US expats - pay your taxes or lose your passport

[NoshowJones]

Blood sucking US taxman, no other country taxes their citizens when they are not resident in their country!

Newsflash

They all do and you pay more in taxes abroad and get no benefits vs being in your home country with benefits. In my country it is a loss of benefits mostly medical and 15% more in taxes they want their money upfront. Being a retiree does not give you any golden opportunities only the shaft of the gold mine up your wazoo. You worked all your life and paid taxes and now that you want to leave the country and they help you leave with a kick in your financial posterior. Wake up folks government is not on your side!!!! they are only on the side of the banksters, super rich and fellow politicians. Your only chafe blowing in the wind used up and spent.

and that is why it is your duty to pay as less tax as you can, the more you pay, the more your giving your country (if it's the UK) for MPs "expenses", 11% wage increases, foreign aid

and not paying OAPs annual increases etc, etc.

[new2here]

I personally support this. It's one thing to say that the taxes are not right, disagree with how the money is spent or even claim graft/corruption, but in the end you have to pay it.

If you don't like it, there's processes for objection; be that legislative or even judicial- but simple tax avoidance to me isn't an option, therefore I support the withholding issuance of a US passport to those in arrears.

Yes, you do have the right to free movement if you will, but there is no "right" to a passport unless you meet the issuance standards.

[Travelman868]

Blood sucking US taxman, no other country taxes their citizens when they are not resident in their country!

That is not stictly correct. The UK government take taxes on income earned in the UK. AND the average UK worker pays more tax than Amazon and Starbucks.

[impulse]

Would not surprise me in the slightest if the jolly old taxman at HMRC were, sooner rather than later, to press for similar measures to be introduced for defaulting UK taxpayers!

If I had to pay every penny the taxman wanted, I would never be able to have come to Thailand once,

never mind the few times before I came for good.

Reminds me of the proposed simplified 2 line tax form:

Line 1: How much did you make?

Line 2: Send it in.

[DennisF]

I think US democracy should be forced on every country, by military force if needed, as it is the most open and non corrupt system there is...

Not only that they should be the judge and jury of how other countries conduct themselves...

OH.... wait a minute....

(sarcasm)

[NoshowJones]

Would not surprise me in the slightest if the jolly old taxman at HMRC were, sooner rather than later, to press for similar measures to be introduced for defaulting UK taxpayers!

If I had to pay every penny the taxman wanted, I would never be able to have come to Thailand once,

never mind the few times before I came for good.

Reminds me of the proposed simplified 2 line tax form:

Line 1: How much did you make?

Line 2: Send it in.

I don't know anything about it.

[miamiman]

US citizens not retired living in Thailand with a family, and working as a Teacher for the last 15 years or so, earning a good salary paid by a Thai school is required to file and pay annual US taxes?

[slipperylobster]

....and to add insult to injury,

Call this number, and turn in a buddy. You will receive a "reward".

1-800-829-0433

http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/02/pf/taxes/rat_out_tax_cheat/index.htm

"If you knew coworkers, former bosses or exes who cheated on their taxes, would you turn them in? The Internal Revenue Service can make it worth your while."

*** I pay mine....make sure you pay yours *** lol

[BlindMagician]

Here's what Simon Black has to say:

Sometimes you just have to stand in awe at the level of corruption and incompetence in government.

Case in point, the new highway bill in the Land of the Free. And, trust me, youll love this.

The latest version of the highway bill is called the Developing a Reliable and Innovative Vision for the Economy Act.

And yes, they abbreviate it as the DRIVE Act.

I cannot even begin to imagine how large the team of monkeys is that works on these silly acronyms. And as is typical for legislation, the more high sounding the name of the law, the more destructive its consequences.

On the surface, the DRIVE Act aims to fund the federal transportation network and investments in highway infrastructure for the next several years, as well as recapitalize the Highway Trust Fund.

Federal trust funds are supposed to responsibly and conservatively manage money that has been set aside for a specific purpose to benefit taxpayers.

There are so many of these trust funds. There are the big ones like Social Securitys Old Age Survivors Insurance and Disability Insurance (which is literally days away from running out of money).

