where is the school for 11,000? Do they provide all docs needed for the visa? And if i have several visas, will that be held against me?

1) as stated the school is in Chiang mai and ED visa only 3 months at 11,000. NOT the full year one. AUA Sunday walking street.

2) Yes, for the initial 3 month ED Visa, but they wont give you docs for an extension as you agreed to 3 months of study. Perhaps for another 11,000 they would.

3) No idea, each case is different. For me, I am self funding, not working in any shape or form and can prove an income from outside of Thailand.

[puukao]

you don't understand!!! I need permanent vacation to find myself!!! I will be super happy every day with 30 baht soup and 10 baht fruit shakes. i promise i will be no bother, but i have no money and no job and i don't ever plan on working because i am new person!!!!

haha......you dreamers must go home and work for the man and make big money!!!!! then come back. we only care about the money, not your ideals!!!!

[bigjohn72]

Well, if u havent got 200k then why on earth you taking 6 months holidays... No other country will allow you in, without proving you can take care of yourself...

Thousands of foreigners living here permanently, without proper funds, using Non-Imm O visas/extensions.

They should be kicked out too?

[oncearugge]

Well, if u havent got 200k then why on earth you taking 6 months holidays... No other country will allow you in, without proving you can take care of yourself...

Thousands of foreigners living here permanently, without proper funds, using Non-Imm O visas/extensions.

They should be kicked out too?

"Thousands of foreigners living here permanently, without proper funds, using Non-Imm O visas/extensions."

Evidence for that assertion can be found where ?

[louse1953]

So, visa exempt entries or single entry tourist visas will be the only practical visitor visas. Digital nomads and oil workers not catered for.

It is their country, but I feel this is a mistake.

Rig pigs will be fine,how many have 90 days off.Pikeys can drift off to Cambo and holiday here,occasionly.

[bigjohn72]

Well, if u havent got 200k then why on earth you taking 6 months holidays... No other country will allow you in, without proving you can take care of yourself...

Thousands of foreigners living here permanently, without proper funds, using Non-Imm O visas/extensions.

They should be kicked out too?

"Thousands of foreigners living here permanently, without proper funds, using Non-Imm O visas/extensions."

Evidence for that assertion can be found where ?

Not going to discuss it publicly, but they're exist.

[louse1953]

If you read the previous requirements they were supposed to ask for 20k but never did, so who know what they are going to actually ask...

Like everything in LOS, there is the rule and there is its application, which most often is completely different.

Yeah,but your not applying in LOS,you area applying in your home country at a Royal Thai Consulate.

[louse1953]

Rkidlad is most likley right and a spike in marriage extentions coming. In other words that will get messed up as well. If they start changing the rules.

That or retirement visa... the one that seems the way out for everyone... I can feel a crackdown coming next...

It's impossible to rort if your over 50 or not,and that's what this is all about,rorters,whether it be Ed visa or tourist visa or visa exempt.

[oncearugge]

Well, if u havent got 200k then why on earth you taking 6 months holidays... No other country will allow you in, without proving you can take care of yourself...

Thousands of foreigners living here permanently, without proper funds, using Non-Imm O visas/extensions.

They should be kicked out too?

"Thousands of foreigners living here permanently, without proper funds, using Non-Imm O visas/extensions."

Evidence for that assertion can be found where ?

Not going to discuss it publicly, but they're exist.

OK!

PM me with the evidence which supports the existence of "Thousands of foreigners living here permanently, without proper funds, using Non-Imm O "visas/extensions."

[louse1953]

Interesting they include proof of marriage as one of the options, as usually such people would apply for a non-o. A 12 month ME non-o will cost about the same? Much better option compared to this 6 month METV.

The real gotcha here is the requirement to show proof of funds, and employment, not limited to the country of your pp, but you need to be living and working (legally) in the country where you apply.

Perhaps a flood of motorbikes, cars, huge tvs and many other 'toys' for sale soon? High-end desktops and sound systems are on my radar...

So if for instance I am an Australian over 60 but retired early, I need to be able to prove I am employed in Australia to obtain I double-entry tourist visa in my country? Even though I have no job but have enough money to support myself?

if you are over sixty do a search on many of the threads on the forum. You could easily get a non O visa that you could extend on the basis of retirement for years to come provided you meet the financial requirements which aren't that onerous - about 33k dollars in the bank. Don't count on any Aussie support though, pension etc, once you are here.

What are you talking about,of course you can get the AOAP,but there are hoops that must be jumped through.

[louse1953]

One last hope for Vietnam & Indonesia, but not holding breath...

The Thai Embassy in Washington, USA already has a similar worded announcment.

I would say that this is world-wide.

the Thai Embassys in Britain allow for Postal Applications (if sent to a british address) friend or parents.

maybe a possibility to send passport to the UK,,, get your family or friends to re-post the passport application to the consulate and get visa.

then send passport (DHL) back to you in Thailand with the appropriate visa.

then you do a visa run to Poipet and ACTIVATE this visa..

will my idea work ? can you see any flaw in my idea ?

apart from not having your passport on you for a few weeks, not really a big deal.

and DHL or UPS will make sure passport is safe in transit.

seriously, will my idea work? (if you are british).

maybe USA and other countries also have local visa applications by post.

What about your job and your 200k in your bank.Nice try.

[bamukloy]

I'd wager a bet this will make for a huge wave of future overstayers.

People who cut off all ties long ago from their countries one way or another and have no choice really, in their own minds anyway.

I wouldnt be suprised if theres been a flood of overstayers scrambling like rats to borders and airports recently,, to settle their old overstay and head back in to try it again with a clean slate.

It would be a sad state of affairs if you cant bare (or afford) to go home a few months a year.

Its only going to get worse.

I fear the next round...they will be training all police officers on the ground and in the provinces, to check passports of every farang they see.

and probably give cash reward for each farang they catch on overstay.

get legal is my advice and go back home for future visas.

Many have had a very long free ride

[louse1953]

Hmmmm...the new government order.

Give it six months and it will be corrupted somehow, someway and people will still be able to get a double entry visa...somehow, some way.

Meantime a pain in the butt for all too many people.

Cheers

Tell him, he's dreaming.

[bamukloy]

I'd wager a bet this will make for a huge wave of future overstayers.

People who cut off all ties long ago from their countries one way or another and have no choice really, in their own minds anyway.

I wouldnt be suprised if theres been a flood of overstayers scrambling like rats to borders and airports recently,, to settle their old overstay and head back in to try it again with a clean slate.

It would be a sad state of affairs if you cant bare (or afford) to go home a few months a year.

Its only going to get worse.

I fear the next round...they will be training all police officers on the ground and in the provinces, to check passports of every farang they see.

and probably give cash reward for each farang they catch on overstay.

get legal is my advice and go back home for future visas.

Many have had a very long free ride