Western couple buying a house in thailand

[TheKnave]

If you want lose money go ahead , and buy, advice here is pretty simple , dont forget visa rules change all the time.

The visa "rules" have been changing all the time, for the past 50-years.Yet, there remains a boatload of western expats whom have remained in The Kingdom for 30+ years.

They have bought homes, wives, children, even grandchildren, without having endured any significant Thai Immigration Law changes, that adversely affected their particular chosen lifestyles.

Whistling in the dark.

No significant Immigration changes, at least compared to the current ones, in the 30+ years I have been in and out of Thailand. For 20+ it was dirt simple. Not so since the growing xenophobia of the Thai Rak Thai, and, now, the military junta.

Red sky at morning...

[TheKnave]

If you want lose money go ahead , and buy, advice here is pretty simple , dont forget visa rules change all the time.

I understand this argument, but at the same time, if you are paying rent every month, say $B30,000 a month, you have spent $B1.8 million over 5 years, with no return whatsoever. My case may be different, but from my perspective, my Thai wife is younger than me, and will most likely outlive me. I am comfortable with owning a house because I will know she always has a roof over her head in her name. She can sell it if she wants. That is her choice. If by some chance our marriage fails, and I do nto see that happening, the amount spent on the house is nothing in the scheme of life, and I could walk away and move on.

What part of "WESTERN COUPLE" do you not understand?

Neither of them have the right of domicile in Thailand, whereas, those with successful marriages to Thai nationals do.

Get it?

In any case, for every foreigner who bought a house in Thailand, and has had a happy and contented life, I'm willing to bet there are 10 or more who have wished they never invested their hard-earned in such an unstable place.

Add that neither of them apparently speak Thai, or have a clue about what life in a mooban is like, what chance have they of running this ever-tightening gauntlet?

Always rent first. Never buy in Thailand, but especially now.

[TSF]

Now's not the time to be coming to Thailand to start a new life and buy property. The country's still under military control, one by one they have been picking on groups of foreigners and forcing them out of the country (notice English teachers are the latest group to get the squeeze) There's no future for foreigners (from the West) in Thailand. All you can count on is you're here until the expiry date of your current visa. None of us know for sure if we'll get extensions after that date.

Remember that old saying: Never buy anything in Thailand that you can't fit into a suitcase (or you're not prepared to just walk away from)

[csabo]

I don't know where the OP's are from but most likely they would not buy a house in their home country if the could not own the land under it as that would be stupid. Doesn't mean it's never been done without problems but why create a long term risk if you don't have to. If you are dead set on a private home (as I would be, never live in a condo or apartment again) then do what everyone else has said. Get a knock down house. The ones built out of shipping containers are getting fairly high tech now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih9P8Vwdd60

[canda]

Do you seriously think that people that are considering moving to this country can't organise their own lives when it comes to staying here on a long-term basis ?

Your bet re the1 in 10 foreigners investing here is based on what criteria ?

Sure, there are winners & losers in all aspects of life, if one is careful and uses caution & a little brain power they might just remain on the winners side.

In regard to 'having a clue about what life is like in a Mooban' could you explain the advantages other than the fact they are cheap ?

CANDA.

If you want lose money go ahead , and buy, advice here is pretty simple , dont forget visa rules change all the time.

I understand this argument, but at the same time, if you are paying rent every month, say $B30,000 a month, you have spent $B1.8 million over 5 years, with no return whatsoever. My case may be different, but from my perspective, my Thai wife is younger than me, and will most likely outlive me. I am comfortable with owning a house because I will know she always has a roof over her head in her name. She can sell it if she wants. That is her choice. If by some chance our marriage fails, and I do nto see that happening, the amount spent on the house is nothing in the scheme of life, and I could walk away and move on.

What part of "WESTERN COUPLE" do you not understand?

Neither of them have the right of domicile in Thailand, whereas, those with successful marriages to Thai nationals do.

Get it?

In any case, for every foreigner who bought a house in Thailand, and has had a happy and contented life, I'm willing to bet there are 10 or more who have wished they never invested their hard-earned in such an unstable place.