And there are many more youve probably never heard about, like the Black Lung trust fund and the Leaking Underground Storage Tank trust fund.

Most of these funds are insolvent, or at least pitifully undercapitalized, clearly proving the government to be one of the worst asset managers in history.

The Highway Trust Fund is no exception: it has completely run out of money, and at this point literally has a ZERO account balance. The DRIVE Act intends to fix that.

And even though it has nothing to do with funding highways, the bill also aims to re-authorize the Export-Import Bank.

The Ex-Im Bank was created during the Great Depression and is designed to facilitate trade. Thats code for boost the profits of Boeing and General Electric.

Even the governments own Congressional Research Service found that more than 60% of Ex-Im Banks loan guarantees, by dollar value, supported the sale of Boeing airplanes in foreign countries.

Ex-Im is essentially a gift on a golden platter from the taxpayers of the United States to a handful of mega-companies.

The Banks charter lapsed earlier this year. But rather than let it die, theyre jumpstarting Ex-Im with even more taxpayer money.

Clearly the government needs cash. They need to fund Ex-Im, the Highway Trust Fund, and all the improvements for Americas dilapidated infrastructure.

And their solutions to address this cash crunch are nothing short of remarkable.

For example, they plan to steal $300 million from the Leaking Underground Storage Tank trust fund (LUST yes, thats really what they call it), and transfer that money to the Highway Fund.

The only problem is that LUST is insolvent. So theyre stealing from one insolvent trust to fund another insolvent trust. Its genius!

One of my favorite sections in the bill is a directive to sell off 100+ million barrels of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve.

Only a politician could think to sell off oil supplies at a time when oil price is at multi-year lows.

(It also really gives you a sense of how broke the government really is that theyre driven raise cash by selling off strategic assets.)

Another gem buried in the 864 pages of the bill is a provision that allows the government to revoke your passport if they believe that you owe more than $50,000 in federal tax.

There will be no judicial review, and no due process. You dont get to go in front of a judge first to have a fair and impartial hearing over whether or not the governments tax allegations are accurate.

The language in the law is very clear: they can simply revoke your passport if you owe them money in their sole discretion.

Once the law is passed, this would go into effect on January 1, 2016, and they claim it will generate $40 million per year in tax revenue.

There was one more provision that proposed raising revenue from the biggest banks in America by reducing the dividend they receive from the Federal Reserve.

Curiously, though, this specific provision was defeated yesterday after a heated committee meeting in Congress.

So while the banks profits are off-limits, and the government will spend billions of taxpayer dollars to boost profits at Boeing, American citizens are threatened with having their passports revoked in order to raise money.

It couldnt be any more obvious how much the system is stacked against the little guy.

They treat you like a dairy cow that exists only to be milked dry like a medieval serf tied to the land and forced to serve his overlords.

Its revolting. But it doesnt have to be this way.

You can take sensible, rational steps to divorce yourself from this madness, or at least have a Plan B to protect yourself from it.

If the government is threatening to take away your passport, for example, there are countless ways you can obtain another one from a country that will roll out the red carpet for you.

If youre sick and tired of having your income confiscated so that you can bail out big companies, there are completely legal steps you can take to reduce what you owe.

Its hard to imagine youll be worse off being more free and having more control over your life and finances.

Exec summary please.

[chilli42]

I think quite a few would be happy to lose their passport to stop paying taxes. Even give up citizenship is made difficult by the US govt.

I cannot understand people who want to be US citizens, its like the Hotel California.

I gave mine up 11 years ago for the obvious reasons. It was easy since I had two other citizenships. It's not so easy if you only have US, getting a second is no slam dunk - at least from a respectable country.

[DennisF]

US citizen not retired with a family here in Thailand and working for the last 15 years as a teacher is required to file and pay US income tax?

Yep... even if you ask the same question 3 times on the same thread, there is only 1 answer.

Sorry.

[bangon04]

Blood sucking US taxman, no other country taxes their citizens when they are not resident in their country!

I do not disagree with paying income tax, it's the amount. If you think your country is unfair with the

tax they want from you then don't declare it all.