Add that neither of them apparently speak Thai, or have a clue about what life in a mooban is like, what chance have they of running this ever-tightening gauntlet?

Always rent first. Never buy in Thailand, but especially now.

[stgrhe]

Except for a very few exceptions foreign nationals cannot buy land in their own name. Dwelling may, however, be owned.

There are a few perfectly legal ways of having possessory rights to land; 1) through a lease-hold, 2) through a usufruct. 3) through a superficies, and 4) through the rights of habitation. By far the most common methode is a lease-right, which initially can be signed for a maximum period of 30 years with an option for renewal.

With a lease-right there are specifically two thing that you need to pay attention to; 1) many developers, primarely foreign, charge the same for a lease-right as if the buyer is Thai and thus buy the land on freehold, and then charge an annual fee. This means that the lease-holder pays for the land every year. You need a solicitor to make sure that the leasing fee is a one time fee. 2) many foreign developers to not subdivide the land, which legally mean you cannot say you are leasing "this particular piece of land" but rather an undefined piece in the whole development. Stay away from leasing a piece of land unless it is subdivided.

To own the house in your own namn requires an ownership separation, which is not a simple task, but duable. Again, you need a solicitor to made sure it is correctly done.

Good luck

[canda]

Really, if you do a little research you might just realize that that's not quite correct, certain countries have leasehold & freehold land titles available for certain areas, counties, parishes etc,.

Actually, there is currently 23,000 leasehold lots covering all of Canberra ACT in Australia. I'd doubt anyone involved would consider themselves stupid.

CANDA.

I don't know where the OP's are from but most likely they would not buy a house in their home country if the could not own the land under it as that would be stupid. Doesn't mean it's never been done without problems but why create a long term risk if you don't have to. If you are dead set on a private home (as I would be, never live in a condo or apartment again) then do what everyone else has said. Get a knock down house. The ones built out of shipping containers are getting fairly high tech now.

Screen Shot 2015-11-15 at 2.18.49 PM.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih9P8Vwdd60

[huawei]

Thanks all. Again a bit more background. We lived in hong kong for a year and a half. Paying a fortune for a box. Again with noisy neighbour's. No manners etc. We have lived here for 2 years. So far spending about 1 million on rent. 40k per month. Our returns on that are absolutely nothing. My job is in Asia so I don't need to move anywhere And my daughter is settled in school. So guardian visa we have. We have rented for a long time and feel we can never do anything with the property and am quite frankly sick.of that and lining others pockets. So if we buy and decide to sell in 7 years or so. And we have to reduce the price. It seems a lot more lucrative than losing 3.5 million in rent costs over 7 years. Like I said the question is now. 30 year lease or business route. I know they are clamping down on this business route idea. So the lease seems more appealing to me. But again I will be looking into it and speaking with the relative parties. Cheers again.

I understand your desire to buy, but not your desire for a house instead of a condo under foreign ownership.

Agree. Lived in all types. Condos in great blocks, with reasonable management, within a good social economic group is the best option. Very good quality of living in a good location.

[trogers]

Except for a very few exceptions foreign nationals cannot buy land in their own name. Dwelling may, however, be owned.

There are a few perfectly legal ways of having possessory rights to land; 1) through a lease-hold, 2) through a usufruct. 3) through a superficies, and 4) through the rights of habitation. By far the most common methode is a lease-right, which initially can be signed for a maximum period of 30 years with an option for renewal.

With a lease-right there are specifically two thing that you need to pay attention to; 1) many developers, primarely foreign, charge the same for a lease-right as if the buyer is Thai and thus buy the land on freehold, and then charge an annual fee. This means that the lease-holder pays for the land every year. You need a solicitor to make sure that the leasing fee is a one time fee. 2) many foreign developers to not subdivide the land, which legally mean you cannot say you are leasing "this particular piece of land" but rather an undefined piece in the whole development. Stay away from leasing a piece of land unless it is subdivided.

To own the house in your own namn requires an ownership separation, which is not a simple task, but duable. Again, you need a solicitor to made sure it is correctly done.