"Once the law is passed, this would go into effect on January 1, 2016, and they claim it will generate $40 million per year in tax revenue. "

and how many smart bombs is that, exactly? Enough for one day / two days bombing the desert?

[slipperylobster]

US citizen not retired with a family here in Thailand and working for the last 15 years as a teacher is required to file and pay US income tax?

Yep... even if you ask the same question 3 times on the same thread, there is only 1 answer.

Sorry.

and remember to protect your name and never give out your ssn. Thats all we need to turn you in and collect a nice reward.

[willr]

Obama wants more war dollars.the cia.spent it all on Isis

[rosst]

Blood sucking US taxman, no other country taxes their citizens when they are not resident in their country!

Oh man, how wrong you are! I'm Dutch, live in Thailand for almost 10 years and still have to pay taxes.

So check things out before you post.

Yes, I am an Aussie, 69 years, earning rent of $26,000 per annum but because the wife works and earns, I pay tax, <deleted> that.

[mcfish]

Blood sucking US taxman, no other country taxes their citizens when they are not resident in their country!

I do not disagree with paying income tax, it's the amount. If you think your country is unfair with the

tax they want from you then don't declare it all.

"Once the law is passed, this would go into effect on January 1, 2016, and they claim it will generate $40 million per year in tax revenue. "

and how many smart bombs is that, exactly? Enough for one day / two days bombing the desert?

You have a link? I was thinking at least 10 x that

[slipperylobster]

Obama wants more war dollars.the cia.spent it all on Isis

You mean all those drug dollars made from dropping bombs full of opium on Laos are gone?

[DennisF]

I love it.

When there is a thread dedicated exclusively to Americans and money it gets more posts than an Issarn girl asking for vet fees for the buffalo.

Cash fixated society, doubtless.

[fireplay]

How can one figure out 6 years of back taxes or what was reported? And what is one to do about 6 years of under the table wages abroad? If someone wants to get straight and protect their passport in this type of situation? Thats 12 years...

[slipperylobster]

How can one figure out 6 years of back taxes or what was reported? And what is one to do about 6 years of under the table wages abroad? If someone wants to get straight and protect their passport in this type of situation? Thats 12 years...

You simply call IRS and ask.

No matter what your owe, you can fill out a letter of indebtedness, and offer small monthly payments. I did this years ago. They have no choice but to approve it. Basically, you fill out the forms and wait for them to figure out what you owe. I would go ahead and send the "indebtedness waiver, listing your income and expenses". I paid about 50 usd a month.

IIt's not like they will come to Thailand and sell your house and car.

Edited November 21, 2015 by slipperylobster

[ksamuiguy]

U.S. Citizen Exempt form taxes on earnings from outside the U.S. up to 96,000.00 U.S.D.

But must meet the residency requirements, just look up IRS form 2555, explains it.

You must also be outside the U.S. for at

least 330 days in your tax year, this is where they get most people, exceed the time and you are no longer exempt.

[gk10002000]

Any wise US national should be actively seeking an alternative passport and moving any assets out of jurisdiction, prior to applying to revoke US nationality (which is getting harder to do).

Two of my best friends, retired engineering contracts moved to Canada and got all their residency stuff done.

[gk10002000]

U.S. Citizen Exempt form taxes on earnings from outside the U.S. up to 96,000.00 U.S.D.

But must meet the residency requirements, just look up IRS form 2555, explains it.

You must also be outside the U.S. for at

least 330 days in your tax year, this is where they get most people, exceed the time and you are no longer exempt.

To be more specific, this only applies to "Earned Income". If one has investments, stock dividends, bond interest, most types of pensions, Social Security etc. the IRS goes for you no matter whether you still live in the USA or not.

[gk10002000]

While the law says "50,000" you can bet there will be "mistakes" and abuse and the Government will grab passports saying "gee, our database shows we could". Sorry for the mistake. Now go home since your passport is now invalid.