Good luck

Great...but who would buy the remaining lease terms after 5-8 years of initial occupancy?

[landslide]

If you want lose money go ahead , and buy, advice here is pretty simple , dont forget visa rules change all the time.

I understand this argument, but at the same time, if you are paying rent every month, say $B30,000 a month, you have spent $B1.8 million over 5 years, with no return whatsoever. My case may be different, but from my perspective, my Thai wife is younger than me, and will most likely outlive me. I am comfortable with owning a house because I will know she always has a roof over her head in her name. She can sell it if she wants. That is her choice. If by some chance our marriage fails, and I do nto see that happening, the amount spent on the house is nothing in the scheme of life, and I could walk away and move on.

What part of "WESTERN COUPLE" do you not understand?

Neither of them have the right of domicile in Thailand, whereas, those with successful marriages to Thai nationals do.

Get it?

In any case, for every foreigner who bought a house in Thailand, and has had a happy and contented life, I'm willing to bet there are 10 or more who have wished they never invested their hard-earned in such an unstable place.

Add that neither of them apparently speak Thai, or have a clue about what life in a mooban is like, what chance have they of running this ever-tightening gauntlet?

Always rent first. Never buy in Thailand, but especially now.

What part of "My case may be different" did you not understand? I standby my comment.

[steven23]

Thanks. I will definitely be looking to get a good law firm and check and tick every box before parting with cash. And just for info. We moved from Hong Kong 2 years ago where we paid a fortune on rent. We now pay 40k for a nice house. Which over 2 years definitely adds up. That's why we are looking to buy. And regarding resale. Maybe after 5 to 8 years or so. Would not go near the 30 years if we took the lease option.

Yes I see people have had horror stories. But at the moment I am lining someone else's pocket with 500 a year. Appreciate your responses

4Ok is a lot! better investment is buying, if you are not in 60ies or 70ies, please consider buying, but with good lawyer and legal check

[williamgeorgeallen]

people are saying in the long term you will save money by not having to rent but this is not completely correct. you need to pay cash for a place here as mortgages are very difficult to get especially as a western couple. better put that money into a rental property back in safe land and use the rent from that to pay your rent here. you will have a better chance of making some capital growth back in the west and can get a more solid rental return if you buy in a desirable location. (generally in highly populated cities and near the city center or coast)

please I say this again RENT RENT RENT. someone said for every successful buy a house there are 10 or more sob stories. why take that risk?

[fekman]

Easy answer.

DONT!!!

If you want to buy somethying, get an apartment.

You can do the business option, but if you not have an active business, then you risk losing the house.

= Bad idea.

Even if you buy as "normal," by leasing, the land and buy the house in your name, its risking a wide range of problems.

= Bad idea.

In Thailand, you should only rent a house, or buy a condo.

The truth is Thailand is getting worse and worse every day, and i think most of us long time expats knows this (even if many refuses to accept the truth)..

Go to Malaysia through the 2home program..

Either way, dont do anything here..

You obviously haven't been to the wasteland that is Malaysia, or you wouldn't be recommending it. Or maybe your standards are quite low.

[swissie]

people are saying in the long term you will save money by not having to rent but this is not completely correct. you need to pay cash for a place here as mortgages are very difficult to get especially as a western couple. better put that money into a rental property back in safe land and use the rent from that to pay your rent here. you will have a better chance of making some capital growth back in the west and can get a more solid rental return if you buy in a desirable location. (generally in highly populated cities and near the city center or coast)

please I say this again RENT RENT RENT. someone said for every successful buy a house there are 10 or more sob stories. why take that risk?

I have been recommending this "way to go" for years. = Invest in your home-country, rent it out and have the rental income pay for your rent in Thailand.

BECAUSE: No matter what visa's are issued to Farangs, they are all "Guest Visa's". A Farang is and remains a "Guest" in Thailand. No matter how you slice it !

There are 3 things that a Farang should not do in Thailand:

- Sell Heroin in front of a police station.

- Get into an argument with Lady Boys at 2 AM on Pattaya's Beach Road.

- Make major Investments in a country, where you are merely classified/tolerated as a "Guest".

Cheers.

[Fairynuff]

I'd love to buy a house here but I'm not Thai so I can't. I won't buy it is somebody else's name, nor set up a company nor use a lease. If I can't own it outright in my name then I'm not going to do it. I wouldn't do it in my country so why on earth would I do it here?? I know and have known so many people that have lost money and/or been ripped off (not always by Thai people).

Buying a condo is a different story. In my time I've bought and sold a number of condos. I believe I've been lucky, maybe luckier than most because I have never lost money, in fact I've always made a good profit. It's always taken time to find a buyer but that's just the way it is here.

I wouldn't buy solely for investment, there are better places for that, but my experiences here have always been good.

As for Malaysia, because it doesn't have the "liberal attitudes" doesn't mean it's not a great place and if Thailand continues on its negative path towards foreigners then it would definitely be my next destination.

So my answer to the OP is yes, buy, but not a house. Buy a condo and it WILL be yours.

[khunPer]

The original Thai wooden houses were designed being more-or-less foldable and moveable, so “knock down” house is not an unusual solution.

Foreigners can own a house, but not the land.

Leasing land is for 30 years, and 30-years only – any option for additional lease period shall not be included in the original Agreement as that may make the Lease Contract void – optionally periods can legally be agreed in a separate Agreement, but may not be worth much.

The company way is risky, as foreigners can only hold up to 49 percent of a Thai company – who’s going own 51 percent and your land/house..?

Furthermore a company with no other activities than holding a plot of land for leaseback to a shareholder may not be legal (it is not legal, but a question if authorities do anything).

Foreigners can own a condo (apartment) if 51% percent of the total number of condos in the project are owned by Thais.

Often the best advice is to rent instead of own – that also gives you the possibility of easy moving if something change and you wish to relocate – in may even be cheaper than “owing”; place your funds in bonds and/or solid dividend shares for property gain instead. If you are not looking for some very outstanding house – which may be expensive to both buy and rent – you can easily find affordable places; of course price varies depending of location, but from 20,000 baht/month (ca. 650 USD) and up you would normally be able to find something...

In my personal opinion owing property in Thailand is because you wish to settle (more-or-less) permanent and/or has Thai family.

Wish you good luck with your plans...

[jacksam]

Here's my tuppence worth. We bought from day one eight years ago and paid 6.2m for the house. The place next door rents for 40k a month. 8 x 12 x 40,000 = 3.84m. So our neighbours have paid almost two thirds of the value and nothing to show for it.

There will always be the insecure cheapskates who baulk at buying, struggling to buy their next beer, so best to ignore them.

As for moving to Malaysia ......... Inshallah. Stick with the Buddhists.

You have overlooked the concept of "opportunity cost" that is the increased value of your initial outlay would of achieved stocks one simple example. Buying hose in los is crazy.

[smotherb]

people are saying in the long term you will save money by not having to rent but this is not completely correct. you need to pay cash for a place here as mortgages are very difficult to get especially as a western couple. better put that money into a rental property back in safe land and use the rent from that to pay your rent here. you will have a better chance of making some capital growth back in the west and can get a more solid rental return if you buy in a desirable location. (generally in highly populated cities and near the city center or coast)

please I say this again RENT RENT RENT. someone said for every successful buy a house there are 10 or more sob stories. why take that risk?

I have been recommending this "way to go" for years. = Invest in your home-country, rent it out and have the rental income pay for your rent in Thailand.

BECAUSE: No matter what visa's are issued to Farangs, they are all "Guest Visa's". A Farang is and remains a "Guest" in Thailand. No matter how you slice it !

There are 3 things that a Farang should not do in Thailand:

- Sell Heroin in front of a police station.

- Get into an argument with Lady Boys at 2 AM on Pattaya's Beach Road.

- Make major Investments in a country, where you are merely classified/tolerated as a "Guest".

Cheers.

I recommend you also do not piss into the wind.