[gk10002000]

Typical overreaching government scheme. It won't pass constitutional muster without being amended. In order to meet basic due process requirements, there has to be a hearing on whether money is owed to the IRS. Typically, the IRS just files a tax lien with no due process hearing. That's not going to be sufficient to revoke a passport, over which the owner has a property right (5th amendment). Contrary to popular belief, the government does not own your passport. Just like a driver's license, it can't be revoked without the right of a hearing.

Sorry, but I think having a passport is a Privilege and not a right. It is not considered one's personal property. I don't think any constitutional challenge will be forthcoming. In addition, the IRS searches and seizes stuff all the time and with a huge amount of leeway and rarely gets over-ruled by other courts.

[DennisF]

Typical overreaching government scheme. It won't pass constitutional muster without being amended. In order to meet basic due process requirements, there has to be a hearing on whether money is owed to the IRS. Typically, the IRS just files a tax lien with no due process hearing. That's not going to be sufficient to revoke a passport, over which the owner has a property right (5th amendment). Contrary to popular belief, the government does not own your passport. Just like a driver's license, it can't be revoked without the right of a hearing.

Sorry, but I think having a passport is a Privilege and not a right. It is not considered one's personal property. I don't think any constitutional challenge will be forthcoming. In addition, the IRS searches and seizes stuff all the time and with a huge amount of leeway and rarely gets over-ruled by other courts.

Interesting that you think freedom of movement is not a right.

Maybe we should all be grateful for the place we are born in and say nothing about irregularities and just

be grateful we have the 'altruistic' political system imposed upon us.

Do not travel, you may discover your paradise is hell?? Is that what you are advocating??

Strange post.

[Andrew65]

Typical overreaching government scheme. It won't pass constitutional muster without being amended. In order to meet basic due process requirements, there has to be a hearing on whether money is owed to the IRS. Typically, the IRS just files a tax lien with no due process hearing. That's not going to be sufficient to revoke a passport, over which the owner has a property right (5th amendment). Contrary to popular belief, the government does not own your passport. Just like a driver's license, it can't be revoked without the right of a hearing.

Sorry, but I think having a passport is a Privilege and not a right. It is not considered one's personal property. I don't think any constitutional challenge will be forthcoming. In addition, the IRS searches and seizes stuff all the time and with a huge amount of leeway and rarely gets over-ruled by other courts.

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that in the UK, one's passport ultimately remains the property of HM's Government.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Andrew65

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

U.S. Citizen Exempt form taxes on earnings from outside the U.S. up to 96,000.00 U.S.D.

But must meet the residency requirements, just look up IRS form 2555, explains it.

You must also be outside the U.S. for at

least 330 days in your tax year, this is where they get most people, exceed the time and you are no longer exempt.

To be more specific, this only applies to "Earned Income". If one has investments, stock dividends, bond interest, most types of pensions, Social Security etc. the IRS goes for you no matter whether you still live in the USA or not.

Also, AFAIK, that's an exemption of tax obligation -- not an exemption from being required to still file a U.S. tax return each year.

You may not end up owing the IRS much in the way of taxes on that Thai-earned income. But you still have to file a tax return and report it -- if you want to stay legal under U.S. tax law.

[whatproblem]

Blood sucking US taxman, no other country taxes their citizens when they are not resident in their country!

The U.K. Government do ,they don't really tax the big companies but they are basstards after the little people

[DennisF]

Typical overreaching government scheme. It won't pass constitutional muster without being amended. In order to meet basic due process requirements, there has to be a hearing on whether money is owed to the IRS. Typically, the IRS just files a tax lien with no due process hearing. That's not going to be sufficient to revoke a passport, over which the owner has a property right (5th amendment). Contrary to popular belief, the government does not own your passport. Just like a driver's license, it can't be revoked without the right of a hearing.

Sorry, but I think having a passport is a Privilege and not a right. It is not considered one's personal property. I don't think any constitutional challenge will be forthcoming. In addition, the IRS searches and seizes stuff all the time and with a huge amount of leeway and rarely gets over-ruled by other courts.

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that in the UK, one's passport ultimately remains the property of HM's Government.

You are correct but, the government cannot refuse a passport or travel without good reason, the document remains their property.