[sead]

Dont listen to the guys here. Why all so negative. Houses in Moo Baans are usually cheap and so are condominiums. Dont look for new ones though or more than 7 floors. There are 5+ years condominiums with more space. The newer projects are high buildings with small rooms and you will be annoyed about the waiting times to elevators.

Any grammatical errors are a gift from me to you

[xylophone]

Thanks. I will definitely be looking to get a good law firm and check and tick every box before parting with cash. And just for info. We moved from Hong Kong 2 years ago where we paid a fortune on rent. We now pay 40k for a nice house. Which over 2 years definitely adds up. That's why we are looking to buy. And regarding resale. Maybe after 5 to 8 years or so. Would not go near the 30 years if we took the lease option.

Yes I see people have had horror stories. But at the moment I am lining someone else's pocket with 500 a year. Appreciate your responses

Quote: “Thanks. I will definitely be looking to get a good law firm and check and tick every box before parting with cash”.

Please do not think that "getting a good law firm" will help you too much, because many of the farangs who have gone down the route of acquiring a house through the company route, which in itself is illegal if the sole purpose of the company is to own property, have been put into this situation by "good law firms".

Many law firms are only interested in getting their fees and are not too bothered with regard to whether it is totally legal or not. So if you think that this is "foolproof" then you need to think again.

I have experience because I have bought two houses here and have rented here also and the rental option is by far the best for many reasons.

As an example, I purchased one house, renovated it and lived in it and later on sold it for a small profit (very lucky) and yet 18 months later I could have bought that place back for almost 30% discount on what I sold it for, had I wanted to.

It was not exactly a "moo baan", however very similar and over that time the whole soi had deteriorated quite markedly, including a hotel and large apartments being built nearby, which overshadowed it, making it look very downmarket indeed.

Now, it is a place I would not even consider renting in, as many of the houses have been rented out and the occupants have been rowdy, unsociable, dirty and occasionally occupied by drug users and gangs.

Do a few numbers and look at what it would cost you to buy a house and also to sell it in seven years time (as you have stated) and if you take the 30% discount on the sale price, would it be about the same as having to rent somewhere else – – my guess is probably somewhere near it, and you still have the hassles with regard to selling it, if indeed you can, and the fees involved with doing so.

When buying, you have no control over who lives next to you, or to whom nearby properties are rented out and trying to move or sell your place in those circumstances is extremely hard. In addition you have no control over who decides to build what and where in that vicinity and in some cases that could make your property undesirable.

Not only that, renting in Thailand is extremely cheap compared to other countries, and extremely cheap when you compare it to the potential loss on a property which is bought. And of course if you rent, you can always move whenever you want and for whatever reason.

My advice, if indeed you need it, is to rent, not only to get an idea of the area in which you are living, but to come to terms with the "quirks" which accompany life in Thailand – – corruption, both in everyday life and to aspects concerning problems with your neighbours and no real legal recourse to rectify this, military governments, changes to rules and regulations with regard to foreigners living here, immigration hassles……….and the list goes on.

For me, knowing now that I can move at a moments notice and be free to rent anywhere else in any part of Thailand, or move out of the country if the political or corruption situation becomes unbearable, far outweigh the aspects of "ownership" (not that you ever really have it) and gives me peace of mind.

If nothing else, rent first for at least a year or two, then make a decision. This advice from someone who has bought and rented here and lived here for nine years.

[KittenKong]

Dont listen to the guys here. Why all so negative. Houses in Moo Baans are usually cheap and so are condominiums.

If you compare with many other countries, property in the areas of Thailand that are popular with tourists is quite expensive.

[MaeJoMTB]

Here's my tuppence worth. We bought from day one eight years ago and paid 6.2m for the house. The place next door rents for 40k a month. 8 x 12 x 40,000 = 3.84m. So our neighbours have paid almost two thirds of the value and nothing to show for it.

There will always be the insecure cheapskates who baulk at buying, struggling to buy their next beer, so best to ignore them.

As for moving to Malaysia ......... Inshallah. Stick with the Buddhists.

You have overlooked the concept of "opportunity cost" that is the increased value of your initial outlay would of achieved stocks one simple example. Buying hose in los is crazy.

I'm with JS on this, a simple calculation,

Lost interest on 6.2M in a Thai savings account for the last 8 years = 1.8M

So effective cost of your house to date 8M baht.

While your neighbors have paid 3.8M

Your figures don't look so good now!

Edited November 15, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[jacksam]

Good advice.

[trogers]

Here's my tuppence worth. We bought from day one eight years ago and paid 6.2m for the house. The place next door rents for 40k a month. 8 x 12 x 40,000 = 3.84m. So our neighbours have paid almost two thirds of the value and nothing to show for it.

There will always be the insecure cheapskates who baulk at buying, struggling to buy their next beer, so best to ignore them.

As for moving to Malaysia ......... Inshallah. Stick with the Buddhists.

You have overlooked the concept of "opportunity cost" that is the increased value of your initial outlay would of achieved stocks one simple example. Buying hose in los is crazy.

I'm with JS on this, a simple calculation,

Lost interest on 6.2M in a Thai savings account for the last 8 years = 1.8M

So effective cost of your house to date 8M baht.

While your neighbors have paid 3.8M

Your figures don't look so good now!

You are assuming a house of Bt6.2m eight years ago is still only worth Bt6.2m today...

[theguyfromanotherforum]

This is really quite simple. Thai wife knows the ropes and can deal with issues that arise. I don't understand this talk to the lawyers attitude. Lawyers don't protect your interests.

[peergin]

I know a sweet Thai lady in her fifties who owns a plot of land right next to her own house/garden. Her idea is to let someone build a house on it at his expense. He will get a free hand as to design, size, etc. I don't know the exact details of what she has in mind but she intends to make it an attractive deal for both parties. The land is located a little bit North of Chiangmai (which is the healthy side of Chiangmai). Anyone who is interested can send me a Personal Message here on Thai Visa.

Edited November 15, 2015 by peergin

[catman20]

Thanks for all inputs. Very mixed opinions. Will speak to a lawyer and see what my options are. Cheers

mind field don't trust a lawyer

[LivinLOS]

If you want lose money go ahead , and buy, advice here is pretty simple , dont forget visa rules change all the time.

The visa "rules" have been changing all the time, for the past 50-years.Yet, there remains a boatload of western expats whom have remained in The Kingdom for 30+ years.

They have bought homes, wives, children, even grandchildren, without having endured any significant Thai Immigration Law changes, that adversely affected their particular chosen lifestyles.

Yes but they are not a married western couple.. If not over 50 thats a segement who really are not well catered to any more and the old easy ways are being pushed out.

Renting is so cheap.. I have paid 2 or 3% of the houses asking price on rents in 4 or 5 homes.. Some of which have fallen down and been total loss to the owner (one a 35 million baht villa.. destroyed in a landslide.. insurance wont pay the farang)..

I will probably build.. entirely in my wifes name.. on a superb parcel I already bought her.. as a gift to her in case anything happens to me.. but it wont be an economic choice, it will be to get the precise house I want.. I think it will be a horrible financial decision but theres more to it than just money.

[KittenKong]

I'm with JS on this, a simple calculation,

Lost interest on 6.2M in a Thai savings account for the last 8 years = 1.8M

So effective cost of your house to date 8M baht.

While your neighbors have paid 3.8M

Your figures don't look so good now!

You are assuming a house of Bt6.2m eight years ago is still only worth Bt6.2m today...

Good point. Many such houses could be worth a lot less today than they were when they were bought.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but anyone who had taken their money 7 years ago and bought some S&P500 trackers would have doubled their investment since, and would have had some dividends every few months too. This would have covered any possible rent that they might have paid over that time. And today they would own an investment that has a definite value that can be realised in seconds, whereas a Thai house has no definite value and could take years to sell.

And this doesnt even take account of the purchase taxes on property and agent's fees and company accounts fees for those who buy via the company route.

Edited November 15, 2015 by KittenKong

[ozyjon]

Western couple buying a house in Thailand

And you should .....